Obviously, a long way to go but you have to start somewhere. It's a metrics based business and numbers mean something.
In FS1's first week, they averaged 161,000 viewers per night in primetime. That's just a smidge over what SPEED was doing at 158,000 a night.
ESPN averaged 2.17 million viewers per night in primetime in the same week.
ESPN2, MLB Network and NFL Network all beat out FS1.
In total day parts, FS1 averaged 81,000 per day which is below SPEED which had 100,000 per day.
I have no idea about this industry at all, but what is the general trajectory of cable TV stations. Do they start with a high viewership because its a new toy, or do they take a while to build up given the fact that anyone not intensely interested in one of Fox Sports 1's leagues would even know it exists.
I don't know what the numbers all mean in the grand scheme of things, but everybody pretty much knows it is never easy to break into a field that is completely dominated by one name.
It might not be fair to compare FS1 to Speed during the off season for both football and basketball. I expect those numbers to rise dramatically. Of course, so will ESPN's, but FS1 should have no problem beating out the previous numbers that Speed had during the seasons.
Quote from: EnderWiggen on August 28, 2013, 05:26:54 PM
It might not be fair to compare FS1 to Speed during the off season for both football and basketball. I expect those numbers to rise dramatically. Of course, so will ESPN's, but FS1 should have no problem beating out the previous numbers that Speed had during the seasons.
This. I think the numbers will go up over NCAA football and basketball seasons. Not to ESPN levels, but definitely higher than Speed.
I also expect Fox network channel to pimp the crap out of FS1 during the NFL season, which will help.
I tried to watch the FS1 equivalent to Sports Center but it somehow managed to be worse.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 28, 2013, 04:40:05 PM
Obviously, a long way to go but you have to start somewhere. It's a metrics based business and numbers mean something.
In FS1's first week, they averaged 161,000 viewers per night in primetime. That's just a smidge over what SPEED was doing at 158,000 a night.
ESPN averaged 2.17 million viewers per night in primetime in the same week.
ESPN2, MLB Network and NFL Network all beat out FS1.
In total day parts, FS1 averaged 81,000 per day which is below SPEED which had 100,000 per day.
More concerning to me is that FS1 isn't really an "Alternative to ESPN", but rather just an "Alternate ESPN".
Hoping it evolves into something more watchable. Live sporting events will help. But, their studio stuff is horrible so far. They would be better off showing Dorf on Golf.
The numbers will get better, the product will get better. I'm curious to see where their equilibrium point is and how long it will take to get there. Summer isn't great for sports unless you carry baseball and motorsports on the weekend. There is a vocal group of motorsports fans that are really pissed off that Speed went away, but that was to be expected. Some of those fans will watch FS1 because they are stick and ball fans as well, while a good chunk will be lost forever. Meanwhile FS1 will fill the void left from Speed from elsewhere.
With college football about to start tomorrow (FS1 has a game...Utah vs Utah State), we'll see how they start doing with some actual sports content. FS1 has some Pac 12 games which they'll be counting on to bring a few eyeballs to.
FS1 will be fine. They'll find their footing...and yes, I already prefer FSL to SportCenter. Fox Sports and FS1 already have the NFL, MLB, Big XII and Pac-12 football, Big East basketball, UFC, Champions League soccer....and soon, World Cup soccer, US Open golf, and part of the NBA (Fox will make a HUGE bid and grab a chunk of Turner's current package. This will happen). Plus, I'm hearing FS1 will go heavy for a Thursday Night NFL game.
Chicos, what have you heard regarding Fox/FS1 and the NBA?
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 28, 2013, 05:33:02 PM
I tried to watch the FS1 equivalent to Sports Center but it somehow managed to be worse.
I tried also. They have to do do some changes, especially with the graphics. Brutal.
Quote from: nyg on August 28, 2013, 05:56:15 PM
I tried also. They have to do do some changes, especially with the graphics. Brutal.
Yes, graphics are bad.
Panel is meh.
I actually like Jay and Dan. And the presentation of highlights I like better than SC.
I think things will pick up for them as they get more live programming. Hard to build too much momentum off a single UFC event, some boxing and replays of daytime UEFA games.
