How much do freshmen play for Buzz Williams?Everyone knows Buzz Williams doesn't play freshmen. It's been obvious to any observer the past five years and became even more so in a study by Dan Hammer on RealGM showing that Buzz plays freshmen less than any other coach in the country giving them only 8 percent of possible minutes. It's very convincing and [...]<img alt="" border="0" src="http://stats.wordpress.com/b.gif?host=painttouches.com&blog=28348875&post=8985&subd=painttouches&ref=&feed=1" width="1" height="1" />
Source: How much do freshmen play for Buzz Williams? (http://painttouches.com/2013/10/18/how-much-do-freshman-play-for-buzz-williams/)
Simply outstanding empirical analysis.
Quote from: jsglow on October 18, 2013, 11:20:32 AM
Simply outstanding empirical analysis.
Score another for the reality crowd. Minus one for those concerned with perception. And for those who don't think much of Todd's game it's interesting that he played more minutes per game than any true freshman in the Buzz era.
Interesting. I will be interested to see if this holds true this year because we only have one upperclassmen PG
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on October 18, 2013, 11:50:07 AM
Interesting. I will be interested to see if this holds true this year because we only have one upperclassmen PG
I don't think you read Strotty's take down of the report. The author's thesis falls to the scrutiny of Strotty's analysis.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on October 18, 2013, 12:13:26 PM
I don't think you read Strotty's take down of the report. The author's thesis falls to the scrutiny of Strotty's analysis.
It sure seems that way.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on October 18, 2013, 12:13:26 PM
I don't think you read Strotty's take down of the report. The author's thesis falls to the scrutiny of Strotty's analysis.
To be fair, Strotty didn't write that piece, Andrei did.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 18, 2013, 11:35:01 AM
Score another for the reality crowd. Minus one for those concerned with perception. And for those who don't think much of Todd's game it's interesting that he played more minutes per game than any true freshman in the Buzz era.
For those that don't recall, Todd was fantastic as a Frosh. No doubt his lost time last year had a real impact. Sincerely hoping that this year is going well both in the classroom and in the practice gym.
Buzz's first year - 1 freshman, who got hurt (Otule)
Buzz's second year - 3 freshman, 1 hurt (Junior) and 2 who were clearly overmatched (EWill and Mbao) and behind senior Lazar, juniors JFB and Fulce, and soph Otule
Point is, Buzz has only been here 5 years, and 2 of them there are pretty good reasons why the freshman % of minutes was so low. Too small of a sample size in my opinion. Take a look at this again in 5 years after some more stud recruiting classes (and adjusting for injury) and it will look a lot different.
Quote from: Dunk The Ball Eric on October 18, 2013, 01:24:05 PM
Buzz's first year - 1 freshman, who got hurt (Otule)
Buzz's second year - 3 freshman, 1 hurt (Junior) and 2 who were clearly overmatched (EWill and Mbao) and behind senior Lazar, juniors JFB and Fulce, and soph Otule
Point is, Buzz has only been here 5 years, and 2 of them there are pretty good reasons why the freshman % of minutes was so low. Too small of a sample size in my opinion. Take a look at this again in 5 years after some more stud recruiting classes (and adjusting for injury) and it will look a lot different.
The point of the PT article is Buzz is actually number 3 in playing first year new players, not 347. Of course, that number would fall if all teams injuries & mid-season trasnfers were accounted for, but this is some pretty solid mythbusting.
I really dont care who he plays so long as we keep winning.
Quote from: Dunk The Ball Eric on October 18, 2013, 01:24:05 PM
Buzz's first year - 1 freshman, who got hurt (Otule)
Buzz's second year - 3 freshman, 1 hurt (Junior) and 2 who were clearly overmatched (EWill and Mbao) and behind senior Lazar, juniors JFB and Fulce, and soph Otule
Point is, Buzz has only been here 5 years, and 2 of them there are pretty good reasons why the freshman % of minutes was so low. Too small of a sample size in my opinion. Take a look at this again in 5 years after some more stud recruiting classes (and adjusting for injury) and it will look a lot different.
