MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MarquetteNation on October 24, 2013, 08:02:57 PM
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http://mobile.philly.com/sports/?wss=/philly/sports/sbnation/sixers/&id=229181001
Too bad...hopefully he gets more opportunities down the road. Keep working hard, Vander!
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Ugh bad last few weeks of camp for the MU boys.
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Haters chime in 5 4 3......
Hopefully he finds another team
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Had a decent pre-season. Think if he takes the lower pay in the D League he might have a good shot at a call-up during the season.
Only encouraging news in the preseason has been some solid play by Dwight. Has definitely outplayed Augustin and should be earning more minutes at the backup point spot. Raptors are in Milwaukee tomorrow night.
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shoot.... now how are the 76ers going to do the WHOP handshake?
http://fansided.com/2013/10/23/philadelphia-76ers-players-unique-whop-handshake-video/
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Maybe he was too good??? ;)
The team is benching Noel for the season; they aren't sending him to the D League and won't be playing him in any games. He's a practice player and apparently woefully under-developed. He needs work.
In other words, they are tanking harder than any team in NBA history.
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Haters chime in 5 4 3......
Hopefully he finds another team
Is it being a hater to say it's not that surprising?
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Is it being a hater to say it's not that surprising?
For some people, yes. Largely it will depend on who says it, not what was said. That's the standard here.
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Not surprised he was waived but if he's mailing six figures somewhere this season, his decision was still the right one. He is who he is. I love buzz but I'm not convinced year 4 would have changed that draft slot.
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Not surprised he was waived but if he's mailing six figures somewhere this season, his decision was still the right one. He is who he is. I love buzz but I'm not convinced year 4 would have changed that draft slot.
YES IT WOLD HAVE! Year 4 would have made all the difference in the world for him showing that he could run the point and he can do it back to back and take his team loaded with freshman back to the Tournament. He missed out on being able to add leadership and play making skills at PG to his resume.'
He wasn't drafted at all so how could another year have hurt him?...what are you talking about. Back to back tournaments would have had him in the late 1st and early 2nd round. But I bet he will tell you you live with your decision like a man and it is what it is...keep grinding.
But he had a great shot. And went to a great team to try to catch on to. But before training camp they brought in James Anderson and Troy Wroten and Darius Morris and drafted a couple of guys that did him in....
But it was an open competition. When they got Wroten and Anderson and have J-Rich under contract I kind of knew he was done unless he could show them that he could have played point which he would have had a chance to do if he came back here...
Then he could have been the starting PG here in front of Derrick now that Duane is down that would have expanded his resume' and he would have been drafted because he can make plays and pass as well. But at 6'4 he is not a lights out shooter yet so that hurt him.
If you are 6'4 you better be able to shoot like Jordan Crawford or Bradley Beal to stick....he will pop up again.
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Looks like Hollis Thompson will make the 76ers out of training camp.
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YES IT WOLD HAVE! Year 4 would have made all the difference in the world for him showing that he could run the point and he can do it back to back and take his team loaded with freshman back to the Tournament. He missed out on being able to add leadership and play making skills at PG to his resume.'
He wasn't drafted at all so how could another year have hurt him?...what are you talking about. Back to back tournaments would have had him in the late 1st and early 2nd round. But I bet he will tell you you live with your decision like a man and it is what it is...keep grinding.
But he had a great shot. And went to a great team to try to catch on to. But before training camp they brought in James Anderson and Troy Wroten and Darius Morris and drafted a couple of guys that did him in....
But it was an open competition. When they got Wroten and Anderson and have J-Rich under contract I kind of knew he was done unless he could show them that he could have played point which he would have had a chance to do if he came back here...
Then he could have been the starting PG here in front of Derrick now that Duane is down that would have expanded his resume' and he would have been drafted because he can make plays and pass as well. But at 6'4 he is not a lights out shooter yet so that hurt him.
If you are 6'4 you better be able to shoot like Jordan Crawford or Bradley Beal to stick....he will pop up again.
Perhaps you didn't take a peek at the absolutely loaded draft that is going to happen this year (being talked about as one of the most stacked ever) versus the crap draft class last year. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Vander could have improved and helped MU a ton. His draft status probably might not have been higher than last year.
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YES IT WOLD HAVE! Year 4 would have made all the difference in the world for him showing that he could run the point and he can do it back to back and take his team loaded with freshman back to the Tournament. He missed out on being able to add leadership and play making skills at PG to his resume.'
No way to know that. If Vander comes back, Buzz may well have left him at the 2/3 position where he had so much success. Jake would have left and while Juan's situation seemed to be more family-related, it's possible that the lure of PT Vander wasn't going to get also helped bring him back. Take Juan and Jake out of the equation and suddenly Vander isn't likely going to be sliding down to the point so much.
He wasn't drafted at all so how could another year have hurt him?...what are you talking about. Back to back tournaments would have had him in the late 1st and early 2nd round. But I bet he will tell you you live with your decision like a man and it is what it is...keep grinding.
How could another year have hurt him? Maybe he suffers a season ending injury. Maybe his offense regresses back to his sophomore year as guys like Mayo and JJJ prove they have the talent to cut into his playing time. Or maybe the simple talent explosion that is the 2014 draft class is so much that guys that are fringe draft picks (like Vander clearly was) don't even get as much interest as UFAs.
I do now believe that he made a mistake and I was absolutely wrong about Vander's current positioning. I thought he'd get picked and figured even if he didn't he'd have a good shot at making a team. Maybe he gets lucky and gets called up during the year. Could that end up being best for his career? Maybe. No point belaboring the decision now. Van should have stayed, but he didn't. Here's hoping he realizes his dream and finds a way into the league.
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The recent developments show that it was a poor decision by VB to leave early if he wanted to make a NBA roster this year. I think he would have been drafted after a standout senior year, but who knows. Looks like he'll have to slog it out in the D league or in Europe. Not bad options, but not the NBA.
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The recent developments show that it was a poor decision by VB to leave early if he wanted to make a NBA roster this year. I think he would have been drafted after a standout senior year, but who knows. Looks like he'll have to slog it out in the D league or in Europe. Not bad options, but not the NBA.
We of course do not know, but being a year older in a stronger draft does not make it likely he would be drafted. Given he could not make a team that wanted to lose may indicate he was not close to making a real NBA team this year. Especially, since winning was not important to the 76'ers the team probably would of tried to project how much this year's young players would have improved for next year. I would argue that Blue being cut in this situation indicates that the 76'ers did not see him having much upside. Following this arguement would indicate another year in college would not of helped Blue make the NBA. Assuming Blue did not like college, it was still a good decision for him.
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Maybe he was too good??? ;)
The team is benching Noel for the season; they aren't sending him to the D League and won't be playing him in any games. He's a practice player and apparently woefully under-developed. He needs work.
In other words, they are tanking harder than any team in NBA history.
except maybe the 2013-2014 celtics
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Vander is a great example and, hopefully, a lesson, for all the young men in college who have NBA dreams. Be VERY careful who you listen to and make sure you listen to people who might tell you things you do NOT want to hear. Those people might just be right.
