Marquette dipped to 15th in the country in per-game attendance in 2012-'13, but how does that compare to the rest of the Big East?
http://painttouches.com/2013/08/14/marquette-attendance-second-best-in-big-east/
Quote from: pux90mex on August 14, 2013, 01:42:00 PM
Marquette dipped to 15th in the country in per-game attendance in 2012-'13, but how does that compare to the rest of the Big East?
http://painttouches.com/2013/08/14/marquette-attendance-second-best-in-big-east/
Did you also by chance look at % sold out for each team? Obviously Creighton plays in a big stadium, but I can't imagine Hinkle field house seats 18000 and I don't know about Xavier at all.
Quote from: Abode4life on August 14, 2013, 03:12:42 PM
Did you also by chance look at % sold out for each team? Obviously Creighton plays in a big stadium, but I can't imagine Hinkle field house seats 18000 and I don't know about Xavier at all.
Cintas center is 10,25
Hinkle field house is 10,000
Century Link Center 18,560
I'm surprised Georgetown's numbers are so low. They play in a 20,000+ seat NBA arena in a big city, had a solid season led by a lottery pick...and averaged under 11,000 per home game? And they're our "flagship" program?
When was the last time MU's numbers were that low?
I believe the so called 414 recruits will be the biggest reason for any attendance increase. Local players are going to bring in family in friends to watch. Out of state recruits like Dawson and JJJ will have very little effect on attendance.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 14, 2013, 03:31:30 PM
I'm surprised Georgetown's numbers are so low. They play in a 20,000+ seat NBA arena in a big city, had a solid season led by a lottery pick...and averaged under 11,000 per home game? And they're our "flagship" program?
When was the last time MU's numbers were that low?
My understanding is that they don't play every game in the Verizon Center only big games.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 14, 2013, 03:31:30 PM
I'm surprised Georgetown's numbers are so low. They play in a 20,000+ seat NBA arena in a big city, had a solid season led by a lottery pick...and averaged under 11,000 per home game? And they're our "flagship" program?
When was the last time MU's numbers were that low?
Been to many Georgetown games and their fan base is surprisingly weak. I saw them play Syracuse at the Verizon when both teams were ranked in the top 10 - tickets were easy to get and the place was at least half orange. Even when they played Marquette I'd say 30%-40% the crowd was pulling for MU. They are going to really struggle to fill that arena with fewer marquee games on the schedule.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 14, 2013, 03:46:51 PM
My understanding is that they don't play every game in the Verizon Center only big games.
Pretty sure they are all at Verizon.
Quote from: frozena pizza on August 14, 2013, 03:52:22 PM
Pretty sure they are all at Verizon.
They are. Last time we it was brought up the fans attributed low attendance to traffic and parking issues and their annual tournament choke jobs, among other things.
Quote from: frozena pizza on August 14, 2013, 03:52:22 PM
Pretty sure they are all at Verizon.
The Big East has a few teams that struggle to fill their arenas. Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul, St Johns. As far as MU, I'm not sure how their attendance is determined, but I've seen pictures of a half-full BC...only to read that their attendance that day was 14,000+.
Must be tickets sold...not actually fannies in the seats, right?
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 14, 2013, 04:07:56 PM
The Big East has a few teams that struggle to fill their arenas. Georgetown, Seton Hall, DePaul, St Johns. As far as MU, I'm not sure how their attendance is determined, but I've seen pictures of a half-full BC...only to read that their attendance that day was 14,000+.
Must be tickets sold...not actually fannies in the seats, right?
I believe most teams go by tickets sold, as opposed to butts in seats.
Agree with the list of other BE schools that struggle to fill seats...but Georgetown is the only one on your list that has had any significant success of late. SJU is showing signs of life but still hasn't had great results, and Seton Hall and DePaul have generally been bad lately. Georgetown was Big East co-champ last year and has had several generally good seasons. No excuse for such bad numbers IMHO.
Oh, and SJU, Seton Hall and DePaul fans aren't claiming their schools are the "flagship" of the new conference....
Overall trend for MU is troubling.
Has gone down every single year since 2007-2008 - every year of the Buzz era (not blaming this on Buzz - just framing the time span)
This despite 2 straight Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance.
You can blame the first couple years on the recession, but its still trending down. What gives?
