Sometimes the truth hurts. Vander Blue messed up:
http://painttouches.com/2013/06/27/strotman-blues-own-mistakes-land-him-undrafted/
Vander was a victim of his own ego and from bad advice within his inner circle. Here's hoping he still gets what he wants out of life.
Not drafted? Gee, what a shock.
Quote from: Groin_pull on June 27, 2013, 11:42:05 PM
Not drafted? Gee, what a shock.
To many here, it
was a shock. More than a few thought he'd not only get drafted but would be a first-rounder. What they based that on is still a mystery to me, but whatever.
I hope this is a lesson to those who think Jamil Wilson is an NBA shoo-in. Or those who believe Davante Gardner is a strong possibility. Or, for cripe's sake, those who think Otule has a chance in hell of being an NBA player.
We love our guys, and that's cool. But sometimes we gotta take off those blue-and-gold glasses and look reality in the eye.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2013, 11:33:46 PM
Vander was a victim of his own ego and from bad advice within his inner circle. Here's hoping he still gets what he wants out of life.
Not really sure he would've gained all that much coming back to MU. He would've had an awesome experience going deep into the tourney, but the guy has done that 3x already. He might've got a communications degrees. A year of free food, rent and travel. Instead, he will be getting paid to travel Europe and if he wants a degree, he could always go back with said salary.
I personally wouldn't have made his choice, but fans need to stop being selfish and see both sides before hating on a player. I think best case scenario is that he goes like Siva and gets picked late next year with a small chance of making the team if he came back.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 28, 2013, 12:02:12 AM
Not really sure he would've gained all that much coming back to MU. He would've had an awesome experience going deep into the tourney, but the guy has done that 3x already. He might've got a communications degrees. A year of free food, rent and travel. Instead, he will be getting paid to travel Europe and if he wants a degree, he could always go back with said salary.
I personally wouldn't have made his choice, but fans need to stop being selfish and see both sides before hating on a player. I think best case scenario is that he goes like Siva and gets picked late next year with a small chance of making the team if he came back.
The way he developed this past year I'm not sure how you can say this.
Quote from: Groin_pull on June 27, 2013, 11:42:05 PM
Not drafted? Gee, what a shock.
Go back about 6 weeks ago, lots of folks here had him pegged 1st rounder. ::) I'll bet some are shocked. Sigh. Sad, hope it works out, but sad in many ways. Sometimes people can't get out of their own way.
Forgot to mention... excellent read, Strotty.
Quote from: wardle2wade on June 28, 2013, 12:06:05 AM
The way he developed this past year I'm not sure how you can say this.
Are you saying he would've been drafted next year or just that he would develop more as a player? I think he would've developed but he can develop anywhere, especially as a pro playing in the professional leagues in Europe.
Ah here it is.....I bet you couldn't wait to run in here and throw this thread together to rip Blue could you. Very spiteful. You don't have to jump on the kid....
An entire new thread does not have to be made for this. We know he was not drafted. So what. You were not either....He will be more then okay and has a bright future.
He has the ability to play professionally and will have to be humble and receptive enough to take some suggestions and advice FROM THE RIGHT PEOPLE...to perhaps reinvent his game of sorts to make himself signable.
And he will and he has. DWade and I am sure J.B and Jae and Wesley are their to reach out to him and Sanders on the Bucks. It will be interesting to see who gets a crack first Dwight Buycks, Korie Lucious, or Vander Blue...this summer?
I will be watching all three to see what goes down...I am proud and hopeful of them all as a fan and will always stay true to our local kids with hoops dreams from Wisconsin and Milwaukee especially.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 28, 2013, 12:26:17 AM
Are you saying he would've been drafted next year or just that he would develop more as a player? I think he would've developed but he can develop anywhere, especially as a pro playing in the professional leagues in Europe.
Yes if he had come back and had the year he had last year this year, he would have been drafted next year even if it was the second round. He left too early. But that was his decision and he has to live with it and I am sure has no regrets.
He was sick of the drama probably...and the expectations and pressure and perhaps some accountability and responsibility in leadership that only can be honed going through adversity. And I am certain that is what teams saw...
Listening to his interviews he gave no real reason why he came out except he felt that he was ready and did not specify how and in what way was he ready other then having a few good games and a few shots fall in the tourney?
There had to be a red flag that more then one team saw for him not to be drafted. It is pointless to really speculate now but he should stayed 4 years.
