So seeing as there seems to be some roster chat in every thread I thought may as well make one thread about the roster the upcoming year. Heres my projected lineup for this year
PG: Derrick Wilson/Duane Wilson
SG: Mayo/JJJ/Burton/Thomas
SF: Jamil/Juan/Burton
PF: McKay/Jamil/Juan
C: Otule/Gardner/Mckay
I see Derrick starting the entire season but Duane getting more minutes. Similar to what we saw from Oxtule last year. I think Buzz has Mayo start the year also as a trial run with little room for error. JJJ, Juan or even Burton may get more run as the season goes on if Mayo doesnt play well. There are a lot of options which is a very nice problem to have. Also, that is a monster frontcourt in terms of size 6'11" 6'9" 6'8"
Totally forgot about Stevie Taylor (probably because of his injury) if hes completely healthy he backs up McKay at the 4.
I think Juan is going to be much better than people are thinking.
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 22, 2013, 05:33:29 PM
I think Juan is going to be much better than people are thinking.
Yup, hes gonna be a seasoned guy this year, at we saw spurts of good stuff from him last season. Jamil is gonna be amazing too.
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 22, 2013, 05:33:29 PM
I think Juan is going to be much better than people are thinking.
+1
Through the years, Coach Williams has had a knack of coming up with some starting teams that none of us could have imagined before the season began.. In his earlier years at Marquette it often took him half a season to get the starting five and the rotation "right." An example, would the pee-wee team with Acker at the point and Hayward often at the five.
If one thinks of Coach Williams' ability to think out of the proverbial box, and combine it with the freshman players not getting a lot of minutes under the Williams' system, one might conclude that Mayo plays the point and Juan starts at the two. One could also speculate that Coach Williams might become even more "creative" with his front line and his two bigs.
It is going to be really interesting/fun to see how the team rotation gets put together, and how the Warriors do this year. But, then again, every year under Coach Williams has been great interesting/fun, as well as being great "theatre."
I just really hope that the quickness of our newcomers is such that Buzz can turn loose a version of '40-minutes-of-hell'
This might be the 1st year I would be OK redshirting a healthy player (Dawson) he is the only guy I don't see having a shot at being in the rotation.
With 12 guys really trying to get 9 or 10 spots in the rotation, I think it would be a little hard for me to predict who is going to get minutes.
2012/13 we had 4 guys +25 2 +17 3 +10
2011/12 we had 5 guys +24 3 +17 0 +10
2010/11 we had 4 guys +27 3 +17 0 +10
My prediction is 2 guys +25 4 + 17 4 +10.
Think about how hard minutes are going to be on the wing: 120 (SG, SF, PF) Mayo, JJ, Jake, DB, JW,JA, JM,ST. If you figure JW is our best player and is going to play 30 mins per game. That is now means you have 7 guys trying to get 90 minutes. That is 13 mins per game on AVG.
a few questions come to mind:
1)will MAYO get more then 2 minutes per game at PG?
2)will CO and DG play more thjen 2 minutes per game on the floor together?
3)How much will ST injury set him back.
Quote from: UticaBusBarn on July 23, 2013, 07:36:29 AM
Through the years, Coach Williams has had a knack of coming up with some starting teams that none of us could have imagined before the season began.. In his earlier years at Marquette it often took him half a season to get the starting five and the rotation "right." An example, would the pee-wee team with Acker at the point and Hayward often at the five.
If one thinks of Coach Williams' ability to think out of the proverbial box, and combine it with the freshman players not getting a lot of minutes under the Williams' system, one might conclude that Mayo plays the point and Juan starts at the two. One could also speculate that Coach Williams might become even more "creative" with his front line and his two bigs.
It is going to be really interesting/fun to see how the team rotation gets put together, and how the Warriors do this year. But, then again, every year under Coach Williams has been great interesting/fun, as well as being great "theatre."
I wondered about Mayo possibly playing point. However, if you assume Mayo and Anderson are the starting guards would the pioint guard be Anderson? It could be Mayo brings the ball up and then Anderson runs the offense. Anderson is the much better passer.
Quote from: bilsu on July 23, 2013, 09:54:46 AM
I wondered about Mayo possibly playing point. However, if you assume Mayo and Anderson are the starting guards would the pioint guard be Anderson? It could be Mayo brings the ball up and then Anderson runs the offense. Anderson is the much better passer.
Juan is a "guard" like Lockett was a guard last year. That is the position he will play...not the Vander position from last year. Wilson, Mayo and Juan will start IMO.
Many players can play multiple postisions, so I think it makes more sense to project minutes. Some players will play every game, while others may play only a few.
