http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9665796/syracuse-georgetown-working-10-year-proposal-extend-college-basketball-rivalry (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9665796/syracuse-georgetown-working-10-year-proposal-extend-college-basketball-rivalry)
It would be great if we could sign some kind of similar agreement with ND.
I'd prefer Louisville.
So does Boeheim want 5 at the Carrier Dome and 5 at MSG?
This gives me some hope of a similar set-up with Notre Dame. I'd love to see a regular series with an ACC team because it gives us a shot of getting on ESPN a little, and while I love the idea of being the flagship program of FS1, I don't want us to be forgotten by the four-letter network. As good as the Wisconsin series is, them relegating it to the BTN every time it's in Madison is ridiculous. Might as well put us on the cooking channel for all the national eyes that will attract.
Quote from: chapman on September 13, 2013, 07:24:41 AM
So does Boeheim want 5 at the Carrier Dome and 5 at MSG?
That isn't the impression I got.
It looked like either a home and home split between DC and Syracuse or just doing a neutral site at the Garden.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 09:39:56 AM
That isn't the impression I got.
It looked like either a home and home split between DC and Syracuse or just doing a neutral site at the Garden.
The MSG would not be a true neutral site...
If Boeheim keeps coaching for the whole 10 year run of the contract, that'll have a nice ancillary effect on MU's RPI.
Quote from: Nukem2 on September 13, 2013, 10:04:34 AM
The MSG would not be a true neutral site...
Disagree. NYC is full of Georgetown grads, the heart of Big East territory, and an Acela high speed train ride from DC.
Louisville would help our RPI more for sure. But I just love beating the Irish. The rivarly doesn't get much play nationally, but if we signed some sort of long term deal, I beat we could blow it up a little more.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 10:30:58 AM
Disagree. NYC is full of Georgetown grads and is the heart of Big East territory.
True, but have you ever been to the Big East Tournament? It is wall to wall orange every year. Not a neutral site game at all.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 13, 2013, 10:32:53 AM
True, but have you ever been to the Big East Tournament? It is wall to wall orange every year. Not a neutral site game at all.
Just because SU fans travel better than Georgetown doesn't mean its not a neutral game
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 10:37:34 AM
Just because SU fans travel better than Georgetown doesn't mean its not a neutral game
I don't think SU fans travel to NYC. They all live there after graduating.
You can get from DC to Penn Station (right under MSG) in 2 hours 40 minutes on the Acela.
Its a 6 hour Amtrak ride from Syracuse to NYC, or a 4 hour drive and then you have to find parking.
The game is set up way better for Georgetown fans to attend. If SU fans still travel better, you can't pin it on the location.
Quote from: Atticus on September 13, 2013, 10:39:49 AM
I don't think SU fans travel to NYC. They all live there after graduating.
As do many many Georgetown alum. I have several high school friends who went to Georgetown and they all live in NYC.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 10:41:06 AM
As do many many Georgetown alum. I have several high school friends who went to Georgetown and they all live in NYC.
True, but there are more Syracuse alum which makes it easier for them to fill up MSG. Regardless, playing Syracuse in the Garden is a great opportunity for Georgetown to boost their RPI, play on national TV, etc.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 10:41:06 AM
As do many many Georgetown alum. I have several high school friends who went to Georgetown and they all live in NYC.
GU doesn't sell out their game against SJU at the Garden... Syracuse does, though.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 13, 2013, 10:32:53 AM
True, but have you ever been to the Big East Tournament? It is wall to wall orange every year. Not a neutral site game at all.
The same can be said for Notre Dame fans. A lot of alum, from throughtout the East Coast (and the Midwest) are in NYC.
DC is closer to MSG than Syracuse is, so it's as neutral as you will get. Even when those teams play in DC there are more Syracuse fans than Georgetown.
Quote from: Atticus on September 13, 2013, 10:44:58 AM
GU doesn't sell out their game against SJU at the Garden... Syracuse does, though.
GU doesn't sell out their game against SJU at the Verizon either. :P
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 10:40:30 AM
You can get from DC to Penn Station (right under MSG) in 2 hours 40 minutes on the Acela.
