Ouch.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9398053/sources-georgetown-hoyas-forward-greg-whittington-miss-season-injuring-knee
I feel like we've joined the A-10. I hate that we're the best team in this thing. And yes I know Creighton returns Doug McDermott.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
I feel like we've joined the A-10. I hate that we're the best team in this thing. And yes I know Creighton returns Doug McDermott.
? Does not compute.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
I feel like we've joined the A-10. I hate that we're the best team in this thing. And yes I know Creighton returns Doug McDermott.
Yeah, totally sucks that Marquette is its conference favorite. Imagine all that annoying national play MU is going to get from the Fox network. I shudder to think of what it'll be like to see Marquette being promoted during NFL playoff games. Just like the A-10.
Also feeling terrible right now: Kentucky and Duke.
Even if G'town returned Otto Porter I'd feel we're the best team in this league, which is sweet.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2013, 12:03:32 PM
Yeah, totally sucks that Marquette is its conference favorite. Imagine all that annoying national play MU is going to get from the Fox network. I shudder to think of what it'll be like to see Marquette being promoted during NFL playoff games. Just like the A-10.
Also feeling terrible right now: Kentucky, Kansas, and Duke.
fify
We're the top-ranked team in a conference of teams all ranked outside the Top 25. Kansas has OK State, UK has FLA. Duke has UNC, Cuse, Pitt, ND, NC State.
If you do not see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
I feel like we've joined the A-10. I hate that we're the best team in this thing. And yes I know Creighton returns Doug McDermott.
Totally agree. I'd much rather be looking forward to our exciting home-and-home against SMU. At least, that is, until the Football Gods re-roll their yatzee dice and our new biggest rival becomes the UC-Santa Cruz Banana Slugs.
Look, we did the absolute best we could. I have no qualms about the decision. I just wish that going to this important inaugural season we wouldn't have every other team outside the Top 25. We've gotten 3 seeds two years in a row. That's going to be awfully tough to duplicate from this league if so many teams are just average.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
We're the top-ranked team in a conference of teams all ranked outside the Top 25. Kansas has OK State, UK has FLA. Duke has UNC, Cuse, Pitt, ND, NC State.
If you do not see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.
You do realize no official polls have been released right? So you saying we're the top ranked team in a conference of teams all ranked outside the Top 25 is just a matter of opinion. What about a couple of years when a huge amount of teams are in the top 25? You're just upset because the timing of the conference is a rebuilding time for a bunch of the teams.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
We're the top-ranked team in a conference of teams all ranked outside the Top 25. Kansas has OK State, UK has FLA. Duke has UNC, Cuse, Pitt, ND, NC State.
If you do not see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.
My point wasn't to compare the new BE to the ACC or even SEC.
My point was to poke fun at the notion that being the preseason conference favorite is something worthy of hate.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 12:10:26 PM
We're the top-ranked team in a conference of teams all ranked outside the Top 25. Kansas has OK State, UK has FLA. Duke has UNC, Cuse, Pitt, ND, NC State.
If you do not see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.
OK...and what do you suppose Marquette should do about that?
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 12:18:39 PM
Look, we did the absolute best we could. I have no qualms about the decision. I just wish that going to this important inaugural season we wouldn't have every other team outside the Top 25. We've gotten 3 seeds two years in a row. That's going to be awfully tough to duplicate from this league if so many teams are just average.
Gonzaga would beg to differ
Quote from: muarmy81 on June 18, 2013, 12:59:41 PM
Gonzaga would beg to differ
And, fwiw, Xavier earned a #3 seed in 2003 and 2008 and a 4 seed in 2009, coming out of a conference weaker than the new BE.
Memphis earned two #1 seeds and two #2 seeds between 2006 and 2009 coming out of a conference weaker than the new BE.
I mean, in a sense he's right .... MU won't be able to rely as much on its conference opponents to boost its SOS, RPI and seeding.
1. So what?
2. Nonconference scheduling can mitigate some of that
I'm sorry for Georgetown and Greg Whittington. Still, I think they will be better than most people think. The House of Thompson finds ways to win.
As for us, quit your griping. It's like we have nothing better to do so we complain. It's the off-season I guess.