Their graphics don't bother me, and I much prefer their set. ESPN is so dark and gloomy. Always looks like they're shooting in someone's basement. I'm also enjoying their 1 On 1 interview segments. Last night's was great with Eli Manning and Roger Federer. Had one last week with LeBron that was very good too.
Also like that they show highlights from all games. What a concept. I've seen more Brewers highlights in one week on FS1 than I have in three years on SportsCenter.
Perhaps best of all, no obsession with Tebow.
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 28, 2013, 06:24:23 PM
Their graphics don't bother me, and I much prefer their set. ESPN is so dark and gloomy. Always looks like they're shooting in someone's basement. I'm also enjoying their 1 On 1 interview segments. Last night's was great with Eli Manning and Roger Federer. Had one last week with LeBron that was very good too.
Also like that they show highlights from all games. What a concept. I've seen more Brewers highlights in one week on FS1 than I have in three years on SportsCenter.
Perhaps best of all, no obsession with Tebow.
Couldnt have said it better
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 28, 2013, 06:24:23 PM
Their graphics don't bother me, and I much prefer their set. ESPN is so dark and gloomy. Always looks like they're shooting in someone's basement. I'm also enjoying their 1 On 1 interview segments. Last night's was great with Eli Manning and Roger Federer. Had one last week with LeBron that was very good too.
Also like that they show highlights from all games. What a concept. I've seen more Brewers highlights in one week on FS1 than I have in three years on SportsCenter.
Perhaps best of all, no obsession with Tebow.
ESPN has a crazy new set coming next year.....193,000 square foot building, 4 studios, 6 control rooms. Nothing like it around.....launching in 2014.
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 28, 2013, 05:42:44 PM
Chicos, what have you heard regarding Fox/FS1 and the NBA?
Good question. Current deal goes through 2016 season and is split between Turner and ESPN at about $940 million per year. NBA opened up negotiations this Summer with those two, two full years before the current deal ends.
However it works out, the NBA is going to get huge $$$$$$$$. They will leverage the existence of FS1 to drive up the bidding price for the package. There is also talk of them creating a third package that FS1 could get (or NBC Sports Network), meaning Turner, ESPN, FS1 each with a piece of the pie. That's not always ideal from a ratings perspective, marketing, etc as NASCAR knows, but it can drive up the rights fees.
In early August, ESPN and Time Warner (Turner) sounded confident they will retain the rights and have made them a high priority for the companies. Some pretty bullish remarks from Bob Iger (Disney) and Bewkes (TW)....surprisingly confident considering the other players out there. Perhaps just posturing, but loud posturing.
Hard to compete when MOST subscribers to DISH NETWORK are not getting FS1.
Fox Sports 1 is only on DISH's Top 200 package and above.
Fox Sports 2 (in SD only) is on the Top 120 and 120+ packages, but not on the Top 200.
From what I can tell neither is on the Multi-Sport Pack.
To get both, you need the Top 250 package at a minimum. I don't know the breakdown but I imagine the vast majority of DISH customers have the Top 120+ package or below.
I have always had the Top 120+ package, and added the Mulit-Sport package during CBB season.
I can only hope this is not a permanent solution, it is BAD news for FS1.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 28, 2013, 05:42:15 PM
The numbers will get better, the product will get better. I'm curious to see where their equilibrium point is and how long it will take to get there. Summer isn't great for sports unless you carry baseball and motorsports on the weekend. There is a vocal group of motorsports fans that are really pissed off that Speed went away, but that was to be expected. Some of those fans will watch FS1 because they are stick and ball fans as well, while a good chunk will be lost forever. Meanwhile FS1 will fill the void left from Speed from elsewhere.
With college football about to start tomorrow (FS1 has a game...Utah vs Utah State), we'll see how they start doing with some actual sports content. FS1 has some Pac 12 games which they'll be counting on to bring a few eyeballs to.
I thought they were keeping all the racing programming, is that not the case? I'm not a fan, but I recognize that there is a decent sized audience.
I'm sure that once the fall season sports start there will be way more eyeballs on FS1. Some of them may even stay around afterward. Personally, between the Bucks/Brewers on FSWI and Marquette and the UFC on FS1 I don't foresee myself having to leave the Fox family of networks for any sports but Packers games.