The only MU player who stay 3 was great enough to make the leap and is winning rings now and is a Hall of Fame Player. DWade is the exception to the rule.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
To many here, it was a shock. More than a few thought he'd not only get drafted but would be a first-rounder. What they based that on is still a mystery to me, but whatever.
I hope this is a lesson to those who think Jamil Wilson is an NBA shoo-in. Or those who believe Davante Gardner is a strong possibility. Or, for cripe's sake, those who think Otule has a chance in hell of being an NBA player.
We love our guys, and that's cool. But sometimes we gotta take off those blue-and-gold glasses and look reality in the eye.
What the hell are you talking about....this isn't a "lesson" to anyone! Each individual is different and each situation is different. This isn't "a lesson" to Vander or Devante or Jamil....what are you saying?
What "lesson" are you talking about? He just wasn't drafted. I am sure he hoped he would be and many said he was not good enough, but the point was he was ready to go. Let him go and wish him well.
There is no "lesson" to be learned chasing your dream....his dream continues but only the journey and time has change to when he reaches it.
I don't get this message at all...This does not have anything to do with Jamil or Devante at all. The two Wisconsin kids did not get drafted either.
Alot of teams took foreign players that cut down Vander's chances and teams drafted some guys to stock overseas for a few years. In some ways it might be best that he didn't get drafted. Second round picks are not guaranteed the money anyways.
It was no wrong for Vander to explore the NBA, I am going to say this and I will never comment on this Vander subject again because it is getting tiresome....his mistakes was signing with an agent when he did that prohibited him coming back when he saw he would not be a first round pick.
To me that was his mistake and it was a slight and slap at Buzz Williams that I do not think Vander realized or cared and he was just done. That to me was a bit tactless. The only player who did that here in the last 10 years was Wade. And Vander was the highest ranked recruit at MU.
He should have held out and worked out up until the very last second and then made a decision then but not sign with an agent IMMEDIATELY after the season ended. I have no idea who gave him that advice? But he struck when the iron was hot or seemed to be...
Which shows that maybe that this was planned all along which may have been seen as premature or immature to some. Heck even Juan Anderson and Jake Thomas came back....he didn't and did not even leave open that possibility either as a team leader.
And I am sure teams asked him about it and it turned them off because he has some ability. But that is just the way it looks on the outside. Okay, I'm done. I wish the young man well.
I didn't know Vanders mom read MUScoop...
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on June 28, 2013, 04:06:42 AM
What the hell are you talking about....this isn't a "lesson" to anyone! Each individual is different and each situation is different. This isn't "a lesson" to Vander or Devante or Jamil....what are you saying?
What "lesson" are you talking about? He just wasn't drafted. I am sure he hoped he would be and many said he was not good enough, but the point was he was ready to go. Let him go and wish him well.
There is no "lesson" to be learned chasing your dream....his dream continues but only the journey and time has change to when he reaches it.
I don't get this message at all...This does not have anything to do with Jamil or Devante at all. The two Wisconsin kids did not get drafted either.
Alot of teams took foreign players that cut down Vander's chances and teams drafted some guys to stock overseas for a few years. In some ways it might be best that he didn't get drafted. Second round picks are not guaranteed the money anyways.
It was no wrong for Vander to explore the NBA, I am going to say this and I will never comment on this Vander subject again because it is getting tiresome....his mistakes was signing with an agent when he did that prohibited him coming back when he saw he would not be a first round pick.
To me that was his mistake and it was a slight and slap at Buzz Williams that I do not think Vander realized or cared and he was just done. That to me was a bit tactless. The only player who did that here in the last 10 years was Wade. And Vander was the highest ranked recruit at MU.
He should have held out and worked out up until the very last second and then made a decision then but not sign with an agent IMMEDIATELY after the season ended. I have no idea who gave him that advice? But he struck when the iron was hot or seemed to be...
Which shows that maybe that this was planned all along which may have been seen as premature or immature to some. Heck even Juan Anderson and Jake Thomas came back....he didn't and did not even leave open that possibility either as a team leader.
And I am sure teams asked him about it and it turned them off because he has some ability. But that is just the way it looks on the outside. Okay, I'm done. I wish the young man well.
Next stop, D-League!
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 28, 2013, 12:26:17 AM
Are you saying he would've been drafted next year or just that he would develop more as a player? I think he would've developed but he can develop anywhere, especially as a pro playing in the professional leagues in Europe.