I hope Vander cracks "the bigs" at some point. Keep working kid.
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Vander will make it. Bummer we will have to wait a little longer to see it but he will make it
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From an article posted last night on usatoday.com
"If I don't make the team, I'll sit down with my agent and we'll come up with another option," Blue said, "but I definitely think I'm an NBA player. I think I've shown that to this organization and to other teams, that I can play at this level and I'm ready to play, so I'm just going to wait and see what happens."
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Could be someone claims him before the season starts as well. Wouldn't surprise me if the Celtics look to pick him up, as he tortured Brad Stevens last year and played well against Boston this preseason
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Vander is a great example and, hopefully, a lesson, for all the young men in college who have NBA dreams. Be VERY careful who you listen to and make sure you listen to people who might tell you things you do NOT want to hear. Those people might just be right.
I hope Vander cracks "the bigs" at some point. Keep working kid.
Totally disagree. He took a shot, and it didn't work out. To assume he would have been drafted this coming year is not realistic. The NBA drafts on three major aspects:
1. Talent
2. Potential
3. Age
If you check out who gets drafted in the NBA, it is not predominantly Seniors. Vander's talent is obvious, and his problem areas were obvious as well. He wasn't a good shooter (though he did improve), he wasn't big enough to play the 2, and didn't have the ability to distribute and handle the 1 (Kind of like Brandon Knight). It is entirely possible these days to be a great college player, but not have your game translate to the NBA. Might he have improved his shooting his senior year? Yes. But he would also be another year older. He most certainly would not have changed his body size/shape from his Junior to Senior year.
Overall, I don't see how people can judge his decision as good or bad. Wait until you see what this coming year's draft class is like and ask yourself where Van would have been drafted. I think you might be surprised to find out that he probably wouldn't have been drafted in the upcoming year either.
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Impossible to answer the question if he would have stayed it would have worked out. I'm in the camp that his options would be better, but i'm going off what Draft Express and other draft experts were saying, that he would be a late first rounder next year.
He could have got hurt. Could have regressed. Etc. All possible.
We'll never know. Hope he finds his way to a team.
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I am sorry he left, but I'm not convinced it was the wrong decision. Time at the point in a not-to-be senior year may have exposed him rather than helped him. He ended his junior year in spectacular fashion (Elite 8, two game winners) and I just can't see his stock getting exponentially higher. Just one man's opinion.
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Impossible to answer the question if he would have stayed it would have worked out. I'm in the camp that his options would be better, but i'm going off what Draft Express and other draft experts were saying, that he would be a late first rounder next year.
He could have got hurt. Could have regressed. Etc. All possible.
We'll never know. Hope he finds his way to a team.
This. 100%.
Also, for those saying he got the wrong advice, does that mean you think Dominic James got the wrong advice too?
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If Vander has NBA-level talent, he'll be on an NBA roster at some point. It didn't matter if he came back next year or not. If you can play at that level, someone will find you.
Considering his release, it's easy to say that he made the wrong decision leaving early. However, even if he did come back, he wasn't going to be a 1st Round pick next year (i.e. guaranteed 2-year deal). At best, he would have been a 2nd Rounder, which isn't all that different than being undrafted, especially since Van still got some cash for being on the Sixers preseason roster.
Far too many people also seem to think that another year in college would improve his game while completely ignoring the fact that spending a year doing nothing but workout and play basketball may help his game even more. All of the time that he would have spent in class and studying can now be spent working on his game. That's probably at least 20 hours/week. He'll also be playing and practicing against stiffer competition, be it in the D-League or overseas.
From a Marquette fan's perspective, I definitely think he should have come back, but it's his career and none of us can truly say that he was wrong to do what's best for his own career.
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Impossible to answer the question if he would have stayed it would have worked out. I'm in the camp that his options would be better, but i'm going off what Draft Express and other draft experts were saying, that he would be a late first rounder next year.
He could have got hurt. Could have regressed. Etc. All possible.
We'll never know. Hope he finds his way to a team.
Vander had a great year last year, and good for him for making his decision. He has NBA talent, but when he jumped, it was on the defensive end. He is still young, and staying another year would have given him PG minutes and given him a year to develop his shot, with a very good chance at guaranteed first round money. That said, he can do that (develop his offensive game like DB) in the NBDL if the degree and school was not as important to him. His leaving opened up playing time for Todd, JJJ and Juan.
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For some people, yes. Largely it will depend on who says it, not what was said. That's the standard here.
Victimhood. It's not just for breakfast anymore.
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For some people, yes. Largely it will depend on who says it, not what was said. That's the standard here.
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
Looks like someone's gone off their meds.
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31 teams are now better because Vander is not on them.
30 NBA teams... and MU.
Somebody had to say it.
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Totally disagree. He took a shot, and it didn't work out. To assume he would have been drafted this coming year is not realistic. The NBA drafts on three major aspects:
1. Talent (undeniable)
2. Potential (see above)
3. Age (he was young for his class, if I recall correctly - he could have stuck around and I don't think this would have been a factor)
If you check out who gets drafted in the NBA, it is not predominantly Seniors. Vander's talent is obvious, and his problem areas were obvious as well. He wasn't a good shooter (though he did improve), he wasn't big enough to play the 2, and didn't have the ability to distribute and handle the 1 (Kind of like Brandon Knight). It is entirely possible these days to be a great college player, but not have your game translate to the NBA. Might he have improved his shooting his senior year? Yes. But he would also be another year older. He most certainly would not have changed his body size/shape from his Junior to Senior year.
Overall, I don't see how people can judge his decision as good or bad. Wait until you see what this coming year's draft class is like and ask yourself where Van would have been drafted. I think you might be surprised to find out that he probably wouldn't have been drafted in the upcoming year either.
You are totally right - he took a shot and it didn't work out. If you are a college kid who is a consensus, can't miss, guaranteed first round pick, then you take your shot. If you miss, tough luck but you have a pile of money that can hopefully carry you for life. See: Oden, Greg.
If, however, you have coaches and draft experts telling you that you are borderline 1st round (and I think that was the best-case), then the risk/reward dynamics are totally different. No fat contract. No guaranteed $$. In Vander's case, no college degree (he would have graduated in 4, I think) that you will have in your pocket when it's time for a regular job.
We can debate the benefit/lack thereof if he had stayed for his Senior year but the facts before he was drafted were the facts. He was marginal first round material. He took a shot and failed - but going in, the risk/reward analysis from people in the know was not favorable for him.
Shocking as it may be, all the people whispering in your ear about how you can't miss (and who stand to benefit if you do get picked) drop away when you don't. Then what? The lesson I think a lot of kids need to learn is the "what if?" that surrounds the draft if they don't get drafted.
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31 teams are now better because Vander is not on them.
30 NBA teams... and MU.
Somebody had to say it.
That's just a punk thing to write from a human with a pointless existence.
Van made the right choice in April. And Marquette will not be a better team for it.
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Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
Looks like someone's gone off their meds.
I love mental illness jokes when it is still before lunch time. You know it's going to be a good day.