Numbers really don't mean anything yet. Until the marketing and college FB kick in, they will stay fairly low. Even as a huge sports fan, I saw very little announcing FS1 before it began. Unless you were a Big East BB aficionado, you probably had little idea it was even launching. The test will be in the next few months when I am sure FS1 will get heavy promotion on Fox' NFL coverage.
Hopefully, by that time, the kinks in the Fox Sports Live will be worked out a bit. (Unless you want to hire Olberman & Patrick, don't overdue the "clever" thing.)
But I agree with Groin - the interviews have been outstanding - much better than ESPNs. Hopefully they won't start womanizing things and have background music playing on all of their pieces (my pet peeve).
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 28, 2013, 05:31:49 PM
This. I think the numbers will go up over NCAA football and basketball seasons. Not to ESPN levels, but definitely higher than Speed.
Sorry to be picky, but it's not NCAA football. NCAA doesn't run the FBS level.
In primetime, FS1 finished well behind ESPN (2.2M) and ESPN2 (473K) last week. Keep in mind ESPN had NFL and Major League Baseball games in primetime, while FS1 had to rely on lesser draws such as the UFC and boxing.
NFL Network (383K) and MLB Network (193K) also outdrew Fox Sports 1 in primetime last week. Despite the slow start, Fox Sports 1 was able to outdraw NBC Sports Network (104K).
Yes, FS1 numbers will go up with the Big 12 & Pac-12 football this fall. Looking forward to Boise State at Washington at 9pm this Saturday.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 28, 2013, 07:00:24 PM
Good question. Current deal goes through 2016 season and is split between Turner and ESPN at about $940 million per year. NBA opened up negotiations this Summer with those two, two full years before the current deal ends.
However it works out, the NBA is going to get huge $$$$$$$$. They will leverage the existence of FS1 to drive up the bidding price for the package. There is also talk of them creating a third package that FS1 could get (or NBC Sports Network), meaning Turner, ESPN, FS1 each with a piece of the pie. That's not always ideal from a ratings perspective, marketing, etc as NASCAR knows, but it can drive up the rights fees.
I think you're right. A 3rd package was my feeling all along for the NBA. Those huge $$$$$ get even larger that way. They need a combination of NBA & CBB to be a real player in the sport
Aug. 29
8 p.m. ET - Utah State vs. Utah (FS1)
Aug. 30
8:30 p.m. ET - North Dakota State vs. Kansas State (FS1)
Aug. 31
12 p.m. ET - William & Mary vs. West Virginia (FS1)
4 p.m. ET - Nicholls State vs. Oregon (FS1)
10 p.m. ET - Boise State vs. Washington (FS1)
Sept. 5
7:30 p.m. ET - Florida Atlantic vs. East Carolina (FS1)
Sept. 7
12 p.m. ET - Oklahoma State vs. UTSA (FS1)
6:30 p.m. ET - Louisiana-Lafayette vs. Kansas State (FS1)
7 p.m. ET - West Virginia vs. Oklahoma (Fox)
10:30 p.m. ET - Washington State vs. USC (FS1)
Sept. 12
7:30 Tulane vs. Louisiana Tech (FS1)
Sept. 14
12 p.m. ET - Virginia Tech vs. East Carolina (FS1)
6 p.m. ET - Iowa vs. Iowa State (FS1)
7 p.m. ET - Ohio State vs. Cal (Fox)
10 p.m. ET - Oregon State vs. Utah (FS1)
Don't know how much more I can take. Was watching Olbermann on ESPN and when a commercial came up, I switched to FS1.
To my horror - it was Sanchez AGAIN!!!
FS1 - STOP IT NOW. If you want to hitch your network to Mark Sanchez news, count me out. I don't even remember this much tebow on ESPN.
Quote from: brandx on August 28, 2013, 10:50:34 PM
Don't know how much more I can take. Was watching Olbermann on ESPN and when a commercial came up, I switched to FS1.
To my horror - it was Sanchez AGAIN!!!
FS1 - STOP IT NOW. If you want to hitch your network to Mark Sanchez news, count me out. I don't even remember this much tebow on ESPN.
The hotel I am staying at doesn't carry FS1 and ESPN for some reason was down, so I had switched to ESPNEWS to catch some late night sports and Olbermann was on. That was one of the most awful broadcasts I had ever seen. I'm not sure if it was just last night's broadcast, but the show was absolutely terrible.