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 14, 2013, 04:26:39 PM
Overall trend for MU is troubling.
Has gone down every single year since 2007-2008 - every year of the Buzz era (not blaming this on Buzz - just framing the time span)
This despite 2 straight Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance.
You can blame the first couple years on the recession, but its still trending down. What gives?
I honestly think the availability of nearly every game on TV has been a bad thing for in-person attendance. I live several hours' away so usually try to sell most of the weeknight games. A few years ago, I could usually sell most- even non-conference - and often for face value or something close. The last couple of seasons, it's hard to give tickets away for anything but a marquee opponent.
That said, MU's recent news about the drive for new season ticket holders sounds promising. Hope it isn't offset by older ticket holders giving them up....
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 14, 2013, 04:26:39 PM
Overall trend for MU is troubling.
Has gone down every single year since 2007-2008 - every year of the Buzz era (not blaming this on Buzz - just framing the time span)
This despite 2 straight Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance.
You can blame the first couple years on the recession, but its still trending down. What gives?
I think you're seeing this in both college hoops and in college football. Both sports have seen attendance drop. Seems like today's students just aren't as interested in going to games. I've never really heard why. What do students say? Too expensive? Too boring?
Too much of a time commitment?
MU would have been 4th in the Big 10 and 5th in the new ACC.
Not bad for a private school with about 10000 students.....
Quote from: bilsu on August 14, 2013, 03:43:05 PM
I believe the so called 414 recruits will be the biggest reason for any attendance increase. Local players are going to bring in family in friends to watch. Out of state recruits like Dawson and JJJ will have very little effect on attendance.
Eh, can we really expect 2,000 more fans on average based on family and friends. That's a little far-fetched.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 14, 2013, 04:26:39 PM
Overall trend for MU is troubling.
Has gone down every single year since 2007-2008 - every year of the Buzz era (not blaming this on Buzz - just framing the time span)
This despite 2 straight Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance.
You can blame the first couple years on the recession, but its still trending down. What gives?
I remember some big economic things happening after that season. I believe attendance in all sports overall has been down.
That being said, Georgetown students simply are the worst. yeah, its not super easy getting there (maybe you should've taken that metro stop GTown), but its isn't THAT hard. Georgetown doesn't bus its students to the arena for the games like we do, but there's plenty of ways they can get there.
Wow I didn't think it could get worse than DePaul. Of course I guess they get a boost when Marquette comes to town :)
Quote from: Aughnanure on August 14, 2013, 04:49:47 PM
I remember some big economic things happening after that season. I believe attendance in all sports overall has been down.
Yeah - and I said I know the recession happened. But then it ended. And we are still losing attendance year over year.
Quote from: Aughnanure on August 14, 2013, 04:49:47 PM
I remember some big economic things happening after that season. I believe attendance in all sports overall has been down.
That being said, Georgetown students simply are the worst. yeah, its not super easy getting there (maybe you should've taken that metro stop GTown), but its isn't THAT hard. Georgetown doesn't bus its students to the arena for the games like we do, but there's plenty of ways they can get there.
Goes back to my earlier comment. Seems that today's students don't care as much as earlier generations. Attendance is dropping in both college football and basketball.
Quote from: frozena pizza on August 14, 2013, 03:52:22 PM
Pretty sure they are all at Verizon.
Maybe I was thinking of Villanova or SJU.
Quote from: Groin_pull on August 14, 2013, 04:56:10 PM
Goes back to my earlier comment. Seems that today's students don't care as much as earlier generations. Attendance is dropping in both college football and basketball.
As a 5th year senior I can say we care more than ever but games are more fun with pregame parties and lesser alcohol restrictions. And in the 6 years I have been coming up here for games and stuff pregame parties have diminished, and the student section has chilled out because of the amount of sober people. Also Those who are would be nuts fans at games show up halfway through the games or say they'd rather watch it on TV because they don't have to pay outrageous amounts for a beer.
I'm sure Creighton's new scoreboard isn't going to hurt attendance numbers at the CenturyLink Center this season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOFFLnQVBA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOFFLnQVBA)
Quote from: 1881 on August 14, 2013, 08:15:20 PM
I'm sure Creighton's new scoreboard isn't going to hurt attendance numbers at the CenturyLink Center this season.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOFFLnQVBA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQOFFLnQVBA)
No one shows up for a new scoreboard. Sometimes I wish they would just do away with all the stupid bells and whistles that go one during every break/tv timeout.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 14, 2013, 04:54:06 PM
Yeah - and I said I know the recession happened. But then it ended. And we are still losing attendance year over year.
