MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: real chili 83 on June 27, 2013, 06:03:53 PM
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Will Buzz's reputation, or the success of Wes, Jae, JFB, Novak pay dividends for Blue tonight?
Show time.
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No.
It's draft a Euro and stash them away in the 2nd round.
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Buzz has also had a couple of flops: Hayward and DJO.
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Buzz has also had a couple of flops: Hayward and DJO.
Given where DJO was drafted, the fact that he didn't stick hardly makes him a "flop". Frankly, the same can be said of Hayward. History shows that the draft isn't a sure thing.
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This draft is officially off the reservation.
what the actual unnatural carnal knowledge.
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Anthony Bennet is a stud, great pick by Cleveland. They went for the talent and got it.
Noel falling like a brick. No one wants a 215 lb, no offense and bad knee. Wow.
Two Indiana players in Top 5.
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Two picks in the top 4, still can't get out of the sweet 16.
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Crean made it no farther than the sweet 16 with 2 of top 4 picks...
*Ducks*
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This is the worst draft I've ever seen.
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Two Indiana players taken in the top 4 - how far did they get in the NCAA's again? (And I'm not a Crean basher, just surprised they bowed out like they did against Syracuse)
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Who will pick Mbakwe?
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This is the worst draft I've ever seen.
PS Has any coach ever failed to reach an Elite 8 with 2 top 5 draft picks in 1 year before?
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Two Indiana players taken in the top 4 - how far did they get in the NCAA's again? (And I'm not a Crean basher, just surprised they bowed out like they did against Syracuse)
Surprised? Superior talent combined with mediocre coaching achieves stunningly disappointing results. No surprise there.
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Brew,
What's your prediction for VB tonight?
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Noel and Anthony Davis together for New Orleans. Nice frontline duo for them.
I believe Sacramento now takes McLemore and then its a crapshoot for remainder of draft.
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Noel and Anthony Davis together for New Orleans. Nice frontline duo for them.
I believe Sacramento now takes McLemore and then its a crapshoot for remainder of draft.
No one will be able to get a shot off against NO in a few years.
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Ben McLemore=very tall Louis Farrakhan
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RIP, New Orleans Block Party (7:13 p.m.- 7:22 p.m.)
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Ben does seem like a bigoted prick.
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This is definitely a poor draft. If Bennet can go number 1, Blue can get picked.
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Ben McLemore=very tall Louis Farrakhan
Sacramento has WAY too much crazy on that team. I can't wait.
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RIP, New Orleans Block Party (7:13 p.m.- 7:22 p.m.)
*Ahem*
RT @realrobertmays: RIP, New Orleans Block Party (5:13 p.m.- 5:22 p.m.)
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No one will be able to get a shot off against NO in a few years.
See: Houston's Twin Towers (Akeem and Joe Barry)
Tell me how that worked out.
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Minnesota takes an undersized point guard to play alongside the under sized point guard they already have?
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See: Houston's Twin Towers (Akeem and Joe Barry)
Tell me how that worked out.
Wait. Wasn't that Akeem and Ralph Sampson?
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Wait. Wasn't that Akeem and Ralph Sampson?
Correct
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Minnesota takes an undersized point guard to play alongside the under sized point guard they already have?
LMAO nothing from them should surprise you.
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Bucks shoulda traded up for McCollum.
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Two picks in the top 4, still can't get out of the sweet 16.
LOL.
I'm sure that will kill his program. This from the same crew that kept saying how awful this draft is the last 6 months now wants to say how poor the team is because their players were drafted high (in what they labeled as an awful draft. LOL. ::) )
Let's see, takes an unwanted kid back in 2001 and he ends up going #5 in the draft a few years later. Takes a 3 star guard in Oladipo and three years later he's the #2 NBA pick in the land. As Oladipo said, "I wouldn't be here without Coach Crean"....remarkably similar to what Wade said just 12 months ago.
Hate all you want...he'll be able to go to recruits and leverage this to the hilt.
As for Cody at #4....well let's just see who drafted him....oh, that's right, the most inept, incompetent basketball mind in the NBA. Michael Jordan.
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That Noel trade was genius by NO
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LOL.
I'm sure that will kill his program. This from the same crew that kept saying how awful this draft is the last 6 months now wants to say how poor the team is because their players were drafted high (in what they labeled as an awful draft. LOL. ::) )
Let's see, takes an unwanted kid back in 2001 and he ends up going #5 in the draft a few years later. Takes a 3 star guard in Oladipo and three years later he's the #2 NBA pick in the land. As Oladipo said, "I wouldn't be here without Coach Crean"....remarkably similar to what Wade said just 12 months ago.
Hate all you want...he'll be able to go to recruits and leverage this to the hilt.
As for Cody at #4....well let's just see who drafted him....oh, that's right, the most inept, incompetent basketball mind in the NBA. Michael Jordan.
Maybe we are finally seeing Crean's 2003 "bounce."
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That Noel trade was genius by NO
LOL Nerlins plays for Nawlins.
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LOL.
I'm sure that will kill his program. This from the same crew that kept saying how awful this draft is the last 6 months now wants to say how poor the team is because their players were drafted high (in what they labeled as an awful draft. LOL. ::) )
Let's see, takes an unwanted kid back in 2001 and he ends up going #5 in the draft a few years later. Takes a 3 star guard in Oladipo and three years later he's the #2 NBA pick in the land. As Oladipo said, "I wouldn't be here without Coach Crean"....remarkably similar to what Wade said just 12 months ago.
Hate all you want...he'll be able to go to recruits and leverage this to the hilt.
As for Cody at #4....well let's just see who drafted him....oh, that's right, the most inept, incompetent basketball mind in the NBA. Michael Jordan.
Recruiting has never been Crean's problem (except bigs during his last 5 years at MU), particularly at IU. Getting his teams to work hard has never been a problem for Crean. Game prep has not been Crean's problem.
Theoretically, he will now be able to do better leveraging this disappointing tourney run, salved by two picks in the top 4, better than he did while at MU following the final 4 run. Matthews, Christian, Bell, Mason. He should do better now.
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So, you're sayin' Crean isn't as smart as he thinks he is, hey?
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LMAO nothing from them should surprise you.
Traded to Utah for 2 picks. Flip is not stupid like the previous GM.
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Maybe we are finally seeing Crean's 2003 "bounce."
(http://thirtyhertzrumble.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/070626Cartoon.gif)
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[As for Cody at #4....well let's just see who drafted him....oh, that's right, the most inept, incompetent basketball mind in the NBA. Michael Jordan.
[/quote]
You do realize that the Bobcats draft history over the past 7-8 years has been terrible. Dating back to 2006, when Michael Jordan became a minority owner, their history of first round picks include Adam Morrison, Jared Dudly, Brandon Wright, D.J. Augustin, Alexis Ajencia, and Gerrald Henderson. One of their better first round picks (Tobias Harris) was traded away. Last season he blew up in Orlando. The Bobcats also drafted Kemba walker and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. The jury is still out on these picks, however, they look pretty good for now.