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 28, 2013, 06:24:23 PM
Their graphics don't bother me, and I much prefer their set. ESPN is so dark and gloomy. Always looks like they're shooting in someone's basement. I'm also enjoying their 1 On 1 interview segments. Last night's was great with Eli Manning and Roger Federer. Had one last week with LeBron that was very good too.
Also like that they show highlights from all games. What a concept. I've seen more Brewers highlights in one week on FS1 than I have in three years on SportsCenter.
Perhaps best of all, no obsession with Tebow.
The only part of their presentation I really don't like is the bottom ticker. Have got so used to what sport is coming up next with scores. The actual highlight area is a little small but having the stats on the side at the same time I think is a great addition instead of showing a graphic after the highlights.
I think their ratings will go up as more sports start. If you think that racing has a limited fan base they are not helping themselves by showing so much UFC. Once Football Daily is done I usually have to go back to ESPN if I want to continue watching sports.
Quote from: mupanther on August 28, 2013, 07:37:28 PM
Sorry to be picky, but it's not NCAA football. NCAA doesn't run the FBS level.
Sorry to be picky, but the NCAA does "run" college football. NCAA just doesn't run the championship system, but they can bad, suspend, licence merchandise, and fine as well as any college sport.
Quote from: MUMonster03 on August 29, 2013, 09:03:31 AM
The only part of their presentation I really don't like is the bottom ticker. Have got so used to what sport is coming up next with scores. The actual highlight area is a little small but having the stats on the side at the same time I think is a great addition instead of showing a graphic after the highlights.
I think their ratings will go up as more sports start. If you think that racing has a limited fan base they are not helping themselves by showing so much UFC. Once Football Daily is done I usually have to go back to ESPN if I want to continue watching sports.
UFC is mostly filler. Since there is no season, they can throw together Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, or Saturday programming on a couple of months notice. It serves basically the same purpose as the NASCAR programming.
I recently did a little research and the fan bases are actually not that far apart in size (45 million for NASCAR, 35 million for UFC. NASCAR also has around 15 million "avid fans" while the UFC has about 11 million). Both fall far short of the NFL (90 million, and 51 million) and other major sports, but there is a decent audience for the programming. Both are actually very similar in the number of avid fans to the NHL (17 million) and MLS (12 million)
The number of households who watched the premier UFC event on FS1 was actually somewhere around 1.8 million, which was the highest for that time slot on that night.
Basically, what I'm saying is that while these aren't Big 3 sized fanbases, they could pretty easily carry the channel (and both have carried a channel at one time, the UFC with Spike and NASCAR with SPEED), especially when they don't have much else for inventory.
(Numbers come from the Simmons Research Database).
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 28, 2013, 05:33:02 PM
I tried to watch the FS1 equivalent to Sports Center but it somehow managed to be worse.
Their version of sportscenter stinks so far. The two hosts are just not funny, even though they try really hard to be. The panel group also is not jelling either. They need a lot of work on this show.
Quote from: mupanther on August 28, 2013, 07:37:28 PM
Sorry to be picky, but it's not NCAA football. NCAA doesn't run the FBS level.
No.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/divisioni/about+division+i
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/divisioni/di+facts+and+figures
Quote from: Norm on August 29, 2013, 11:14:43 AM
Their version of sportscenter stinks so far. The two hosts are just not funny, even though they try really hard to be. The panel group also is not jelling either. They need a lot of work on this show.
Thank you, Norm. Nice to know I'm not the only one who thought they were trying too hard to be funny and cool and were failing miserably at both.
Quote from: striker14 on August 29, 2013, 10:49:31 AM
Basically, what I'm saying is that while these aren't Big 3 sized fanbases, they could pretty easily carry the channel (and both have carried a channel at one time, the UFC with Spike and NASCAR with SPEED), especially when they don't have much else for inventory.
They may carry the channel, but they will only be a player with NBCSN - not ESPN.
But, I think, unlike NBCSN, they have much bigger plans for the future.
Quote from: brandx on August 29, 2013, 12:13:56 PM
They may carry the channel, but they will only be a player with NBCSN - not ESPN.
But, I think, unlike NBCSN, they have much bigger plans for the future.
