I know many around here disagree. But I think VCU should be the next addition to the Big East. The ESPN headline today was a Dana O'Neil article on VCU's rise to prominence. It was better than I usually expect from O'Neil and she made a lot of comparisons to Gonzaga's rise to mid major power. This, more than anything else is why I want VCU in the Big East. They are only starting to scratch the surface of their potential. If we can get them while they are still taking off...it can only be good for our conference.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9742926/vcu-stands-team-beat-atlantic-10
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 30, 2013, 07:48:01 PM
I know many around here disagree. But I think VCU should be the next addition to the Big East. The ESPN headline today was a Dana O'Neil article on VCU's rise to prominence. It was better than I usually expect from O'Neil and she made a lot of comparisons to Gonzaga's rise to mid major power. This, more than anything else is why I want VCU in the Big East. They are only starting to scratch the surface of their potential. If we can get them while they are still taking off...it can only be good for our conference.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9742926/vcu-stands-team-beat-atlantic-10
A small arena is the biggest concern with them, I think, but if they keep up with there current momentum, they'd be a great addition. The revenue bump from joining the Big East could only help with a new arena/arena expansion and with keeping Shaka Smart around.
Key question: Can the Big East get them to commit to not going the Division I FBS football route? What's the point in adding them, if they are going to go conference shopping even 15-20 years down the road?
How confident are you about Butler now that Stevens has left? I'm more than a bit concerned about their future and I think they're at risk of becoming a perennial bottom dweller. VCU is in a similar boat with Shaka and doesn't have the institutional similarities that Butler shares with the Catholic 7.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 30, 2013, 08:00:09 PM
Key question: Can the Big East get them to commit to not going the Division I FBS football route? What's the point in adding them, if they are going to go conference shopping even 15-20 years down the road?
They don't even have a football team at this point. The amount of $ it takes to start a football team from scratch is astronomical. And today's economic landscape is not friendly to non-bcs D1 football schools. Its more profitable to be the best D2 or FCS team than it is to be a scrub FBS team.
So I'm not really worried about it. Over time I think schools will realize that being basketball only is more profitable than having a terrible football team (e.g. UCONN/Memphis/etc)
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on September 30, 2013, 08:02:33 PM
How confident are you about Butler now that Stevens has left? I'm more than a bit concerned about their future and I think they're at risk of becoming a perennial bottom dweller. VCU is in a similar boat with Shaka and doesn't have the institutional similarities that Butler shares with the Catholic 7.
I'm pretty confident about Butler. Yes, Stevens was an exceptional coach. But, remember he wasn't a fortunate outside hire, he came up through the Butler system, like a number of his predecessors who were quite accomplished, as well. For
at least as long as Barry Collier remains as AD at Butler, I am confident that they will continue to have success.
Current AD says no to football. But what about when he leaves? There is already a student lobby group trying to get football on campus.
VCU is a public school with appx 30k students who mostly stay local upon graduation. Couple that with the fact that its located in a decent-sized metro area that does not have a pro team and what do you get? FBS football.
Don't think it can happen? Think schools have learned that they will never be the SEC? Well ODU just added FBS football. UNC-Charlotte just added FBS football.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on September 30, 2013, 08:26:13 PM
Current AD says no to football. But what about when he leaves? There is already a student lobby group trying to get football on campus.
VCU is a public school with appx 30k students who mostly stay local upon graduation. Couple that with the fact that its located in a decent-sized metro area that does not have a pro team and what do you get? FBS football.
Don't think it can happen? Think schools have learned that they will never be the SEC? Well ODU just added FBS football. UNC-Charlotte just added FBS football.
Exactly, no current movement in that direction, but if they wanted to go that way the two programs mentioned would be ones they could look to grow their program in combination with.
All I'm saying is let the Big East get a commitment from VCU not to pursue FBS football as part of the sign on. If they're not going that way, it shouldn't be a problem.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on September 30, 2013, 08:02:33 PM
How confident are you about Butler now that Stevens has left? I'm more than a bit concerned about their future and I think they're at risk of becoming a perennial bottom dweller. VCU is in a similar boat with Shaka and doesn't have the institutional similarities that Butler shares with the Catholic 7.
It's not easy to predict the future, but Stevens was just the latest in a long line of very successful coaches at Butler, following: Todd Lickliter, Thad Matta and Barry Collier.
Those three, along with Stevens, have proven that Butler can be a consistent winner. Now that the school is in the Big East, its profile should only improve. That doesn't mean there can't be a lull as the new guy rebuilds, just as there occasionally has been at MU.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on September 30, 2013, 08:02:33 PM
How confident are you about Butler now that Stevens has left? I'm more than a bit concerned about their future and I think they're at risk of becoming a perennial bottom dweller. VCU is in a similar boat with Shaka and doesn't have the institutional similarities that Butler shares with the Catholic 7.
You havn't followed Butler over the years.
Quote from: bradley center bat on September 30, 2013, 09:02:37 PM
You havn't followed Butler over the years.
Butleri is at a crucial point now. Losing Stevens and the player losses could be a real hurdle for Butler. It is a concern.
Quote from: MU82 on September 30, 2013, 09:00:20 PM
It's not easy to predict the future, but Stevens was just the latest in a long line of very successful coaches at Butler, following: Todd Lickliter, Thad Matta and Barry Collier.
Those three, along with Stevens, have proven that Butler can be a consistent winner. Now that the school is in the Big East, its profile should only improve. That doesn't mean there can't be a lull as the new guy rebuilds, just as there occasionally has been at MU.