Its a 6 hour Amtrak ride from Syracuse to NYC, or a 4 hour drive and then you have to find parking.
The game is set up way better for Georgetown fans to attend. If SU fans still travel better, you can't pin it on the location.
That's a pretty optimistic drive time.
any syracuse game in NYC is going to dominated by SU fans, its actually crazy to see. I lived in NYC for a while and would go to a "Marquette" bar, which was really a syracuse bar because all of the bars are syracuse bars.
1) It is likely a straight up home and home
2) There would be more Syracuse fans at the Garden then Georgetown fans unless they did an even split of tickets and even then Cuse would likely end up sneaking a few from Georgetown by paying the dues to be a member of the Hoya Hoop Club and getting tickets that way. Georgetown does have a large number of Alums living in NYC and will draw the best of the Big East teams in the conference there, but the issue is Georgetown Undergrad 7,590 Syracuse Undergrad 14,798. They're almost twice the size of us. Of course they have more fans it's just a numbers game.
3) There's also a higher level and % of fandom at a school like Syracuse in the god forsaken tundra with nothing else to do besides watch Syracuse sports. Yes it's closer for Georgetown fans from DC to NYC than from Syracuse to NYC, but a huge amount of their fans already live in NYC or the surrounding areas and they have a huge presence in DC as well which means it's just as easy for them to go up to NYC from DC as it is for Georgetown fans.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 13, 2013, 12:00:02 PM
That's a pretty optimistic drive time.
Google maps said 3 hours 50 min
As much as I hate to see MU continually get out-coached by Boeheim (who out coaches everyone), I'd like to see MU get a similar series with Syracuse. It's always going to be either an amazing win or a "good loss" and always good for RPI.
ND - not quite the RPI impact, but MU also needs a similar long term series.
Ultimately, both of these teams really belong in the NBE for hoops, so locking them in with home and home now leads up to the inevitable.
One more thought - could MU/ND sell out the United Center????? It would be the best college hoops game Chicago has seen in years!
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on September 13, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
As much as I hate to see MU continually get out-coached by Boeheim (who out coaches everyone), I'd like to see MU get a similar series with Syracuse. It's always going to be either an amazing win or a "good loss" and always good for RPI.
ND - not quite the RPI impact, but MU also needs a similar long term series.
Ultimately, both of these teams really belong in the NBE for hoops, so locking them in with home and home now leads up to the inevitable.
One more thought - could MU/ND sell out the United Center????? It would be the best college hoops game Chicago has seen in years!
This. I think this idea has potential.
If on a weekend, MU vs. ND at the United Center would sell out.
Quote from: WI_inferiority_complexes on September 13, 2013, 07:43:12 PM
If on a weekend, MU vs. ND at the United Center would sell out.
Would it? ND bball fans seem somewhat apathetic.
I guess maybe I'm over-estimating the Domer contingent in the city; ND vs. Valpo drew 12K (the UC is 21,500 at capacity) in '03.
I still think MU could make up the difference and force a sell-out.
I'd rather play rivalry games on campus. Much better atmosphere than a neutral site game.
Quote from: WI_inferiority_complexes on September 13, 2013, 08:00:46 PM
I guess maybe I'm over-estimating the Domer in crowd in the city; ND vs. Valpo drew 12K (the UC is 21,500 at capacity) in '03.
I still think MU could make up the difference and force a sell-out.
Yea man. Do it during the school year (not during some break) and maybe have some shuttle buses getting students down there for the game, too.
I get more joy out of beating ND than any other regular-season opponent.
And it's all about me, right?
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 13, 2013, 08:04:24 PM
I'd rather play rivalry games on campus. Much better atmosphere than a neutral site game.
Generally, I would agree, but I view Chicago as "open territory" now for recruiting because Illinois is terrible, Depaul is in a rut, etc... MU could OWN Chicago recruiting with a game there every 2 or 3 years against a huge rival like ND, rather than a snoozer like Depaul.
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on September 13, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
As much as I hate to see MU continually get outreached by Boeheim (who out coaches everyone),
He generally has had more talent than Buzz, so Buzz has outcoached Boeheim more than Boeheim has outcoached Buzz.
