MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: brewcity77 on November 18, 2013, 12:48:28 PM
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...with this team, myself included. I also think many on this board is focusing on the wrong issues. Here are the ones I have after the first few games. To be fair, I still think it's too early to really judge this team, but I'm sure some will just see that as Chicos-speak (even though he seems ready to judge the guards, too).
1) Jamil Wilson -- He has not been nearly assertive enough. In the first two games, he seemed to coast his way to double-digit points and decent statlines. My hope is that the injury he sustained early in the tOSU game was slowing him down and limited his effectiveness, but the reality is that he has yet to show us over the course of a season that he can be a leader and go-to guy. From a talent perspective, he seems to be the guy that has to lead now that Blue is gone. He hasn't done that yet. If he doesn't start soon, we will likely struggle in our other non-con tests.
2) Distance Shooting -- This plagued us last year and continues. The lack of outside shooting allowed tOSU to pack it in and limit the effectiveness of our big men down low. Even if we hit 25% of those shots, the defense would have to be honest, which would have allowed passes to the interior that would have given our bigs the chance to get Williams and McDonald to foul out, which would have completely changed their ability to defend. Wilson and Mayo have hit these shots in the past and need to do so again. We probably need another shooter to emerge, since Jake hasn't proved his capability. My hope is that either Juan or Steve will become more assertive in that regard or JJJ will start playing enough defense to warrant inclusion on the floor.
3) Free Throws -- If we aren't going to hit from deep, we need to hit the freebies. I'm not going to suggest practicing free throws, but for all the flack Derrick took, he scored on a drive and got to the line for 4 free throws against Ohio State. Converting those is where he really has to improve. I accept that Otule will hit around 50%, but as a team this needs to get up around 70%.
4) Limit the Non-Scorers -- We have a few guys, Derrick, Jake, Chris, and Steve most notably, that don't seem very good at putting the ball in the hoop. We can afford to have two of them on the floor together, but I'm not sure we can have 3-4 on the floor together in long stretches. If they start to set the tone on defense, I get that, but I'd like to see Juan, Jamil, Todd, and Davante slotted in to make sure that we at least have a 2-3 guys at all times that aren't inept at putting the ball in the basket.
5) More Steve Taylor -- I know, I just said to limit his time. And I'm not sure he should start if you want to limit non-scorers. But the guy is pure energy. On the glass, he gets to everything. I'd love to see him getting 20+ mpg and feel of the four guys that don't score much, he should probably be second in minutes to only Derrick.
6) Don't Fear the Freshmen -- Dawson should not take DeWil's job, but as a freshman, Wilson only had 2 DNPs because even Junior needed to rest some time. I would like to see Dawson reliably get 5-8 minutes per game just to lessen the pressure on Wilson to be out there every minute. Jajuan has to earn time with defense, but if you have him out there with DeWil, Chris, Jamil, and Todd or Juan, that gives you 4 guys that know the defensive system and will help mask JJJ's inadequacies while also helping to ensure you don't have 3-4 non-scorers on the court at the same time.
I just wanted to say this to disclaim the false notion that I think it's all pie in the sky. There are issues to solve. I just don't think the issues that need to be solved are the same ones most of the board is freaking out over.
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Stev has scored more points than Juan this year. Not quite sure I understand your logic with Juan being a scorer and Steve not
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I'd be interested to see what a lineup of Derrick, Jamil, Juan, Steve, and Otule would do.
I agree with Brew, getting Jamil going is big. His struggles exacerbate the guard issues. Even though the 2/3 spots are pretty interchangeable, I'd like to see him play the 2 and see if it opens anything up for him. Never know what can get him going.
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Stev has scored more points than Juan this year. Not quite sure I understand your logic with Juan being a scorer and Steve not
I am not counting Grambling. Juan has shown more ability over his career to hit open threes and chip in points against real competition than Steve has so far.
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Honestly, it may be time that we all (I include myself in this) just accept Jamil for what he is and get it out of our heads that he's going to be the next Hayward/Butler/Crowder. He's a very solid college player. He's going to be a 10-5 guy this season who has the occasional big game and the occasional no-show. Teams can win a lot of game with contributors like that.
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I am not counting Grambling. Juan has shown more ability over his career to hit open threes and chip in points against real competition than Steve has so far.