Stevens is just the latest in a long line of very successful coaches at Butler? Really? I think he's a little bit more than that. In 18 years under Collier, Matta and Lickliter, Butler went to 7 NCAA tournaments and won 6 tourney games. Not bad. Solid even, but Stevens was a superstar, with 5 NCAA appearances in 6 years and 12 tourney wins. He made the FINAL GAME twice. They'll probably be solid again but the golden era is almost surely over.
Quote from: bradley center bat on September 30, 2013, 09:02:37 PM
You havn't followed Butler over the years.
No I haven't because there was no reason to prior to the Stevens-era. They have a tough road to hoe without their golden boy. They have to compete in-state with Indiana, Purdue, and Notre Dame for recruits. They are almost certainly going to be in the bottom-third of the conference for the first two seasons.
I'm rooting for them to be a competitive program, but I am definitely nervous about the unknowns around their situation. But I guess if Seton Hall is stepping up their game, then there is room for a new doormat.
Quote from: Nukem2 on September 30, 2013, 09:22:37 PM
Butleri is at a crucial point now. Losing Stevens and the player losses could be a real hurdle for Butler. It is a concern.
Player losses??
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 30, 2013, 09:44:21 PM
Stevens is just the latest in a long line of very successful coaches at Butler? Really? I think he's a little bit more than that. In 18 years under Collier, Matta and Lickliter, Butler went to 7 NCAA tournaments and won 6 tourney games. Not bad. Solid even, but Stevens was a superstar, with 5 NCAA appearances in 6 years and 12 tourney wins. He made the FINAL GAME twice. They'll probably be solid again but the golden era is almost surely over.
And where did Stevens come from? The Celtics' job is the first time he will have coached basketball
anywhere except Butler. Undoubtedly, Stevens was a high point, but he was also a product of the Butler program. His legacy, Butler promoting from within, and the move to the Big East should ensure that the program doesn't sink far.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 30, 2013, 08:06:20 PM
So I'm not really worried about it. Over time I think schools will realize that being basketball only is more profitable than having a terrible football team (e.g. UCONN/Memphis/etc)
That doesn't make sense being that football is by far the most popular sport in this country (high school, college, pro, hell even pop Warner). Even bad teams make money.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 30, 2013, 08:00:09 PM
A small arena is the biggest concern with them, I think, but if they keep up with there current momentum, they'd be a great addition. The revenue bump from joining the Big East could only help with a new arena/arena expansion and with keeping Shaka Smart around.
Key question: Can the Big East get them to commit to not going the Division I FBS football route? What's the point in adding them, if they are going to go conference shopping even 15-20 years down the road?
The size of an arena is about 15th on a list of priorities IMO. Who cares how big their arena is?
And how on earth does anyone know what the landscape of college athletics will be 10-15 years from now? You can't make them sign some sort of binding pledge, and they would never sign one anyway, that prevents them from going FBS.
If VCU joins the BE, and 15 years from now they decide to add football and jump to the AAC, that's fine. 15 years is a LOOONNNGGGG time.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 30, 2013, 10:28:32 PM
And where did Stevens come from? The Celtics' job is the first time he will have coached basketball anywhere except Butler. Undoubtedly, Stevens was a high point, but he was also a product of the Butler program. His legacy, Butler promoting from within, and the move to the Big East should ensure that the program doesn't sink far.
I'm not saying Butler is finished. After this pull back they'll likely be solid again, but the odds against them being what they were under Stevens are very long.
The odds of anyone going to back-to-back championship games is very long.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 30, 2013, 09:44:21 PM
Stevens is just the latest in a long line of very successful coaches at Butler? Really? I think he's a little bit more than that. In 18 years under Collier, Matta and Lickliter, Butler went to 7 NCAA tournaments and won 6 tourney games. Not bad. Solid even, but Stevens was a superstar, with 5 NCAA appearances in 6 years and 12 tourney wins. He made the FINAL GAME twice. They'll probably be solid again but the golden era is almost surely over.
I wasn't trying to sell Stevens short by my use of the word "just." I simply was saying what you repeated: Other coaches have had a nice amount of success there.
Stevens took it to another level. So can another coach. Just as Crean took Marquette to a higher level and the coach that followed him has been even more successful.
Quote from: Litehouse on October 01, 2013, 09:08:11 AM
The odds of anyone going to back-to-back championship games is very long.
True. My point is that any Butler fan who thinks that a.772 winning %, NCAAs 5 of every 6 years, Duke like success in the tournament, etc. is in the cards is dreaming.
Quote from: MU82 on October 01, 2013, 09:25:00 AM
Stevens took it to another level. So can another coach.
No worries, but that's where we disagree. I think the odds against anyone taking Butler up another level are astronomical.
Quote from: MU82 on October 01, 2013, 09:25:00 AM
I wasn't trying to sell Stevens short by my use of the word "just." I simply was saying what you repeated: Other coaches have had a nice amount of success there.
Stevens took it to another level. So can another coach. Just as Crean took Marquette to a higher level and the coach that followed him has been even more successful.
There is no arguing the fact that Stevens is a great coach. However, even if he stayed at Butler he may of never made another final 4. Back to back final fours meant he had players that could perform well in NCAA tourney. There is no guarantee that another group of players can do what they did. All you have to do is look at Florida. A few years ago they won back to back titles and I do not think they been to final four since. I think they even missed the NCAA tournament one of two years since the titles. Same coach, but different players.