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on September 13, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
As much as I hate to see MU continually get out-coached by Boeheim (who out coaches everyone), I'd like to see MU get a similar series with Syracuse. It's always going to be either an amazing win or a "good loss" and always good for RPI.
ND - not quite the RPI impact, but MU also needs a similar long term series.
Ultimately, both of these teams really belong in the NBE for hoops, so locking them in with home and home now leads up to the inevitable.
One more thought - could MU/ND sell out the United Center????? It would be the best college hoops game Chicago has seen in years!
MU -Cuse will never happen. They already have St Johns and Nova scheduled in the non conference schedule and they will add Georgetown. There's only so many non conference games and I doubt they would want to play 4 big east teams. I'm fine with it, we have limited history with them. To be honest, Notre dames is probably our best and only shot of adding a former big east team to the non conference schedule.
I like the idea of having a neutral game at the United Center as I am a Chicago resident. However I highly doubt MU would agree to this as Notre Dame would outdraw MU by a 4:1 margin. I'd take a home and home arrangement with ND like we have with UW-Madison.
However I remember warriorchick saying mike brey was holding this up. She can. Probably elaborate. We might want to look for another home and home rival until such a time as we can get ND.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 14, 2013, 12:17:40 AM
However I remember warriorchick saying mike brey was holding this up. She can. Probably elaborate. We might want to look for another home and home rival until such a time as we can get ND.
Brey wanted to keep a series with MU going after ND announced their move roughly one year ago.
http://www.bigeastcoastbias.com/2012/9/18/3353190/notre-dame-would-like-to-maintain-old-big-east-rivalries
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 14, 2013, 12:17:40 AM
I like the idea of having a neutral game at the United Center as I am a Chicago resident. However I highly doubt MU would agree to this as Notre Dame would outdraw MU by a 4:1 margin.n.
You're right... unless MU gets really clever, insists it's on a Saturday afternoon, adds it to the student package, and puts on buses as part of the student package. Then, even if it's still a 4:1 margin, our students would make more noise than their stodgy alumni. If they're really clever a few of the buses would come back on Sunday... so the MU students can visit their families of course.
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on September 13, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
As much as I hate to see MU continually get out-coached by Boeheim (who out coaches everyone), I'd like to see MU get a similar series with Syracuse. It's always going to be either an amazing win or a "good loss" and always good for RPI.
ND - not quite the RPI impact, but MU also needs a similar long term series.
Ultimately, both of these teams really belong in the NBE for hoops, so locking them in with home and home now leads up to the inevitable.
One more thought - could MU/ND sell out the United Center????? It would be the best college hoops game Chicago has seen in years!
I seem to remember beating them quite regularly. We must have been no worse than 500 against them....including last year.
We won three of the last five games against Syracuse. We had exciting victory over them on National Marquette Day in 2011 and then beat 'em again in that year's NCAA tourney to get to the Sweet 16, lost at Syracuse in 2012, and beat them again last season before losing to them in the Elite Eight.
So we have some pretty fond recent memories of games vs. 'Cuse -- take away our Blutarsky-like shooting percentage in last year's NCAA game.
Quote from: MU82 on September 14, 2013, 05:54:13 AM
We won three of the last five games against Syracuse. We had exciting victory over them on National Marquette Day in 2011 and then beat 'em again in that year's NCAA tourney to get to the Sweet 16, lost at Syracuse in 2012, and beat them again last season before losing to them in the Elite Eight.
So we have some pretty fond recent memories of games vs. 'Cuse -- take away our Blutarsky-like shooting percentage in last year's NCAA game.
I agree... I just go back a few years more, and i remember Boeheim proving that Crean is no game coach.
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on September 13, 2013, 06:42:50 PM
As much as I hate to see MU continually get out-coached by Boeheim (who out coaches everyone)
Boeheim outcoaches everyone? You're joking, right? He's a good teacher of the game and system coach. To outcoach someone, you need to be willing and able to make adjustments on the fly. Let me know the next time he shifts out of the 2-3 and we can start talking about him outcoaching people.