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You are totally right - he took a shot and it didn't work out. If you are a college kid who is a consensus, can't miss, guaranteed first round pick, then you take your shot. If you miss, tough luck but you have a pile of money that can hopefully carry you for life. See: Oden, Greg.
If, however, you have coaches and draft experts telling you that you are borderline 1st round (and I think that was the best-case), then the risk/reward dynamics are totally different. No fat contract. No guaranteed $$. In Vander's case, no college degree (he would have graduated in 4, I think) that you will have in your pocket when it's time for a regular job.
We can debate the benefit/lack thereof if he had stayed for his Senior year but the facts before he was drafted were the facts. He was marginal first round material. He took a shot and failed - but going in, the risk/reward analysis from people in the know was not favorable for him.
Shocking as it may be, all the people whispering in your ear about how you can't miss (and who stand to benefit if you do get picked) drop away when you don't. Then what? The lesson I think a lot of kids need to learn is the "what if?" that surrounds the draft if they don't get drafted.
I get what you are saying, and I don't necessarily disagree, but I'm not sure there were a ton of people in Van's ear telling him to leave early. If I remember correctly, his family was telling him just the opposite. The other thing I can't agree with is that Van will need a college degree. He will most likely be playing basketball somewhere in the world for a lot of money for a long time. It may not be the NBA, but he will absolutely not be flipping burgers or pumping gas.
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I didn't see this anywhere else.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thwaMFb05Q8#t=82
RIP WHOP
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shoot.... now how are the 76ers going to do the WHOP handshake?
http://fansided.com/2013/10/23/philadelphia-76ers-players-unique-whop-handshake-video/
Now we know why he did not participate in the slap of five...any chump can do that......
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1. Talent (undeniable)
Vander has undeniable athleticism. That is not the same thing as undeniable talent. Is he an undeniably talented ball-handler? Passer? Shooter? He is not NBA level at any of that yet. I think his best hope for the NBA is to shoot a million 3s a day and become a "3 and D" specialist.
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31 teams are now better because Vander is not on them.
30 NBA teams... and MU.
Somebody had to say it.
-100
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You are totally right - he took a shot and it didn't work out. If you are a college kid who is a consensus, can't miss, guaranteed first round pick, then you take your shot. If you miss, tough luck but you have a pile of money that can hopefully carry you for life. See: Oden, Greg.
If, however, you have coaches and draft experts telling you that you are borderline 1st round (and I think that was the best-case), then the risk/reward dynamics are totally different. No fat contract. No guaranteed $$. In Vander's case, no college degree (he would have graduated in 4, I think) that you will have in your pocket when it's time for a regular job.
We can debate the benefit/lack thereof if he had stayed for his Senior year but the facts before he was drafted were the facts. He was marginal first round material. He took a shot and failed - but going in, the risk/reward analysis from people in the know was not favorable for him.
Shocking as it may be, all the people whispering in your ear about how you can't miss (and who stand to benefit if you do get picked) drop away when you don't. Then what? The lesson I think a lot of kids need to learn is the "what if?" that surrounds the draft if they don't get drafted.
Don't be so overdramatic. You make it sound like he got one shot at it and since he didn't get drafted, he'll never be an NBA player and he'll always regret not getting his degree. In his partially guaranteed contract, I'm guessing he made more than almost all of us made in our first year out of college and that was for a couple month's work. If only he had that Comm degree so he could go get an entry level job at a PR firm now! Come on! He can always go back and finish up his degree if he needs to.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Sixers sign him to their D-League team. If they don't, someone else will. Or he has the option to go overseas. The NBA is obviously his dream, but how many of us would have dropped out of school for a six-figure contract to play basketball in Spain?
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I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Sixers sign him to their D-League team. If they don't, someone else will. Or he has the option to go overseas. The NBA is obviously his dream, but how many of us would have dropped out of school for a six-figure contract to play basketball in Spain?
What if I thought one more year would lead to a 6 figure contract in the States.....
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What if I thought one more year would lead to a 6 figure contract in the States.....
No guarantee and you hate school. Decision seems easy.
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31 teams are now better because Vander is not on them.
30 NBA teams... and MU.
Somebody had to say it.
Ok, but you're at the very least 96.77% wrong.
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No guarantee and you hate school. Decision seems easy.
Lots of people hate school, but you plow through it because it pays a bigger dividend in the end.
We'll never know, I'm just going with the experts that said he was a 1st rounder next year. Oh well, he listened to other experts. Hope he latches on somewhere.
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We'll never know, I'm just going with the experts that said he was a 1st rounder next year.
You're going with a more than a year in advance preseason poll? I smell irony...I smell hypocrisy...I smell...something rotten in Denmark.
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Dang, really hope Vander at the very least gets some call-ups. Two 10-day contracts = ~$100k. Either that or take the Buycks route and work on PG skills in Europe then make your way back stateside in a couple years whilst cashing checks on an exciting foreign adventure.
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Lots of people hate school, but you plow through it because it pays a bigger dividend in the end.
We'll never know, I'm just going with the experts that said he was a 1st rounder next year. Oh well, he listened to other experts. Hope he latches on somewhere.
Who were these "experts" who said that? Where did they say that? And what exactly makes them experts?
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Lots of people hate school, but you plow through it because it pays a bigger dividend in the end.
Man, if you hate college then you're doing it wrong. I loved my 4 years.
note: I'm not saying you Chicos, but rather the general you
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That's just a punk thing to write from a human with a pointless existence.
Van made the right choice in April. And Marquette will not be a better team for it.
I disagree with what he said.
But don't you think calling his existence pointless is going a little far?
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Who were these "experts" who said that? Where did they say that? And what exactly makes them experts?
Jonathon Givony, founder of Draft Express was one....the same expert that said Vander wouldn't get drafted. He has a business dedicated to the draft and prognostications, works with the GMs, etc. I've had some nice discussions with him over the last 5 years or so. Have several friends that work for DE.
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Don't be so overdramatic. You make it sound like he got one shot at it and since he didn't get drafted, he'll never be an NBA player and he'll always regret not getting his degree. In his partially guaranteed contract, I'm guessing he made more than almost all of us made in our first year out of college and that was for a couple month's work. If only he had that Comm degree so he could go get an entry level job at a PR firm now! Come on! He can always go back and finish up his degree if he needs to.
I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Sixers sign him to their D-League team. If they don't, someone else will. Or he has the option to go overseas. The NBA is obviously his dream, but how many of us would have dropped out of school for a six-figure contract to play basketball in Spain?
I wasn't being over dramatic. I felt I was stating the facts as I saw them. And you are right, Vander likely made a nice chunk of change but I doubt it's "set for life" money. Playing somewhere other than the NBA - does that get you "set for life money"? I don't know but I doubt it.
My statement was true. His shot at that one-time mega check for getting drafted in the first round is gone. And, again, in my opinion, the risk/reward trade-off for him was not a good one. Other kids should heed that lesson. That's all I'm saying.
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Jonathon Givony, founder of Draft Express was one....the same expert that said Vander wouldn't get drafted. He has a business dedicated to the draft and prognostications, works with the GMs, etc. I've had some nice discussions with him over the last 5 years or so. Have several friends that work for DE.