Issue 1: We may have a lower RPI than in year's past. We knew that would happen when Louisville, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh and Syracuse did splitsville on our Big East. What we lost in the process was Cincinnati and UConn, neither one of which will be a Top 25 team.
Item 2: If we take care of business, cut through our schedule like a hot knife through butter, beat the Badgers and win when it counts on our non-conference slate, We'll be fine. Lose to Blundering Bucky, have a .500 record when we head to conference and we're going to pay the price.
Item 3: I still really like our team in 2013-2014. We're stacked and deeper than I ever remember us. We have something special coming and if Buzz and the guys take care of business, we're a legitimate Final Four contender -- and maybe more. I don't care where we end up seeded in the NCAA or ranked during the season, we've got to win six games after the conference tournament to attain our goal. At least five of them will be bloody tough.
I believe what Lens is saying makes a ton of sense. You want this conference to do well the first few years. One would expect to have G'Town, Butler, MU at the top vying for the regular season title, but as other teams dilute the perception of the league might weaken in the media and among fans...not a good thing for a young league.
Fox will certain promote us, but as I've mentioned several times, not everyone is going to carry Fox Sports One in the first year unless some things change. We'll see.
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 12:18:39 PM
Look, we did the absolute best we could. I have no qualms about the decision. I just wish that going to this important inaugural season we wouldn't have every other team outside the Top 25. We've gotten 3 seeds two years in a row. That's going to be awfully tough to duplicate from this league if so many teams are just average.
15-3 or better in this league with a good (not even great) showing against a non-con schedule like we currently have lined up gets you a 3 seed nearly every year. We had to finish 1st and 2nd in the old Big East to do the same, not sure how this is any different really (in terms of our potential for a 3 seed next year).
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 18, 2013, 02:25:07 PM
15-3 or better in this league with a good (not even great) showing against a non-con schedule like we currently have lined up gets you a 3 seed nearly every year. We had to finish 1st and 2nd in the old Big East to do the same, not sure how this is any different really (in terms of our potential for a 3 seed next year).
Maybe. Memphis went 16-0 in their conference and 30-4 overall and got a 6 seed. I don't think the new Big East will be below CUSA, but I'm merely pointing out that a quality brand basketball school like Memphis with an impressive record could do no better than a 6. I think the first place Big East team has a shot at a 3, but the margin for error is going to be a bunch smaller than the last few years.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 18, 2013, 02:34:16 PM
Maybe. Memphis went 16-0 in their conference and 30-4 overall and got a 6 seed. I don't think the new Big East will be below CUSA, but I'm merely pointing out that a quality brand basketball school like Memphis with an impressive record could do no better than a 6. I think the first place Big East team has a shot at a 3, but the margin for error is going to be a bunch smaller than the last few years.
Because their best nonconference wins were over Harvard, Ohio and Tennessee, and has no wins over RPI top 25 teams. All three of their wins over RPI top 50 teams were over the same team (Southern Miss)
MU is gonna have at least 10 rpi 100 victories from the conference schedule. They will be ok, but they will probably need 6 losses or less to get a top 3 seed.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2013, 02:59:27 PM
Because their best nonconference wins were over Harvard, Ohio and Tennessee.
Guess somebody missed (or ignored) the part "with a good (not even great) showing against a non-con schedule like we currently have lined up." Wins over Harvard, Ohio, and Tennesse does not fit that criteria. Had they beaten 2 of VCU (N), Minnesota (N), Louisville (H), Xavier (A) a.k.a. good but not great, they likely would have been a 3 seed, and at the very least a 4.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 18, 2013, 03:39:19 PM
Guess somebody missed (or ignored) the part "with a good (not even great) showing against a non-con schedule like we currently have lined up." Wins over Harvard, Ohio, and Tennesse does not fit that criteria. Had they beaten 2 of VCU (N), Minnesota (N), Louisville (H), Xavier (A) a.k.a. good but not great, they likely would have been a 3 seed, and at the very least a 4.
I didn't miss it. I guess it comes down to what is "good, not even great" against non-conference schedule. Harvard was a NCAA team, Tennessee was on the bubble. They lost to NCAA VCU, NCAA Minnesota, NCAA Louisville, NCAA bubble Xavier.