Yeah I think this is a good point. I doubt Vander gets drafted next year too.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on June 28, 2013, 03:59:17 AM
Yes if he had come back and had the year he had last year this year, he would have been drafted next year even if it was the second round. He left too early. But that was his decision and he has to live with it and I am sure has no regrets.
He was sick of the drama probably...and the expectations and pressure and perhaps some accountability and responsibility in leadership that only can be honed going through adversity. And I am certain that is what teams saw...
Listening to his interviews he gave no real reason why he came out except he felt that he was ready and did not specify how and in what way was he ready other then having a few good games and a few shots fall in the tourney?
There had to be a red flag that more then one team saw for him not to be drafted. It is pointless to really speculate now but he should stayed 4 years.
The only MU player who stay 3 was great enough to make the leap and is winning rings now and is a Hall of Fame Player. DWade is the exception to the rule.
The guy was the heart and soul of an Elite 8 team who hit some game winning shots. He pretty much left on top. I really don't know what adversity he had to go through besides learning how to be a PG. No NBA scout is sitting there thinking, "Wow! Vander is a NBA prospect if he just goes through more adversity or becomes a better leader."
Those red flags you are talking about? Limited PG, skills with horrible range and not enough height. Teams didn't see him as a pro prospect. That's the red flag. I think Blue personally should have came back for a great experience, but that's another year where he isn't getting paid and risking injury, all so he can be a 2nd half of 2nd round NBA draft pick. Vander wanted to get paid now and he will.
Strotty, can we read the piece you wrote if Vander would have been drafted?
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
To many here, it was a shock. More than a few thought he'd not only get drafted but would be a first-rounder. What they based that on is still a mystery to me, but whatever.
I hope this is a lesson to those who think Jamil Wilson is an NBA shoo-in. Or those who believe Davante Gardner is a strong possibility. Or, for cripe's sake, those who think Otule has a chance in hell of being an NBA player.
We love our guys, and that's cool. But sometimes we gotta take off those blue-and-gold glasses and look reality in the eye.
I didn't think Blue would get drafted. I do think Wilson will...and I don't wear Blue and gold glasses.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on June 28, 2013, 03:59:17 AM
The only MU player who stay 3 was great enough to make the leap and is winning rings now and is a Hall of Fame Player. DWade is the exception to the rule.
Uh...Jimmy Chones, Larry McNeill, Maurice Lucas, Doc Rivers....
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 28, 2013, 05:38:41 AM
Yeah I think this is a good point. I doubt Vander gets drafted next year too.
So if MU was top 15 all year and he averaged 17 you think he would not have gotten picked on second round?
Some players games don't project to the NBA as well. Scottie Reynolds anyone, was a first team all american and didn't get drafted. If he didn't project to pg then he's not much use to an NBA team as a shooting guard who can't shoot.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2013, 11:50:18 PM
To many here, it was a shock. More than a few thought he'd not only get drafted but would be a first-rounder. What they based that on is still a mystery to me, but whatever.
I hope this is a lesson to those who think Jamil Wilson is an NBA shoo-in. Or those who believe Davante Gardner is a strong possibility. Or, for cripe's sake, those who think Otule has a chance in hell of being an NBA player.
We love our guys, and that's cool. But sometimes we gotta take off those blue-and-gold glasses and look reality in the eye.
FWIW, I thought Vander was going to get picked at the tail end. It turned out that a lot more foreign players got drafted instead. Which makes sense in a weak draft... you stash the foreign players for a few years and hope they pan out rather than taking a bench filler.
Also, at this point in time, I don't see Jamil, Davante, or Otule getting drafted. Out of the three, Jamil has the best shot. The main problem with Jamil is that he has zero killer instinct. Too passive. Has all of the tools, but differs far too often. Hope that changes this year, and if it does he has a shot at the league.
Quote from: chren21 on June 28, 2013, 06:47:12 AM
So if MU was top 15 all year and he averaged 17 you think he would not have gotten picked on second round?
He averaged almost 15 on an Elite 8 team this year. And that isn't what scouts look at anyway. He wasn't drafted because he had fundamental flaws in his game. Unless his extra year at MU was going to fix those flaws, NBA scouts would judge him the same way.