Show us where he said that. Also, that's only one guy. You said "experts" projected him as a 1st Rounder in 2014. That would mean multiple experts ;D
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Show us where he said that. Also, that's only one guy. You said "experts" projected him as a 1st Rounder in 2014. That would mean multiple experts ;D
That's the same guy who was interviewed by Cracked Sidewalks. When he was asked, "So, you see him going in the second round?" he answered:
"Tough to say what every NBA team thinks. It's very possible 25 or 26 teams feel one way, but if one or two teams like him in the first round, they might take him. Or maybe some say they will take him early in the second round. He was very active early on getting information about the NBA so its possible that some discussions have been had that lead to an earlier pick based on those discussions. But my general projection is that he is a second round pick right now that could work his way up. Depends how he does in workouts, interviews."
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That's the same guy who was interviewed by Cracked Sidewalks. When he was asked, "So, you see him going in the second round?" he answered:
"Tough to say what every NBA team thinks. It's very possible 25 or 26 teams feel one way, but if one or two teams like him in the first round, they might take him. Or maybe some say they will take him early in the second round. He was very active early on getting information about the NBA so its possible that some discussions have been had that lead to an earlier pick based on those discussions. But my general projection is that he is a second round pick right now that could work his way up. Depends how he does in workouts, interviews."
I interviewed him....of course as more data came in, etc, he dropped Vander out entirely from his draft board and as we know he didn't get drafted. He was probably right on Vander, should have stayed in and come back due to his age, etc, but to each their own.
Draft Express had him #21 in the 2014 draft.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/16/marquettes-vander-blue-to-enter-the-nba-draft/
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"DraftExpress.com currently has Blue as the No. 21 selection in the 2014 NBA draft, while NBADraft.net lists him at No. 38 in the 2014 draft." (One drafting service says first rounder, one says early second rounder".
http://painttouches.com/2013/04/16/blue-forgoes-senior-year-enters-nba-draft/
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I wasn't being over dramatic. I felt I was stating the facts as I saw them. And you are right, Vander likely made a nice chunk of change but I doubt it's "set for life" money. Playing somewhere other than the NBA - does that get you "set for life money"? I don't know but I doubt it.
My statement was true. His shot at that one-time mega check for getting drafted in the first round is gone. And, again, in my opinion, the risk/reward trade-off for him was not a good one. Other kids should heed that lesson. That's all I'm saying.
Not sure about the money he made this summer, but the NBDL generally pays around $35,000 and Europe is around $100,000. Europe can set you for life if you are smart with investments and have a fairly long career (probably have to be over 10 years). NBDL, on the other hand, will not even come close no matter how long you play there. I hope Blue catches on somewhere in the NBA eventually. I'll be pulling for him.
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Show us where he said that. Also, that's only one guy. You said "experts" projected him as a 1st Rounder in 2014. That would mean multiple experts ;D
Touche....I just posted, one said first rounder, the other early second rounder....my bad. I can admit when I'm wrong, it would be cool if others tried it sometime. ;) Nevertheless, the top two services saying he was going to be drafted next year.
I don't buy the hate school nonsense either. Everyone knows with college basketball your last year you just have to go to class your first semester. All he had to do was go to school for one more semester after already going for 3 years. That seems a complete cop out to me. I hope it works out for him.
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Googling .. This was written about a year ago .. "playing in the D-league is the fact that most D-league salaries range from only $12,000 to $24,000. Average overseas players can get a $65,000 contract with ease. Depending on the league that players get into in Europe, salaries can start as high as $100,000."
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And in Europe, a lot of times, the team will pay for your apartment, car, and most expenses. Not a bad gig but it ain't no national championship
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Man, if you hate college then you're doing it wrong. I loved my 4 years.
note: I'm not saying you Chicos, but rather the general you
Loved college ... hated school.
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Loved college ... hated school.
Millions of peoples' experience perfectly captured in four little words - that's genius, 82.
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Touche....I just posted, one said first rounder, the other early second rounder....my bad. I can admit when I'm wrong, it would be cool if others tried it sometime. ;) Nevertheless, the top two services saying he was going to be drafted next year.
I don't buy the hate school nonsense either. Everyone knows with college basketball your last year you just have to go to class your first semester. All he had to do was go to school for one more semester after already going for 3 years. That seems a complete cop out to me. I hope it works out for him.
I don't understand how you can latch on to one man's opinion from the end of last season and lay it at our feet and act like it is gospel. Its astounding. There was an entire season of basketball to be played. Why even play at all!
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And in Europe, a lot of times, the team will pay for your apartment, car, and most expenses. Not a bad gig but it ain't no national championship
And in Russia, car and apartment pay you.
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I guess that I completely disagree with your statements below. The draft is a mix of talent and hype. If VB had a standout senior year and another stellar post season (which was projected by most), I believe that he would have been drafted. If he's drafted in the first round, he gets a contract and is a NBA player. If he is drafted in the 2nd round, he's still in the mix for a roster spot and does not make GM's look stupid for cutting players they drafted over UDFA's. Instead, he took poor advice, took a chance he could make a roster and got burned in the process. Now VB does not have a degree and has no job. Good decision? I don't think so.
We of course do not know, but being a year older in a stronger draft does not make it likely he would be drafted. Given he could not make a team that wanted to lose may indicate he was not close to making a real NBA team this year. Especially, since winning was not important to the 76'ers the team probably would of tried to project how much this year's young players would have improved for next year. I would argue that Blue being cut in this situation indicates that the 76'ers did not see him having much upside. Following this arguement would indicate another year in college would not of helped Blue make the NBA. Assuming Blue did not like college, it was still a good decision for him.
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I guess that I completely disagree with your statements below. The draft is a mix of talent and hype. If VB had a standout senior year and another stellar post season (which was projected by most), I believe that he would have been drafted. If he's drafted in the first round, he gets a contract and is a NBA player. If he is drafted in the 2nd round, he's still in the mix for a roster spot and does not make GM's look stupid for cutting players they drafted over UDFA's. Instead, he took poor advice, took a chance he could make a roster and got burned in the process. Now VB does not have a degree and has no job. Good decision? I don't think so.
Exactly how long do you think he'll be unemployed for?
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Exactly how long do you think he'll be unemployed for?
As long as it takes FedEx to deliver his new contract from the Georgian Superliga.
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Man, if you hate college then you're doing it wrong. I loved my 4 years.
note: I'm not saying you Chicos, but rather the general you
I loved it so much I stayed 5 years and kept adding majors and minors...then two different grad schools on top of that. College was great....wish I was still in school, sure beats the real world.
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I don't understand how you can latch on to one man's opinion from the end of last season and lay it at our feet and act like it is gospel. Its astounding. There was an entire season of basketball to be played. Why even play at all!
It wasn't one man's opinion, it was his and the people that work for him....basically it is a consensus of their organization. Couldn't you flip your statement on its head and say Vander listened to "one man's opinion" or maybe a few folks and laid it at his feet, acted like it was gospel and made his decision that he thought he was going to get drafted despite several articles stating that finding a GM that was interested in him was like finding water in the Sahara?