Memphis Out of Conference Schedule strength this year was 59. Marquette's was 84. I don't think their out of conference schedule was that horrific.
Certainly not great, but I guess we have different definitions of good enough, especially in line with a 16-0 conference record. I'm not disputing that a 3 seed is possible, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see the league's winner get a 4 or 5 seed, too.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 18, 2013, 03:49:05 PM
I didn't miss it. I guess it comes down to what is "good, not even great" against non-conference schedule. Harvard was a NCAA team, Tennessee was on the bubble. They lost to NCAA VCU, NCAA Minnesota, NCAA Louisville, NCAA bubble Xavier.
Memphis Out of Conference Schedule strength this year was 59. Marquette's was 84. I don't think their out of conference schedule was that horrific.
Certainly not great, but I guess we have different definitions of good enough, especially in line with a 16-0 conference record. I'm not disputing that a 3 seed is possible, but I also wouldn't be surprised to see the league's winner get a 4 or 5 seed, too.
You're getting caught in the minutia.
#1 Win games.
#2 Schedule enough tough games (conf. and/or non-conf) to create a good schedule.
#3 Profit
If MU goes 30-4, they will be higher than a #6 seed. I'd bet my house.
Oh, and just to be clear, I understand that the winner of the Big East is no longer an almost automatic for a #1 seed, but the conference is good enough that the conf. champ should have a reasonable shot at a 1,2 or 3.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 18, 2013, 03:49:05 PM
I didn't miss it. I guess it comes down to what is "good, not even great" against non-conference schedule. Harvard was a NCAA team, Tennessee was on the bubble. They lost to NCAA VCU, NCAA Minnesota, NCAA Louisville, NCAA bubble Xavier.
Memphis Out of Conference Schedule strength this year was 59. Marquette's was 84. I don't think their out of conference schedule was that horrific.
It's not just who you play, it's who you beat. The one NCAA team they beat all year was a 14 seed.
Memphis only beat one RPI top 50 team prior to the tournament.
I can pretty much guarantee you that Marquette will never go undefeated in conference without beating more than one top 50 team.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 18, 2013, 01:10:24 PM
The House of Thompson finds ways to win.
Not in the tournament where he is actually pretty terrible. Since he took over in 2004 he's made the tournament 6 times. He made the Final Four in 06/07 but that was with Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert who were players that he inherited.
Other than that he's been to the tourney 5 times and hasn't even made the second weekend. If I were a G'town fan I'd be pretty pissed about that and if it weren't for his old man he might have been fired by now.
Also, personally, I don't care about regular season success if it turns into an early trip home come March.
Quote from: cbowe3 on June 18, 2013, 12:05:07 PM
Even if G'town returned Otto Porter I'd feel we're the best team in this league, which is sweet.
Boy, I can't agree with you there.
Quote from: cbowe3 on June 18, 2013, 04:42:06 PM
Not in the tournament where he is actually pretty terrible. Since he took over in 2004 he's made the tournament 6 times. He made the Final Four in 06/07 but that was with Jeff Green and Roy Hibbert who were players that he inherited.
Other than that he's been to the tourney 5 times and hasn't even made the second weekend. If I were a G'town fan I'd be pretty pissed about that and if it weren't for his old man he might have been fired by now.
Also, personally, I don't care about regular season success if it turns into an early trip home come March.
Huh, for some reason I feel like I've heard this story in Marquette's basketball history. Can't exactly put my finger on when or who the coach is, though...
Quote from: The Lens on June 18, 2013, 11:54:33 AM
I feel like we've joined the A-10. I hate that we're the best team in this thing. And yes I know Creighton returns Doug McDermott.
Yeah, I hate that the Big East became tainted in the last two years of the league. Up until that point, it was the best basketball conference in the history of college basketball. But with Marquette winning the Big East in the final year of the old Big East, it has become on par with the A-10. And having taken 2nd the year before, it was like we were the Pac-12 that year. What a bummer.