However, to imply that Mikey J. has the ability to evaluate talent just because he was the best player to ever play the game is not accurate at this time judging by the picks that he has been a part of over the last 7-8 years. Even ESPN was ripping on him today during the 6 PM sporscenter, asking when he would finally strike gold in the first round.
As always, time will tell. I personally feel Cody is too soft to play in the NBA. We will see.
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Couple observations...
Jeff Goodman finally gives ESPN an insider who knows what is going on. He is going head to head with Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter. Broussard is a joke.
Bill Simmons, when he stops talking about other crap, is actually very enjoyable. He does know his NBA stuff.
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I bet Silent Bob Is ecstatic that Jay got drafted.
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LOL.
I'm sure that will kill his program. This from the same crew that kept saying how awful this draft is the last 6 months now wants to say how poor the team is because their players were drafted high (in what they labeled as an awful draft. LOL. ::) )
Let's see, takes an unwanted kid back in 2001 and he ends up going #5 in the draft a few years later. Takes a 3 star guard in Oladipo and three years later he's the #2 NBA pick in the land. As Oladipo said, "I wouldn't be here without Coach Crean"....remarkably similar to what Wade said just 12 months ago.
Hate all you want...he'll be able to go to recruits and leverage this to the hilt.
As for Cody at #4....well let's just see who drafted him....oh, that's right, the most inept, incompetent basketball mind in the NBA. Michael Jordan.
Wade was a partial qualifier, not unwanted. You're being a tad disingenuous.
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Couple observations...
Jeff Goodman finally gives ESPN an insider who knows what is going on. He is going head to head with Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter. Broussard is a joke.
Bill Simmons, when he stops talking about other crap, is actually very enjoyable. He does know his NBA stuff.
Simmons is a great writer. He's absolutely awful on TV. A tick better than Rick Reilly, though.
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My goodness, this is a weak draft. Blue's decision makes more sense by the minute.
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As for Cody at #4....well let's just see who drafted him....oh, that's right, the most inept, incompetent basketball mind in the NBA. Michael Jordan.
So that means Cody should have gone nowhere near that high, right? That's precisely what you're implying anyway
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So that means Cody should have gone nowhere near that high, right? That's precisely what you're implying anyway
Jordan's picks have been miserable. Cody Zeller is nowhere equal to #4.
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A non traditional German?
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Couple observations...
Jeff Goodman finally gives ESPN an insider who knows what is going on. He is going head to head with Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter. Broussard is a joke.
Bill Simmons, when he stops talking about other crap, is actually very enjoyable. He does know his NBA stuff.
The Draft suits his talents far better than the pre-game/halftime role, which was painful to watch.
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Shane Larkin? Didn't Blue own him in the s16?
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The Draft suits his talents far better than the pre-game/halftime role, which was painful to watch.
I agree with this. He cannot help but come across as the 98 pound weakling. Jay Bilas is plenty funny, though. So is Rose. They don't need Simmons in this venue. He just told Bilas to "stay in his lane," which was somewhat amusing. He should take his own advice.
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That excuse by Chicos wasn't incredibly predictable. This absolutely is an incredibly weak draft. Which means ALL of college basketball was weak. If you have 2 of the top 4 picks in the NBA Draft, that means you have (at least) 2 of the 4 best players in college basketball. It doesn't matter how bad the draft is, you have 2 of the 4 best player in college basketball. Period. And you get bounced in the Sweet 16? That's embarrassing.
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That's embarrassing.
I disagree. It is shameful. Really.
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/61/6149/9BCG100Z/posters/dana-fradon-have-they-no-shame-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
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This is the worst draft I've ever seen.
PS Has any coach ever failed to reach an Elite 8 with 2 top 5 draft picks in 1 year before?
I found this an interesting question so went back through the last 20 years (don't have the time to go back farther) and the answer over that time is "no". Two players from the same college team have gone Top 5 in NBA Draft 9 times since 1993:
2012 Kentucky 1st & 2nd picks NTL Champ.
2010 Kentucky 1st & 5th picks Elite 8
2008 UCLA 4th & 5th picks Final 4
2007 OSU 1st & 4th picks NTL Runner Up
2005 UNC 2nd & 5th picks NTL Champ.
2004 UCONN 2nd & 3rd picks NTL Champ.
2002 Duke 2nd & 3rd picks Elite 8
1998 UNC 4th & 5th picks Final 4
1995 UNC 3rd & 4th picks Final 4
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I found this an interesting question so went back through the last 20 years (don't have the time to go back farther) and the answer over that time is "no". Two players from the same college team have gone Top 5 in NBA Draft 9 times since 1993:
2012 Kentucky 1st & 2nd picks NTL Champ.
2010 Kentucky 1st & 5th picks Elite 8
2008 UCLA 4th & 5th picks Final 4
2007 OSU 1st & 4th picks NTL Runner Up
2005 UNC 2nd & 5th picks NTL Champ.
2004 UCONN 2nd & 3rd picks NTL Champ.
2002 Duke 2nd & 3rd picks Elite 8
1998 UNC 4th & 5th picks Final 4
1995 UNC 3rd & 4th picks Final 4
Sounds like prime Banner Fodder to me
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Sounds like prime Banner Fodder to me
2013 IIII 2nd & 4th picks +COACH CREAN Sweet 16
2012 Kentucky 1st & 2nd picks NTL Champ.
2010 Kentucky 1st & 5th picks Elite 8
2008 UCLA 4th & 5th picks Final 4
2007 OSU 1st & 4th picks NTL Runner Up
2005 UNC 2nd & 5th picks NTL Champ.
2004 UCONN 2nd & 3rd picks NTL Champ.
2002 Duke 2nd & 3rd picks Elite 8
1998 UNC 4th & 5th picks Final 4
1995 UNC 3rd & 4th picks Final 4
Fixed it.
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Two picks in the top 4, still can't get out of the sweet 16.
#2 pick in the NBA draft + #4 pick in the NBA draft + McDonald's AA point guard + two 4 star four year starters + the 6th man of the year in the Big 10 minus Coach Tom Crean = Sweet 16. LOL.
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Is Spike Lee looking more and more like Freeway?
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I found this an interesting question so went back through the last 20 years (don't have the time to go back farther) and the answer over that time is "no". Two players from the same college team have gone Top 5 in NBA Draft 9 times since 1993:
2012 Kentucky 1st & 2nd picks NTL Champ.
2010 Kentucky 1st & 5th picks Elite 8
2008 UCLA 4th & 5th picks Final 4
2007 OSU 1st & 4th picks NTL Runner Up
2005 UNC 2nd & 5th picks NTL Champ.
2004 UCONN 2nd & 3rd picks NTL Champ.
2002 Duke 2nd & 3rd picks Elite 8
1998 UNC 4th & 5th picks Final 4
1995 UNC 3rd & 4th picks Final 4
And if Temple can shoot it at all the Hoosiers go down in the round of 32. Unbelievable.
