1. We don't have a true go-to guy for scoring this year
2. The point guard battle was completed lop-sided. Craft is a heady player with tons of experience. Wilson played pretty much the whole game and doesn't facilitate or pose any threat on offense.
3. Shooting was dismal. Forced a ton of shots and missed almost every open look.
4. Played tough D most of the game, esp in the first half.
5. Would have liked to see Dawson a bit. He's shown he can get the ball in the right spot at times.
6. Todd was trying to do way too much and some of the other guys too little on offense (namely STJ)
7. Would have liked to see Johnson and/or Burton get more of Jake's minutes. Freshmen or not, they could shake things up and maybe make a few plays. Jake was pretty brutal out there.
8. We were exposed for what we are. A team with size and talent up front, but inexperience and lack of talent at the guard spot, so it's hard to move the ball around well and get good looks against a top opponent.
9. We can't play this poorly again....can we? I really wish Duane didn't get hurt.
This was the first game I have been able to watch.
Mayo was a black hole on offense. Poor performance. Taking step-back three pointers is no way to get your jumpshot going. I was also surprised to see how poorly he finished at the rim. He certainly is no DJO or Vander in that regard. He doesnt create for anyone and doesnt work the defense or the shot clock. He catches and either shoots or drives...or takes a few meaningless dribbles and passes the ball away. Not good.
Meh, I was fine with Todd. At least someone was doing something to try to jump start the offense. Jamil was passive again. Was wondering why Steve Taylor didnt get more playing time and also wondered why Jake was still in the game after missing his first 3 wide open 3s. Let alone two more.
While Todd had a rough go, he's the only guy MU played today that can create his own shot. A far cry from the DJ, Jerel, Wes days.
Needed The 16 n 7 jamil but instead...
Defenses can just sag with no perimeter threat.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 16, 2013, 03:20:27 PM
Meh, I was fine with Todd. At least someone was doing something to try to jump start the offense. Jamil was passive again. Was wondering why Steve Taylor didnt get more playing time and also wondered why Jake was still in the game after missing his first 3 wide open 3s. Let alone two more.
Todd is who he is. A limited, inconsistent 2 guard.
Quote from: thehammock on November 16, 2013, 03:22:03 PM
While Todd had a rough go, he's the only guy MU played today that can create his own shot. A far cry from the DJ, Jerel, Wes days.
Needed The 16 n 7 jamil but instead...
Defenses can just sag with no perimeter threat.
Todd is a junior who turnes 23 in the Spring, correct? His bball IQ is....lacking. He isnt a smart player. Step-back three pointer
s? Ok, Jordan....
I'm not saying his shot selection is the best; just commenting that he was the only guy out there that can create off the dribble.
Quote from: esard2011 on November 16, 2013, 03:20:27 PM
Meh, I was fine with Todd. At least someone was doing something to try to jump start the offense. Jamil was passive again. Was wondering why Steve Taylor didnt get more playing time and also wondered why Jake was still in the game after missing his first 3 wide open 3s. Let alone two more.
I'm not down on his driving game, as it shined early in his freshman season, but then for some reason he lost it. What is disappointing is, just like the other perimeter players, he is insistent on going one on one instead of taking jump shots in rhythm off the pass. He will dribble and create space to take a long step back or straight up jump shot, and those are not smart shots. Jamil is guilty of that a lot as well.
Quote from: statnik on November 16, 2013, 03:34:44 PM
I'm not down on his driving game, as it shined early in his freshman season, but then for some reason he lost it.
Shooters that could spread the floor when he was a freshman.
1. Looking for a leader. Todd couldn't make anything, but at least he kept trying. JWilson, Gardner, Otule.....were elsewhere.
2. DWilson was a man today. A very tired man.
3. Rebounding was good.
4. If you had told me going in MU would hold the Buckeyes to the low 50's, I would have predicted a win
5. We've lost bad before. The season continued anyway. This one will, too.
6. OSU sure plays defense the way they did prior to the 'rule change'.
7. Maybe not Dawson, but at some point JJJ should have come in and started jacking up bricks, too. Why not? Everyone else did.
8. STjr and Juan....now would be a good time to step up. It appears you have regressed.
9. Defense looked good in the first half. Time to install the offense. Too much standing around.
Buzz needs to find a way to get some consistency from Jamil. Need to get him closer to the hoop when he catches. He's not a perimeter player.
