MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: strotty on July 25, 2013, 10:48:01 AM
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http://painttouches.com/2013/07/25/just-how-close-is-buzz-williams-to-landing-a-star-big/
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http://painttouches.com/2013/07/25/just-how-close-is-buzz-williams-to-landing-a-star-big/
Paint Touches seems to be really excited that Buzz has offered scholarships to the top centers in the class. Yippeeee. You can offer all you want. Wake me when one of those studs accepts.
And no, I don't believe any of them will (and yes, that includes Stone).
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Their articles in the offseason aren't really worth reading its just opinion pieces filled with rampant speculation. My favorite was about Buzz' most important HS recruiting class...
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Offering a stud big means little when guys like Turner are trimming their lists from 50 to 30. We do seem to be getting closer, but Looney and Zimmerman seem to be off our radar already and I'm not convinced we'll be there at the end for either Turner or Okonoboh.
Buzz is still heavy on Stone, and watching his pursuit (or lack thereof) of Tokoto and Looney, I'm convinced he wouldn't be pursuing if he didn't feel he had a solid chance. That doesn't mean we'll land him, but of the names mentioned, he's the one we seem most serious with. Though as we saw with Embiid, that doesn't always work out.
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Paint Touches seems to be really excited that Buzz has offered scholarships to the top centers in the class. Yippeeee. You can offer all you want. Wake me when one of those studs accepts.
And no, I don't believe any of them will (and yes, that includes Stone).
He better land Stone with all the advantages he has, including recruiting a friend/teammate, or a similar talent.
And now comes the onslaught of namecalling/excuse making of its no big deal if he does not, we will be just fine, yadda yadda.
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We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
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We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
But they've just shot incessant threes and lost recently.
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He better land Stone with all the advantages he has, including recruiting a friend/teammate, or a similar talent.
And now comes the onslaught of namecalling/excuse making of its no big deal if he does not, we will be just fine, yadda yadda.
You act like recruits don't have any predispositions in the matter and simply the best coach at recruiting wins out; I guy could be born and raised in chapel hill and be the top recruit in the country, but if he doesn't want to attend unc or has some other future in mind, does that make the unc coach a bad recruiter or speak poorly to their program? This comment is absurd.
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We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
How would that take us out of the equation? Not saying we'll get him, but both Gardner and CO have had plenty of opportunity getting fed in the post.
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We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
I saw that too, I don't think that hurts us at all. I'm pretty comfortable saying that if we get Stone he is going to get the ball, a lot, and we are going to win, a lot. I still think chances are slim that we actually land him though.
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We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
Have you seen Becky play? They feed their big man the ball outside of the arc and haven't won sheet--recently or historically.
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I think when you think of MU you think of guards. I know we can win and will get our bigs the ball, but I think we're not one of THE programs you associate with that type of play. Gtown with its history with bigs is more that style you think of Gtown you think Ewing, Mourning, and Hibbert with MU you think Wade Butler Wes if not just Wade
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Soooo many negative nancy comments out and about.
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I think this upcoming season for Davante could be key for the future recruiting of big men. If he goes out there next year, shows more improvement and ends up first-team all big east/gets some national recognition, it could be very beneficial in landing Stone, Ellenson, etc. Most importantly, if Davante ended up getting drafted, it could be an enormous boost to our recruiting efforts. Ideally, we would make a deep run in the tourney with Davante dominating in order to demonstrate that Marquette is a school where bigs can come, improve each year, and be fed the ball consistently. Obviously this is wishful thinking, but I don't think it is too far out of the realm of possibility.
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Wake me when one of those studs accepts.
Deal, but only if that means you aren't able to write obnoxious things on MUSCOOP while you're asleep.
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I think this upcoming season for Davante could be key for the future recruiting of big men. If he goes out there next year, shows more improvement and ends up first-team all big east/gets some national recognition, it could be very beneficial in landing Stone, Ellenson, etc. Most importantly, if Davante ended up getting drafted, it could be an enormous boost to our recruiting efforts. Ideally, we would make a deep run in the tourney with Davante dominating in order to demonstrate that Marquette is a school where bigs can come, improve each year, and be fed the ball consistently. Obviously this is wishful thinking, but I don't think it is too far out of the realm of possibility.