Boeheim is fine at his job. He's a great recruiter and does very well at planning for opponents, but it's the strength of what happens before the Orange hits the court that he wins on.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 14, 2013, 12:17:40 AM
I like the idea of having a neutral game at the United Center as I am a Chicago resident. However I highly doubt MU would agree to this as Notre Dame would outdraw MU by a 4:1 margin. I'd take a home and home arrangement with ND like we have with UW-Madison.
I disagree with that. I think MU would outdraw ND at the UC, or it would at least be fairly even, especially if it was during the non-conference schedule while ND fans are still pre-occupied with football. ND may have a large fanbase in Chicago, but they're fair weather fans that don't care about basketball. I'd prefer a home-and-home also, but playing at the UC would not be a disadvantage to MU. A 3 year rotation might be interesting, like MU-ND-UC.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 14, 2013, 08:23:30 AM
I disagree with that. I think MU would outdraw ND at the UC, or it would at least be fairly even, especially if it was during the non-conference schedule while ND fans are still pre-occupied with football. ND may have a large fanbase in Chicago, but they're fair weather fans that don't care about basketball. I'd prefer a home-and-home also, but playing at the UC would not be a disadvantage to MU. A 3 year rotation might be interesting, like MU-ND-UC.
+1. MU would do fine against ND in Chicago. May not be even fans but maybe 60-40 at worst. I really like the idea of a three year rotation of home-home-United Center. Fantastic idea actually.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 14, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
Boeheim outcoaches everyone? You're joking, right? He's a good teacher of the game and system coach. To outcoach someone, you need to be willing and able to make adjustments on the fly. Let me know the next time he shifts out of the 2-3 and we can start talking about him outcoaching people.
Boeheim is fine at his job. He's a great recruiter and does very well at planning for opponents, but it's the strength of what happens before the Orange hits the court that he wins on.
I'm pretty sure boeheim was a m2m coach and then a hybrid coach through at least the 2003 season (I remember them playing some man in the final four that year).
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 14, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
Boeheim outcoaches everyone? You're joking, right? He's a good teacher of the game and system coach. To outcoach someone, you need to be willing and able to make adjustments on the fly. Let me know the next time he shifts out of the 2-3 and we can start talking about him outcoaching people.
Boeheim is fine at his job. He's a great recruiter and does very well at planning for opponents, but it's the strength of what happens before the Orange hits the court that he wins on.
Not sure what you are trying to say here. Is Boeheim somehow less of a coach because, as you say, "it's the strength of what happens before the Orange hits the court that he wins on"? Seems to me that's the sign of a pretty damn good coach...teaching and preparation that lead to good execution of their game plan.
And the ability to make adjustments on the fly is not the only quality that makes a good coach. The best sign of a good coach is consistent winning, which he has done. Doesn't matter if it's due to game plan/preparation or if it's due to in-game adjustments, the end result is the same.
Isn't it possible that he outcoaches many coaches before the teams ever hit the floor?
Quote from: Litehouse on September 14, 2013, 08:23:30 AM
I disagree with that. I think MU would outdraw ND at the UC, or it would at least be fairly even, especially if it was during the non-conference schedule while ND fans are still pre-occupied with football. ND may have a large fanbase in Chicago, but they're fair weather fans that don't care about basketball. I'd prefer a home-and-home also, but playing at the UC would not be a disadvantage to MU. A 3 year rotation might be interesting, like MU-ND-UC.
Well I disagree with that ;)
I think the 60-40 ratio MarquetteDano laid out
might be possible, if all the scheduling is done right and convenient to MU. But there's no way we'd draw more than 40% in Chicago. This is ND territory. I've been to MU-Depaul games at Rosemont and while MU outdraws DePaul (which is not saying much) and does a decent job of filling the Allstate, there's usually
at most 4,000-5,000 MU fans. I doubt they would draw anymore than 5,000 or 6,000 at the UC for a Notre Dame game. The rest would probably be ND fans or neutral observers, but again Chicago is basically ND turf so even casual observers are going to be pulling for ND.
Keep in mind the United Center is massive, it seats 21,000 for basketball. All of this plays into ND's hands.