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I did not agree with Vander's decision to go pro, but this draft is so God-awful and his stock was as high as its likely to ever be. I now think it was the right move. Hope somebody takes a flier on him in round two.
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How about 2 first round picks and not even making the NCAA tourney?
Not fair to Noel but I just like an opportunity to dig Kentucky.
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I did not agree with Vander's decision to go pro, but this draft is so God-awful and his stock was as high as its likely to ever be. I now think it was the right move. Hope somebody takes a flier on him in round two.
Amen. This thing is just chock-full-o-crap.
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I did not agree with Vander's decision to go pro, but this draft is so God-awful and his stock was as high as its likely to ever be. I now think it was the right move. Hope somebody takes a flier on him in round two.
Problem is, this draft is weak at the top, but has the same talent as always in the middle. He is in the middle to bottom this year. If he fixed his shot and got his ball-handling tightened up a bit more, even in a strong draft next year he would work his way towards the top and at least guarantee being drafted.
I don't know his situation as far as family and other aspects, but basketball wise he would have been better off with another year, there is no doubt about that.
Right now he is praying on Buzz/Matthews/Butler/Crowder legacies to gift him a door into the NBA.
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Amen. This thing is just chock-full-o-crap.
He'll be drafted.
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Couple observations...
Jeff Goodman finally gives ESPN an insider who knows what is going on. He is going head to head with Adrian Wojnarowski on Twitter. Broussard is a joke.
Bill Simmons, when he stops talking about other crap, is actually very enjoyable. He does know his NBA stuff.
I love Simmons- and tonight demonstrates why- he has a take, but it isn't just to be an asshat- he is giving genuine reactions and praising some picks and expressing shock at others, and he's a huge fan (which also is where he can be hard to listen to, since he is so coastal in his areas of interest).
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He'll be drafted.
At this point, it would prob be better if he didnt get drafted.
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nine picks left ... Vander Time????
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Problem is, this draft is weak at the top, but has the same talent as always in the middle. He is in the middle to bottom this year. If he fixed his shot and got his ball-handling tightened up a bit more, even in a strong draft next year he would work his way towards the top and at least guarantee being drafted.
I don't know his situation as far as family and other aspects, but basketball wise he would have been better off with another year, there is no doubt about that.
Right now he is praying on Buzz/Matthews/Butler/Crowder legacies to gift him a door into the NBA.
Yeah, tons of talent in the second with Franklin, Wolters, Ledo, among others.
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Suns at 57 might be his best shot.
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Blue goes undrafted, final picks are "in".
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Vander made a mistake. next year was his year. wish him well in Europe orAsia
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Undrafted free agent signed by a team? Maybe. If I were a betting man, I'd say Europe at this point.
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I think tgat will shut the door
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Poor guy got some bad advice, this could have been his year. I wish him well in Europe.
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God, they said THE Ohio State when they announced Deshaun Thomas to the Suns
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Blue was not even close to getting drafted. Would be a stretch even if the draft was 75 picks. A lot more international players selected than I anticipated.
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Blue was not even close to getting drafted. Would be a stretch even if the draft was 75 picks. A lot more international players selected than I anticipated.
+1
I was thinking the same thing ... would he get picked if their was a third round?
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Is anybody honestly surprised he went undrafted? Does not surprise me in the slightest.
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Is anybody honestly surprised he went undrafted? Does not surprise me in the slightest.
I know of one person ... Vander Blue
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Poor guy got some bad advice, this could have been his year. I wish him well in Europe.
Yeah, he needs to stop listening to that Vander guy.
I actually don't blame him. He probably would have ended up in Europe either way but kind of disappointed he valued getting paid overseas compared to being part of a special MU, graduating and getting some fall back plans for post-career. It's his choice, but I am a selfish fan and hoped he would've came back instead.
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I was a part of the optimistic "Blue will get drafted" group. I was wrong, and now it looks like a European career is the most likely path for him at this point. It's sad to see him not get picked, but he still has a small shot if he turns some heads for a summer league team.
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Oladipo's gonna be the flop of the draft.
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Been saying this for a while now...in a league where 7 foot centers routinely knock down jumpers from outside of the college 3 point range, there is no room for a shooting guard that can't shoot.
Selfishly wanted him back but spending 4 years in college was never in his plans since entering high school. His choice, he has to live with it. I hope it works out for the best for him.
We won't be better without him next year, but at least our shooting guard will be able to stretch the defense and open up the lane a bit by being able to at least be a SMALL threat from beyond the arc.
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Blue was not even close to getting drafted. Would be a stretch even if the draft was 75 picks. A lot more international players selected than I anticipated.
Geez, but didn't an NBA source say that the Lakers would take Vander if he was still available at #48?
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Yeah, he needs to stop listening to that Vander guy.
I actually don't blame him. He probably would have ended up in Europe either way but kind of disappointed he valued getting paid overseas compared to being part of a special MU, graduating and getting some fall back plans for post-career. It's his choice, but I am a selfish fan and hoped he would've came back instead.
If he was going to end up in EU anyway, why not come back for one more year and hope to catch lightning in a bottle?
I hope this would serve as a lesson to kids who listen only to what they want to hear, but it won't.
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I was upset to see him declare out of selfish reasons, but to see him go undrafted is a real dissapointment. I thought he gave himself a shot w a great showing in the combine... I wonder how his shot looked in individual workouts? I hope he finds a home through great summer league play.
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I was upset to see him declare out of selfish reasons, but to see him go undrafted is a real dissapointment. I thought he gave himself a shot w a great showing in the combine... I wonder how his shot looked in individual workouts? I hope he finds a home through great we league play.
I thought the general consensus was that Blue did nothing to dispel rumors he can't shoot.
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I thought the general consensus was that Blue did nothing to dispel rumors he can't shoot.
Exactly. The only people who thought Vander had a great combine performance were those in Vander's camp.
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I honestly don't think Blue is surprised. The theme I got from his interviews was "I am sick of school and want to start making money." If you don't want to go to school anymore might as well take your chances in the draft. I fully expect him to tryout for teams and make the D-League. I don't know if he can pull a Wesely Matthews, but I see him having a career similar to Jerel McNeal
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Since Mbakwe wasn't drafted, will he petition for an 8th year of eligibility?
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The Bucks are irritating.
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Blue was not even close to getting drafted. Would be a stretch even if the draft was 75 picks. A lot more international players selected than I anticipated.
At the end of ESPN's draft-a-thon, Bilas' top 10 undrafted players were listed. Vander's name wasn't there. He might not have been drafted even if there had been a third round. Draft Express said he wasn't even a top-100 player.
It's fun to rally behind "our" kids, but most of us -- present company included -- are not knowledgeable enough to actually make a prediction about second-round draft picks. Few if any of us have seen any of the scads of international players who get drafted every year.
So then it comes down to, "Vander will get drafted. I just have a feeling." Or "The NBA likes Marquette guys, so Vander will get drafted."