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Millions of peoples' experience perfectly captured in four little words - that's genius, 82.
Thanks, Lenny. See what a Marquette education can do for a guy (even one who might have missed a class or two or 100)?
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That's just a punk thing to write from a human with a pointless existence.
Van made the right choice in April. And Marquette will not be a better team for it.
You are entitled to your opinion and so am I. I appreciate that.
Here's how I see it:
4 April - Jake announces his departure
15 April - Juan announces his departure
16 April - Vander declares for draft
18 April - Jake comes back
20 May - Juan returns
POSSIBLY, Vander isn't much of a team player. Possibly he's a selfish, me-first individual. Possibly, he needs to sort that out before he's welcome on a team. I still wish Vander well and hope he ends up making $$$, but I said in April last year that he'll end up somewhere like Philippines or China where basketball mercenaries play pickup ball for dollars. If I'm wrong, good for Vander. If I'm right, he should have stayed in school, because he'd learn more from Buzz than anyone else.
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Except as has been detailed elsewhere, Juan's departure wasn't related to PT. Maybe Van leaving let him see there was more time here, or got him thinking the team would need him that much more, but it really seems to primarily have been a family matter that cleared itself up. So your real contention is that Jake Thomas makes MU a better team than Vander Blue does.
Your comment was still at least 96.77% wrong.
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You are entitled to your opinion and so am I. I appreciate that.
Here's how I see it:
4 April - Jake announces his departure
15 April - Juan announces his departure
16 April - Vander declares for draft
18 April - Jake comes back
20 May - Juan returns
POSSIBLY, Vander isn't much of a team player. Possibly he's a selfish, me-first individual. Possibly, he needs to sort that out before he's welcome on a team. I still wish Vander well and hope he ends up making $$$, but I said in April last year that he'll end up somewhere like Philippines or China where basketball mercenaries play pickup ball for dollars. If I'm wrong, good for Vander. If I'm right, he should have stayed in school, because he'd learn more from Buzz than anyone else.
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I said in April last year that he'll end up somewhere like Philippines where basketball mercenaries play pickup ball for dollars.
Man, have you never been to the Philippines?? What a great place for a young man learn to spread his wings. Nothing wrong with balling in the P.I....
(http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/asia/110233d1366212133-beautiful-filipinas-but-not-your-typical-kristel-moreno-5.jpg)
(http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/02122008/7/e/b/3/7eb317894013b0_full.jpg)
(http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire1/02122008/d/3/c/2/d3c240194a6cb0_full.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh255/minh9long/Miriam%20Quiambao/mir99.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img96/3097/idaao0.jpg)
(http://s4.hubimg.com/u/4916763_f520.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AVDJaBxEvfc/T7DHbQgcWxI/AAAAAAAAJe0/mMoQr3h9qH8/s1600/6.jpg)
(http://www.rapsa.ph/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/San-Miguel-Beer.jpg)
(http://www.philippinesplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Beautiful-filipina.jpg)
(http://filipinawomensnetwork.org/Resources/Pictures/Rebecca_Corteza.jpg)
(http://www.dpinoyweb.com/celebrity_gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=465&g2_serialNumber=1)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/k3asg6.jpg)
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Except as has been detailed elsewhere, Juan's departure wasn't related to PT. Maybe Van leaving let him see there was more time here, or got him thinking the team would need him that much more, but it really seems to primarily have been a family matter that cleared itself up. So your real contention is that Jake Thomas makes MU a better team than Vander Blue does.
Your comment was still at least 96.77% wrong.
It cleared itself up in 3 days....? LOL...I doubt it.
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It cleared itself up in 3 days....? LOL...I doubt it.
Reading is your friend. As someone posted recently, Juan announced he was leaving to be closer to his sick grandfather. After talking to his family and the coaching staff, he reconsidered and decided to stay.
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Reading is your friend. As someone posted recently, Juan announced he was leaving to be closer to his sick grandfather. After talking to his family and the coaching staff, he reconsidered and decided to stay.
Yes, but do we know if Vander was the one who made Juan's Grandfather ill?
Until we know that, we don't know anything.
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Reading is your friend. As someone posted recently, Juan announced he was leaving to be closer to his sick grandfather. After talking to his family and the coaching staff, he reconsidered and decided to stay.
Yeah, he's mixing up Jake and Juan. Jake came back because he was given a scholarship due to Vander's departure.
Every post of his makes me snicker.
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Anyone know what is next for Vander?
He's a great talent. If the worst thing he does in his life is be impatient with chasing his dreams, he will have a good life.
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Anyone know what is next for Vander?
He's a great talent. If the worst thing he does in his life is be impatient with chasing his dreams, he will have a good life.
Hopefully, his agent has gotten him on a team in Manila and Vander has already savored the taste of his first Balut...
(http://www.city-data.com/forum/attachments/asia/110233d1366212133-beautiful-filipinas-but-not-your-typical-kristel-moreno-5.jpg)
(http://img1.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire2/02122008/7/e/b/3/7eb317894013b0_full.jpg)
(http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh255/minh9long/Miriam%20Quiambao/mir99.jpg)
(http://www.philippinesplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Beautiful-filipina.jpg)
(http://filipinawomensnetwork.org/Resources/Pictures/Rebecca_Corteza.jpg)
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Bummer, but going forward, he should sit in a gym for 12 hours a day working on nothing but getting his elbow underneath his hand on his jump shot. His J is flat an inconsistent. If he becomes even an average shooter, he has a spot on an NBA team for sure.
On the other hand, this is not a new issue. His unwillingness to change his jumper may speak volumes about his attitude (aka, I know better than everyone else...like his decision to jump into the draft).
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On the other hand, this is not a new issue. His unwillingness to change his jumper may speak volumes about his attitude (aka, I know better than everyone else...like his decision to jump into the draft).
His jumper changed with noticeable results. Granted it still can be improved, but to imply that he didn't work on it is completely false.
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Bummer, but going forward, he should sit in a gym for 12 hours a day working on nothing but getting his elbow underneath his hand on his jump shot. His J is flat an inconsistent. If he becomes even an average shooter, he has a spot on an NBA team for sure.
On the other hand, this is not a new issue. His unwillingness to change his jumper may speak volumes about his attitude (aka, I know better than everyone else...like his decision to jump into the draft).
If you didn't notice the changes in Vander's jumper from his freshman to junior years, you must have just been watching replays of Buzz's first Sweet 16 season.
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He may have shot better, but I didn't see a meaningful change in his shot mechanics.
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He may have shot better, but I didn't see a meaningful change in his shot mechanics.
It went from a twisting push to more straight up and down with a wrist snap. Watch his midrange form instead of three point form. He clearly worked on that HARD, and without a doubt is working on extending that form to further distance.
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He may have shot better, but I didn't see a meaningful change in his shot mechanics.
He definitely improved his footwork, his timing and his elevation. There's a school of thought out there that you don't mess with it too much at once anyway. That you build in new concepts gradually.
The fact that he improved his 3pt%, his FT%, and his overall FG% all three years shows that he worked on it.