My average minutes include all games whether the player plays or not.
My prediction
Jamil Wilson 29 (2, 3, 4 & 5)
Davante Gardner 25 (4&5)
Juan Anderson 19 (1,2,3,4)
Duane Wilson 18 (1 & 2)
Otule 18 (5)
Derrick Wilson 18 (1)
Deonte Burton 17 (2,3 &4)
Jameel Mckay 17 (3,4 &)
Taylor 15 (3,4 &5)
Mayo 15 (1&2)
JJJ 6 (2&3)
Thomas 2 (2&3)
Dawson 1 (1&2)
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 23, 2013, 10:05:51 AM
Juan is a "guard" like Lockett was a guard last year. That is the position he will play...not the Vander position from last year. Wilson, Mayo and Juan will start IMO.
I do not think Juan is similar to Lockett at all. Besides that the small forward spot will be taken up mostly by Burton, McKay, Jamil Wilson and Steve Taylor. Juan will play the 2.
Quote from: bilsu on July 23, 2013, 10:15:07 AM
I do not think Juan is similar to Lockett at all.
I disagree. But that really isn't the point. The point is that is the position he will be playing.
All I can say is that this team is sooooo deep that we have an uncanny ability to wear an opponent down at any position. ANY POSITION!
I can't remember -- going back to the Al days -- when we had a team this deep and top-to-bottom talented. We've had more talented players in any given year at Marquette (i.e., Chones, Lucas, Thompson, Meminger, Lee, Ellis, DWade, Rivers, McIllivaine, the amigos) but nothing like what is awaiting us this year. We're probably 10 deep on a 12 person team!
I live in the Midwest and I can hardly wait for December to see what we can do!
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 23, 2013, 10:05:51 AM
Juan is a "guard" like Lockett was a guard last year. That is the position he will play...not the Vander position from last year. Wilson, Mayo and Juan will start IMO.
So you don't think that Jamil will move more into the 3 role? That's the main reason I don't see Juan starting. I thought the 3 would be Jamil/Juan and the 2 would be Mayo/JJJ.
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 23, 2013, 12:13:47 PM
So you don't think that Jamil will move more into the 3 role? That's the main reason I don't see Juan starting. I thought the 3 would be Jamil/Juan and the 2 would be Mayo/JJJ.
I think the starters will be De. Wilson, Mayo, Juan, Jamil and Otule.
Would this be the first time a scholarshipped senior isn't starting under Buzz? Would love to see Davante at PF Otule at C Jamil at SF Mayo SG and Derrick at PG, not always but in certain situations thatd be one tall and experienced lineup
We are strong and deep along the frontline (3,4 &5) with not enough minutes to go around.
Retunring guards are Mayo, Wilson and Thomas. Add in Wilson, Dawson and JJJ and you have 6 guards half of which have no experience. Someone from the frontline is going to move to the two. The only options are Juan, Jamil Wilson or Burton. Assuming Buzz plans on the 2-3 being interchangeable than the 2 is Juan and the three is Jamil Wilson as they can both play the 2 & 3.
The way I see it
5. Otule/Gardner
4. McKay/Taylor
3. Wilson/Burton
2. Anderson/Mayo
1. Wilson/Wilson
I actually think that the starting lineup for the Ohio St game will be Otule, Gardner, Jamil Wilson, Derrick Wilson and either Juan or Mayo. I think it will be Juan, because you you have to factor in Buzz's feeling about a player. History has shown that Buzz likes Juan a lot more than he likes Mayo, so I think Mayo would clearly have to beat Juan out to start over him.
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 23, 2013, 12:46:56 PM
I think the starters will be De. Wilson, Mayo, Juan, Jamil and Otule.
I might Tend to agree, but wonder if the 2nd unit might be better then the 1st. DU wilson, Jake/JJ, Deonte ,Steve/Jameel, Big D.
I think If Steve Did not get hurt he would have started this year instead of Juan. The reason I would like to see that is I would perfer to not have Jamil get a few quick fouls guarding a PF in the post.
Quote from: bilsu on July 23, 2013, 10:15:07 AM
I do not think Juan is similar to Lockett at all. Besides that the small forward spot will be taken up mostly by Burton, McKay, Jamil Wilson and Steve Taylor. Juan will play the 2.
What position is the 2?
Quote from: kmwtrucks on July 23, 2013, 01:24:42 PM
I might Tend to agree, but wonder if the 2nd unit might be better then the 1st. DU wilson, Jake/JJ, Deonte ,Steve/Jameel, Big D.