Ended? According to who?
Damage still lingers for a long time. The economy literally lost TRILLIONS of dollars. You don't get that back with a few "not bad" years.
The economy is a pretty big factor - I sit down low where you would think money is not a factor (I get there cause of a family connection), surprised how many of the nearby folks have either moved to upper deck seats or stopped all together due to the economy.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 14, 2013, 04:54:06 PM
Yeah - and I said I know the recession happened. But then it ended.
Tell that to the people who are still upside down on their homes.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 14, 2013, 04:26:39 PM
Overall trend for MU is troubling.
Has gone down every single year since 2007-2008 - every year of the Buzz era (not blaming this on Buzz - just framing the time span)
This despite 2 straight Sweet 16s and an Elite 8 appearance.
You can blame the first couple years on the recession, but its still trending down. What gives?
It's all reasonably explained. Not troubling. A thorough analysis reveals it's not as "bad" as it looks. PS-"Pain Touches" is back? Pawz.
From my observation the student section has been as full as it has ever been. Its the non-students that seem to becoming less and less.
I know high attendance means more money for the program, but I would much rather play in a smaller stadium. Its so hard to really get the Bradley Center into a true raucous. The Al is way too small, but I would love to play in something in between.
Trying to make a simple statement on reasons for attendance numbers doesn't usually work. There are many things at play, but nothing significant to worry about. I think the fan support heading into this season is great.
A few thoughts (could go on for days with this):
+ Remember, the Elite 8 happened at the end of the year. Using it as a reason why 2012-13 attendance should have been higher is silly.
+ 2010-11 - Nonconf average was 14,490 (vs. 13,978 in 2011-12 & 14,028 in 2012-13), however ex Wisconsin it was only 13,917 (2012-13 figure ex Wisc is 13,268). Great 2012-13 year for MU, but they started getting respected in the rankings late in the year.
+ 2010-11 NC – 22% of home games were on weeknights. One of those was worst attended of season, other was not because it was Green Bay.
+ 2011-12 NC – ranked team, yes. Similar nonconference results ex Wisc when compared to 2010-11. Why? One reason is more than half of their home games were on weeknights. Only sub-13,000 games were Monday nights – worst one being a 6pm CT start.
+ To be fair, some benefit to 2012-13 and 2011-12 vs. 2010-11 because of 7 NC games vs. 9. Certainly conference games are also at play in the numbers.
+ Conf games: 2012-13: 15,815; 2011-12: 16,040; 2010-11 16,682
+ 2010-11: Played only 3 non-tourney teams. Those included DePaul and the other two were weekend games. Also; 1/1 10am Saturday game actually wasn't horribly attended.
+ 2011-12: Played 5 non-tourney teams. Worst game was vs. tourney team – but it was USF on a Tuesday. Had big crowds on weekends games.
+ 2012-13: Only 14,159 for New Year's Day 7pm CT game vs. postseason-banned UCONN, with work looming the next day for many.
+ 2012-13: Played 5 non-tourney teams, including 3 on weekdays.
+ 2012-13: Averaged 17,157 in last four games (worked way into national rankings). [2011-12: 16,634 over last four; 2010-11: 17,003 over last four].
You could pick apart many schedules of other teams, too.
Quote from: chapman on August 14, 2013, 04:06:11 PM
They are. Last time we it was brought up the fans attributed low attendance to traffic and parking issues and their annual tournament choke jobs, among other things.
I would have thought Georgetown's standing as a national university (meaning their graduates don't stick around DC) would have more of an impact.
Quote from: Benny B on August 14, 2013, 09:30:43 PM
Tell that to the people who are still upside down on their homes.
Yeah - and the fact that it's referred to as a "jobless recovery".
Quote from: windyplayer on August 14, 2013, 04:45:52 PM
Eh, can we really expect 2,000 more fans on average based on family and friends. That's a little far-fetched.
I am not sure where you are getting 2000 fans from, but my statement was that the 414 group is the biggest reason for any attendance increase. Besides bringing in friends and family, MU without them would not be as good of a team and therefore less people would want to go to an MU game. Now, if MU's attendance increases by 2,000 I would not say that everyone is due to 414 group, but the majority are (1001+ out of 2000).