Quote from: strotty on June 27, 2013, 11:23:43 PM
Sometimes the truth hurts. Vander Blue messed up:
http://painttouches.com/2013/06/27/strotman-blues-own-mistakes-land-him-undrafted/
Maybe Blue messed up. But how many of us would have left MU early if we had an opportunity to play professional basketball?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 28, 2013, 07:39:02 AM
Maybe Blue messed up. But how many of us would have left MU early if we had an opportunity to play professional basketball?
That's kind of a simplistic way of looking at it. If I felt that I could have waited one more year to make even more money playing in a better league, then I wouldn't have left.
That being said, he actually may have made a good decision. Only time will tell.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on June 28, 2013, 04:06:42 AM
.. his mistakes was signing with an agent when he did that prohibited him coming back when he saw he would not be a first round pick.
IIRC, Vander declared just a couple days prior to the "withdrawal" date. Roughly, It didn't matter that he hired an agent. The window was almost closed anyhow.
Going into the last pick, if you assume Bilas's 10 best remaining players was accurate (which Blue was not on), Blue was not even close to being drafted. I do think once you got to the last 5 picks he was better off not being drafted. He should look at Bucks or Boston as they seem to be teams that he might have a chance of making. I think Blue would have been better off returning to MU, but I have a feeling MU by March will be a better team without him. The 30 plus minutes he would of played will be valuable playing time for the new players.
After another year with MU, would Vander be in any better a position to be drafted? I've thought all along some of these kids don't want to go to school, they want to play. It might be wishful thinking to go to the League. But maybe he lands in Europe or Asia and never has to pick up another book before and after practice.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 28, 2013, 07:50:18 AM
IIRC, Vander declared just a couple days prior to the "withdrawal" date. Roughly, It didn't matter that he hired an agent. The window was almost closed anyhow.
Correct.
I can't believe all of the people on here saying that Blue made a bad decision. You don't know. You don't. There is just as good of a possibility that if Blue played at MU next year, and played well, that he does not get drafted. There are too many broad assumptions being made by a lot of people here. Next years draft class is absolutely stacked. If Blue (as some have said) was sick of school and had the chance to fulfill his dream of possibly getting drafted this year... then why not give it a shot? If things went badly (which they did) he still has a lot of options. Free agent market, NBADL, foreign leagues... All which pay him money. Money he will earn a year earlier than if he would have waited.
Sure Blue could have come back for his senior year, and he COULD have blown up and gotten drafted next year. But who is to say? Maybe instead he blows out his knee?
Personally, I don't hold any sort of grudge toward the guy, but a lot of people want to call him stupid or point fingers... but really, its total speculation.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 28, 2013, 08:18:33 AM
Correct.
I can't believe all of the people on here saying that Blue made a bad decision. You don't know. You don't. There is just as good of a possibility that if Blue played at MU next year, and played well, that he does not get drafted. There are too many broad assumptions being made by a lot of people here. Next years draft class is absolutely stacked. If Blue (as some have said) was sick of school and had the chance to fulfill his dream of possibly getting drafted this year... then why not give it a shot? If things went badly (which they did) he still has a lot of options. Free agent market, NBADL, foreign leagues... All which pay him money. Money he will earn a year earlier than if he would have waited.
Sure Blue could have come back for his senior year, and he COULD have blown up and gotten drafted next year. But who is to say? Maybe instead he blows out his knee?
Personally, I don't hold any sort of grudge toward the guy, but a lot of people want to call him stupid or point fingers... but really, its total speculation.
Not very person wants to go to college, he wants to play ball and not study, so he will get his chance one year earlier, so be it. Some college kids take a semester abroad there junior
year, so Vander now can to. The difference he will get paid and do what he loves to do, and does not have to go to class. It is not so bad. I would hope Vander realizes that he should
go back to school and graduate someday. Good luck for his drive to his goal, the NBA.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 28, 2013, 07:50:18 AM
IIRC, Vander declared just a couple days prior to the "withdrawal" date. Roughly, It didn't matter that he hired an agent. The window was almost closed anyhow.
The odd thing about how it works is that you had to pull your name out by April 16th, but you could put your name in up to April 30th. The only reason for Blue to put his name in before April 30th was that he wanted to go no matter what. My guess is that Blue would of declared even if we had lost to Davidson. Every year there are at least a dozen players who declare that have no chance of making it. They just want out of college for whatever reason.
Thank you for another outstanding in-depth article.