Vander Blue was a nice college player for one of his three seasons but he has not demonstrated a single signature skill that can translate to the NBA game. Not one. And don't say, "He's a great athlete." Almost all of them are great athletes. There are 6-11 guys in the NBA who are just as quick as Vander, some who have every bit as good a handle and dozens who can shoot better.
It's fine to hope he still can make it as Wes did, but that's a long, long, long shot -- and we all know that, unlike Wes, Vander can't hit long shots.
Vander still can have a lengthy pro basketball career. It simply will not be in the NBA unless he makes MAJOR improvements. I wish him the best of luck and thank him for all the great plays he made this past season.
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The Bucks are irritating.
What would you have like them to do? I really like picking the Greece kid. Would've preferred keeping Ledo, though. (That may have been prearranged, so he may have been Was's pick earlier)
The Bucks 3-5 position of the future now has wings spans of 7'3, 7'5, and 7'6. I disagree with 90% of their moves but a high-risk/high-reward with a tanking slant was a great pick for them.
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The Bucks are irritating.
Tell me about it. Two unproven commodities seems about par for the course with them.
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The Bucks are irritating.
This first round pick is the one I have agreed with most in a LONG time by the Bucks. They are FINALLY, it seems, willing to tank for a year or two to get some true NBA talent on the roster. This kid won't make a difference in the next 2 years. The backcourt will be awful. So we'll get a top 5 pick in a great draft class next year and watch this guy and whoever we get develop for a couple years before hopefully competing. You can't keep hovering right on the bubble of being swept in the first round and being the best team not to make the Playoffs.
Also, this draft was awful. Very, very few players are going to have big impact careers, especially guys who went mid first round and down. I'd rather take my chances with a foreign 18 year old that has huge potential than someone who I know will be a role player throughout his career.
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Tell me about it. Two unproven commodities seems about par for the course with them.
Ummmmmmmmmm..... Do you consider Wolters unproven? Was the only guy with 20/5/5 the last 2 years.
ETA: And if you were talking about Ledo, he would've been a really solid pick that late. The guy was a top 20 recruit with NBA measurables. I take that over a Ryan Kelly 7 out of 7 times.
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I'm with Marty on this. Love the swing-for-the-fences pick. Now, if they can resist blowing their cap room on free agents (I can dream), tank this upcoming season, get a high pick in next year's loaded draft and then fill in the pieces in free agency. Unfortunately, herb will want to be the 8 seed and they'll go all in for josh smith, jr smith, etc, be a 7/8 seed, pick in the middle of the first round and be stuck with no cap flexibility.
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Our first round pick has the highest ceiling but also the lowest bottom. Big time hit or major miss. I would have preferred a pg (had a man crush on Dennis Schroeder) but I see what you guys are saying. Hopefully we actually do tank so we can get a top 10, hopefully top 5 pick next year. And yes I really wanted Ledo... bad. A steal for our 2nd round pick, but hopefully Wolters game will translate into the NBA.
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This first round pick is the one I have agreed with most in a LONG time by the Bucks. They are FINALLY, it seems, willing to tank for a year or two to get some true NBA talent on the roster. This kid won't make a difference in the next 2 years. The backcourt will be awful. So we'll get a top 5 pick in a great draft class next year and watch this guy and whoever we get develop for a couple years before hopefully competing. You can't keep hovering right on the bubble of being swept in the first round and being the best team not to make the Playoffs.
Also, this draft was awful. Very, very few players are going to have big impact careers, especially guys who went mid first round and down. I'd rather take my chances with a foreign 18 year old that has huge potential than someone who I know will be a role player throughout his career.
There isdifference between NBA talent and skill...Oladipo's gonna be the flop of the draft.
I disagree he will be the one signature player of the draft for his team. His team will have his personality to it....and toughness. I think he is a game-changer and a culture changer with the way he competes.
Tom Crean taught he well just like he built a foundation here and Victor will take that with him to Orlando.
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Our first round pick has the highest ceiling but also the lowest bottom. Big time hit or major miss. I would have preferred a pg (had a man crush on Dennis Schroeder) but I see what you guys are saying. Hopefully we actually do tank so we can get a top 10, hopefully top 5 pick next year. And yes I really wanted Ledo... bad. A steal for our 2nd round pick, but hopefully Wolters game will translate into the NBA.
It was a horrible ill timed pick. This was not the time nor the draft to take who the Bucks did with the free agfency situation they are in. The needed a safe sure pick for need, not a project in a weak draft year.
The draft to take a hit and miss would be next years draft not a weak draft if you want to build a good team and keep your job and credibility. I gave the Bucks and F grade.
And to get both Ricky Ledo and have Deshaun Thomas left to take and then trade them to get Wolthers who you could get anywhere was another horrendous move. But it explains why they Bucks are who they are and are the worse run franchise in the NBA.
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It was a horrible ill timed pick. This was not the time nor the draft to take who the Bucks did with the free agfency situation they are in. The needed a safe sure pick for need, not a project in a weak draft year.
The draft to take a hit and miss would be next years draft not a weak draft if you want to build a good team and keep your job and credibility. I gave the Bucks and F grade.
And to get both Ricky Ledo and have Deshaun Thomas left to take and then trade them to get Wolthers who you could get anywhere was another horrendous move. But it explains why they Bucks are who they are and are the worse run franchise in the NBA.
No one else took the gambles the Bucks did. They wasted that pick and could have had Dallas' and the Thunder's pick who were trying to give theirs away and got both guys if they wanted.
Fans who like this pick do not know what they are talking about but most of them like the pick because they want to tank anyways and dont care if it was a good pick or not. They want to lose so we get a lottry pick next year.
This generation of NBA lottery driven ESPN AAU hyped McDonald's fan is a trip. The lost art of building a title time wherever you are is lost on them and I have a tough time explaining it and putting up with it as a Bucks fan.
The Bucks did the worse of any team in the situation they are in...of all the teams in the NBA tonight imo.
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It was a horrible ill timed pick. This was not the time nor the draft to take who the Bucks did with the free agfency situation they are in. The needed a safe sure pick for need, not a project in a weak draft year.
The draft to take a hit and miss would be next years draft not a weak draft if you want to build a good team and keep your job and credibility. I gave the Bucks and F grade.
And to get both Ricky Ledo and have Deshaun Thomas left to take and then trade them to get Wolthers who you could get anywhere was another horrendous move. But it explains why they Bucks are who they are and are the worse run franchise in the NBA.
There was a sure pick at 15? What are suggesting a guy like Larkin? You would think you would want to go high-risk in a weak draft, tank and get a great pick in the following year's draft.
Miami, Chicago, NJ, and Ind have the Top 4 locked up in the East. We need to tank this year and not get swept in the opening round.
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Foreign draft picks is so aggravating because you never really know their skill level til the season, and it leaves you wonder if it was a wasted pick.
Blue's situation is a damn shame!
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Oladipo's gonna be the flop of the draft.
Or Zeller, or Bennet, or (insert name)
Man, what a crap pile. I do not follow drafts that closely, but this one was miserable. Blue better have DJO's phone number.