Georgetown has a number of issues facing it in terms of attendance:
1) Georgetown is a national University most of our students do not stay in DC after graduation.
2) DC is a huge transplant city. Most people come to DC with other fanships already solidly in place. In addition since we're a small private school combined with point one means we play second fiddle to the university of Maryland. We're in ACC territory.
3) Due to the schools academic reputation we attract a larger percentage of students who have no interests in sports
4) DC is a major city with tons of other options( not saying milwaukee isn't but DC has more) In addition to NBA and MLB (Which milwaukee has) we have NFL, NHL and MLS franchises as well in addition to the multitude of non sport options: Smithsonian museums, the Kennedy Center, etc.
5) Lack of transportation to games for students. We used to bus students to games but that practice was stopped. It would definitely help out with attendance if they were able to bring it back.
6) Price. Many schools give their students free tickets. Georgetown students have to pay $125 for their student tickets which is obviously cheap compared to what season ticket holders pay, but not free. and the price of season tickets for alumni has been going up almost every year.
7) Opponents. The Hoyas always play a great OOC schedule. Unfortunately all our good games are almost always neutral site games either in tournaments or one off games. We get probably 1 decent home OOC game a year. Last year it was Tennessee. Remember how that game turned out?
8) Lack of postseason success. The constant flame outs in the tournament have really taken a toll. DC is a fair weather town. You can capture the interest of non affiliated fans when you're winning, but not when you're losing and unfortunately the average sport fan only cares about post season success and not regular season success.
9) Lack of Hype preseason. Despite performing well in the regular season the last few years and reaching he top 10 in the rankings at some point in every season since 2007 on 3 times since then have we been ranked in the top 25 to start the season. Georgetown usually starts off in the ARVs and then starts a slow methodical march to the top 10. There were no expectations from the media for Georgetown last year to drive ticket sales preseason. We had lost our top 3 scorers.
That being said our attendance is sad and embarrassing and I wish it was better. I do think post season success will increase our numbers back to it's 2007, 2008 levels.
Quote from: Jay Bee on August 14, 2013, 11:18:09 PM
Trying to make a simple statement on reasons for attendance numbers doesn't usually work. There are many things at play, but nothing significant to worry about. I think the fan support heading into this season is great.
A few thoughts (could go on for days with this):
+ Remember, the Elite 8 happened at the end of the year. Using it as a reason why 2012-13 attendance should have been higher is silly.
+ 2010-11 - Nonconf average was 14,490 (vs. 13,978 in 2011-12 & 14,028 in 2012-13), however ex Wisconsin it was only 13,917 (2012-13 figure ex Wisc is 13,268). Great 2012-13 year for MU, but they started getting respected in the rankings late in the year.
+ 2010-11 NC – 22% of home games were on weeknights. One of those was worst attended of season, other was not because it was Green Bay.
+ 2011-12 NC – ranked team, yes. Similar nonconference results ex Wisc when compared to 2010-11. Why? One reason is more than half of their home games were on weeknights. Only sub-13,000 games were Monday nights – worst one being a 6pm CT start.
+ To be fair, some benefit to 2012-13 and 2011-12 vs. 2010-11 because of 7 NC games vs. 9. Certainly conference games are also at play in the numbers.
+ Conf games: 2012-13: 15,815; 2011-12: 16,040; 2010-11 16,682
+ 2010-11: Played only 3 non-tourney teams. Those included DePaul and the other two were weekend games. Also; 1/1 10am Saturday game actually wasn't horribly attended.
+ 2011-12: Played 5 non-tourney teams. Worst game was vs. tourney team – but it was USF on a Tuesday. Had big crowds on weekends games.
+ 2012-13: Only 14,159 for New Year's Day 7pm CT game vs. postseason-banned UCONN, with work looming the next day for many.
+ 2012-13: Played 5 non-tourney teams, including 3 on weekdays.
+ 2012-13: Averaged 17,157 in last four games (worked way into national rankings). [2011-12: 16,634 over last four; 2010-11: 17,003 over last four].