I think If Steve Did not get hurt he would have started this year instead of Juan. The reason I would like to see that is I would perfer to not have Jamil get a few quick fouls guarding a PF in the post.
Exactly--the second unit would be better than the first. I am not trying to dis , De. Wilson, Otule or Mayo, but they are limited. If Otule starts because of his "defense", then Gardner should start at PF because of his offense, hands, touch FT's etc. I do not see what warrants Anderson starting, or Mayo, both have been way too inconsistent. And De. Wilson brings nothing offensively. IMO, the best starting line up would be:
C Otule/McKay
PF Gardner
SF Ja. Wilson/Burton
2G Whoever emerges between JJJ and Burton
PG Du. Wilson
The other switchables can fill in the minutes as subs.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 23, 2013, 02:26:03 PM
Exactly--the second unit would be better than the first. I am not trying to dis , De. Wilson, Otule or Mayo, but they are limited. If Otule starts because of his "defense", then Gardner should start at PF because of his offense, hands, touch FT's etc. I do not see what warrants Anderson starting, or Mayo, both have been way too inconsistent. And De. Wilson brings nothing offensively. IMO, the best starting line up would be:
C Otule/McKay
PF Gardner
SF Ja. Wilson/Burton
2G Whoever emerges between JJJ and Burton
PG Du. Wilson
The other switchables can fill in the minutes as subs.
Agree, but what about Mayo as 2G?
Quote from: kmwtrucks on July 23, 2013, 01:24:42 PM
I might Tend to agree, but wonder if the 2nd unit might be better then the 1st. DU wilson, Jake/JJ, Deonte ,Steve/Jameel, Big D.
I think If Steve Did not get hurt he would have started this year instead of Juan. The reason I would like to see that is I would perfer to not have Jamil get a few quick fouls guarding a PF in the post.
I'd set the over/under on Jake's MPG at 5 this season. No way JJJ is going to back up Jake Thomas.
Quote from: kilbournave on July 24, 2013, 09:16:05 AM
I'd set the over/under on Jake's MPG at 5 this season. No way JJJ is going to back up Jake Thomas.
By Big East Play these will be the players getting the most minutes and playing at crunch time:
Du Wilson
Mayo
Wilson
Taylor
Gardner/Otule (a lot of subbing for D and O)
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 24, 2013, 10:10:36 AM
By Big East Play these will be the players getting the most minutes and playing at crunch time:
Du Wilson
Mayo
Wilson
Taylor
Gardner/Otule (a lot of subbing for D and O)
Taylor is a big question mark coming off knee surgery, I do not see it.
Best lineup:
Du Wilson / De Wilson
Mayo / JJJ
Jamil / Burton / Juan
McKay / Taylor
Davante / Otule
Realistic lineup:
Derrick Wilson / Du Wilson
Mayo / JJJ / Burton
Juan / Jamil / Burton - Jamil doesn't start to stay outta foul trouble
McKay / Taylor
Otule / Davante
Quote from: oneposteagle on July 24, 2013, 11:16:05 AM
Best lineup:
Du Wilson / De Wilson
Mayo / JJJ
Jamil / Burton / Juan
McKay / Taylor
Davante / Otule
Realistic lineup:
Derrick Wilson / Du Wilson
Mayo / JJJ / Burton
Juan / Jamil / Burton - Jamil doesn't start to stay outta foul trouble
McKay / Taylor
Otule / Davante
Jamil starts. He's the alpha dog this year. Maybe at the #4 if Juan starts at the 'Lockett' #3, maybe at the #3 if McKay, Steve or DG start at the #4.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 23, 2013, 02:26:03 PM
Exactly--the second unit would be better than the first. I am not trying to dis , De. Wilson, Otule or Mayo, but they are limited. If Otule starts because of his "defense", then Gardner should start at PF because of his offense, hands, touch FT's etc. I do not see what warrants Anderson starting, or Mayo, both have been way too inconsistent. And De. Wilson brings nothing offensively. IMO, the best starting line up would be:
C Otule/McKay
PF Gardner
SF Ja. Wilson/Burton
2G Whoever emerges between JJJ and Burton
PG Du. Wilson
The other switchables can fill in the minutes as subs.
Have you seen JJJ or Burton play? How can you say that both are already better than Juan?
I think we (internet basketball nerds) fall in love with prospects too fast and then give up on them if they don't produce immediately. Remember when people were giving up on Vander? Some people said Mayo was already better. Wellll, that wasn't true. Now people are killing Mayo and Juan saying that the new guys will be better. Hmmmm.