So Juan with 2 points and Steve with 0... Still not exactly putting Juan in the scoring category so far. Let's assume against tournament teams are real competition:
Juan 12-13: 5 against But, 0 FL, 0 WI, 1 UConn, 1 GTown, 8 Pitt, 0 Cinci, 0 Ville, 3 GTown, 0 Pitt, 2 Nova, 1 Cuse, 3 ND, 2 ND, 0 Dav, 0 But, 0 Miami, 0 Cuse. 26pts
Juan 11-12: DNP Nor, DNP Nor, 2 WI, 2 Vand, DNP GTown, 0 Cuse, 2 SJU, DNP Pitt, DNP Ville, DNP USF, 0 ND, 2 Cin, 0 UConn, 0 WVU, 0 Cin, 2 GTown, 0 Ville, 0 BYU, 0 Murray St. 10pts
Steve 12-13: 2 against But, 4 FL, 0 WI, 9 UConn, 0 GTown, 0 Pitt, 4 Cinci, 4 Ville, 2 GTown, 2 Pitt, 4 Nova, 4 Cuse, 3 ND, 2 ND, 0 Dav, 0 But, 0 Miami, 0 Cuse. 40pts.
Juan in 2 years against real competition has less points than Steve in one year. Perhaps I don't understand your definition of being a scorer but I'd take Steve. Even if you add Southern and OSU as perspective tournamnet teams then Juan only gets 2 more points and Steve in 1 season still has more.
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Looks like I too am guilty of the eye test problem. Juan has hit some nice threes, but not enough to justify his inclusion in that category. Which probably means we need one of those two to actually step into that role this year. Don't care much who, but I still feel having 4/5 on the floor that aren't significant scoring threats is a problem.
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1) Jamil Wilson -- He has not been nearly assertive enough. In the first two games, he seemed to coast his way to double-digit points and decent statlines. My hope is that the injury he sustained early in the tOSU game was slowing him down and limited his effectiveness, but the reality is that he has yet to show us over the course of a season that he can be a leader and go-to guy. From a talent perspective, he seems to be the guy that has to lead now that Blue is gone. He hasn't done that yet. If he doesn't start soon, we will likely struggle in our other non-con tests.
Every year I think that MU doesn't have a Senior that wants to take on the leadership role (and last year I tagged Vander into that role). But Cadougan may have been that guy.
11-12 - Jae/JDO. I wasn't certain that either would take on the role of leader on the court. I think they both did.
10-11 - JFB. I don't think anyone called him JFB at the beginning of the season. But he earned it over the course of the year.
09-10 - Lazar. Stepped up after the departure of the 3 Amigos in a way I didn't expect.
08-09 - 3 Amigos. I think they were all expected to take leadership roles and did.
So in 4 of the last 5 years I had doubts about who would become the "leader" of the team. I hope that Jamil makes that jump. But if history serves, he will (or maybe Davante or Chris).
Give him time.
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Every year I think that MU doesn't have a Senior that wants to take on the leadership role (and last year I tagged Vander into that role). But Cadougan may have been that guy.
11-12 - Jae/JDO. I wasn't certain that either would take on the role of leader on the court. I think they both did.
10-11 - JFB. I don't think anyone called him JFB at the beginning of the season. But he earned it over the course of the year.
09-10 - Lazar. Stepped up after the departure of the 3 Amigos in a way I didn't expect.
08-09 - 3 Amigos. I think they were all expected to take leadership roles and did.
So in 4 of the last 5 years I had doubts about who would become the "leader" of the team. I hope that Jamil makes that jump. But if history serves, he will (or maybe Davante or Chris).
Give him time.
Well we can rule Chris out as the "leader."
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Like the good, cleansing, real man drunk after the Ohio State game, Scoopsters need the New Hampshire game to get here ASAP to wipe away their angst.
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Like the good, cleansing, real man drunk after the Ohio State game, Scoopsters need the New Hampshire game to get here ASAP to wipe away their angst.
I think a win at Arizona State would do far more good. UNH is just beating up on one more weak-sister school.
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Every year I think that MU doesn't have a Senior that wants to take on the leadership role (and last year I tagged Vander into that role). But Cadougan may have been that guy.
11-12 - Jae/JDO. I wasn't certain that either would take on the role of leader on the court. I think they both did.