Netty I agree to an extent but the fact of the matter is Davante worked his ASS off to get here and was a diamond in the rough for us. Big men, even ones that are ranked very high pan out at a lower rate than any other position it seems. Take Josh Smith from UCLA, guy was ranked high and did nothing. Miss State Renardo Sidney huge recruit that wasn't that amazing in the end. These guys are tough to evaluate for the next level and even when people evaluate them as future studs it often doesn't pan out. I am fine getting those guys that work like Davante.
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With the center position open next year, I expect an off the radar recruit from JC land to show up at the door unless a smart top player realizes how good they could be if he showed
up to MU.
Wilson or Wilson, Dawson
Mayo, Anderson or Johnson
Burton or either of the 2 above, Malek Harris
McKay and Taylor
Center- I think there is PT time here and the rest of the team will be pretty good.
One player away from being really good in 2014!
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Deal, but only if that means you aren't able to write obnoxious things on MUSCOOP while you're asleep.
BOOM Roasted!
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But they've just shot incessant threes and lost recently.
Stone said he was going to work on his 3 point shooting this summer. That has UW written all over it.
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Have you seen Becky play? They feed their big man the ball outside of the arc and haven't won sheet--recently or historically.
Agreed. He should only go to Becky if he wants to be fed the ball 20 feet from the hoop. My guess is that he's actually talking about getting fed the ball inside -- something we've done pretty well with Davante and Chris.
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Stone said he was going to work on his 3 point shooting this summer. That has UW written all over it.
As a top two post player in his class that means one and done. Stone won't get NBA lottery status by floating out to the three point line and chucking threes within the Swing his freshman year. See Butch, Brian, a McDonald's AA. And Stiemsma, Greg who couldn't even crack UW's lineup. Stiesmsa's NBA success, making it as a post-up player post-Bo, and Butch's NBA flops, have to be the biggest negatives for a potential top UW center recruit.
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I think when you think of MU you think of guards. I know we can win and will get our bigs the ball, but I think we're not one of THE programs you associate with that type of play. Gtown with its history with bigs is more that style you think of Gtown you think Ewing, Mourning, and Hibbert with MU you think Wade Butler Wes if not just Wade
chicken or egg. We don't get good bigs because we don't feed them the ball or we don't feed them the ball because we don't have good bigs?
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BOOM Roasted!
Yeah, he really told me off, huh??? ::)
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We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
...And Marquette doesn't feed DG? I'm not saying he's coming, but I would think Stone has enough confidence in his game that he knows he could dominate in the MU offense. I guessed I missed the Weasels' incredibly better season last year.
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...And Marquette doesn't feed DG? I'm not saying he's coming, but I would think Stone has enough confidence in his game that he knows he could dominate in the MU offense. I guessed I missed the Weasels' incredibly better season last year.
Seriously - the idea that we don't feed the post is as antiquated as the printing press. It went the way of the dodo when Acker & the Cubillionaire graduated (loved their senior year though). This is now an equal opportunity offense - if you can score, you're gonna get touches, no matter what position you play.
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Seriously - the idea that we don't feed the post is as antiquated as the printing press. It went the way of the dodo when Acker & the Cubillionaire graduated (loved their senior year though). This is now an equal opportunity offense - if you can score, you're gonna get touches, no matter what position you play.
I think that was how it was under Crean. I heard plenty of announcers complain this year that Indiana was not getting the ball into Zeller. Buzz's style is different from Crean's, but it takes time to change people's perception.
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He better land Stone with all the advantages he has, including recruiting a friend/teammate, or a similar talent.