One edit: should be "brass tacks" not "tax"
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 28, 2013, 08:24:46 AM
Not very person wants to go to college, he wants to play ball and not study, so he will get his chance one year earlier, so be it. Some college kids take a semester abroad there junior
year, so Vander now can to. The difference he will get paid and do what he loves to do, and does not have to go to class. It is not so bad. I would hope Vander realizes that he should
go back to school and graduate someday. Good luck for his drive to his goal, the NBA.
Right on.
Quote from: BCHoopster on June 28, 2013, 08:24:46 AM
Not very person wants to go to college, he wants to play ball and not study, so he will get his chance one year earlier, so be it. Some college kids take a semester abroad there junior
year, so Vander now can to. The difference he will get paid and do what he loves to do, and does not have to go to class. It is not so bad. I would hope Vander realizes that he should
go back to school and graduate someday. Good luck for his drive to his goal, the NBA.
I would say not wanting to go to college is short sighted thinking, which is a bad decision in the long run. Basketball wise it probably does not matter for Blue, but he will be done playing in another 15 years or sooner if he gets injured.
Quote from: bilsu on June 28, 2013, 08:34:20 AM
I would say not wanting to go to college is short sighted thinking, which is a bad decision in the long run. Basketball wise it probably does not matter for Blue, but he will be done playing in another 15 years or sooner if he gets injured.
Do you think that Bennett, Noel, McLemore wanted to go to school, really, they were forced by ridiculous rules that they can not get a job out of high school in there field. Those kids are
going to make more money than most people even if they are only in the league a few years. Do you think DWAde is going to go back to school or Lebron James, Kobe??
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 28, 2013, 05:38:41 AM
Yeah I think this is a good point. I doubt Vander gets drafted next year too.
Why?
He made a huge jump this year. I would not expect as huge next year, but certainly continuing the arc of improvement. He could have honed his two weaknesses this year and put them on display....more consistent outside shooting and PG play. Remember that he was a young junior, another year of maturity and improvement would have positioned him well.
I think Draft Express had it right on him. Head scratcher for him to come out this year, likely late first rounder next year. Oh well.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2013, 08:45:19 AM
Why?
He made a huge jump this year. I would not expect as huge next year, but certainly continuing the arc of improvement. He could have honed his two weaknesses this year and put them on display....more consistent outside shooting and PG play. Remember that he was a young junior, another year of maturity and improvement would have positioned him well.
I think Draft Express had it right on him. Head scratcher for him to come out this year, likely late first rounder next year. Oh well.
Until you look at the quality of the talent that is coming out next year it looks like a head scratcher. Probably the best class since 2003.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on June 28, 2013, 07:39:02 AM
Maybe Blue messed up. But how many of us would have left MU early if we had an opportunity to play professional basketball?
That all depends. If the draft gurus say another year in school will give you an BETTER opportunity to play professional basketball, most of us would have stayed. His decision to leave shocked everyone, including his head coach. He had the information...as DraftExpress interview said, he was practically begging someone to say it's possible you will get drafted. Ask enough girls to dance eventually one is going to say maybe.
Quote from: reinko on June 28, 2013, 05:53:22 AM
Strotty, can we read the piece you wrote if Vander would have been drafted?
That piece would have been less about Vander and more about Buzz's Midas touch.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 28, 2013, 08:47:10 AM
Until you look at the quality of the talent that is coming out next year it looks like a head scratcher. Probably the best class since 2003.
The draft experts know that (strong class next year), and they said he would be drafted next year. Just as the draft experts knew this year it wasn't a strong draft, and they said he wouldn't be drafted. They were 1 for 1, and I'm going to wager a solid year next year likely they would be 2 for 2.
We will never know. Good luck to the kid. School doesn't seem to be his thing, which should surprise no one here going back to his high school days. Hopefully he can shine in the Summer League, work on his game and get picked up.
MU alums tend to highly value a few things in play here .. education and a degree, the MU experience of being in college (et cetera) .. and to an extent, loyalty.
While none of us "really know" what was in Vander's brain, he wanted out of the Marquette family, and it's obvious people are irked at what appears to be a disconnect of those values.
Vander isn't that much unlike any kid who drops out of college, finding a new path. Because one could feel like it's a disrespect of the above mentioned values, it's thought of as a "bad decision."
Blah, blah, blah, he'll see the world overseas, likely hopping around from team to team over the next 10 years and put food on his table one year earlier than he would have, had he stuck at MU and maybe brought us to the 3rd weekend in the dance.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2013, 08:51:47 AM
The draft experts know that (strong class next year), and they said he would be drafted next year. Just as the draft experts knew this year it wasn't a strong draft, and they said he wouldn't be drafted. They were 1 for 1, and I'm going to wager a solid year next year likely they would be 2 for 2.