10-11 - JFB. I don't think anyone called him JFB at the beginning of the season. But he earned it over the course of the year.
09-10 - Lazar. Stepped up after the departure of the 3 Amigos in a way I didn't expect.
08-09 - 3 Amigos. I think they were all expected to take leadership roles and did.
So in 4 of the last 5 years I had doubts about who would become the "leader" of the team. I hope that Jamil makes that jump. But if history serves, he will (or maybe Davante or Chris).
Give him time.
You really didn't see DJO or Crowder stepping up? I mean I had my doubts the 09-10 season (outside of Zar) and the 10-11 season and the 12-13 season but I didn't know anybody who doubted the 11-12 season.
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Like the good, cleansing, real man drunk after the Ohio State game, Scoopsters need the New Hampshire game to get here ASAP to wipe away their angst.
Perhaps, but that New Hampshire team just lost at home to NJIT. There will be many grains of salt taken with what we see on Thursday.
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You really didn't see DJO or Crowder stepping up? I mean I had my doubts the 09-10 season (outside of Zar) and the 10-11 season and the 12-13 season but I didn't know anybody who doubted the 11-12 season.
Both had been quiet their Junior years - productive but quiet. Not the emotional leaders that were going to put the team on their shoulders and get going. One or both of them needed to, but I wasn't sure which, if either, would.
It's a yearly fear I have and one that gets dispelled as the season goes on.
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Both had been quiet their Junior years - productive but quiet. Not the emotional leaders that were going to put the team on their shoulders and get going. One or both of them needed to, but I wasn't sure which, if either, would.
It's a yearly fear I have and one that gets dispelled as the season goes on.
I don't know...Jae was pretty demonstrative as a junior. His style of play and outgoing on-court nature made him look like an obvious leader to me.
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You really didn't see DJO or Crowder stepping up? I mean I had my doubts the 09-10 season (outside of Zar) and the 10-11 season and the 12-13 season but I didn't know anybody who doubted the 11-12 season.
The "who will fill the leadership void" is a popular meme every year on Scoop - 2011-12 was no different here.
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I think a win at Arizona State would do far more good. UNH is just beating up on one more weak-sister school.
Well, let's just say then an "umbrella drink drunk" is better than a four day hangover?
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I find it comical that Point Guard play doesn't even make this list...
Also, with Jamil and the whole "assertive" thing - that narrative is getting old. People need to realize that Jamil is athletic, but he doesn't play with great body lean - can't get low to the floor - and is not good at taking people off the dribble as a result of that. How a player appears to "assert" himself more is being aggressive to the basket off the bounce. Jamil has tried that a number of times against OSU, and generally the results aren't good. He's was a whisker away from about 4 traveling calls against OSU trying to be quick explosive off the first step..
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4) Limit the Non-Scorers -- We have a few guys, Derrick, Jake, Chris, and Steve most notably, that don't seem very good at putting the ball in the hoop. We can afford to have two of them on the floor together, but I'm not sure we can have 3-4 on the floor together in long stretches. If they start to set the tone on defense, I get that, but I'd like to see Juan, Jamil, Todd, and Davante slotted in to make sure that we at least have a 2-3 guys at all times that aren't inept at putting the ball in the basket.
The only true non-scorer in this group is Derrick. The other players listed will have double digit scoring games. We need at least one of them to step up every game to help the other scorers.
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The only true non-scorer in this group is Derrick. The other players listed will have double digit scoring games. We need at least one of them to step up every game to help the other scorers.
With you on Otule and Taylor. Don't see Thomas getting double figures more than maybe once or twice against top competition. Not a lot of guys on this roster who have demonstrated the ability to fill it up at this level.
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The only true non-scorer in this group is Derrick. The other players listed will have double digit scoring games. We need at least one of them to step up every game to help the other scorers.
None of them are guys I see as go-to scorers. Their presence on the court isn't going to be the focal point of a defense, as much as Thad Matta's comments and early defensive schemes with Jake indicated otherwise. Jamil, Mayo, and Davante are all guys who get special attention when the opposing coach talks about defensive plans to deal with Marquette.
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Point Guard Play: Derek Wilson had 2 turnovers in 38 minutes against Aaron Craft. At the end of the year, how many point guards will be able to say that. I know about all of the bad. I saw the game, too.