All good points. My statement wasn't implying that there aren't good reasons for the decline in attendance. There are. Just like this year, the new conference opponents and the loss of marquee matchups against the likes of ND, Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville, etc. are very valid reasons for a slight dip in attendance, should it happen (although the Elite 8 might offset this, we shall see). The recession was also a valid reason for a dip for a couple years. As is the general trend of college basketball attendance. My point was not to suggest that MU is somehow different than the rest of the country. I understand all that.
But that doesn't mean its still not somewhat troubling or frustrating. The point is that despite all of these headwinds, MU needs to find a way to keep attendance up. Period. If Creighton is pulling in 17,000+ per game, MU can find a way to do it.
That attitude is akin to a Fortune 500 CEO saying, well there are all of these other headwinds in the economy, so its ok if our stock goes down a little bit. A good CEO would have the attitude of recognizing these headwinds, find ways to address them, and exploit growth opportunities. Accepting the present state of decline is not the right approach.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on August 15, 2013, 09:05:38 AM
Georgetown has a number of issues facing it in terms of attendance:
1) Georgetown is a national University most of our students do not stay in DC after graduation.
2) DC is a huge transplant city. Most people come to DC with other fanships already solidly in place. In addition since we're a small private school combined with point one means we play second fiddle to the university of Maryland. We're in ACC territory.
3) Due to the schools academic reputation we attract a larger percentage of students who have no interests in sports
4) DC is a major city with tons of other options( not saying milwaukee isn't but DC has more) In addition to NBA and MLB (Which milwaukee has) we have NFL, NHL and MLS franchises as well in addition to the multitude of non sport options: Smithsonian museums, the Kennedy Center, etc.
5) Lack of transportation to games for students. We used to bus students to games but that practice was stopped. It would definitely help out with attendance if they were able to bring it back.
6) Price. Many schools give their students free tickets. Georgetown students have to pay $125 for their student tickets which is obviously cheap compared to what season ticket holders pay, but not free. and the price of season tickets for alumni has been going up almost every year.
7) Opponents. The Hoyas always play a great OOC schedule. Unfortunately all our good games are almost always neutral site games either in tournaments or one off games. We get probably 1 decent home OOC game a year. Last year it was Tennessee. Remember how that game turned out?
8) Lack of postseason success. The constant flame outs in the tournament have really taken a toll. DC is a fair weather town. You can capture the interest of non affiliated fans when you're winning, but not when you're losing and unfortunately the average sport fan only cares about post season success and not regular season success.
9) Lack of Hype preseason. Despite performing well in the regular season the last few years and reaching he top 10 in the rankings at some point in every season since 2007 on 3 times since then have we been ranked in the top 25 to start the season. Georgetown usually starts off in the ARVs and then starts a slow methodical march to the top 10. There were no expectations from the media for Georgetown last year to drive ticket sales preseason. We had lost our top 3 scorers.
That being said our attendance is sad and embarrassing and I wish it was better. I do think post season success will increase our numbers back to it's 2007, 2008 levels.
4) You clearly don't understand the effect the Greenbay Packers have on the state saying Milwaukee doesn't have an NFL team is like saying Boston doesn't have one because it's the New England Patriots now not the Boston Patriots.
6) I understand that's expensive but MU students had to pay $110 the past two years and that hasn't stopped us. Unless those $15 is the difference between fans coming or not.
7) We are never ranked in the top 10 to start the season and still get fans.
8) We had good attendance numbers between our Final Four and 10-11 despite having a 5 flame outs and 2 NITs so unless GTown fans have loftier expectations I don't understand that.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 15, 2013, 09:31:35 AM
4) You clearly don't understand the effect the Greenbay Packers have on the state saying Milwaukee doesn't have an NFL team is like saying Boston doesn't have one because it's the New England Patriots now not the Boston Patriots.
6) I understand that's expensive but MU students had to pay $110 the past two years and that hasn't stopped us. Unless those $15 is the difference between fans coming or not.
7) We are never ranked in the top 10 to start the season and still get fans.
8) We had good attendance numbers between our Final Four and 10-11 despite having a 5 flame outs and 2 NITs so unless GTown fans have loftier expectations I don't understand that.
No need to be a turd, the guy admitted the numbers are sad and embarassing. What else do you want him to say?
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 15, 2013, 09:39:25 AM
No need to be a "turd" (come on who says that anymore?), the guy admitted the numbers are sad and embarrassing. What else do you want him to say?