And now comes the onslaught of namecalling/excuse making of its no big deal if he does not, we will be just fine, yadda yadda.
it's not name calling or excuse making that you get...it's people telling you to put your money where your mouth it. if you look at your children and say, "you better do this or that"k and they don't do it, i assume you have a consequence for them. if i tell an employee they better do something and they don't, the consequence is severe. you act like your this tough guy on a computer that thinks he can improve MU bball by stating what buzz better do. my question...what if he doesn't land stone? when you answer that question, then you realize that buzz doesn't have to land stone. so in that case, you just sound like a babbling fool...and that's where the name calling comes in.
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it's not name calling or excuse making that you get...it's people telling you to put your money where your mouth it. if you look at your children and say, "you better do this or that"k and they don't do it, i assume you have a consequence for them. if i tell an employee they better do something and they don't, the consequence is severe. you act like your this tough guy on a computer that thinks he can improve MU bball by stating what buzz better do. my question...what if he doesn't land stone? when you answer that question, then you realize that buzz doesn't have to land stone. so in that case, you just sound like a babbling fool...and that's where the name calling comes in.
And why does he not have to land Stone? That is your opinion. Why recruit him with that logic? My point is, he has not landed a stud big-by that I mean highly ranked-out of HS yet. And yes, you just started the name calling--act like a tough guy--babbling fool, etc. And by the way, what does put your money where your mouth mean to you? Buzz needs to land a stud big out of his backyard, or elsewhere. That is my opinion--just as you have your opinion that "No he does not". But thanks for the name calling--hope it made your day! Did it make you feel like a tough guy on the computer?
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And why does he not have to land Stone? That is your opinion. Why recruit him with that logic? My point is, he has not landed a stud big-by that I mean highly ranked-out of HS yet. And yes, you just started the name calling--act like a tough guy--babbling fool, etc. And by the way, what does put your money where your mouth mean to you? Buzz needs to land a stud big out of his backyard, or elsewhere. That is my opinion--just as you have your opinion that "No he does not". But thanks for the name calling--hope it made your day! Did it make you feel like a tough guy on the computer?
See: Last 3 years. He does not HAVE to land Stone, because he has proven he can have plenty of success with less heralded bigs.
Since your opinion is Buzz HAS to land Stone, what are you going to do if he doesn't? Are you going to stop watching MU bball? Or are you going to stop posting on Scoop?
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Soooo many negative nancy comments out and about.
+1
Because Stone didn't come sprinting to MU the second Buzz offered, rather than be
judicious and methodical in recruiting/college choice (totally crazy idea!), no way he's
coming to MU...might as well give up. Que the Price is Right losing horn, and sad
trombone mp3s on a continuous loop until the season starts.
We won't get Stone. He made some comment about wanting to go to a team that feeds the Big Man and wins recently. Wisconsin stands a better chance sadly.
You HAVE watched our team play recently, right? The Miami game, I'm specifically thinking of,
where we completely TORCHED them inside with OTule and Gardner? As for winning, don't exactly
need my TI-81 to figure out we've done more of that than Wisconsin lately. To say you're reading
too much, too negative, and drawing completely idiotic conclusions from that singular statement is
about the most diplomatic thing I can say.
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A little bit of history here.
Al's early successes were with teams that looked a lot like Buzz's teams look. Good guards, strong forwards and adequate centers. The first really great big man we had at Marquette was Jim Chones, followed in rapid succession by outstanding power forwards in Maurice Lucas, Larry McNeill and Bo Ellis. Our next great center was Jerome Whitehead and after that, I'd suggest it was Jimmy Mac.
While Al was here, we got to the same point we did last spring in 1969 with an athletic, short, jumping team. No Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on that team. We were one point away from the Final Four.
I really don't think we have to have a center, especially in the college game, if we're playing with guys like we have on our team next year. Davante and Chris are big pluses, but it's the inside out game that matters. It isn't like the 1970s or even the 1980s where a dominant center wins you games. The raw combination of good forwards and outside shooting neutralizes even the best centers!
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It's important to remember that Coach who gets great results with lower rated players + Higher rated player = even better results does not always hold true.