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He definitely improved his footwork, his timing and his elevation. There's a school of thought out there that you don't mess with it too much at once anyway. That you build in new concepts gradually.
The fact that he improved his 3pt%, his FT%, and his overall FG% all three years shows that he worked on it.
This can all be explained by increased confidence, which was much more obvious than anything you mention. Besides, improved "elevation" has little to do with improved shooting. In his case, I believe it's a detriment. Not sure what you mean by "timing." Perhaps you reference his rhythm? Rhythm is perhaps the most important aspect of shooting a basketball.
He's still a poor shooter and probably always will be.
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He may have shot better, but I didn't see a meaningful change in his shot mechanics.
Then you weren't looking.
As Sultan alluded to, altering a player's shooting mechanics is a process. You can't change everything all at once. Van likely had his same shooting form for at least 5-6 years by the time he arrived at MU. That's a long run of bad mechanics to change. Taking on that task would almost be comparable to teaching a player to shoot with his opposite hand.
Changing a shot also involves a lot of thinking to make sure you're getting things right and creating muscle memory. Pure shooters don't think, they just fire. It's like a golf swing - the less thinking you do, the better.
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I don't question that he didn't work on his shooting, but he has never revamped his shot. He did improve FG% from 1st year, but it really couldn't have gone much lower. I'm a Vander bull. I just wish he would change his shot mechanics. He won't be (or at least hasn't yet shown that he can be) a good, consistent shooter w/ his elbow out to the side like that. Just sayin'......
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Read this article about Stephen Curry....Vander needs to have the same "Ctrl-Alt-Del" on his shot that Curry did.....
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20130402/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-three-point-shooting/
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This can all be explained by increased confidence, which was much more obvious than anything you mention. Besides, improved "elevation" has little to do with improved shooting. In his case, I believe it's a detriment. Not sure what you mean by "timing." Perhaps you reference his rhythm? Rhythm is perhaps the most important aspect of shooting a basketball.
He's still a poor shooter and probably always will be.
Yes, rhythm is better than timing. And when I said "elevation" I meant more consistent elevation. In fact I think his elevation was too high as a freshman.
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Read this article about Stephen Curry....Vander needs to have the same "Ctrl-Alt-Del" on his shot that Curry did.....
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20130402/stephen-curry-golden-state-warriors-three-point-shooting/
Yeah back when a sophomore in high school (as Curry was) that would have done him good.
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I don't question that he didn't work on his shooting, but he has never revamped his shot. He did improve FG% from 1st year, but it really couldn't have gone much lower. I'm a Vander bull. I just wish he would change his shot mechanics. He won't be (or at least hasn't yet shown that he can be) a good, consistent shooter w/ his elbow out to the side like that. Just sayin'......
I will admit I don't have the coaching background of some posters on these sites. I'm not by any means a strategy guru or someone that spent a lot of time in basketball clinics. But as I said (and Merrits, and Sultan), if you didn't notice the changes in Vander's shot, you weren't watching.
One of the things he improved was his release point. I think that is a big part of the timing Sultan was referring to. When Vander first got here, he had an inconsistent release point. The best shooters tend to release when they get to the apex of their jump. As a junior, Vander was far more consistent in his release point.
Another issue Vander seemed to have was simply too much motion in his shot. He had a scissor kick that he did every time he took a shot from any semblance of range. He still slid into that tendency from time to time last year, but for the most part, that extra motion in his shot was muted incredibly.
People are acting like his shot just magically got better because he asked Oz for his confidence. Are you freaking kidding me? As though he just said "The ball will go in because I believe it will". Around the rim, Vander softened his touch, which led to those layups that were so often close misses as a freshman and sophomore to the dagger makes against St. John's and Davidson. From range, he retooled his release point and his excess body motion to improve his shooting percentage.
Again, I'm not a coach, but you would have to be blind or simply listening to the radio to not have seen the changes Vander made to his shot both from range and in close. PRN, BMC, you really think it was just him taking extra shots and gaining confidence? That's a pair of the silliest assertions, especially from people I assume are actually watching the games, I've ever heard.
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Again, I don't disagree that he didn't work on it or that some things changed. But, he never has done a major overhaul, which I think is what he needs to do to become a good enough shooter to make an NBA roster.
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Again, I don't disagree that he didn't work on it or that some things changed. But, he never has done a major overhaul, which I think is what he needs to do to become a good enough shooter to make an NBA roster.
If you look at his freshman year jumper compared to his jumper last season, there has been a significant overhaul. No one is going to go from Joakim Noah's form to Ray Allen's form, but there have been a lot of changes. He jumps straight up, he doesn't jump as high, he squares his shoulders, a dribble gets him into rhythm, his hand/arm motion goes up as opposed to out, his shot begins higher up, he keeps his elbow in. Sure, his shot still isn't very pretty. He still has a tendency to drift and he also turns his lower body occasionally, but his mechanics are much better than they were 3 years ago.
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I will admit I don't have the coaching background of some posters on these sites. I'm not by any means a strategy guru or someone that spent a lot of time in basketball clinics. But as I said (and Merrits, and Sultan), if you didn't notice the changes in Vander's shot, you weren't watching.
One of the things he improved was his release point. I think that is a big part of the timing Sultan was referring to. When Vander first got here, he had an inconsistent release point. The best shooters tend to release when they get to the apex of their jump. As a junior, Vander was far more consistent in his release point.
Another issue Vander seemed to have was simply too much motion in his shot. He had a scissor kick that he did every time he took a shot from any semblance of range. He still slid into that tendency from time to time last year, but for the most part, that extra motion in his shot was muted incredibly.
People are acting like his shot just magically got better because he asked Oz for his confidence. Are you freaking kidding me? As though he just said "The ball will go in because I believe it will". Around the rim, Vander softened his touch, which led to those layups that were so often close misses as a freshman and sophomore to the dagger makes against St. John's and Davidson. From range, he retooled his release point and his excess body motion to improve his shooting percentage.
Again, I'm not a coach, but you would have to be blind or simply listening to the radio to not have seen the changes Vander made to his shot both from range and in close. PRN, BMC, you really think it was just him taking extra shots and gaining confidence? That's a pair of the silliest assertions, especially from people I assume are actually watching the games, I've ever heard.
+1. Summed it up nicely
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"Jane, you ignorant slut...."
Again, I never said that he didn't change/work on things. You are creating an argument out of something I never said. Simmer down.
This still doesn't change the fact that he will be a below average shooter until he improves his mechanics by getting his elbow under his shooting hand. No good shooters have that flip release.
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"Jane, you ignorant slut...."
Again, I never said that he didn't change/work on things.
Uhh....yeah you did. You claimed he had an "unwillingness to change his jumper."
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"Jane, you ignorant slut...."
Again, I never said that he didn't change/work on things. You are creating an argument out of something I never said. Simmer down.
This still doesn't change the fact that he will be a below average shooter until he improves his mechanics by getting his elbow under his shooting hand. No good shooters have that flip release.
Just wait until you see JJJ. He has a very awkward release and is very good.