We will never know. Good luck to the kid. School doesn't seem to be his thing, which should surprise no one here going back to his high school days. Hopefully he can shine in the Summer League, work on his game and get picked up.
I think the experts refer to the strength at the top of the draft. I don't know if the talent will be that much different in the late first round and second round.
I think Vander's decision was reasonable.
How many think his 2FG jump shooting would have been as accurate as a senior as it was as a junior?
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 28, 2013, 08:53:14 AM
MU alums tend to highly value a few things in play here .. education and a degree, the MU experience of being in college (et cetera) .. and to an extent, loyalty.
While none of us "really know" what was in Vander's brain, he wanted out of the Marquette family, and it's obvious people are irked at what appears to be a disconnect of those values.
Vander isn't that much unlike any kid who drops out of college, finding a new path. Because one could feel like it's a disrespect of the above mentioned values, it's thought of as a "bad decision."
Blah, blah, blah, he'll see the world overseas, likely hopping around from team to team over the next 10 years and put food on his table one year earlier than he would have, had he stuck at MU and maybe brought us to the 3rd weekend in the dance.
There are some people here that fit that description, no doubt. There are also some here that regardless of what it would do or not do for the team or the NCAAs (it's a crapshoot, no guarantee he stays they don't get knocked out in the first round) his dreams had a lot better shot if he stayed around. Purely basketball improvement perspective....that was consistently mentioned by GMs, writers (Parish, Goodman) and draft gurus. Take the team success out of it for a moment, and just focus on his ability to get to that dream, what was the best path?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2013, 08:51:47 AM
The draft experts know that (strong class next year), and they said he would be drafted next year. Just as the draft experts knew this year it wasn't a strong draft, and they said he wouldn't be drafted. They were 1 for 1, and I'm going to wager a solid year next year likely they would be 2 for 2.
We will never know. Good luck to the kid. School doesn't seem to be his thing, which should surprise no one here going back to his high school days. Hopefully he can shine in the Summer League, work on his game and get picked up.
You might be right. Then again, go and look at the mock draft from last July and compare it to the results from last night. You might find out that the experts are just guys who are wrong as often as they are right. Total crapshoot. Remember when Shabazz Muhammad was a can't miss player? He went 14th and was then traded... in a weak draft.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2013, 08:59:14 AM
Take the team success out of it for a moment, and just focus on his ability to get to that dream, what was the best path?
To use your phrase .. that was a crapshoot too. Maybe the 2014 draft was stacked, maybe he would have excelled next season at MU, maybe we would lose to 2014's version of Davidson. Maybe he would have tweaked his knee. Who knows. Maybe playing another year would have bumped his chances.
What we do know is .. that he'd be drafted this year was a minority opinion, and in the end, was proved wrong.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 28, 2013, 08:47:10 AM
Until you look at the quality of the talent that is coming out next year it looks like a head scratcher. Probably the best class since 2003.
Well, I think you just have to evaluate:
Could Vander improve his stock in his senior year of college enough to get drafted in a "deep draft"? vs leaving early in a weak draft.
I think he would have been better served to come back for his senior year, but that's easy for me to say.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 28, 2013, 08:59:11 AM
I think Vander's decision was reasonable.
How many think his 2FG jump shooting would have been as accurate as a senior as it was as a junior?
Maybe we think that, but I doubt Blue entered the draft thinking, "well this is as good as it's gonna get for me, I'm probably not gonna get any better, I better go now"
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 28, 2013, 09:08:12 AM
You might be right. Then again, go and look at the mock draft from last July and compare it to the results from last night. You might find out that the experts are just guys who are wrong as often as they are right. Total crapshoot. Remember when Shabazz Muhammad was a can't miss player? He went 14th and was then traded... in a weak draft.
Absolutely correct, it is a crapshoot, especially when people blow up, etc. Though Shabazz was still a lottery pick last night.