I wasn't being a "turd" (really? Who says that?) I personally felt like at a certain point it crossed from admitting to making excuses that weren't valid. After you shave those points off I accept everything he said.
Georgetown could put two sell-outs on the schedule if they wanted to play Maryland and Syracuse. Unfortunately for them, they would also be giving up home court advantage.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 15, 2013, 09:44:48 AM
I wasn't being a "turd" (really? Who says that?) I personally felt like at a certain point it crossed from admitting to making excuses that weren't valid. After you shave those points off I accept everything he said.
I do. Turd is one of my favorite words, as in, "a lot of Marquette fans in this forum giving reasons for MU's declining attendance are really polishing a turd"
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 14, 2013, 04:32:12 PM
I honestly think the availability of nearly every game on TV has been a bad thing for in-person attendance. I live several hours' away so usually try to sell most of the weeknight games. A few years ago, I could usually sell most- even non-conference - and often for face value or something close. The last couple of seasons, it's hard to give tickets away for anything but a marquee opponent.
That said, MU's recent news about the drive for new season ticket holders sounds promising. Hope it isn't offset by older ticket holders giving them up....
The ghost of Bill Wirtz agrees with you.
Bleuteaux do you have season tickets and if so do you attend every game?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 15, 2013, 09:31:35 AM
4) You clearly don't understand the effect the Greenbay Packers have on the state saying Milwaukee doesn't have an NFL team is like saying Boston doesn't have one because it's the New England Patriots now not the Boston Patriots.
I once worked with a Canadian...big CFL fan. This was during the era of their ill-fated expansion into the United States. He was convinced that Milwaukee would be a great place for an expansion team because they don't have an NFL team of their own and therefore "have to root for the "Bears or Packers."
Sometimes people just don't get it.
Quote from: swoopem on August 15, 2013, 11:33:24 AM
Bleuteaux do you have season tickets and if so do you attend every game?
I do have season tickets. I've had them every year since I was a freshman.
I live in the Chicago area. I do not physically attend every game. I'd say I get to 8-10 games every year. Every weekend game and a few more when I am able to leave work early.
Regardless, if I understand correctly, my attendance is counted every game, since its tickets sold and not butts in seats.
So I am not the problem.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on August 15, 2013, 09:07:19 AM
That attitude is akin to a Fortune 500 CEO saying, well there are all of these other headwinds in the economy, so its ok if our stock goes down a little bit. A good CEO would have the attitude of recognizing these headwinds, find ways to address them, and exploit growth opportunities. Accepting the present state of decline is not the right approach.
The ghost of early-80's Jack Welch agrees with you. Present-day Jack Welch does not, however.
I think the 2 main difference between marquette and Georgetown is 1) that marquette is more regional school with more alumni staying close to home. Georgetown will probably bring the most fans to MSG out of any program in the new BE with Cuse and Uconn gone. So many of our alums are in NYC and then spread across not only the country but globally as well with our emphasis on international relations. We have a huge alumni presence in London.
and 2) That DC is much more of a transplant city than Milwaukee is. Every school has a large alumni base in DC because people come from all over he country and the world to work here. Teams love playing in DC because they all have large alumni bases here beyond the local competition.
And I considered including the packers and NFL for Marquette and I should have, but we still have 2 additional professional sports franchises in the city and that's not counting the teams in Baltimore who many people in DC and the DC area are fans of so we have an additional baseball and NFL team to contend with for entertainment dollars.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on August 15, 2013, 11:59:46 AM
I think the 2 main difference between marquette and Georgetown is 1) that marquette is more regional school with more alumni staying close to home.
You raise some valid points, and it's an interesting comparison since there are so many similarities. For MU grads, I'd guess 1/3 end up somewhere around Milwaukee, 1/3 end up near Chicago, and 1/3 spread out elsewhere. Comparing local markets, there's obviously a lot more to do in DC, but there's also a larger population base to draw from. Also, I think you're underestimating the effect UW-Madison has on our local market vs. Maryland on yours. I'd guess the Badgers take up more of the college sports media coverage in Milwaukee than the Terps do in DC.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 15, 2013, 09:44:48 AM
I wasn't being a "turd" (really? Who says that?) I personally felt like at a certain point it crossed from admitting to making excuses that weren't valid. After you shave those points off I accept everything he said.
Explanations aren't excuses. I see the confusion on this distinction often (so am I wrong?)