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 24, 2013, 10:10:36 AM
By Big East Play these will be the players getting the most minutes and playing at crunch time:
Du Wilson
Mayo
Wilson
Taylor
Gardner/Otule (a lot of subbing for D and O)
No way that you can continue to sub Gardner and Otule at crunch time. You can try, but with TO's, etc. one ends up on the floor at the expense of the other. Who do you want on the FT line late in a close game: Otule or OX? If you believe you need the D, can't Wilson/McKay fill that on help? You have to have Ox in there at crunch time!
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 24, 2013, 11:34:15 AM
Have you seen JJJ or Burton play? How can you say that both are already better than Juan?
I think we (internet basketball nerds) fall in love with prospects too fast and then give up on them if they don't produce immediately. Remember when people were giving up on Vander? Some people said Mayo was already better. Wellll, that wasn't true. Now people are killing Mayo and Juan saying that the new guys will be better. Hmmmm.
No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.
1. Derrick Wilson
2. Mayo
3. Jamil
4. Ox
5. Otule
Risky, but Buzz can't not start Otule and Gardner has waited and earned every right to start.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 24, 2013, 11:43:44 AM
No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.
Time is running out? He's a junior who missed all of last summer and the first half of the season last year. No patience whatsoever.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 24, 2013, 11:41:47 AM
No way that you can continue to sub Gardner and Otule at crunch time. You can try, but with TO's, etc. one ends up on the floor at the expense of the other. Who do you want on the FT line late in a close game: Otule or OX? If you believe you need the D, can't Wilson/McKay fill that on help? You have to have Ox in there at crunch time!
Do you watch the games? That's what Buzz did with Ox and Davante.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 24, 2013, 11:43:44 AM
No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.
Didn't people say that about Vander?
Quote from: buzzchiapet on July 24, 2013, 11:45:00 AM
1. Derrick Wilson
2. Mayo
3. Jamil
4. Ox
5. Otule
Risky, but Buzz can't not start Otule and Gardner has waited and earned every right to start.
It's not a bad move, as the options for subs seem pretty good/flexible (juan, Taylor, McKay)... but Buzz would have to commit to zone defense to open a game. I don't know if he'll do that or not.
In theory though, if you started DG and Otule, you could sub in Juan for DG at the 4min. mark and move Otule back to center. Then you could bring back Ox after a short blow and keep him fresh. Rotate between him and Chris at Center for the remainder of the first half (about 12-14min), and then start over again in the second half.
You could probably squeeze our 6-8 min per game with them together, so that would mean about 24min. per guy playing time.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on July 24, 2013, 12:15:02 PM
Didn't people say that about Vander?
Don't know--are you comparing Mayo to Blue?
Quote from: willie warrior on July 24, 2013, 01:30:32 PM
Don't know--are you comparing Mayo to Blue?
I'm comparing the fact some people give up on a player before that player has fully developed.
Vander Blue is a good example. People were down on him before they had given him a chance to develop.
Juan and Todd could be future examples, which is why I'm not so quick to write them off.
Quote from: buzzchiapet on July 24, 2013, 11:45:00 AM
1. Derrick Wilson
2. Mayo
3. Jamil
4. Ox
5. Otule
Risky, but Buzz can't not start Otule and Gardner has waited and earned every right to start.
You are assuming that "starting" means a great deal to Gardner. He will likely not start but play more minutes anyway. I don't even know what "earned every right to start" even means.
Quote from: Aughnanure on July 24, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
Do you watch the games? That's what Buzz did with Ox and Davante.
yeah, I watch games and their were numerous instances when one of them sat for 30 plus seconds waiting to get in, because of transition etc. which is what I said. Do you watch them?
Quote from: willie warrior on July 24, 2013, 05:23:13 PM
yeah, I watch games and their were numerous instances when one of them sat for 30 plus seconds waiting to get in, because of transition etc. which is what I said. Do you watch them?
OK...did you also notice that Buzz had success with that strategy despite your objections?
They would be both get tired and in early foul trouble if both Davante and Chris started. :-*
Quote from: MarsupialMadness on July 24, 2013, 05:49:26 PM
They would be both get tired and in early foul trouble if both Davante and Chris started. :-*
They both would be expending energy at the same time, so I could buy the argument that both would get tired at the same time. However, I disagree with the foul scenario. Neither one commits a lot of fouls, so playing at the same time should not matter. I think, if starting is important to Gardner vs winning 6th man of the year Buzz will start him. I also believe Gardner wants to play some power forward. Starting Otule at center and Gardner at PF and letting them play 5 minutes together gives Gardner both a starting position and time at power forward, so I think that will happen. Also, if Buzz wants to put on a full court press it is probably more effective to leave both Otule and Gardner on the bench during that time. I do not know, but I could see Buzz opening with a zone with Gardner & Otule and then replacing them with McKay at center and going up temple on both offense and defense. At the same time Buzz would be replacing Derrick with Duane at point. You can argue the other two positions in this scenario.