However, when on the cusp of the draft (only 60 days out, not 1 year out), the experts are all saying WTF (experts meaning GMs, draftniks, head coaches, college basketball writers), that carries more weight. IMO.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. My guess is that when he looks at his peers, by peers I mean the guys he played with on that USA team, he sees them doing well in the NBA so he compares himself to those players and thinks he belongs in the same league as them (litterally). Hell, the starting backcourt on that team was Vander, Kyrie Irving, and Austin Rivers who I know he keeps in touch with so he most likely wants to be on their level and feels he belongs there. Simple psych 101
I don't begrudge Vander or his decision. And I certainly wish him well. But. If his goal was to play in the NBA, not just professionally somewhere but the NBA, then his best opportunity would have been to return to MU. While he may develop elsewhere in Europe or the d-league, he will never be given the exposure he'd get as one of the best players in CBB. That's an opportunity he may or may not have taken advantage of to his benefit, we can't know (though I'd bet he'd shine and would have been drafted low 1st/high 2nd next year). But it's a unique opportunity nevertheless, and one that is no longer available to him.
Other factors are involved, I get that. But if looking at a scale, his highest probability to play in the NBA weighed fairly heavily in favor of staying. I'm not sure how one can conclude otherwise.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on June 28, 2013, 09:20:57 AM
I don't begrudge Vander or his decision. And I certainly wish him well. But. If his goal was to play in the NBA, not just professionally somewhere but the NBA, then his best opportunity would have been to return to MU. While he may develop elsewhere in Europe or the d-league, he will never be given the exposure he'd get as one of the best players in CBB. That's an opportunity he may or may not have taken advantage of to his benefit, we can't know (though I'd bet he'd shine and would have been drafted low 1st/high 2nd next year). But it's a unique opportunity nevertheless, and one that is no longer available to him.
Other factors are involved, I get that. But if looking at a scale, his highest probability to play in the NBA weighed fairly heavily in favor of staying. I'm not sure how one can conclude otherwise.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nbadraft/results/player/_/id/19947/glen-rice-jr
Drafted right out of the NBDL... So there are other routes.
I don't think exposure from college means much to NBA scouts. Just look at all the foregin players drafted. If you're good enough, they'll find you in college, the D-League, or Europe. Going to the D-League will give him more time to work on his game and play against better players than he would have in college, and also gives him a chance for a mid-season call-up or a 10-day contract. If he wanted to come back to college to enjoy the college experience for one more year and make a big run on a loaded team in March, then that's one thing. But I think he'll have a just as good, if not better, chance to improve his game and get exposure in Europe or the D-League.
Oddly enough, I think the biggest reason next years loaded draft could help him is that a lot of teams (like the Bucks and Celtics) look like they're tanking it next year in hopes getting a higher draft pick. That means they'll be looking for a lot of players to fill roster spots at the league minimum salary to save money, and VB might be able to sneak into one of those spots.
I was looking at previous MU alum Draft Combine results and I can't believe that Vander (4) did less Bench Presses than Steve Novak (5)!
That's not good!
I wonder if the Strength and Conditioning coaches weren't/aren't happy with him.
UPDATE: Diener had ONE bench press...and got drafted!
Off to the Grizz:
http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/nba/2209/vander-blue
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on June 28, 2013, 03:46:28 AM
Ah here it is.....I bet you couldn't wait to run in here and throw this thread together to rip Blue could you. Very spiteful. You don't have to jump on the kid....
An entire new thread does not have to be made for this. We know he was not drafted. So what. You were not either....He will be more then okay and has a bright future.
He has the ability to play professionally and will have to be humble and receptive enough to take some suggestions and advice FROM THE RIGHT PEOPLE...to perhaps reinvent his game of sorts to make himself signable.
And he will and he has. DWade and I am sure J.B and Jae and Wesley are their to reach out to him and Sanders on the Bucks. It will be interesting to see who gets a crack first Dwight Buycks, Korie Lucious, or Vander Blue...this summer?
I will be watching all three to see what goes down...I am proud and hopeful of them all as a fan and will always stay true to our local kids with hoops dreams from Wisconsin and Milwaukee especially.
This 1000+, couldn't have said it any better.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 28, 2013, 07:34:38 AM
He averaged almost 15 on an Elite 8 team this year. And that isn't what scouts look at anyway. He wasn't drafted because he had fundamental flaws in his game. Unless his extra year at MU was going to fix those flaws, NBA scouts would judge him the same way.
Exactly. The numbers that the average fan uses to judge a player mean very little to NBA scouts. They are in the business of "projecting" how a player fits at the next level.
This is a tough crowd to please. The big knock against the Three Amigos was that they never even got to the Sweet Sixteen, so people questioned whether they were winners.