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"Jane, you ignorant slut...."
Again, I never said that he didn't change/work on things. You are creating an argument out of something I never said. Simmer down.
This still doesn't change the fact that he will be a below average shooter until he improves his mechanics by getting his elbow under his shooting hand. No good shooters have that flip release.
Someone tell this guy that his elbow is too far out! He'll never be an above average shooter with that form!
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/780/463/108587331_crop_650x440.jpg?1299733956)
For comparison...
(http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/003/173/221/hi-res-7212244_display_image.jpg?1369225810)
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good point all. Vander is a great shooter & should change nothing. wow
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good point all. Vander is a great shooter & should change nothing. wow
Don't sulk. We all get a teaching lesson from time to time.
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What does his shooting percentage show for the last 3 years? I believe they went up big last year. That could mean he did in fact tweak it.
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good point all. Vander is a great shooter & should change nothing. wow
Oh brother...
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What does his shooting percentage show for the last 3 years? I believe they went up big last year. That could mean he did in fact tweak it.
How dare you let logic get in the way of a good narrative?!?!?
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I've enjoyed the fun back-and-forth, guys. Thanks.
And you know what? None of it changes Vander's situation: He isn't good enough to play in the NBA.
A little too short and slight, not quite good enough shot or handle, just good enough to be considered, not quite good enough to make the roster of the league's worst team.
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How dare you let logic get in the way of a good narrative?!?!?
Except it's not logical. His shooting percentage went up because his shot selection improved with increased confidence (strength and FT%) and maturity. His shooting ability didn't magically materialize. He's still a very poor shooter. Why even argue that point? This is the same argument people used to make about James. Some people are just crappy shooters.
I happen to think Juan is a good shooter and expect his shooting percentages to rise. Not because of any "tweaks" but because he's an upper classman, has more confidence and his role has changed a bit.
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Except it's not logical. His shooting percentage went up because his shot selection improved with increased confidence (strength and FT%) and maturity. His shooting ability didn't magically materialize. He's still a very poor shooter. Why even argue that point? This is the same argument people used to make about James. Some people are just crappy shooters.
Yeah, that's right, you like the Oz argument. He just went to the Wizard and magically found his shot. Because that's logical ::)
As has been stated by numerous people on here, if you didn't notice the differences in Vander's shot, you simply weren't paying attention.
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Except it's not logical. His shooting percentage went up because his shot selection improved with increased confidence (strength and FT%) and maturity. His shooting ability didn't magically materialize. He's still a very poor shooter. Why even argue that point? This is the same argument people used to make about James. Some people are just crappy shooters.
I happen to think Juan is a good shooter and expect his shooting percentages to rise. Not because of any "tweaks" but because he's an upper classman, has more confidence and his role has changed a bit.
His shooting improved during his time at MU. That doesn't mean that he became a lights out shooter. That doesn't even mean that he became a good shooter. That means that his shooting, both form and results, got better.
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Honest question, PRN, what do you think Buzz and the rest of the staff get paid for? Are they just recruiters and babysitters? You seem to think these guys will get better simply on the basis of getting older. That Vander becoming a Big East POY candidate was simply a natural process of maturation. So if the coaching had nothing to do with it, as you infer with your throwaway "confidence" comments, why pay these guys? Clearly any coach would have made Jae Crowder an All-American, turned Chris Otule into a bonafide starting center, or Vander into a star. Why not pay some schmuck $100k? Buzz is clearly overpaid.
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Hate to hijack this thread back to current events... twittertracker...
@gonzalobedia: @AdamZagoria Kevin Parrom (Arizona) signed with Cherkasy (Ukraine) and Vander Blue (Marquette) signed with Maccabi Rishon (Israel)
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Hate to hijack this thread back to current events... twittertracker...
@gonzalobedia: @AdamZagoria Kevin Parrom (Arizona) signed with Cherkasy (Ukraine) and Vander Blue (Marquette) signed with Maccabi Rishon (Israel)
Mark your calendars....January 12, 2014....Vander Blue v. Niv Berkowitz.
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Hate to hijack this thread back to current events... twittertracker...
@gonzalobedia: @AdamZagoria Kevin Parrom (Arizona) signed with Cherkasy (Ukraine) and Vander Blue (Marquette) signed with Maccabi Rishon (Israel)
Going to Israel, that is awesome, maybe he will get some religious training over there and convert to Judaism, as you know Jesus was a jew.
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Going to Israel, that is awesome, maybe he will get some religious training over there and convert to Judaism, as you know Jesus was a jew.
To put a bow on this, did you know the word Jew is not allowed in Scrabble? Oy vei
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Hate to hijack this thread back to current events... twittertracker...
@gonzalobedia: @AdamZagoria Kevin Parrom (Arizona) signed with Cherkasy (Ukraine) and Vander Blue (Marquette) signed with Maccabi Rishon (Israel)
Looks like everyone was wrong saying he was going to end up in Europe
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To put a bow on this, did you know the word Jew is not allowed in Scrabble? Oy vei
OY vei, is right, never new that, why? Jew is not considered a word, news to me. I am going to have to ban Scrabble from my house.
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OY vei, is right, never new that, why? Jew is not considered a word, news to me. I am going to have to ban Scrabble from my house.
http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/124927/why-jew-and-goy-are-not-scrabble-words
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I think it is considered a proper noun. Jewish and Christian not allowed either.
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To put a bow on this, did you know the word Jew is not allowed in Scrabble? Oy vei
It's not allowed in Words with Friends, either. But Nazi is. Go figure.
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It's not allowed in Words with Friends, either. But Nazi is. Go figure.
Yeah, that's how I found out. I don't play Scrabble, but will play Words With Friends. When I tried entering the word, it wouldn't allow it. WTF. So I did a little research, and found the history behind it. All it takes is one person.
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Hate to hijack this thread back to current events... twittertracker...
@gonzalobedia: @AdamZagoria Kevin Parrom (Arizona) signed with Cherkasy (Ukraine) and Vander Blue (Marquette) signed with Maccabi Rishon (Israel)
Hope he gets paid, gets to play a lot of point, and is able to extend his range. Buycks should be his mentor.
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His shooting improved during his time at MU. That doesn't mean that he became a lights out shooter. That doesn't even mean that he became a good shooter. That means that his shooting, both form and results, got better.
He was one of the best midrange shooters in college hoops last year. Not just above average, one of the absolute best. Paint Touches had an excellent breakdown of where he stood in that regard. Does only 3 point shooting count when considering whether or not someone is a good shooter?
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Hope he gets paid, gets to play a lot of point, and is able to extend his range. Buycks should be his mentor.
The Israeli Super League is one of the top leagues abroad, up there with (and probably just behind) Spain, France, and Greece. Coming out of an NBA roster, Vander will be paid pretty well and he'll have good competition. The list of players transitioning from the league back to the NBA is fairly substantial.
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The Israeli Super League is one of the top leagues abroad, up there with (and probably just behind) Spain, France, and Greece. Coming out of an NBA roster, Vander will be paid pretty well and he'll have good competition. The list of players transitioning from the league back to the NBA is fairly substantial.