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Just curious...does anyone know how many players who declared early went undrafted?
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Just curious...does anyone know how many players who declared early went undrafted?
48 US college players entered the draft early. 28 were drafted. 20 were undrafted.
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The Bucks are irritating.
From a PR standpoint, don't you think it would have been interesting to see the Bucks draft Vander Blue with their 2nd round pick? I get that they're trying to "win", but who knows, maybe you get more people in the seats by putting a MU guy on the court?
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He can play on your summer league time next month if they want him, I am sure he will get some opportunities from some team out there. I would hope it is the Bucks, but is it a
PR nightmare if he gets cut? Berggeron for the Badgers as well.
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From a PR standpoint, don't you think it would have been interesting to see the Bucks draft Vander Blue with their 2nd round pick? I get that they're trying to "win", but who knows, maybe you get more people in the seats by putting a MU guy on the court?
That's the kind of crap losing teams do. Which is exactly why the Bucks should have done it.
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From a PR standpoint, don't you think it would have been interesting to see the Bucks draft Vander Blue with their 2nd round pick? I get that they're trying to "win", but who knows, maybe you get more people in the seats by putting a MU guy on the court?
I'm not sure they are trying to 'win' anymore. IMO, they should be tanking hard this year. Though it might be hard to out-tank some other teams.
Blue on the court in Milwaukee might add five more sold seats per game... and that is probably an overstatement.
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I'm not sure they are trying to 'win' anymore. IMO, they should be tanking hard this year. Though it might be hard to out-tank some other teams.
Blue on the court in Milwaukee might add five more sold seats per game... and that is probably an overstatement.
You are correct on both counts, but the senator would rather do just enough to get them in the playoffs so he can sell tickets. That's why they are in NBA purgatory. They have no plan that I can see other than plugging in pieces to get them to the 8 seed. They need at least one tank season or two to get them back to having a chance.
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You are correct on both counts, but the senator would rather do just enough to get them in the playoffs so he can sell tickets. That's why they are in NBA purgatory. They have no plan that I can see other than plugging in pieces to get them to the 8 seed. They need at least one tank season or two to get them back to having a chance.
I agree, and I get not tanking this last year. The draft was weak, and they may as well take the money they made in the playoffs. Next year, I hope they see what is coming down the pipeline. Also, I hope they don't sign any of the free agents available. I could stomach resigning Jennings if the money was right.
The Bucks need to build around Larry Sanders, John Henson, and no one else... Everyone else is totally expendable. I'd keep the new kid from Greece, but he is still a somewhat unknown commodity. I would be so excited as a Bucks fan if they could manage to get Wiggins next year... downright giddy actually.
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Anyone saying Bucks should've taken Blue should ask themselves if they would buy tickets to a bucks game because of it knowing Blue would be sent to the dleague
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Oladipo's gonna be the flop of the draft.
He is athletic and plays hard, so he will probably succeed. However, he is not as good as Wade was coming out of college, which shows you the difference in the strength of drafts between Wade's year and this one.
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That's the kind of crap losing teams do. Which is exactly why the Bucks should have done it.
Oh... they have. See: Leuer, Jon; Nordgaard, Jeff; Griffith, Rashard... and those are just the ones they've picked in the first two rounds.
Does it surprise anyone that the Bucks haven't drafted one or two players from UW-Eau Claire? No... because they've drafted three!
(Incidentally, the Bucks have never drafted an MU player in the first two rounds; I think the Goose was the highest they ever picked out of MU.)
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He is athletic and plays hard, so he will probably succeed. However, he is not as good as Wade was coming out of college, which shows you the difference in the strength of drafts between Wade's year and this one.
BINGO. Yet some clowns here want to compare this draft to others as if a top 5 pick in this draft is equivalent to a top 5 pick in other drafts. LOL. FRICKING HILARIOUS, but anything to bang on their boy.
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This is the worst draft I've ever seen.
PS Has any coach ever failed to reach an Elite 8 with 2 top 5 draft picks in 1 year before?
Think about your own question. Worst draft you have EVER seen, yet then you ask a question if 2 top 5 draft picks in another draft failed to make the Elite 8.
Think about....just for a minute....think about it. When you're done, help Lenny out because he apparently doesn't get it either.
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BINGO. Yet some clowns here want to compare this draft to others as if a top 5 pick in this draft is equivalent to a top 5 pick in other drafts. LOL. FRICKING HILARIOUS, but anything to bang on their boy.
You have it all wrong, but you already know that. Nobody is comparing this year's class to 2003's. Nobody is saying that Indiana is the best team in the past 50 years in college basketball. But the fact of the matter is that Indiana had 2 of the top 4 picks in the NBA Draft (whether it was a strong class or not does not matter, it means they had 2 of the 4 best players in college basketball, at worst), and failed to make it past the Sweet 16. That's pretty bad.
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Think about your own question. Worst draft you have EVER seen, yet then you ask a question if 2 top 5 draft picks in another draft failed to make the Elite 8.
Think about....just for a minute....think about it. When you're done, help Lenny out because he apparently doesn't get it either.
No, man, you're the one who doesn't get it. When a team has 2 of the top 4 draft picks, does that not mean they have 2 of the 4 top players in college basketball for that year? It's a simple yes or no question. Don't beat around the bush and spin things into making Crean anything more than he is, a good recruiter who can't coach.
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You have it all wrong, but you already know that. Nobody is comparing this year's class to 2003's. Nobody is saying that Indiana is the best team in the past 50 years in college basketball. But the fact of the matter is that Indiana had 2 of the top 4 picks in the NBA Draft (whether it was a strong class or not does not matter, it means they had 2 of the 4 best players in college basketball, at worst), and failed to make it past the Sweet 16. That's pretty bad.
Why am I not surprised you don't get it.
....the claim is that with 2 of the top 5 picks, how could you not win the championship, blah blah blah. Then you and others go into let's look at other years where two top 5 picks were chosen and how they did...that is a DIRECT attempt to state that some how their are equivalencies of top 5 picks in one year to another, which there are not.
As has been said, this is the worst draft you have ever seen (your words) which is quite easily correlated to the players taken are not that great, especially in other drafts (because this is the worst draft you have ever seen...which means other drafts you have seen have been better).
Let's just look at some of the other top 5 drafts as an example
Hakeem
Sam Bowie
Michael Jordan
Sam Perkins
Charles Barkley
Or this one
Lebron James
Darko Milicic
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Etc, etc
Of course this was the worst draft. Having two guys in the top 5 of the worst draft...that's like being tallest midget in the circus, especially when one of them should be 10th to 15th but Michael Jordan, worst exec in the NBA, decided to pick him 10+ spots too high to a chorus of boos and huge bad press in the process.
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Why am I not surprised you don't get it.
....the claim is that with 2 of the top 5 picks, how could you not win the championship, blah blah blah. Then you and others go into let's look at other years where two top 5 picks were chosen and how they did...that is a DIRECT attempt to state that some how their are equivalencies of top 5 picks in one year to another, which there are not.