There are countless examples of this, but the one that I think best illustrates it especially for marquette is Jamie Dixon at Pitt. Pitt's teams excelled as gritty tough lower ranked players. Off that success Jamie was able to recruit highly regarded players including several McDonald's all american Big Men. Guess what that's when he's had his least amount of success. Most college coaches are system coaches. It's much more important to get players that fit your system than players that are highly regarded. Sure if you can get players that are highly regarded and fit your system all the better but the system fit is more important. Marquette's system is based on toughness. A lot of the highly ranked guys aren't as willing to do the dirty work like marquette players are.
Not saying marquette would necessarily follow exactly what happened to pitt, but getting higher ranked players isn't an automatic path to success.
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He better land Stone with all the advantages he has, including recruiting a friend/teammate, or a similar talent.
OK, what if he doesn't? Are you going to take your loyalty elsewhere, maybe start rooting for Duquesne?
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I guarantee Stone doesn't come to MU and when he commits he will say he went to the program due to their history with bigs. We don't have a history with bigs. Has MU produced an NBA center in the last 15 years?
Bucky has even though Bucky doesn't use them like we do.
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And why does he not have to land Stone? That is your opinion. Why recruit him with that logic? My point is, he has not landed a stud big-by that I mean highly ranked-out of HS yet. And yes, you just started the name calling--act like a tough guy--babbling fool, etc. And by the way, what does put your money where your mouth mean to you? Buzz needs to land a stud big out of his backyard, or elsewhere. That is my opinion--just as you have your opinion that "No he does not". But thanks for the name calling--hope it made your day! Did it make you feel like a tough guy on the computer?
By your logic, you would have preferred Fab Melo (5-star) over Davante
or
Evan Anderson the Stud from Eau Clair instead of Davante
or
Several other 4-stars who were rated above Davante or 15 3-stars rated ahead of Davante.
He has been better a better college player than any center from the 2010 class except Sullinger, Adrean Payne, and Georgui Deng.
But yet you argue for a one-and-done 5 star or a 4 star stiff. I don't get your logic at all.
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Defines how you define center...Offensively he has been a really good center yes. Defensively he has a lot to learn and his rebounding isn't that amazing either. We all love Ox but I think that praise is a bit generous
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You HAVE watched our team play recently, right? The Miami game, I'm specifically thinking of,
where we completely TORCHED them inside with OTule and Gardner? As for winning, don't exactly
need my TI-81 to figure out we've done more of that than Wisconsin lately. To say you're reading
too much, too negative, and drawing completely idiotic conclusions from that singular statement is
about the most diplomatic thing I can say.
Heh. I read that same quote and thought "well, that's a good sign for MU."
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Defines how you define center...Offensively he has been a really good center yes. Defensively he has a lot to learn and his rebounding isn't that amazing either.
Depends on how you want to define defense. Gardner was one of the 500 best players in the country in percentage of shots blocked while he was on the floor.
I won't bother with the rebounding point because we all know about how Buzz jokes about not counting rebounding your own misses.
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Depends on how you want to define defense. Gardner was one of the 500 best players in the country in percentage of shots blocked while he was on the floor.
I won't bother with the rebounding point because we all know about how Buzz jokes about not counting rebounding your own misses.
One of the top 500 best? Man that's solid...
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Yeah, he really told me off, huh??? ::)
yes. he did
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A little bit of history here.
Al's early successes were with teams that looked a lot like Buzz's teams look. Good guards, strong forwards and adequate centers. The first really great big man we had at Marquette was Jim Chones, followed in rapid succession by outstanding power forwards in Maurice Lucas, Larry McNeill and Bo Ellis. Our next great center was Jerome Whitehead and after that, I'd suggest it was Jimmy Mac.
While Al was here, we got to the same point we did last spring in 1969 with an athletic, short, jumping team. No Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on that team. We were one point away from the Final Four.
I really don't think we have to have a center, especially in the college game, if we're playing with guys like we have on our team next year. Davante and Chris are big pluses, but it's the inside out game that matters. It isn't like the 1970s or even the 1980s where a dominant center wins you games. The raw combination of good forwards and outside shooting neutralizes even the best centers!
Lucas played center for MU and would be the starting center on any of Buzz's teams so far.