Quote from: thehammock on November 16, 2013, 03:42:07 PM
Buzz needs to find a way to get some consistency from Jamil. Need to get him closer to the hoop when he catches. He's not a perimeter player.
Not much of a banger either.
Jamil Wilson is the single biggest disappointment today. I knew this would be a tough game, but Jamil is not tough. Period. The kid as a senior needs to learn to drive the basket and play underneath. Otherwise, give his minutes to Steve Taylor Jr., or Juan.
Find someone who can man up underneath and drive the basket.
Also have no issues with Todd today. He was trying to go to the hoop when the rest of the offense was stalling. The biggest issue, with everything else being a far, far, far second, was getting 5 points from your starting backcourt. Not going to fly in college basketball. When the defense can just play the passing lanes and not the shooter, you have no shot.
You can't have a point guard who dribbles to the corner and picks up his dribble. Wilson is an excellent defender, but it's just not enough.
The far second, but which was still kind of embarrassing was the baseline in bounding. Putting our shortest player inbounding the ball to four guys trying to post their defenders up just makes you scratch your head.
Tough, tough game to watch, but it's not the first time, and Buzz always seems to find a way, so I'm not going to doubt him until he gives me a long term reason to.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on November 16, 2013, 03:40:39 PM
Shooters that could spread the floor when he was a freshman.
That helped, but now his finishing, in traffic or not, is below average. He also goes to that part of his game less. Why did he struggle last year then? We still had some shooters, albeit inconsistent ones.
Quote from: tower912 on November 16, 2013, 03:40:54 PM
1. Looking for a leader. Todd couldn't make anything, but at least he kept trying. JWilson, Gardner, Otule.....were elsewhere.
2. DWilson was a man today. A very tired man.
3. Rebounding was good.
4. If you had told me going in MU would hold the Buckeyes to the low 50's, I would have predicted a win
5. We've lost bad before. The season continued anyway. This one will, too.
6. OSU sure plays defense the way they did prior to the 'rule change'.
7. Maybe not Dawson, but at some point JJJ should have come in and started jacking up bricks, too. Why not? Everyone else did.
8. STjr and Juan....now would be a good time to step up. It appears you have regressed.
9. Defense looked good in the first half. Time to install the offense. Too much standing around.
Nice notes as well. You inspired my topic. ;)
Quote from: statnik on November 16, 2013, 04:02:25 PM
That helped, but now his finishing, in traffic or not, is below average. He also goes to that part of his game less. Why did he struggle last year then? We still had some shooters, albeit inconsistent ones.
We had shooters last year?
Quote from: esard2011 on November 16, 2013, 04:14:26 PM
We had shooters last year?
We had Vander, who improved his shot just enough. He possessed the X-Factor that we desperately need Jamil to have this year. But no, we didn't really have shooters.
Didn't get to watch the game. Sounds like some people are finally starting to figure Todd out here. All about himself and getting his shots. 3/15 shooting? Ouch. Can Todd's apologists admit they were wrong now, just like I'll now admit I was wrong about Derrick? Please get healthy soon Duane!
Heard Todd walked right off the court without shaking hands or anything. Also heard the classroom performance hasn't improved much. Sounds like all the maturing he has done may not have been done.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 16, 2013, 04:27:11 PM
Heard Todd walked right off the court without shaking hands or anything. Also heard the classroom performance hasn't improved much. Sounds like all the maturing he has done may not have been done.
Can anyone confirm that Todd walked off? The classroom stuff is probably just a typical rumor that rears its ugly head after a loss in which Todd plays poorly...