As has been said, this is the worst draft you have ever seen (your words) which is quite easily correlated to the players taken are not that great, especially in other drafts (because this is the worst draft you have ever seen...which means other drafts you have seen have been better).
Let's just look at some of the other top 5 drafts as an example
Hakeem
Sam Bowie
Michael Jordan
Sam Perkins
Charles Barkley
Or this one
Lebron James
Darko Milicic
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Dwyane Wade
Etc, etc
Of course this was the worst draft. Having two guys in the top 5 of the worst draft...that's like being tallest midget in the circus, especially when one of them should be 10th to 15th but Michael Jordan, worst exec in the NBA, decided to pick him 10+ spots too high to a chorus of boos and huge bad press in the process.
Either you're not as smart as I thought, you're completely insane, or you're just trying to get a response. Maybe it's a combination of the 3. Having 2 guys in the top 5 (4) of the worst draft is not like being the tallest midget in the circus. Again, if we're putting Indiana's 2012-2013 team up against the greatest college basketball teams of all time, or the other teams who have had 2 top 4 draft picks on the same team, then yes it is. But we aren't. We're putting them up against the rest of the 2012-2013 NCAA Men's basketball teams.
I knew you couldn't give a simple yes or no answer to a simple question. Always dodging the question to swing the argument.
Newsflash, college basketball was down as a whole this year. Hence why the NBA Draft was awful this year. It's not like there were all these studs in college basketball last year who didn't enter the draft. In fact, kids (like Vander) were bailing earlier than they should because this was their chance to get drafted. College basketball stunk this year. 2 of the top 4 players in any given year in college basketball are 2 of the top 4 players in college basketball for that year whether the talent in college basketball is as high as ever or as low as ever. If you have 2 of the top 4 players in the country you shouldn't be bowing out in the Sweet 16.
Nobody is saying Indiana had Anthony Davis and MKG. But they had THIS YEAR'S Anthony Davis and MKG. And they lost in the S16, while Kentucky was winning a National Championship a year ago.
If a JV team has 2 of the top 4 players in the JV league, they should have a successful season. If they go 2-10 in conference, I don't think you can say their season wasn't bad because they were JV players. They're not playing varsity players, they're playing other JV players, where they should be able to dominate. (I'm trying to figure out as many different ways to get this easy idea through your head...it won't work, but it's fun to see how confused you can get by a simple concept.)
(Should be a) Pretty simple concept. But I guess not.
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You can play the game all you want Wade and Lenny.
How does Duke with 2 of the first 3 players drafted not go to the Final Four? Coach K can't coach
How does a school that has THREE first round picks not win the title like Ohio State in 2007?
Best one...how does a school with FOUR first round picks not go to the Final Four like UCONN in 2006? Jim Calhoun can't coach.
Or UNLV with six players drafted off a single team, but they don't win the title or even play for it. Coach Tark...what a bumpkin.
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You can play the game all you want Wade and Lenny.
How does Duke with 2 of the first 3 players drafted not go to the Final Four? Coach K can't coach
How does a school that has THREE first round picks not win the title like Ohio State in 2007?
Best one...how does a school with FOUR first round picks not go to the Final Four like UCONN in 2006? Jim Calhoun can't coach.
Or UNLV with six players drafted off a single team, but they don't win the title or even play for it. Coach Tark...what a bumpkin.
Haha well those are easy explanations...the team that won it had 5 NBA draft picks, including 3 of the top 9 picks. Keep trying.
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Think about your own question. Worst draft you have EVER seen, yet then you ask a question if 2 top 5 draft picks in another draft failed to make the Elite 8.
Think about....just for a minute....think about it. When you're done, help Lenny out because he apparently doesn't get it either.
WE don't get it? It's simple (and I do mean simple) math. When you have two of the top 4 picks in the draft IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE whether the draft is weak or strong. It means you have two of the top players in a correspondingly weak or strong college basketball landscape. Your inability to grasp such an easily understandable concept shows an ignorance that is positively stunning. It really shouldn't take you a minute...to...think...about...it, but take some time nonetheless. For now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your eagerness to defend TC has caused a brain malfunction, but if you continue to suggest that having the best midgets in a midget NCAA tournament is any different from having the best tall guys in a tall guy NCAA tournament you are, plain and simply, wrong.
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Think about your own question. Worst draft you have EVER seen, yet then you ask a question if 2 top 5 draft picks in another draft failed to make the Elite 8.
Think about....just for a minute....think about it. When you're done, help Lenny out because he apparently doesn't get it either.
Uh...Chico, did you ever take a logic or rhetoric class at Marquette?
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You have it all wrong, but you already know that. Nobody is comparing this year's class to 2003's. Nobody is saying that Indiana is the best team in the past 50 years in college basketball. But the fact of the matter is that Indiana had 2 of the top 4 picks in the NBA Draft (whether it was a strong class or not does not matter, it means they had 2 of the 4 best players in college basketball, at worst), and failed to make it past the Sweet 16. That's pretty bad.
No, it doesn't mean that at all. Plenty of great college players don't get drafted. Scottie Reynolds was a first-team All-American, which I would say is a much better indicator of being one of the best players in college basketball than draft status, yet he went undrafted. Conversely, Xavier Henry in the same year not only wasn't an All-American, he wasn't even first or second-team in his own conference yet was drafted in the lottery. Draft position has a lot less to do with how good a college player someone is and a lot more to do with how much potential NBA GMs think they have.
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Draft position has a lot less to do with how good a college player someone is and a lot more to do with how much potential NBA GMs think they have.
And of course there is no correlation between demonstrated talent and potential as a professional...
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And of course there is no correlation between demonstrated talent and potential as a professional...
There's a correlation, but it's a rough correlation. Numerous All-Americans either never make the NBA or never make a significant impact.
2010 -- Scottie Reynolds, Sherron Collins, Cole Aldrich, James Anderson, Luke Harangody, Jon Scheyer
2009 -- Sherron Collins, Luke Harangody, Hasheem Thabeet
2008 -- Michael Beasley, Luke Harangody, Shan Foster, Chris Lofton
2007 -- Alando Tucker, Acie Law, Nick Fazekas, Chris Lofton, Greg Oden
2006 -- Adam Morrison, Dee Brown, Allan Ray, PJ Tucker
Some of those guys had a cup of coffee, some a little more, but none were major impact guys and all were consensus first or second team All-Americans. In the case of Harangody, a 3-time All-American and arguably one of the most dominant players in the past couple decades at the collegiate level. These guys were all considered among the 10-12 best players in college basketball and undoubtedly demonstrated a ton of talent in college. What did that mean in the pros? Pretty much jack and squat.
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In the case of Harangody, a 3-time All-American and arguably one of the most dominant players in the past couple decades at the collegiate level.
I've always respected your knowledge of the game, but Harangody one of the most dominant players in the past couple of decades? Please. Dominant players don't win one NCAA tourney game in four seasons. He was a great player to those who look at only offense (points and rebounds), but IIRC, ND's best stretch during his last two years was when he was out of the lineup. Every knowledgeable basketball fan I know considered him one of the most overrated college players in recent memory, not one of the most dominant.