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Lucas played center for MU and would be the starting center on any of Buzz's teams so far.
You do not need a center but you do need a big body, after this year there is none. Buzz's best team should be next year, but it does not mean they will go as far in the tourny. Have
to get lucky, like beating Davidson at the buzzer. The 2 headed monster next year in Gardner and O'tule will be sorely missed the following year. Duane Wilson plays like he could play
they will be better than last year.
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A little bit of history here.
Al's early successes were with teams that looked a lot like Buzz's teams look. Good guards, strong forwards and adequate centers. The first really great big man we had at Marquette was Jim Chones, followed in rapid succession by outstanding power forwards in Maurice Lucas, Larry McNeill and Bo Ellis. Our next great center was Jerome Whitehead and after that, I'd suggest it was Jimmy Mac.
While Al was here, we got to the same point we did last spring in 1969 with an athletic, short, jumping team. No Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on that team. We were one point away from the Final Four.
I really don't think we have to have a center, especially in the college game, if we're playing with guys like we have on our team next year. Davante and Chris are big pluses, but it's the inside out game that matters. It isn't like the 1970s or even the 1980s where a dominant center wins you games. The raw combination of good forwards and outside shooting neutralizes even the best centers!
I agree. The difference between now and when I and Al were at Marquette are considerable...no shot clock, no 3 point play and the game was played more tightly as the refs back then would not allow the physical contact they allow today. I think Buzz is doing great, recruiting 6-7 to 6-9 switchables. What we lack is outside shooting. If we had guys like Diener, Novak, Crowder, DJO and even Lazar who shot consistently with the frontline we have today we would be a formidable team. Hopefully Mayo and this incoming class will give us some outside shooting this season to free up our "bigs" inside.
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There is no doubt that under Buzz we are feeding the bigs as part of the game plan. More than before. Clearly, there is a huge opportunity for a quality big to be a super stat at Marquette and to help take this talented team deep into the tourney and maybe win it.
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And why does he not have to land Stone? That is your opinion. Why recruit him with that logic? My point is, he has not landed a stud big-by that I mean highly ranked-out of HS yet. And yes, you just started the name calling--act like a tough guy--babbling fool, etc. And by the way, what does put your money where your mouth mean to you? Buzz needs to land a stud big out of his backyard, or elsewhere. That is my opinion--just as you have your opinion that "No he does not". But thanks for the name calling--hope it made your day! Did it make you feel like a tough guy on the computer?
Another predictable post from wee willie troller . . .
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And why does he not have to land Stone? That is your opinion. Why recruit him with that logic? My point is, he has not landed a stud big-by that I mean highly ranked-out of HS yet. And yes, you just started the name calling--act like a tough guy--babbling fool, etc. And by the way, what does put your money where your mouth mean to you? Buzz needs to land a stud big out of his backyard, or elsewhere. That is my opinion--just as you have your opinion that "No he does not". But thanks for the name calling--hope it made your day! Did it make you feel like a tough guy on the computer?
no, i don't have an ounce of tough guy in me (hence the words babbling fool)...i stand about 5'10" on a good day, and haven't lifted a weight since college. i just like messing with you because i figure anyone that gets on the computer and demands buzz williams must do something has to be easy to mess with.
again, you said buzz MUST land a big like diamond...my question is what if he doesn't, you going to recommend he be fired? all buzz can do is try his best, if it's not enough, MU isn't going to can him for it because i don't believe there's a coach out there, that would come to MU, that could recruit better than buzz. therefore, buzz doesn't have to land diamond, and your posts demanding things of him are hilarious to me. i'm sure buzz is more aware of his recruiting needs then you'll ever be. if larry williams talked to buzz the way you state things...we'd be without a coach.
