Quote from: Aughnanure on September 23, 2013, 01:24:47 PM
Hmmm, I wonder why....
They didn't pick up on them because they didn't come from his mouth. Its Vatican PR covering their ass. Did this after his atheist comments too. Not shocking whatsoever.
No, actually directly from his mouth. I suppose you will accuse me of making stuff up again... ::) I suggest reading what he said Saturday and Sunday...him, his voice, him on the video, his comments, not the Vatican's. The problem is that he made a statement 3 weeks ago that was released in an article last week that a lot news organizations with their tilt went way beyond what he said. It's like when someone listens to the first part of the sentence and then when the "but" comes in, they ignore it. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2013/09/pope-francis-contradicts-himself.html
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2013, 04:30:07 PM
No, actually directly from his mouth. I suppose you will accuse me of making stuff up again... ::) I suggest reading what he said Saturday and Sunday...him, his voice, him on the video, his comments, not the Vatican's. The problem is that he made a statement 3 weeks ago that was released in an article last week that a lot news organizations with their tilt went way beyond what he said. It's like when someone listens to the first part of the sentence and then when the "but" comes in, they ignore it. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2013/09/pope-francis-contradicts-himself.html
I don't care what news outlet reported this... it's absolutely brilliant, and gives me a great deal of hope for the Catholic Church (first time in a while). I'll openly admit, I'm a Francis Fanboy.
Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: "It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church's pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.
"We have to find a new balance," the pope continued, "otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel."
....
"I see the church as a field hospital after battle," Francis said. "It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars. You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2013, 04:30:07 PM
No, actually directly from his mouth. I suppose you will accuse me of making stuff up again... ::) I suggest reading what he said Saturday and Sunday...him, his voice, him on the video, his comments, not the Vatican's. The problem is that he made a statement 3 weeks ago that was released in an article last week that a lot news organizations with their tilt went way beyond what he said. It's like when someone listens to the first part of the sentence and then when the "but" comes in, they ignore it. http://www.patheos.com/blogs/markshea/2013/09/pope-francis-contradicts-himself.html
Okay, I was wrong before. Thought it was something that came out of their spokesperson like with the atheist thing.
But still, nothing in that actually refutes what he originally said. It is still a PR/CYA response to reassure the ideologues that he didn't come out and say abortion was totally okay - cause he didn't.
I don't know why you interpreted the original statement as "abortion is okay." That that was your leap.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on September 23, 2013, 04:56:00 PM
I don't care what news outlet reported this... it's absolutely brilliant, and gives me a great deal of hope for the Catholic Church (first time in a while). I'll openly admit, I'm a Francis Fanboy.
Francis told the interviewer, a fellow Jesuit: "It is not necessary to talk about these issues all the time. The dogmatic and moral teachings of the church are not all equivalent. The church's pastoral ministry cannot be obsessed with the transmission of a disjointed multitude of doctrines to be imposed insistently.
"We have to find a new balance," the pope continued, "otherwise even the moral edifice of the church is likely to fall like a house of cards, losing the freshness and fragrance of the Gospel."
....
"I see the church as a field hospital after battle," Francis said. "It is useless to ask a seriously injured person if he has high cholesterol and about the level of his blood sugars. You have to heal his wounds. Then we can talk about everything else."
I'm a Francis fan myself, but I also believe in the core doctrine of the church. He says a few things last week in very general, high arching terms and people run around like the Catholic church is green lighting abortion, gay marriage, married priests, etc 2 minutes later. Heck, he got a thumbs up from NARAL last week via a digital thank you card on Facebook...it was funny to watch that flip 24 hours later.
It always made me wonder with American Catholics if the goal is to change the church to our liking and our belief system and if they (the church doesn't), we'll just take our ball and go home. Pick and choose what we like and what we follow...this, this, not that, certainly not that, ok...sort of, no way. In the process, is the church just supposed to give-in to its core principles or stick to them?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
I'm a Francis fan myself, but I also believe in the core doctrine of the church. He says a few things last week in very general, high arching terms and people run around like the Catholic church is green lighting abortion, gay marriage, married priests, etc 2 minutes later. Heck, he got a thumbs up from NARAL last week via a digital thank you card on Facebook...it was funny to watch that flip 24 hours later.
It always made me wonder with American Catholics if the goal is to change the church to our liking and our belief system and if they (the church doesn't), we'll just take our ball and go home. Pick and choose what we like and what we follow...this, this, not that, certainly not that, ok...sort of, no way. In the process, is the church just supposed to give-in to its core principles or stick to them?
Again, I think people are more excited about approach than anything else.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on September 23, 2013, 04:56:00 PM
I don't care what news outlet reported this... it's absolutely brilliant, and gives me a great deal of hope for the Catholic Church (first time in a while). I'll openly admit, I'm a Francis Fanboy.
Five years to decide if a guy can lead 5 guys on the basketball court, five minutes to decide if a guy can lead millions to salvation. Basketball is very complicated, I guess.
head hurts
I am rapidly becoming a big Francis fan as well. Like the direction things are going and renewing my excitement in regards to Catholic faith.
Quote from: Goose on September 23, 2013, 08:41:39 PM
I am rapidly becoming a big Francis fan as well. Like the direction things are going and renewing my excitement in regards to Catholic faith.
I agree, Goose.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 23, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
I'm a Francis fan myself, but I also believe in the core doctrine of the church. He says a few things last week in very general, high arching terms and people run around like the Catholic church is green lighting abortion, gay marriage, married priests, etc 2 minutes later. Heck, he got a thumbs up from NARAL last week via a digital thank you card on Facebook...it was funny to watch that flip 24 hours later.
It always made me wonder with American Catholics if the goal is to change the church to our liking and our belief system and if they (the church doesn't), we'll just take our ball and go home. Pick and choose what we like and what we follow...this, this, not that, certainly not that, ok...sort of, no way. In the process, is the church just supposed to give-in to its core principles or stick to them?
This isn't a new phenomenon. Catholics have been picking and choosing what to believe in the bible since day 1. The people that stick to the bible's actual principles and writings are absolute lunatics. To say that it's time to stop picking and choosing when it comes to gay marriage and abortion is an arbitrary cut-off.
It's all lunacy if you ask me, it's very clear that the bible's word is not infallible or that of God or Jesus if they were to actually exist (see: 475 contractions within the bible http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html, or the 455 contradictions to science and history http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/science/long.html)
SO instead of arbitrarily identifying marriage as something exclusive, why don't you do as jesus may have taught and be inclusive when it comes to love that doesn't hurt anyone?
In before the lock