Shooting: MU isn't shooting free throws that well either. Everybody needs to step up. Jamil, Juan, STjr, you three all have made shots in the past. Look for them now. BTW, who takes the last shot? Besides Todd, who wants to take every shot.
Leadership: Can't have seniors playing tentative with two fouls in the second half. Jamil, Davante, Chris, I am looking at you.
Defense: Remember when people said Buzz couldn't coach defense. The rotations and help in the first half were sublime. The whole team looked afraid of picking up their third foul in the second half. Take that first half and build on it.
Davante: Four years, man. Play defense. Box out. Expect the double team. Quit pouting.
Chris (and Davante): Work for post position every time. Even when it seems you aren't getting the ball.
Buzz: Accept that this team isn't like the ones you have had the last 5 years. You have always adapted well to what you had. Well, this year you have freshman and need them to contribute. Open your mind. Accept some freshmen mistakes. If you don't, next year WILL be painful. Start Todd.
Freshmen: The door is slightly ajar. Kick it in. Seize the opportunity. Don't give Buzz a choice.
Jamil: To quote Rafiki....."It is time". We get that you are a great teammate and a great guy. Go destroy somebody. Then do it again. Every game, every possession. Your team needs you.
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Point Guard Play: Derek Wilson had 2 turnovers in 38 minutes against Aaron Craft. At the end of the year, how many point guards will be able to say that. I know about all of the bad. I saw the game, too.
Shooting: MU isn't shooting free throws that well either. Everybody needs to step up. Jamil, Juan, STjr, you three all have made shots in the past. Look for them now. BTW, who takes the last shot? Besides Todd, who wants to take every shot.
Leadership: Can't have seniors playing tentative with two fouls in the second half. Jamil, Davante, Chris, I am looking at you.
Defense: Remember when people said Buzz couldn't coach defense. The rotations and help in the first half were sublime. The whole team looked afraid of picking up their third foul in the second half. Take that first half and build on it.
Davante: Four years, man. Play defense. Box out. Expect the double team. Quit pouting.
Chris (and Davante): Work for post position every time. Even when it seems you aren't getting the ball.
Buzz: Accept that this team isn't like the ones you have had the last 5 years. You have always adapted well to what you had. Well, this year you have freshman and need them to contribute. Open your mind. Accept some freshmen mistakes. If you don't, next year WILL be painful. Start Todd.
Freshmen: The door is slightly ajar. Kick it in. Seize the opportunity. Don't give Buzz a choice.
Jamil: To quote Rafiki....."It is time". We get that you are a great teammate and a great guy. Go destroy somebody. Then do it again. Every game, every possession. Your team needs you.
Awesome post, Tower.
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Jamil - he isn't going to a huge usage guy. Never was, never will be. He can still be *a* leader for this team and must push himself to take on just a bit more. Usage of 24-25% for him would be nice to see...
Free Throws - we're shooting 63%. Who cares? It's fine and a non-issue. Maybe around #142 on the list of things to think/worry about.
Is Juan ready? Close. He and are probably our two best defensive rebounders.
Wouldn't mind, for now: Derrick, Toddler, Jamil, Steve, Chris with Big Sheesh & Juan in early. Would also like to see my brother Deonte work through his newness. Such a bull. My brother Deonte is a guy who can get this team wins in March if he gets some decent PT during the early and mid parts of the season. And he's a guy who will take the last shot - whether it's a triple or attacking the rim.
I don't mean this the wrong way, but I do not understand Jake's PT and him starting. You want to use him as a 3-point specialist off the bench? Cool. But I don't get his current role.
Wouldn't mind seeing some crazy lineups if Sheesh & Chris both have to sit..... like Steve, Juan and Jamil up front... with Toddler and JJJ.
New Hampshire is terrible but they shoot threes. Hope very few go in.
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(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma7bjwxkJC1qz53j7.gif)
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Jamil - he isn't going to a huge usage guy. Never was, never will be. He can still be *a* leader for this team and must push himself to take on just a bit more. Usage of 24-25% for him would be nice to see...
Free Throws - we're shooting 63%. Who cares? It's fine and a non-issue. Maybe around #142 on the list of things to think/worry about.
Is Juan ready? Close. He and are probably our two best defensive rebounders.