Thanks, good info
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He was one of the best midrange shooters in college hoops last year. Not just above average, one of the absolute best. Paint Touches had an excellent breakdown of where he stood in that regard. Does only 3 point shooting count when considering whether or not someone is a good shooter?
I didn't phrase that very well. I meant that an improvement in one's shot doesn't necessarily mean that player became a good shooter. It simply means there was improvement. Wasn't supposed to be specific to Blue, but it read that way.
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Honest question, PRN, what do you think Buzz and the rest of the staff get paid for? Are they just recruiters and babysitters? You seem to think these guys will get better simply on the basis of getting older. That Vander becoming a Big East POY candidate was simply a natural process of maturation. So if the coaching had nothing to do with it, as you infer with your throwaway "confidence" comments, why pay these guys? Clearly any coach would have made Jae Crowder an All-American, turned Chris Otule into a bonafide starting center, or Vander into a star. Why not pay some schmuck $100k? Buzz is clearly overpaid.
Yes, I think Vander becoming a BE POY candidates was a process of maturation. It certainly wasn't about becoming a better shooter.
Not sure where your Buzz comments come from. Are you suggesting he's some kind of shooting coach? He's paid to recruit, to reflect well on the university and field a good basketball team. When you recruit talented players...like Vander and Jae...his job is to push them to become the players he believes they can be. That involves in instilling confidence (through repetitions and strength), maturity (basketball-wise and life-wise) and improving their knowledge of what's going on in the team framework. Jae and Vander were good players when they got here, especially Jae. Their improvement is on them, not Buzz. He (and MU) simply gave them the opportunity and atmosphere to succeed.
Incidentally, I love Chris, but anybody his size who can't become a bonafide starting center after 6 years is in the wrong sport. Again, maturity, confidence and hard work. Buzz didn't make him what he is. Chris had it in him all along. Buzz, and the fact that he's in a division 1 basketball program, brought it out.
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Yes, I think Vander becoming a BE POY candidates was a process of maturation. It certainly wasn't about becoming a better shooter.
Not sure where your Buzz comments come from. Are you suggesting he's some kind of shooting coach? He's paid to recruit, to reflect well on the university and field a good basketball team. When you recruit talented players...like Vander and Jae...his job is to push them to become the players he believes they can be. That involves in instilling confidence (through repetitions and strength), maturity (basketball-wise and life-wise) and improving their knowledge of what's going on in the team framework. Jae and Vander were good players when they got here, especially Jae. Their improvement is on them, not Buzz. He (and MU) simply gave them the opportunity and atmosphere to succeed.
Incidentally, I love Chris, but anybody his size who can't become a bonafide starting center after 6 years is in the wrong sport. Again, maturity, confidence and hard work. Buzz didn't make him what he is. Chris had it in him all along. Buzz, and the fact that he's in a division 1 basketball program, brought it out.
Should this post be in teal?
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Looks like everyone was wrong saying he was going to end up in Europe
Why is this in teal? He isn't going to Europe.
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Does anyone have any infor yet on his contract in Israel?
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Why even argue that point?
Rican
This is your most salient point. Some people here have a pathological need to be "right," despite the fact they are offering nothing more than opinion. Shallow lives don't require much water to fill the pond.
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Mark your calendars....January 12, 2014....Vander Blue v. Niv Berkowitz.
November 10 and January 26 - Vander Blue v David Cubillan
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Yes, I think Vander becoming a BE POY candidates was a process of maturation. It certainly wasn't about becoming a better shooter.
Not sure where your Buzz comments come from. Are you suggesting he's some kind of shooting coach? He's paid to recruit, to reflect well on the university and field a good basketball team. When you recruit talented players...like Vander and Jae...his job is to push them to become the players he believes they can be. That involves in instilling confidence (through repetitions, strength AND TECHNIQUE), maturity (basketball-wise and life-wise) and improving their knowledge of what's going on in the team framework. Jae and Vander were good players when they got here, especially Jae. Their improvement is on them, not Buzz. He (and MU) simply gave them the opportunity and atmosphere to succeed.
Incidentally, I love Chris, but anybody his size who can't become a bonafide starting center after 6 years is in the wrong sport. Again, maturity, confidence and hard work. Buzz didn't make him what he is. Chris had it in him all along. Buzz, and the fact that he's in a division 1 basketball program, brought it out.
Buzz is a detail oriented guy. We know that.
They may not kill hours of practice time with it, but the coaches are certainly giving guys specific drills for individual work-outs, technique and skill building. That's the entire point of individual workouts. To work of weaknesses and refine skills/technique.
It's part of player development. In theory, every player is going to be a better shooter as a senior for the reasons PRN listed, and because their skills and technique have been refined.
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Except it's not logical. His shooting percentage went up because his shot selection improved...
I mostly agree with you, but I sure as heck don;t think Vander Blue's shot selection improved as he got older. When he was a freshman, he didn't shoot unless he had a layup (contested or otherwise) or was so wide open that it was ridiculous not to shoot. And he still missed them like crazy.
I agree that he is nothing like a good shooter, but he was a miserable shooter as a freshman, because he took very high percentage shots and made a very low percentage of them. So going from miserable to OK is improvement. Now, I don't watch games with an eye on shooting form, so I can't say WHY he was a better shooter, just that he was. His improvement has to be some combination of hard work and technique. This thread has devolved into an argument over the relative precentages of hard work and technique. I guess the theory is that if it was mostly due to hard work, then there is a ceiling on what his shooting percetange would be unless he overhauls his technique.
My guess is that he has always worked really hard and doesn't have it in him to be a great shooter or it would have manifested itself by now. Just like Steve Novak doesn't have it in him to be a great leaper. So the question is can he improve his shooting enough to be a viable NBA guy? I doubt it, but it is not impossible.
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Yes, I think Vander becoming a BE POY candidates was a process of maturation. It certainly wasn't about becoming a better shooter.
Not sure where your Buzz comments come from. Are you suggesting he's some kind of shooting coach? He's paid to recruit, to reflect well on the university and field a good basketball team. When you recruit talented players...like Vander and Jae...his job is to push them to become the players he believes they can be. That involves in instilling confidence (through repetitions and strength), maturity (basketball-wise and life-wise) and improving their knowledge of what's going on in the team framework. Jae and Vander were good players when they got here, especially Jae. Their improvement is on them, not Buzz. He (and MU) simply gave them the opportunity and atmosphere to succeed.
Incidentally, I love Chris, but anybody his size who can't become a bonafide starting center after 6 years is in the wrong sport. Again, maturity, confidence and hard work. Buzz didn't make him what he is. Chris had it in him all along. Buzz, and the fact that he's in a division 1 basketball program, brought it out.
(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/NovaReon/notsureifserious.jpg)
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http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/124927/why-jew-and-goy-are-not-scrabble-words
Chico, did not earlier have a chance to read the blog sent, very interesting. Thanks. Of course, goy, is a yiddish term for non-jew
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To put a bow on this, did you know the word Jew is not allowed in Scrabble? Oy vei
How the hell did you know this? That has to be one of the most obscure nuggets...