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I've always respected your knowledge of the game, but Harangody one of the most dominant players in the past couple of decades? Please. Dominant players don't win one NCAA tourney game in four seasons. He was a great player to those who look at only offense (points and rebounds), but IIRC, ND's best stretch during his last two years was when he was out of the lineup. Every knowledgeable basketball fan I know considered him one of the most overrated college players in recent memory, not one of the most dominant.
Can you opine then on Shaq?
2 NCAA wins in three years....NCAA player of the year, two time ALL American, two time SEC player of the year...clearly a dominant player, but the NCAA results aren't there.
It's a crapshoot, anything can happen in one game. A team can beat one team in the regular season and lose to that exact same team and not score 40 points only 33 days later. Anything and everything can happen in a one game scenario, something the pros don't have to deal with in a best of 7.
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Fair point. In the same vein, you never know when a coach is going to go up against another coach/program that he has never been able to figure out.
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Can you opine then on Shaq?
2 NCAA wins in three years....NCAA player of the year, two time ALL American, two time SEC player of the year...clearly a dominant player, but the NCAA results aren't there.
Sure. Here's the line on Shaq vs Gody. Three NCAAs in 3 years vs 3 in 4. Two NCAA wins vs one. One national player of the year vs none. Two first team All American teams vs none. Due to his team's only moderate success in both the regular season and the postseason, I don't know if Shaq makes the "most dominant" team over a two decade period. Probably, as he was that good. Harangody wasn't.
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Sure. Here's the line on Shaq vs Gody. Three NCAAs in 3 years vs 3 in 4. Two NCAA wins vs one. One national player of the year vs none. Two first team All American teams vs none. Due to his team's only moderate success in both the regular season and the postseason, I don't know if Shaq makes the "most dominant" team over a two decade period. Probably, as he was that good. Harangody wasn't.
I'm asking why Shaq, a dominant player by any measurement, had trouble racking up wins in the NCAA tournament? I'm happy to provide other dominant players that had ZERO or ONE wins if you wish, but I figured with Shaq no one can deny the dominance and we can just keep it clean without the histrionics on whether said player was dominant or not.
So why with a man so dominant, especially in the college game with is size and agility, only a 2-3 NCAA record in three years? I'm just curious. I'll hang up and listen.
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I'm asking why Shaq, a dominant player by any measurement, had trouble racking up wins in the NCAA tournament? I'm happy to provide other dominant players that had ZERO or ONE wins if you wish, but I figured with Shaq no one can deny the dominance and we can just keep it clean without the histrionics on whether said player was dominant or not.
So why with a man so dominant, especially in the college game with is size and agility, only a 2-3 NCAA record in three years? I'm just curious. I'll hang up and listen.
One difference between the two is the supporting cast. Gody got injured and Notre Dame played its best ball of the year. In the 1990-1991 season, Shaq got injured at the end of the season (fracture in leg below the knee) and they lost 2 straight, including a 15 point laugher to Auburn, who they previously beat by 12.
Shaq had to play on the injured leg so they could have a chance to win. In their loss to Auburn, he scored 27...the next highest scorer had 7.
Another problem for Shaq is he tried to do too much. He was awful...awful if more than 2 feet from the basket. In their tournament loss in the 90-91 season he was 11-22 (not awful stat line). If you remove dunks he was 3-13. He had massive flaws in his game, but had a unique body to dominate. If he had a cast around him so that he could kick the non-dunks back out, they would have one more than 1 game.
Notre Dame had a supporting cast good enough to play better without Gody.
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I'm asking why Shaq, a dominant player by any measurement, had trouble racking up wins in the NCAA tournament? I'm happy to provide other dominant players that had ZERO or ONE wins if you wish, but I figured with Shaq no one can deny the dominance and we can just keep it clean without the histrionics on whether said player was dominant or not.
So why with a man so dominant, especially in the college game with is size and agility, only a 2-3 NCAA record in three years? I'm just curious. I'll hang up and listen.
The key, of course, is ONE man. Shaq's teams didn't lose in the NCAAs because "it's a crapshoot". They lost because they weren't all that good (9 losses was the FEWEST for any LSU team he played on).
Of course, when a team has TWO top five picks, two four star four year starters, a McDonald's All American point guard and the sixth man of the year in the BIG yet almost loses in the round of 32 and is subsequently routed in the round of 16 - well, that's very different. The "crapshoot" apologist crowd insists that the coin almost landed on its edge against Temple and then did against Syracuse. Non-apologists look elsewhere and find, among other things, a coach whose teams shine early but have trouble down the stretch when the lights are the brightest. Can you honestly tell me IU didn't look tight against Temple and Syracuse? To me it was obvious.
I'll hang up and listen.
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You forgot the two guys who made the team that Davante wasn't good enough to make.
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One difference between the two is the supporting cast. Gody got injured and Notre Dame played its best ball of the year. In the 1990-1991 season, Shaq got injured at the end of the season (fracture in leg below the knee) and they lost 2 straight, including a 15 point laugher to Auburn, who they previously beat by 12.
Shaq had to play on the injured leg so they could have a chance to win. In their loss to Auburn, he scored 27...the next highest scorer had 7.
Another problem for Shaq is he tried to do too much. He was awful...awful if more than 2 feet from the basket. In their tournament loss in the 90-91 season he was 11-22 (not awful stat line). If you remove dunks he was 3-13. He had massive flaws in his game, but had a unique body to dominate. If he had a cast around him so that he could kick the non-dunks back out, they would have one more than 1 game.
Notre Dame had a supporting cast good enough to play better without Gody.
Forget Gody comparison....there has been so much hype here on this board that one or 2 guys should lead you to the promised land, especially a dominant player, I'm curious why it didn't happen in Shaq's case (or the many other examples I can give). I think the answer is obvious
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The key, of course, is ONE man. Shaq's teams didn't lose in the NCAAs because "it's a crapshoot". They lost because they weren't all that good (9 losses was the FEWEST for any LSU team he played on).
Of course, when a team has TWO top five picks, two four star four year starters, a McDonald's All American point guard and the sixth man of the year in the BIG yet almost loses in the round of 32 and is subsequently routed in the round of 16 - well, that's very different. The "crapshoot" apologist crowd insists that the coin almost landed on its edge against Temple and then did against Syracuse. Non-apologists look elsewhere and find, among other things, a coach whose teams shine early but have trouble down the stretch when the lights are the brightest. Can you honestly tell me IU didn't look tight against Temple and Syracuse? To me it was obvious.
I'll hang up and listen.
The crapshoot apologist crowd? Like Jay Bilas, Al McGuire, Bill Raftery, John Wooden, etc? That crowd? LOL.
Lots of teams look tight in the NCAA tournament, that's part of the deal...you are playing for your lives. You lose, you are gone. It's a different pressure that even the PROS do not have to go through. You keep ignoring this.
