Article in USA Today states that Penn Station renovations have to happen so MSG permit will only go ten more years...
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2013/07/25/madison-square-garden-new-york-knicks-rangers-penn-station/2585787/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2013/07/25/madison-square-garden-new-york-knicks-rangers-penn-station/2585787/)
Didn't they just spend $1 billion renovating that place?
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 25, 2013, 09:47:48 AM
Didn't they just spend $1 billion renovating that place?
I believe you are right. They can't be happy with this decision.
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 25, 2013, 09:47:48 AM
Didn't they just spend $1 billion renovating that place?
The renovation is ongoing. And yes, it's close to $1 billion.
I don't see MSG going away or without another arena built nearby. You would have alot of upset New Yorkers if the Knicks became homeless.
Spike Lee will raise hell.
Maybe they'll put it in Indianapolis.
Quote from: INDYWarrior on July 25, 2013, 11:29:46 AM
I don't see MSG going away or without another arena built nearby. You would have alot of upset New Yorkers if the Knicks became homeless.
Spike Lee will raise hell.
Well it is the 4th MSG. It's been done before.
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 25, 2013, 12:35:44 PM
Well it is the 4th MSG. It's been done before.
Yep, its about NYC and Manhattan.
I was there in in 2002 for Coaches vs Cancer / Villanova and then not back until this March for the BET.
Wow...what an amazing transformation. It truly lives up to its name: World's Greatest Arena.
Why does the Garden need to move in order to renovate the train station? Do tracks run under the stadium or something?
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on July 25, 2013, 12:48:51 PM
Why does the Garden need to move in order to renovate the train station? Do tracks run under the stadium or something?
Yes, Penn Station is below MSG.
Quote from: The Lens on July 25, 2013, 12:45:44 PM
I was there in in 2002 for Coaches vs Cancer / Villanova and then not back until this March for the BET.
Wow...what an amazing transformation. It truly lives up to its name: World's Greatest Arena.
I've only heard of "The World's Most Famous Arena" being its nickname
Quote from: MarquetteDano on July 25, 2013, 09:55:58 AM
I believe you are right. They can't be happy with this decision.
They knew that going in. The money was in part to make them change their mind. That said I bet its closer to 15-20 years on when they have to move out since NY has to come up with the details to expand the train station and I bet Dolan can slow it down. By that time, the new modern arenas will have come out and they will 'need' to build a new one anyways.
Yeah ten years is a lot of time to figure this out. Perhaps Dolan is just going to have to ante up more.
The 2nd Ave Subway on the UES has been being worked on since 1929. I'll take the over on 10 years for the start of Penn Station construction.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on July 25, 2013, 02:06:52 PM
I've only heard of "The World's Most Famous Arena" being its nickname
My bad, forgot the slogan, but still I was really impressed. It's special.
Ten years? That's a lot of mayoral sexting between now and then.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on July 25, 2013, 04:21:10 PM
Ten years? That's a lot of mayoral wannabe sexting between now and then.
fixed
Quote from: INDYWarrior on July 25, 2013, 11:29:46 AM
I don't see MSG going away or without another arena built nearby. You would have alot of upset New Yorkers if the Knicks became homeless.
Spike Lee will raise hell.
No doubt since MSG owns the Knicks!
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 25, 2013, 09:47:48 AM
Didn't they just spend $1 billion renovating that place?
This sounds like a government run operation
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2013, 12:32:06 PM
This sounds like a government run operation
Privately funded.
Quote from: TinyTim on July 27, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
Privately funded.
I'm talking about the planning. You allow for someone (public, private, hybrid) to spend that kind of money and then you basically have to shltcan it 10 years later? WTF. Who was doing the long term assessment here? Sounds like a gov't run operation.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2013, 12:43:54 PM
I'm talking about the planning. You allow for someone (public, private, hybrid) to spend that kind of money and then you basically have to shltcan it 10 years later? WTF. Who was doing the long term assessment here? Sounds like a gov't run operation.
So true!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 27, 2013, 12:43:54 PM
I'm talking about the planning. You allow for someone (public, private, hybrid) to spend that kind of money and then you basically have to shltcan it 10 years later? WTF. Who was doing the long term assessment here? Sounds like a gov't run operation.
Oh. I guess you don't find it necessary for municipalities to enforce leases. NYC never gave MSG any indication that they were going to extend their lease. Dolan thought he could strong arm them into extending it.
You are kind of a simpleton aren't you.
Quote from: TinyTim on July 27, 2013, 12:37:54 PM
Privately funded.