"Hey person on losing team, why did you guys lose the game?"
"Well, they played a tough game. They played better than we did and we were outcoached. But, no excuses, we have to work harder and blah blah blah"
That's not an excuse, it's an explanation.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 15, 2013, 01:11:08 PM
Explanations aren't excuses. I see the confusion on this distinction often (so am I wrong?)
"Hey person on losing team, why did you guys lose the game?"
"Well, they played a tough game. They played better than we did and we were outcoached. But, no excuses, we have to work harder and blah blah blah"
That's not an excuse, it's an explanation.
Note where I said crossed the line as in it crossed the line from explanation to excuse.
Several valid points - kinda surprising that G'Town doesn't facilitate student transportation to the games.
But even with Georgetown's more dispersed alumni base and the more "transplant" nature of the city, the DC metro area has nearly 6 million people according to the 2012 Census Bureau estimate (this does not include metro Baltimore), while the Milwaukee metro area has just over 2 million. Given the national noteriety of G'Town's basketball program, you'd think they would attract a few more of the casual fans.
Also, just like G'Town has far fewer local alumni than Maryland, Marquette is in the same boat with UW-Madison. The newspaper located about a mile from the MU campus (and 70 miles from UW-Madison) regularly gives the Badgers considerably more coverage.
Anyhow, the numbers just surprised me....
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 15, 2013, 11:37:57 AM
I once worked with a Canadian...big CFL fan. This was during the era of their ill-fated expansion into the United States. He was convinced that Milwaukee would be a great place for an expansion team because they don't have an NFL team of their own and therefore "have to root for the "Bears or Packers."
Sometimes people just don't get it.
Many people forget or are to young to know when the Packers played at County Stadium. Still today, three games belong to Milwaukee season-ticket holders for Packer games.
What have ticket prices done during the period of decline in attendance?
Quote from: mupanther on August 15, 2013, 09:49:07 PM
Many people forget or are to young to know when the Packers played at County Stadium. Still today, three games belong to Milwaukee season-ticket holders for Packer games.
Yeah, but this was back in 1994 or so.
As a die-hard fan, it sometimes makes more sense to stay at home. Live-action is easier to see stuff on a big screen, you have a laptop to get all the stats, and you actually get to see replays. I never understood why fans who pay $50 for a ticket aren't allowed to see a close call on replay. By not replaying it, it basically admits the call was wrong. As a basketball fan, I want to see the replay not to get mad but whether or not it was the right call.
Not to mention I can drink a 6 pack of quality beer for the same price as 2 lites.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 16, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
As a die-hard fan, it sometimes makes more sense to stay at home. Live-action is easier to see stuff on a big screen, you have a laptop to get all the stats, and you actually get to see replays. I never understood why fans who pay $50 for a ticket aren't allowed to see a close call on replay. By not replaying it, it basically admits the call was wrong. As a basketball fan, I want to see the replay not to get mad but whether or not it was the right call.
Not to mention I can drink a 6 pack of quality beer for the same price as 2 lites.
Sorry, I'd be hard-pressed to call anyone who would prefer to watch on TV a die-hard fan. If you want replays, watch the game from the DVR afterwards.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 16, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
As a die-hard fan, it sometimes makes more sense to stay at home. Live-action is easier to see stuff on a big screen, you have a laptop to get all the stats, and you actually get to see replays.
Whenever I watch a game at home, I get frustrated when the announcers do not acknowledge all the substitutions.
Quote from: WI_inferiority_complexes on August 16, 2013, 04:44:32 PM
Whenever I watch a game at home, I get frustrated when the announcers do not acknowledge all the substitutions.
And you never find out which row won the Palermo's Pizza.
Quote from: WI_inferiority_complexes on August 16, 2013, 04:44:32 PM
Whenever I watch a game at home, I get frustrated when the announcers do not acknowledge all the substitutions.
I hate it when they do not tell you who the foul was on.
At the game I hate it that they do not give the opposing teams heights.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on August 16, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
I never understood why fans who pay $50 for a ticket aren't allowed to see a close call on replay. By not replaying it, it basically admits the call was wrong.
In the case of baseball, it's because the umpires' union will flip out if you make them look bad.
I agree with the points made by hoyasincebirth above on Georgetown's numbers. At 33rd in the country, it's still doing very well.