Outside of the first game against Syracuse, which IMO is completely negated by the second game, can anyone point to a single time last season when playing Gardner and Otule at the same time actually worked?
I'm not sure they were on the court together prior to the first game against Syracuse. If they were it was for a very limited amount of time.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on July 24, 2013, 08:33:58 PM
I'm not sure they were on the court together prior to the first game against Syracuse. If they were it was for a very limited amount of time.
Oh they were. Davante stuggled guarding the 4...that is why you didn't see it often. And in fact against Syracuse they actually kept Gardner at the 4 but subbed Taylor in for Otule at one point to get better defensively.
Ok. I don't recall many instances with that lineup but i am sure there were some. Hopefully a reportedly slimmed down Davante will be better on the defensive end. Been saying that for a while now.
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 24, 2013, 04:49:03 PM
You are assuming that "starting" means a great deal to Gardner. He will likely not start but play more minutes anyway. I don't even know what "earned every right to start" even means.
Starting has to mean a lot to him. How many NBA draft picks don't start on their college team? Starting for Buzz means you have earned his complete trust and you are one of the five toughest players. Having three years under the belt playing for Buzz with success Gardner has earned the right to start.
Nm
Quote from: Terror Skink on July 24, 2013, 07:42:49 PM
Outside of the first game against Syracuse, which IMO is completely negated by the second game, can anyone point to a single time last season when playing Gardner and Otule at the same time actually worked?
Outside of that game, it seldomly worked. I agree with you here, do not see the reason to start both. Would have to open in a zone as well and I would much rather move to that later in a game to throw off the opposing offense.
Additionally, throwing in an Otule-Gardner lineup on the floor would be much more effective as a change of pace during a game, IMO.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 24, 2013, 11:43:44 AM
No, I have not seen either play--but I have seen two years of Juan. HMMMMM...and Mayo is way too inconsistent also. How many chances does he get? Time is running out.
How many people said the same about Vander Blue after two seasons?
EDIT: D'oh...teach me to read to the end of the thread before posting. That Guns is a smart guy ;)
If you started the game in a zone for 5 min (with otule and gardner), wouldn't the general concern be that you may allow the other team to have more open outside shots, get comfortable and get hot right off the bat?
Quote from: buzzchiapet on July 24, 2013, 09:11:09 PM
Starting has to mean a lot to him. How many NBA draft picks don't start on their college team? Starting for Buzz means you have earned his complete trust and you are one of the five toughest players. Having three years under the belt playing for Buzz with success Gardner has earned the right to start.
Marvin Williams and Dion Waiters were both top 3 picks after being the 6th man on their college teams. I'm sure they're plenty more as well
Quote from: LAMUfan on July 25, 2013, 08:07:09 AM
If you started the game in a zone for 5 min (with otule and gardner), wouldn't the general concern be that you may allow the other team to have more open outside shots, get comfortable and get hot right off the bat?
I think no matter what defense you start in the opposing team generally will get comfortable with it in a few minutes time. Over the years I have seen a lot of big leads established in the first few minutes disappear. To me whether you start in a zone or man does not matter. What matters is being able to drastically alter your style to keep the other team from getting comfortable. Open in one type of zone, hit them with one kind of press, go back to a different type of zone, come back with a different kind of press, etc.
Starting Lineup:
De Wilson
Anderson
J Wilson
McKay
Otule
Who will actually get the most minutes at each position:
Du Wilson
JJJ/Burton
J Wilson
McKay
Gardner
Buzz doesn't like starting freshmen, but I think both Duane and whoever emerges from JJJ/Burton will outcompete their competition for the minutes. Gardner is better than Otule, but we need Otule to take the tip, so Gardner will never start.
What about the extra scholarship for this year? Is Garrett Swanson still on the team?
Quote from: Blueprint on July 26, 2013, 02:07:18 PM
What about the extra scholarship for this year? Is Garrett Swanson still on the team?
No extra scholly. All used up.
Quote from: dsfgdvumo on July 26, 2013, 02:46:06 PM
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+1
Otule
Gardner
J. Wilson
Burton
Derrick Wilson
Full court press team
Mckay
Anderson
Mayo
Duanne Wilson
JJJ