I think best case scenario is maybe a 40-60 split in favor of ND with a half-empty arena of 13,000 or so in attendance. But that would be embarassing.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 14, 2013, 03:11:14 PM
Well I disagree with that ;)
Keep in mind the United Center is massive, it seats 21,000 for basketball. All of this plays into ND's hands.
I think best case scenario is maybe a 40-60 split in favor of ND with a half-empty arena of 13,000 or so in attendance. But that would be embarassing.
I don't think getting 13,000 for a regular season game is embarrassing. I believe Duke played a regular season game versus Iowa State a few year ago and drew 10,000 at the UC. Still was nationally televised and I don't recall anyone stating how either team looked bad for the attendance.
It is not going to sell out. But I can see 15,000 for that game easy.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on September 14, 2013, 05:53:49 PM
I don't think getting 13,000 for a regular season game is embarrassing. I believe Duke played a regular season game versus Iowa State a few year ago and drew 10,000 at the UC. Still was nationally televised and I don't recall anyone stating how either team looked bad for the attendance.
It is not going to sell out. But I can see 15,000 for that game easy.
You're right. Playing in the United Center and not selling out wont be scrutinized by the national media. St. John's played Duke at MSG a few years back and barely drew 13k. THAT was bad. SJU fans didn't show up...hell, they never do. You can go to when they first started playing at MSG and attendance isn't great. Never.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 14, 2013, 06:48:46 AM
Boeheim outcoaches everyone? You're joking, right? He's a good teacher of the game and system coach. To outcoach someone, you need to be willing and able to make adjustments on the fly. Let me know the next time he shifts out of the 2-3 and we can start talking about him outcoaching people.
Boeheim is fine at his job. He's a great recruiter and does very well at planning for opponents, but it's the strength of what happens before the Orange hits the court that he wins on.
Didn't Syracuse set a record by going 17-1 in BE play...and win the championship outright? How does a team go 17-1 without a coach that makes adjustments? Seems crazy.
Quote from: Atticus on September 14, 2013, 07:59:48 PM
You're right. Playing in the United Center and not selling out wont be scrutinized by the national media. St. John's played Duke at MSG a few years back and barely drew 13k. THAT was bad. SJU fans didn't show up...hell, they never do. You can go to when they first started playing at MSG and attendance isn't great. Never.
I think it is well documented that you are not impressed with anyone in the Big East, Atticus. Why don't you spend more time on the ACC boards? It seems like that is where you belong, not in the lowly Big East.
What team do you support Atticus? We all know it isn't Marquette or anyone in the current Big East. Cuse perhaps? You seem like a classic Cuse hater.
As a Chicagoan, as much as I'd love another game in Chicago, the neutral site idea isn't a winner for me. Rivalry games need to be played on campus. It would be like playing Duke/Carolina at the Bobcats stadium. Likewise, the United Center is a massive arena. It's the 2nd-largest arena in the NBA by capacity (Only the Palace of Auburn Hills has more). Compare to a full Bradley Center against the Irish. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4rfKAO9tMM)
Think about how hard it is to fill the Bradley Center. Now add another 2,000 empty seats, and move the game almost 100 miles from campus. MU has nothing to gain in this arrangement.
In an ideal world, MU can set up a mid-term (4-year) or long term (10-year) contract with ND for a home-and-home. Hell, let's even start it on the road next year. MU would play Notre Dame at home in December of even-numbered years (the years that MU plays at Madison), and play in South Bend in December of odd-numbered years (When Bucky comes to Milwaukee). That way, MU would be guaranteed to have one big non-conference rivalry game every year at home, and also one non-conference road game pressure cooker early in the campaign to judge progress.
Selfishly, and this will probably earn a ragging, but I'd love to see Marquette restart their series with Northwestern. I've wanted to see a game at Welsh-Ryan, and MU could probably take over that arena pretty easily. Likewise, getting NU at the Bradley Center would have to provide a bigger test than any of the alphabet soup schools that comprise the buy game schedule. The only potential setback is NU would probably only agree to a home-and-home, rather than a 2-for-1 or something like that which would complicate nonconference schedule for other marquee opponents (i.e. Ohio State).