1. We do have a go to guy for scoring--his name is Ox.
2. Buzz needs to send a big time strong message and shake that line up big time. Bench the two Wilsons, and Thomas. Start Dawson, Burton/JJJ, Otule, Ox andTaylor. Maybe some of those veterans that are getting a stint on the bench will learn and step up. And please, we are better off playing the frosh and letting them develop. What has Thomas and the two Wilsons done this year? And J. Wilson is playing much like a Frosh and not like a 5th yr. Sr. Thomas needs to stay mostly on the bench. If Buzz cannot see that, then something is very wrong
3. Mayo will always be the same--good one game and abysmal the next. He is a bench relief/spot starter.
4. Get Du. Wilson in there as soon as possible. He is the future and De. Wilson is a back up.
5. There are no excuses for what we saw today on national TV on our own floor. Other than the wrong guys are getting the big minutes.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 16, 2013, 05:02:49 PM
2. Buzz needs to send a big time strong message and shake that line up big time. Bench the two Wilsons, and Thomas. Start Dawson, Burton/JJJ, Otule, Ox andTaylor. Maybe some of those veterans that are getting a stint on the bench will learn and step up. And please, we are better off playing the frosh and letting them develop. What has Thomas and the two Wilsons done this year? And J. Wilson is playing much like a Frosh and not like a 5th yr. Sr. Thomas needs to stay mostly on the bench. If Buzz cannot see that, then something is very wrong
That is a big boy lineup right there
Quote from: willie warrior on November 16, 2013, 05:02:49 PM
1. We do have a go to guy for scoring--his name is Ox.
Touché. I'm thinking more in terms of a dynamic guard or wing player we have been so used to over the last 5 years.
I think the "Gardner should take 3's crowd" now have their answer. Takes a 3, Otule up off the bench in about a half a second.
Gardner has uncanny ability to score near the basket, but his defense is still just abysmal. The big run/layup drill for OSU came with him in the game, and doing nothing to contest anything at the rim.
The offense was atrocious. Given the very poor shooting performance of the entire team, I'm not sure how that can be laid so neatly and cleanly at the feet of Derrick as so many want to do, but I guess he didn't do much to dispel the concerns regarding his game. Team ball movement was lousy. Movement without the ball was lousy. Shooting was lousy. Nobody looked like they knew what to do or that they particularly wanted to be doing it anyway.
The bigger issue to me is having Gardner up at the top of the key so much. What the heck is he doing up there? Somebody else can screen for the ballhandler. He needs to be on the block, and the offense needs to run through the post for better or for worse. If our guys were cutting and moving without the ball (not much of that happening today) that could be an effective set.
At least we can all cool it on the Buzz to Texas talk. If anybody associated with Texas was watching that stinker their interest level just dropped considerably.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on November 16, 2013, 05:40:17 PM
I think the "Gardner should take 3's crowd" now have their answer. Takes a 3, Otule up off the bench in about a half a second.
Gardner has uncanny ability to score near the basket, but his defense is still just abysmal. The big run/layup drill for OSU came with him in the game, and doing nothing to contest anything at the rim.
The offense was atrocious. Given the very poor shooting performance of the entire team, I'm not sure how that can be laid so neatly and cleanly at the feet of Derrick as so many want to do, but I guess he didn't do much to dispel the concerns regarding his game. Team ball movement was lousy. Movement without the ball was lousy. Shooting was lousy. Nobody looked like they knew what to do or that they particularly wanted to be doing it anyway.
The bigger issue to me is having Gardner up at the top of the key so much. What the heck is he doing up there? Somebody else can screen for the ballhandler. He needs to be on the block, and the offense needs to run through the post for better or for worse. If our guys were cutting and moving without the ball (not much of that happening today) that could be an effective set.
At least we can all cool it on the Buzz to Texas talk. If anybody associated with Texas was watching that stinker their interest level just dropped considerably.
I have more confidence in Gardner taking a 3 than most of our guards.
PG is the big weakness. There is no threat whatsoever on offense so it is very easy to double up on anyone. Even if Derrick isn't guarded, he can't get to the hoop.
I would venture to say as a general rule - If Derrick takes more shots than Davante - we lose. Period. Every time. Does anyone expect DW to even average 5 pts a game? But, even beside the lack of scoring, he creates zero offense.
No team can win shooting 19%.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 16, 2013, 05:56:39 PM
I have more confidence in Gardner taking a 3 than most of our guards.
Yeah, you should be a coach. It totally makes sense to pull our most efficient scorer who makes baskets around the rim out to the 3 point line. Brilliant. ::)
Quote from: Atticus on November 16, 2013, 06:52:32 PM
Yeah, you should be a coach. It totally makes sense to pull our most efficient scorer who makes baskets around the rim out to the 3 point line. Brilliant. ::)
I didn't say that--pulling him out to the three--you did so that speaks volumes to your brilliance. What I said is that I have more confidence---but hey make up whatever you want to--it is a posting board where you can expound away.