Wouldn't mind, for now: Derrick, Toddler, Jamil, Steve, Chris with Big Sheesh & Juan in early. Would also like to see my brother Deonte work through his newness. Such a bull. My brother Deonte is a guy who can get this team wins in March if he gets some decent PT during the early and mid parts of the season. And he's a guy who will take the last shot - whether it's a triple or attacking the rim.
I don't mean this the wrong way, but I do not understand Jake's PT and him starting. You want to use him as a 3-point specialist off the bench? Cool. But I don't get his current role.
Wouldn't mind seeing some crazy lineups if Sheesh & Chris both have to sit..... like Steve, Juan and Jamil up front... with Toddler and JJJ.
New Hampshire is terrible but they shoot threes. Hope very few go in.
Just curious, how do we use Jake as a 3-point specialist if he can't make them? He should be the second to last guard to play.
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Point Guard Play: Derek Wilson had 2 turnovers in 38 minutes against Aaron Craft. At the end of the year, how many point guards will be able to say that. I know about all of the bad. I saw the game, too.
Craft rarely guarded DWil. He was mostly guarding Thomas or Mayo. OSU did not waste their best defender on a player who doesn't need to be defended.
Otherwise, spot on.
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Craft rarely guarded DWil. He was mostly guarding Thomas or Mayo. OSU did not waste their best defender on a player who doesn't need to be defended.
Spot on....this is yet another reason why Derrick's ineptitude offensively creates challenges for the team offensively.
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You really didn't see DJO or Crowder stepping up? I mean I had my doubts the 09-10 season (outside of Zar) and the 10-11 season and the 12-13 season but I didn't know anybody who doubted the 11-12 season.
Crowder certainly stepped up, enough to become the Big East Player of the Year (and one of my favorite basketball players, with both talent and heart). DJO had a very good year, but was a little more inconsistent and had some wild streaks at times.
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Just curious, how do we use Jake as a 3-point specialist if he can't make them? He should be the second to last guard to play.
My man is feeling comfortable out there right now... good for us
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Just curious, how do we use Jake as a 3-point specialist if he can't make them? He should be the second to last guard to play.
My man is feeling comfortable out there right now (again)... good for us
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So Juan with 2 points and Steve with 0... Still not exactly putting Juan in the scoring category so far. Let's assume against tournament teams are real competition:
Juan 12-13: 5 against But, 0 FL, 0 WI, 1 UConn, 1 GTown, 8 Pitt, 0 Cinci, 0 Ville, 3 GTown, 0 Pitt, 2 Nova, 1 Cuse, 3 ND, 2 ND, 0 Dav, 0 But, 0 Miami, 0 Cuse. 26pts
Juan 11-12: DNP Nor, DNP Nor, 2 WI, 2 Vand, DNP GTown, 0 Cuse, 2 SJU, DNP Pitt, DNP Ville, DNP USF, 0 ND, 2 Cin, 0 UConn, 0 WVU, 0 Cin, 2 GTown, 0 Ville, 0 BYU, 0 Murray St. 10pts
Steve 12-13: 2 against But, 4 FL, 0 WI, 9 UConn, 0 GTown, 0 Pitt, 4 Cinci, 4 Ville, 2 GTown, 2 Pitt, 4 Nova, 4 Cuse, 3 ND, 2 ND, 0 Dav, 0 But, 0 Miami, 0 Cuse. 40pts.
Juan in 2 years against real competition has less points than Steve in one year. Perhaps I don't understand your definition of being a scorer but I'd take Steve. Even if you add Southern and OSU as perspective tournamnet teams then Juan only gets 2 more points and Steve in 1 season still has more.
Juan allowed his guy to score the first 5 points in the 2nd half, so he went to the pines. Problem is, mayo came in for him and allowed his guy to score the next 5 points. The guys Mayo guarded in the 2nd half scored 15 in the half. Atrocious.
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Juan allowed his guy to score the first 5 points in the 2nd half, so he went to the pines. Problem is, mayo came in for him and allowed his guy to score the next 5 points. The guys Mayo guarded in the 2nd half scored 15 in the half. Atrocious.
Just so you're aware, you replied to a post from Nov 18, 2013.
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Just so you're aware, you replied to a post from Nov 18, 2013.
thanks--did not look at date.