A lot of factors play into attendance averages and while student turnout is, for the most part, good, season ticket comitments play a large role in building up an average. With few exceptions (Duke, Syracuse), there is always a walk-up crowd at Verizon Center which does not feel the need to commit to a season ticket package to gain admittance. Where Marquette can draw 12,000+ to sit through UMBC and Savannah State, Georgetown is drawing 7,000. When Big East play arrives, even a crowd of 15,000 ensures there will be extra seats in a 20,500 seat arena, so turnout can vary on any given game (17,000+ for Louisville, then 7,567 for Seton Hall). Add in the previously discussed factors on local alumni populations and competition for the college sports dollar (Maryland and five other D-I schools nearby) and the attendance average is not as bad as one might claim.
That having been said, I can see Georgetown's average taking a 10-20% drop this upcoming year. Unlike Milwaukee, Washington always has had a large influx of out of town and alumni fans from places like Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, et al. to drive attendance. Those fans are gone. Outside Villanova and Marquette, none of the other BE schools bring much in the way of interest for a walk-up crowd. Another factor: lower season ticket sales. Season tickets were pushed to guarantee seating at the Syracuse game.That's not coming back, so those season ticket holders and/or ticket brokers that used these seats as a lever to hold on to Syracuse seats furter affects demand.
As of August 15, there are no Top 100 non-conference opponents at home this season--all the big games are on the road. Try selling that in a $600 season ticket package without Syracuse, Loyisville, Notre Dame, Pitt, etc..
Quote from: DFW HOYA on August 18, 2013, 07:18:00 AM
I agree with the points made by hoyasincebirth above on Georgetown's numbers. At 33rd in the country, it's still doing very well.
A lot of factors play into attendance averages and while student turnout is, for the most part, good, season ticket comitments play a large role in building up an average. With few exceptions (Duke, Syracuse), there is always a walk-up crowd at Verizon Center which does not feel the need to commit to a season ticket package to gain admittance. Where Marquette can draw 12,000+ to sit through UMBC and Savannah State, Georgetown is drawing 7,000. When Big East play arrives, even a crowd of 15,000 ensures there will be extra seats in a 20,500 seat arena, so turnout can vary on any given game (17,000+ for Louisville, then 7,567 for Seton Hall). Add in the previously discussed factors on local alumni populations and competition for the college sports dollar (Maryland and five other D-I schools nearby) and the attendance average is not as bad as one might claim.
That having been said, I can see Georgetown's average taking a 10-20% drop this upcoming year. Unlike Milwaukee, Washington always has had a large influx of out of town and alumni fans from places like Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, et al. to drive attendance. Those fans are gone. Outside Villanova and Marquette, none of the other BE schools bring much in the way of interest for a walk-up crowd. Another factor: lower season ticket sales. Season tickets were pushed to guarantee seating at the Syracuse game.That's not coming back, so those season ticket holders and/or ticket brokers that used these seats as a lever to hold on to Syracuse seats furter affects demand.
As of August 15, there are no Top 100 non-conference opponents at home this season--all the big games are on the road. Try selling that in a $600 season ticket package without Syracuse, Loyisville, Notre Dame, Pitt, etc..
Sounds like Georgetown needs to beef up its non-con schedule -- starting with a regular series with Syracuse -- if it cares about attendance much.
I sure hope we can do the same and add Notre Dame (and Louisville, if it's not a pipe dream) to our non-con schedule.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 16, 2013, 04:40:32 PM
Sorry, I'd be hard-pressed to call anyone who would prefer to watch on TV a die-hard fan. If you want replays, watch the game from the DVR afterwards.
There are different kinds of die-hards. I'm not the emotional, always cheer blindly type of fan. I'm more into numbers, how the team is created and analyzing match-ups. Too many people think the die-hards are the ones who show up on an ESPN game and dress up hoping to get on tv.
I consider myself a die-hard Bucks fan. I spend countless hours on message boards, have already watched 8 complete games of the new greek player and have gone to 150 games in the last 5 years. So being able to watch the game with my full attention than worrying about talking to who ever goes with me and waiting in line for beer makes me less than a die-hard? If Junior turns the ball over, I NEED to double check if that was 3 or 4. That's just how I like the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very social guy but I prefer being able to watch sports by myself since I'm that into it and its my personality.