They won't have to for very long, I'm just saying that they could if necessary. Once college sports pick up here I'm guessing the vast majority of the content will be from basketball and football. I really hope FS1 doesn't wind up being the UFC/NASCAR channel (much as I love the UFC). I'm assuming that next year they will have some baseball content to fill in the gaps as well, maybe even a little more soccer coverage. I also believe that the general sports programming (FS Live, Crowd Goes Wild, etc) will improve as they work out the kinks. By basketball season I'm hoping for a much more polished product.
Quote from: striker14 on August 29, 2013, 12:27:14 PMBy basketball season I'm hoping for a much more polished product.
This is important to note, as this is a work in progress. I think they have at least 5 months (college conference season) and more likely 9 (I believe that's when FS1 MLB games start) to smooth things out before their audiences increase by simple addition of programming with established fanbases.
Not saying UFC and soccer doesn't have a niche, but I think Big East fans are specifically looking forward to this presentation, and MLB will draw more eyes regardless.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 29, 2013, 11:34:49 AM
No.
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/divisioni/about+division+i
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/divisioni/di+facts+and+figures
Your just showing ncaa schools, its was ran by the leagues and one time in 1981 the cfa.
FBS Football is an NCAA sponsored event. NCAA rules and regulations apply to all players, coaches, teams and schools. Players have an NCAA patch on their uniforms for goodness sake.
Its true, the NCAA doesn't run the championship (BCS) but to say I was incorrect in calling it NCAA football is just plain false. Its NCAA football. NCAA controls the product, as proof by their ability to license the product to merchandise like this:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2013/04/ncaa-14-dual-box.jpg)
So is FS1 carrying the MU/Ohio State game?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 30, 2013, 10:00:50 AM
So is FS1 carrying the MU/Ohio State game?
I would assume FS1 has the rights to the game since we are the home team. I'm sure ESPN or CBS could always buy the rights to the game. Not sure how non conference games work but would be surprised if Fox sold them, if they had them, since this is a marquee early season game.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 30, 2013, 09:19:46 AM
FBS Football is an NCAA sponsored event. NCAA rules and regulations apply to all players, coaches, teams and schools. Players have an NCAA patch on their uniforms for goodness sake.
Its true, the NCAA doesn't run the championship (BCS) but to say I was incorrect in calling it NCAA football is just plain false. Its NCAA football. NCAA controls the product, as proof by their ability to license the product to merchandise like this:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2013/04/ncaa-14-dual-box.jpg)
Correct. The only difference between football and the other sports is that the NCAA does not stage a championship at the FBS level and therefore does not own its media rights. A coalition of the conferences do.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on August 30, 2013, 10:00:50 AM
So is FS1 carrying the MU/Ohio State game?
Ohio State-Marquette land on a bad day being on Nov. 16. College Football Saturday. Football is listed at 11:30am 3pm and 9pm on FS1. The game will be a day game since the Bucks play at night. Might be moved to FS2.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 30, 2013, 09:19:46 AM
FBS Football is an NCAA sponsored event. NCAA rules and regulations apply to all players, coaches, teams and schools. Players have an NCAA patch on their uniforms for goodness sake.
Its true, the NCAA doesn't run the championship (BCS) but to say I was incorrect in calling it NCAA football is just plain false. Its NCAA football. NCAA controls the product, as proof by their ability to license the product to merchandise like this:
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2013/04/ncaa-14-dual-box.jpg)
Not saying you are wrong, but I guess I did. That is why I said I was being picky. They don't say NCAA football, they say college football. I don't care what video games say. I'm talking ABC/CBS/NBC/ESPN, etc. I was more talking about the CFA that started in 1977.
Quote from: mupanther on August 30, 2013, 12:13:34 PM
Not saying you are wrong, but I guess I did. That is why I said I was being picky. They don't say NCAA football, they say college football. I don't care what video games say. I'm talking ABC/CBS/NBC/ESPN, etc. I was more talking about the CFA that started in 1977.
Fair enough. I was more responding to bradley center bat
Quote from: mupanther on August 30, 2013, 12:13:34 PM
Not saying you are wrong, but I guess I did. That is why I said I was being picky. They don't say NCAA football, they say college football. I don't care what video games say. I'm talking ABC/CBS/NBC/ESPN, etc. I was more talking about the CFA that started in 1977.
The CFA died. And the networks also refer to NCAA basketball as "college basketball."
In basketball the money goes to the ncaa