Really? I find that hard to believe. The Cubs have pretty deep pockets, but they needed some serious taxpayer involvement to push through this $500 million renovation plan for Wrigley. It seems like the ROI on that would be pretty darn difficult to realize. I just have to think the city would throw down for that renovation seeing as MSG is a basically a landmark (not sure if it actually is recognized as such) and huge attraction--like Wrigley.
Quote from: TinyTim on July 27, 2013, 02:47:07 PM
Oh. I guess you don't find it necessary for municipalities to enforce leases. NYC never gave MSG any indication that they were going to extend their lease. Dolan thought he could strong arm them into extending it.
You are kind of a simpleton aren't you.
Don't think so, but I know Dolan is. We've been butting heads against him for decades. If he was truly told this would happen but he invested the money anyway, then he's an idiot. But I also believe in 10 years, MSG is still standing right where it is today. Just a hunch.
Quote from: windyplayer on July 28, 2013, 10:28:57 PM
Really? I find that hard to believe. The Cubs have pretty deep pockets, but they needed some serious taxpayer involvement to push through this $500 million renovation plan for Wrigley. It seems like the ROI on that would be pretty darn difficult to realize. I just have to think the city would throw down for that renovation seeing as MSG is a basically a landmark (not sure if it actually is recognized as such) and huge attraction--like Wrigley.
Taxpayer involvement? Ricketts' is 100% paying for everything without any tax breaks.
Quote from: PTM on July 29, 2013, 10:40:09 AM
Taxpayer involvement? Ricketts' is 100% paying for everything without any tax breaks.
Read last few paragraphs...small, but there is some tax breaks for Cubbies
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9505804/city-chicago-approves-500-million-wrigley-field-renovations
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 28, 2013, 10:42:29 PM
Don't think so, but I know Dolan is. We've been butting heads against him for decades. If he was truly told this would happen but he invested the money anyway, then he's an idiot. But I also believe in 10 years, MSG is still standing right where it is today. Just a hunch.
I agree with you. However this runs counter to your simplistic claim of a "government run operation." As usual, a little bit more in-depth analysis is needed.
Quote from: TinyTim on July 30, 2013, 08:48:12 AM
I agree with you. However this runs counter to your simplistic claim of a "government run operation." As usual, a little bit more in-depth analysis is needed.
Guilty as charged
MSG will absolutely move. Its unlikely to happen in 10 years but 15 or 20 is close to a guarantee. Increasing neighborhood density and renovating Penn are top priorities for the city council. Really, at this point, the argument is nothing but political. Bloomberg is getting back at Dolan for blocking the bid for a new arena on the westside that was pivatol to the olympics bid. Bloomie will be gone in less than two years...
The Javits site is rumored to be the future site of an arena...and real estate speculators certainly believe it, too.
Quote from: Atticus on July 30, 2013, 10:28:08 AM
MSG will absolutely move. Its unlikely to happen in 10 years but 15 or 20 is close to a guarantee. Increasing neighborhood density and renovating Penn are top priorities for the city council. Really, at this point, the argument is nothing but political. Bloomberg is getting back at Dolan for blocking the bid for a new arena on the westside that was pivatol to the olympics bid. Bloomie will be gone in less than two years...
The Javits site is rumored to be the future site of an arena...and real estate speculators certainly believe it, too.
Sounds like the 15 to 20 year horizon is more likely based on articles from the last few days.
Maybe it's the start of this?
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080112181442/en.futurama/images/7/70/Madison_Cube_Garden.jpg)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 30, 2013, 08:43:08 AM
Read last few paragraphs...small, but there is some tax breaks for Cubbies
http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/9505804/city-chicago-approves-500-million-wrigley-field-renovations
Just about every municipality with a stadium issue would kill to only have to give this kind of tax break.
Quote from: MU82 on July 30, 2013, 01:58:08 PM
Just about every municipality with a stadium issue would kill to only have to give this kind of tax break.
And they are in-line with what many businesses get when working with municipalities.
Quote from: Atticus on July 30, 2013, 10:28:08 AM
MSG will absolutely move. Its unlikely to happen in 10 years but 15 or 20 is close to a guarantee. Increasing neighborhood density and renovating Penn are top priorities for the city council. Really, at this point, the argument is nothing but political. Bloomberg is getting back at Dolan for blocking the bid for a new arena on the westside that was pivatol to the olympics bid. Bloomie will be gone in less than two years...
The Javits site is rumored to be the future site of an arena...and real estate speculators certainly believe it, too.
I might be wrong, but wasn't the Javits site where the previous MSG was located?