So 5 years isn't enough to judge
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 18, 2013, 03:15:12 PM
So 5 years isn't enough to judge
As I understand the rules, judging is fine. It's fully judging that is problematic.
Quote from: Jay Bee on October 18, 2013, 03:28:09 PM
As I understand the rules, judging is fine. It's fully judging that is problematic.
And multiple judgements.
This Freshman guard class will see some minutes.
Leading in minutes will be Duane followed by Deonte then John.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 18, 2013, 12:40:52 PM
To be fair, Strotty didn't write that piece, Andrei did.
Second time I've done that. Sorry, Andrei!
MU over the past few years has played a pretty tough schedule. Most freshmen get playing time when a win is in the bag. There are not many games that MU has won with 5 minutes to go to give lesser players a chance to play. I suppose the same thing happens to some extent, if you are getting blown out. Playing in close games where every possession matters does not give the opportunity for players outside of the rotation to play.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on October 20, 2013, 11:02:50 AM
This Freshman guard class will see some minutes.
Leading in minutes will be Duane followed by Deonte then John.
Exactly....as one poster here so aptly mentioned the college game is a guard orientated game so they will see minutes.
For some of them they will see more then they actually wanted to because of the proverbial freshman wall just as there is said to be a rookie wall in the NBA.
Big Time College intensity and pace and speed and handling the effort and the shuffling in and out that Buzz puts on his guards is a whole lot different than high school or Juco level.
They'll get some serious burn here. It is those tweeners and switchables who struggle to accept the role or the demand of playing out of position at times that cause many of them to feel like they can't cope and end up running.
But versatility once you get to be about 6'6 is key and you better learn to play wherever you need to and come out of that shell and comfort zone if you want to get on the floor in college or if you are good enough at it to go to the next level.
Most of the MU guards to not have that selfish '"my game" I wanna play "my game" attitude in them were they are not flexible to take a role and roll with what is needed as a freshman or sophomore to help the team in what it needs to get to where they want to go that will benefit the whole program down the road.
But We'll see...
Quote from: jsglow on October 18, 2013, 12:48:08 PM
For those that don't recall, Todd was fantastic as a Frosh.
Well, you got that half right.
Mayo was very good through the Providence game, which was 7 games into the Big East schedule.
Over the next 12 games, which including the first-round BET loss, he shot 30%, including 2-for-19 from behind the arc, he had more TOs than assists and he wasn't much of a rebounder. He lost confidence in himself and Buzz lost confidence in him, resulting in fewer minutes. The only reason he played much at all down the stretch is that he brought it on D most games and Vander also was bad.
Mayo actually played quite well in the Sweet 16 run that postseason, leading many to think the bad 6-week stretch was an aberration. Then came last season and all the problems.
Put it all together and Mayo shot 42% as a frosh, had more TOs than assists, wasn't much help on the boards and disappeared during the meat of the Big East schedule. If that is your definition of "fantastic," you and I define it differently.
Obviously, Mayo can be better than he was last season. But he's still very much a mystery. I look at anything we get out of Mayo as a major bonus. I'd certainly take a duplicate of the first half of his "fantastic" freshman season.
Based on Buzz comments at Madness, I'd say JJJ is in line for a lot of minutes, but Wilson may have some work to do. Obviously, just a guess.
Had Maymon stayed, he would have probably been the most played freshman for Buzz. Averaged 16 mins a game in his short span here.
Quote from: Stronghold on October 21, 2013, 12:21:55 PM
Had Maymon stayed, he would have probably been the most played freshman for Buzz. Averaged 16 mins a game in his short span here.
That is a really good point. Especially his last game against UW where he played 22 minutes. I remember leaving the Kohl Center and thinking "man, he is gonna be good."
Quote from: jsglow on October 18, 2013, 11:20:32 AM
Simply outstanding empirical analysis.
Actaully there's a major flaw in the analysis.
Its one thing to adjust MU for things like injury and mid-season transfers.
But unless one adjusts for every other team using the same frosh injury and transfer factors, you can't claim that MU moved up, fell, or stayed the same in comparision to with Louisville, MSU or Syracuse (or any other team on the list for that matter).
Its useful analysis on a standalone basis--but falls apart when used in a comparision.