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no, i don't have an ounce of tough guy in me (hence the words babbling fool)...i stand about 5'10" on a good day, and haven't lifted a weight since college. i just like messing with you because i figure anyone that gets on the computer and demands buzz williams must do something has to be easy to mess with.
again, you said buzz MUST land a big like diamond...my question is what if he doesn't, you going to recommend he be fired? all buzz can do is try his best, if it's not enough, MU isn't going to can him for it because i don't believe there's a coach out there, that would come to MU, that could recruit better than buzz. therefore, buzz doesn't have to land diamond, and your posts demanding things of him are hilarious to me. i'm sure buzz is more aware of his recruiting needs then you'll ever be. if larry williams talked to buzz the way you state things...we'd be without a coach.
Oh my--I am sorry that you are an expert on college recruiting--and I am not. I have not made demands on Williams--but I do have opinions, just like you do. But with your inflated ego, you think your opinions are more valid. Like saying that nobody could recruit better than Buzz, and then cutely qualifying it with "that would come to MU". Maybe, maybe not. I am glad you get some humor out of my posts. Don't know how Larry Williams talks to Buzz--neither do you. I have never met or spent time with Buzz--maybe you have.
Now for some opinions: Yes Buzz is a good recruiter, and a pretty good game coach, with a few exceptions.
No, Buzz has not recruited a stud big man out of HS--hopefully he will. But to continue to give him a pass for a variety of reasons/excuses is beyond me. He has every advantage with Stone, so I do have hopes he will land him. No I would not fire him if he did not, but would be highly disappointed.
I like how you "figure" that anybody on a computer who makes demands on Buzz must be easy to mess with. If that's how you get your jollies, good luck with that philosophy in life. By the way, I have not made demands of him, because I have no authority to do so. But I do have opinions, just like you do. And my opinion is that he is a good recruiter, but until he lands that quality big that is highly regarded out of HS, that jury is out. Roseboro, McMorrow, MBao, Durley should prove that. He can shut me up by landing Stone or another stud big. I like that he is recruiting them, and hopefully soon he will land one.
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Buzz has not recruited a stud big man out of HS--hopefully he will. But to continue to give him a pass for a variety of reasons/excuses is beyond me. He has every advantage with Stone, so I do have hopes he will land him. No I would not fire him if he did not, but would be highly disappointed.
Ya hear that, Buzz? Land Diamond Stone or a fan on an Internet chat board will be highly disappointed!
If that doesn't motivate Buzz, I don't know what will.
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Ya hear that, Buzz? Land Diamond Stone or a fan on an Internet chat board will be highly disappointed!
If that doesn't motivate Buzz, I don't know what will.
hey Buzz--ya hear that from MU82? If that doesn't motivate Buzz, I don't know what will. Maybe a chat with Larry Williams, who needs to learn how to talk to people, like MU82 and a few others.
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As a top two post player in his class that means one and done. Stone won't get NBA lottery status by floating out to the three point line and chucking threes within the Swing his freshman year. See Butch, Brian, a McDonald's AA. And Stiemsma, Greg who couldn't even crack UW's lineup. Stiesmsa's NBA success, making it as a post-up player post-Bo, and Butch's NBA flops, have to be the biggest negatives for a potential top UW center recruit.
Who was the last Wisconsin HS center to be ranked in the top 20? Oh yeah, Evan Anderson. Anyone know whatever happened to him?
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hey Buzz--ya hear that from MU82? If that doesn't motivate Buzz, I don't know what will. Maybe a chat with Larry Williams, who needs to learn how to talk to people, like MU82 and a few others.
zzzzzz
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IMO, if MU has a roster with a 1/2 dozen guys in the 6'7-6'9 range who are versatile and can play defense, I don't care if there is a true 5 on the roster. In college hoops, in a given year, there are only a couple of dominant bigs anyway. If an opponent has a skilled 7 footer, then rotate a bunch of guys on him and attack the guards trying to get him the ball. I would happily accept a roster with a rotation of 6 guys with the size and skills of STjr and JWilson and no true center.
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Buzz has built a roster with size,depth,athleticism,length,quickness,and toughness. I am so impressed by our roster compared to a few years back top to bottom. Even with assistants leaving theres no letup. Good players wanting to come play for him in
Milwaukee and the shape that the program is in now, I'm more pumped than I have been since Al was here.