Blue gets to three Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight and you just get the bad vibe around here.
I really think going to school just wasn't his thing. I really don't think another year would have moved him to a first round pick anyways. Especially the way people are talking about next year's draft class.
Now the man can focus on a basketball career. Will that include the NBA? Maybe not. But he can get another year's worth of earnings as a pro now.
Godspeed Vander.
We should all subscribe to the never judge another man until you've walked in his shoes philosophy..in this case and any case in life. Sometimes easier said than done. But, we should all support, and hope the best for Vander. He played hard during his time at MU, and was THE reason MU got to the Elite 8 this year. So, thank you Vander for your contributions to the MU program, and all the best in the future.
Quote from: Ners on June 28, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
We should all subscribe to the never judge another man until you've walked in his shoes philosophy..in this case and any case in life. Sometimes easier said than done. But, we should all support, and hope the best for Vander. He played hard during his time at MU, and was THE reason MU got to the Elite 8 this year. So, thank you Vander for your contributions to the MU program, and all the best in the future.
Have you walked in Larry Williams's shoes?
Ba-ZING!
Quote from: reinko on June 28, 2013, 11:15:34 AM
Have you walked in Larry Williams's shoes?
Ba-ZING!
LOL - Well played Reinko. But to answer your question - obviously not - but I did read his idiotic/negative comments to the Milwaukee Journal 90 days on the job regarding the biggest asset he has in his Athletic Department: Buzz Williams.
Thankfully, theres been a big shift in the tone of Larry's remarks regarding Buzz over the last 6-12 months...so, he's at least been man enough to realize the folly of his ways and correct them...and for that he deserves credit.
Quote from: Ners on June 28, 2013, 11:18:40 AM
LOL - Well played Reinko. But to answer your question - obviously not - but I did read his idiotic/negative comments to the Milwaukee Journal 90 days on the job regarding the biggest asset he has in his Athletic Department: Buzz Williams.
Thankfully, theres been a big shift in the tone of Larry's remarks regarding Buzz over the last 6-12 months...so, he's at least been man enough to realize the folly of his ways and correct them...and for that he deserves credit.
Agree on all fronts, glad you can have a sense a humor about it.
Legggooo MU!
Quote from: MarquetteDano on June 28, 2013, 10:05:07 AM
This is a tough crowd to please. The big knock against the Three Amigos was that they never even got to the Sweet Sixteen, so people questioned whether they were winners.
Blue gets to three Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight and you just get the bad vibe around here.
I really think going to school just wasn't his thing. I really don't think another year would have moved him to a first round pick anyways. Especially the way people are talking about next year's draft class.
Now the man can focus on a basketball career. Will that include the NBA? Maybe not. But he can get another year's worth of earnings as a pro now.
Godspeed Vander.
It's simple. Some guys you want to root for—and some you don't. Cheered hard for Wesley, Jimmy, and Jae to make it to the next level. Vander, not so much.
Quote from: Groin_pull on June 28, 2013, 12:08:05 PM
It's simple. Some guys you want to root for—and some you don't. Cheered hard for Wesley, Jimmy, and Jae to make it to the next level. Vander, not so much.
That's kind of sad.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 28, 2013, 12:15:59 PM
That's kind of sad.
So sorry. Didn't mean to bring a little honesty to this board.
Quote from: Groin_pull on June 28, 2013, 12:41:53 PM
So sorry. Didn't mean to bring a little honesty to this board.
Skink didn't impugn your honesty. Just said it's sad that you feel that way.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 28, 2013, 12:53:39 PM
Skink didn't impugn your honesty. Just said it's sad that you feel that way.
Why? I'm supposed to blindly cheer for all MU players? I don't—and neither do any of you.
I didn't say I wanted Vander to break a leg or end up homeless. I simply said I'm not rooting for him as much as other players from the recent past. Didn't realize that was such a crime.
Quote from: Groin_pull on June 28, 2013, 01:01:31 PM
Why? I'm supposed to blindly cheer for all MU players? I don't—and neither do any of you.
I didn't say I wanted Vander to break a leg or end up homeless. I simply said I'm not rooting for him as much as other players from the recent past. Didn't realize that was such a crime.
I don't know what is so different about Blue that makes people feel that way.
Scoop should have a side business, renting high horses.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 28, 2013, 01:18:16 PM
Scoop should have a side business, renting high horses.
LMAO QFT