Did Davidson look tight the last 20 seconds as they pissed down their leg? Of course. Welcome to the NCAA tournament. Did MU look tight against Syracuse? Did IU? Yup. Did Duke against LeHigh? Did Marquette against Miami U back in the day? Would MU have beaten Miami 9 out of 10 times...most likely.
Tournament is a different animal. One and done changes the equation radically. There's a reason why one of the top 4 seeds in the NBA wins the NBA title almost always....same as there is a reason that one of the top 4 seeds in the NCAAs has a far worse record winning the title. Margin for error is zero. There's also a reason why a team with supposedly better talent can get knocked out much more easily. In the NBA, the Heat lost 6 of their last 14 games in the playoffs, nearly half....yet they are the champions. They get do overs all the time, despite having a stacked lineup. In college, you don't get that luxury.
Biggest crapshoot in all of sports.
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Forget Gody comparison....there has been so much hype here on this board that one or 2 guys should lead you to the promised land, especially a dominant player, I'm curious why it didn't happen in Shaq's case (or the many other examples I can give). I think the answer is obvious
There has been ZERO hype on this board that ONE dominant guy should lead you to the promised land. As usual, you're trying to move the goalposts. The observation made was that in the 9 seasons where a team had two players selected in the top 5 in the NBA draft, all nine reached the Elite 8 and 7 of 9 made the final four. Indiana was the 10th such team and the first one not to make it past the round of 16. When you add 2 four star, four year starters, a Mickey Ds All American point guard and one of the top 2 sixth men in college bball to that equation, that's an epic failure by anyone's standards. Except maybe yours.
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There has been ZERO hype on this board that ONE dominant guy should lead you to the promised land. As usual, you're trying to move the goalposts.
That is the essence of Chico's "debating."
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Crean won four NCAA tourney games in 2003. For that, he deserves credit and for that, I will be grateful.
In his other eight years at Marquette -- combined -- he won 1 NCAA tournament game. One. Among the players on those teams were arguably the best player in school history and 4 others who played multiple NBA seasons.
Aside from that Final Four appearance in 2003, Crean has won a total of 5 NCAA games in his other 13 years as an NCAA basketball coach despite teams that included the aforementioned Marquette players plus two Indiana players who were among the first four selected in the 2013 NBA draft.
(By comparison, Buzz has won 5 NCAA tourney games the last two years alone.)
I will agree that the NCAA tournament is a crapshoot. And I submit that Crean is among the very best at crapping his pants when the lights shine brightest.
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And I submit that Crean is among the very best at crapping his pants when the lights shine brightest.
He also sh1t his pants in the dim, dreary candle light of the NIT First Round...
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The team with the best player in the world by a far margin, along with excellent players in Bosh, Wade, Allen, etc, needed 6 do-overs in the last 14 games. Six...43% of their last two series were do-overs.
College teams get zero.
It's a crapshoot, biggest in all of sports. Bar none.
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The team with the best player in the world by a far margin, along with excellent players in Bosh, Wade, Allen, etc, needed 6 do-overs in the last 14 games. Six...43% of their last two series were do-overs.
College teams get zero.
It's a crapshoot, biggest in all of sports. Bar none.
How'd they do in backs-against-the-wall elimination games?
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% of times the "best team" wins the title
NBA - 50%
NCAAB - 33%
MLB - 29%
NFL - 24%
Crean's teams crap the bed in the postseason - 93%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075
The biggest crapshoot in all of sports, what a joke. Of course, when someone can't comprehend a simple point that a team who has 2 of the top 4 picks in the NBA draft has pretty good talent compared to other teams from that season, stuff like this shouldn't be surprising.
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Love the classy discussion about Crean crapping his pants. While I agree it is a crapshoot, you lower your odds of carping out with studs, and also with good coaching. Those are two things that Duke has had over Coach K's career. Meanwhile, the jury is definitely in on Crean's coaching ability--it is crappy.
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I'd say its full blown diarrhea.
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% of times the "best team" wins the title
NBA - 50%
NCAAB - 33%
MLB - 29%
NFL - 24%
Crean's teams crap the bed in the postseason - 93%
http://www.basketball-reference.com/blog/?p=5075
The biggest crapshoot in all of sports, what a joke. Of course, when someone can't comprehend a simple point that a team who has 2 of the top 4 picks in the NBA draft has pretty good talent compared to other teams from that season, stuff like this shouldn't be surprising.
So the numbers say that the NCAAs are a bigger crapshoot than the NBA playoffs but less of a crapshoot than the MLB playoffs and the NFL playoffs. You can add the NHL to the list of statistically lesser crapshoots, but why rely on the facts when a biased, statistically false opinion is available. LOL
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How'd they do in backs-against-the-wall elimination games?
Like any champion they won all of their win or go home "crapshoots".
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs%3Darticle (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323936404578577752033384718.html?mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs%3Darticle)
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I found this an interesting question so went back through the last 20 years (don't have the time to go back farther) and the answer over that time is "no". Two players from the same college team have gone Top 5 in NBA Draft 9 times since 1993:
2012 Kentucky 1st & 2nd picks NTL Champ.
2010 Kentucky 1st & 5th picks Elite 8
2008 UCLA 4th & 5th picks Final 4
2007 OSU 1st & 4th picks NTL Runner Up
2005 UNC 2nd & 5th picks NTL Champ.
2004 UCONN 2nd & 3rd picks NTL Champ.
2002 Duke 2nd & 3rd picks Elite 8
1998 UNC 4th & 5th picks Final 4
1995 UNC 3rd & 4th picks Final 4
Your data was wrong.
UNC with Michael Jordan and Sam Perkins failed to get past the Sweet 16 in 1984.
Duke, with two top 5 picks failed to get past the Sweet 16 in 2002....they lost to...INDIANA 74-73 in the Sweet 16 game.
Coach Smith, Coach K...both failed
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Your data was wrong.
UNC with Michael Jordan and Sam Perkins failed to get past the Sweet 16 in 1984.
Duke, with two top 5 picks failed to get past the Sweet 16 in 2002....they lost to...INDIANA 74-73 in the Sweet 16 game.
Coach Smith, Coach K...both failed
As soon as Coach Crean manages to average more than 0.6 NCAA tournament victories per season -- a ratio that is a tad behind those of Coach Smith and Coach K -- your comparison will be relevant.
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Your data was wrong.
UNC with Michael Jordan and Sam Perkins failed to get past the Sweet 16 in 1984.
Duke, with two top 5 picks failed to get past the Sweet 16 in 2002....they lost to...INDIANA 74-73 in the Sweet 16 game.
Coach Smith, Coach K...both failed
Regarding UNC in 1984: If you could read I said I only went back 20 years. Data not wrong.
Regarding Duke in 2002: you are correct. You are totally vindicated. Crean doesn't suck ass. Happy?
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Hopefully we'll never have to deal with consistent NCAA tournament failure under Buzz (even though MU isn't I4), but in the event we have a few off years - I can't wait to read the impassioned defenses for Buzz - Chicos most certainly will submit and author.