Quote from: Atticus on November 16, 2013, 06:52:32 PM
Yeah, you should be a coach. It totally makes sense to pull our most efficient scorer who makes baskets around the rim out to the 3 point line. Brilliant. ::)
We could have said much the same about Crowder. At least until Buzz gave him the gree light and worked 2 or 3 trey attempts/game into Crowder's shot selection.
Look, if guards can't get Gardner the ball because the defense is going to pack it inside, then yes it does make sense to try to work a three point shot into Gardner's shooting.
Gardner moves out to the line, one of two things happens: either his defender comes out and defends him there (opening the lane). Or they stay inside (leaving him with an open shot).
I have been rooting for d Wilson. But I saw a major problem with his limited offensive threat. When gardner get great post position on with d Wilson having the ball, d Wilson cannot pass it to him because his defender is in a permanent 6 feet sag off of him. Ox never had a chance to get it going because d Wilson couldn't get the ball to the blocks ever. That also could be why Ox comes to the top of the key so much. After he passes it off he goes back to post up, but of course once he is in great position to score or get fouled d Wilson has the ball on his side with a defender sagging 6 feet off of him and d Wilson can't get him the ball.
Duane and Dawson. We need them. D Wilson can play. But he hurts us when we need offense.
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 16, 2013, 07:03:55 PM
We could have said much the same about Crowder. At least until Buzz gave him the gree light and worked 2 or 3 trey attempts/game into Crowder's shot selection.
Look, if guards can't get Gardner the ball because the defense is going to pack it inside, then yes it does make sense to try to work a three point shot into Gardner's shooting.
Gardner moves out to the line, one of two things happens: either his defender comes out and defends him there (opening the lane). Or they stay inside (leaving him with an open shot).
Funny. And if teams play zone, then Gardner is shooting a three against a guard or a forward who is much quicker and can elevate much higher than Gardner can when he releases a shot. That will work really well against team with even average height. And again, it makes so much sense to pull DG away from where he is most efficient....and can draw fouls. ::)
Quote from: The Equalizer on November 16, 2013, 07:03:55 PM
We could have said much the same about Crowder. At least until Buzz gave him the gree light and worked 2 or 3 trey attempts/game into Crowder's shot selection.
That is really a dumb comparison. They are two different players with two different games.
Quote from: Atticus on November 16, 2013, 07:28:41 PM
Funny. And if teams play zone, then Gardner is shooting a three against a guard or a forward who is much quicker and can elevate much higher than Gardner can when he releases a shot. That will work really well against team with even average height. And again, it makes so much sense to pull DG away from where he is most efficient....and can draw fouls. ::)
Makes no sense - so Gardner is gonna out to 3 land and wait for a guard to come out on him before he shoots so the shot can get blocked?
As our top option on offense - he got 6 shots today. DWill took more shots than Davante. Jake took more shots than Davante. Todd took 2 1/2 times the shots that Davante took. Obviously we don't have the guards that can get the ball in to the post.
Ball can't get into the post when the defense is packed in like that.
1.Davante was not consistently working hard for position.
2. tOSU was sending instant double teams in the second half that he read poorly.
3. And the pressure and sagging done by tOSU guards confused our guards and they stood still and quit playing aggressively.
4. After the charge call that was his second foul, he never went hard to the rim again.
Quote from: brandx on November 16, 2013, 07:36:22 PM
Makes no sense - so Gardner is gonna out to 3 land and wait for a guard to come out on him before he shoots so the shot can get blocked?
As our top option on offense - he got 6 shots today. DWill took more shots than Davante. Jake took more shots than Davante. Todd took 2 1/2 times the shots that Davante took. Obviously we don't have the guards that can get the ball in to the post.
I guess Im missing something. Devante is suppose to play inside, get his buckets the way he always has, draw fouls.....and also drift to the 3-point line to shoot threes? Oh, thats it? Is that all we are going to ask him to do? No biggie.
When DG shoots a jumper, his release is slow. He is quick in the lane and crafty but certainly not when left alone for a midrange jumper. Forget it...I cant believe Im arguing against DG drifting to the 3 point line to shoot threes. Such an awesome strategy! ::)