Georgetown will be fine. We're still a tournament team and go from being the favorite to win the BE to being second to you guys. And yes we've struggled in the tournament as of late, but regular season success counts too. I'm quiet happy with our 3 BE regular season titles thank you very much and our Big East Tournament title.
I expect Josh Smith to play second semester no matter what. With smith, Starks, D'Vauntes-Smith Rivera, Jabril Trawick, and Nate Lubick as well as a number of top 100 recruits coming off the bench we'll be more than fine.
Georgetown has cleared house with Assistants and brought in new blood that I think will pay dividends in recruiting and on the court. It only takes one deep post season run to erase the last 5 years of post season frustration.
There are Georgetown fans who are upset with Thompson's results, but I can't imagine a better a coach we could get to lead us.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on June 18, 2013, 09:44:09 PM
There are Georgetown fans who are upset with Thompson's results, but I can't imagine a better a coach we could get to lead us.
It's Georgetown! It's Georgetown!
I look at it differently, instead of having to regularly play a few in conference "losers" because of a too large conference, MU now gets to schedule the right teams each year. This can be for recruiting purposes, TV exposure, and to build the RPI. Overall, it's a better situation than being in a conference that's not focused on hoops.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 18, 2013, 04:14:05 PM
It's not just who you play, it's who you beat. The one NCAA team they beat all year was a 14 seed.
Memphis only beat one RPI top 50 team prior to the tournament.
I can pretty much guarantee you that Marquette will never go undefeated in conference without beating more than one top 50 team.
It's called arguing for argument's sake. Dude's a pro.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 18, 2013, 04:03:41 PM
If MU goes 30-4, they will be higher than a #6 seed. I'd bet my house.
We agree. My point was more if we go 15-3 in conference and a 3 seed apparently awaits us ("nearly every year"), I'm not so sure. I said maybe...and for that the feathers are ruffled. LOL
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 18, 2013, 11:46:28 PM
We agree. My point was more if we go 15-3 in conference and a 3 seed apparently awaits us ("nearly every year"), I'm not so sure. I said maybe...and for that the feathers are ruffled. LOL
Well, people can be sensitive/defensive about the new conference, and, imho, Chico's 2.0 (since your hiatus) often plays devil's advocate because that role has been ingrained. Everybody says "A", Chico's says: "It might be 'B'", and we are off to the races with some sort of debate that devolves quickly into a dick joke, a bunch of weird comics from a Colonel, and then something about TC.
For this specific topic:
If MU wins enough games, they will get a high seed. Period. We don't need to get much more technical than that (at this point).
Villanova is still gonna be pretty good, Providence is definitely better than anyone is giving them credit for, Xavier missed its first tournament in a long while last year and we have a FRESHMAN PG or D-errick Wilsn with no O. I understand the optimism. I think our frontcourt is the best, I think we have 2 of the best players. I think we have the best recruiting class, but our backcourt has question marks at the 1 and the 2. I have faith this team will be very good but I dk if I am ready to declare us the best in this conference given the unknowns.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 18, 2013, 05:46:38 PM
Yeah, I hate that the Big East became tainted in the last two years of the league. Up until that point, it was the best basketball conference in the history of college basketball. But with Marquette winning the Big East in the final year of the old Big East, it has become on par with the A-10. And having taken 2nd the year before, it was like we were the Pac-12 that year. What a bummer.
...uuummmmm no.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on June 18, 2013, 09:44:09 PM
Georgetown will be fine. We're still a tournament team and go from being the favorite to win the BE to being second to you guys. And yes we've struggled in the tournament as of late, but regular season success counts too. I'm quiet happy with our 3 BE regular season titles thank you very much and our Big East Tournament title.
I expect Josh Smith to play second semester no matter what. With smith, Starks, D'Vauntes-Smith Rivera, Jabril Trawick, and Nate Lubick as well as a number of top 100 recruits coming off the bench we'll be more than fine.
Georgetown has cleared house with Assistants and brought in new blood that I think will pay dividends in recruiting and on the court. It only takes one deep post season run to erase the last 5 years of post season frustration.
There are Georgetown fans who are upset with Thompson's results, but I can't imagine a better a coach we could get to lead us.
Do you, and the Hoya base as a whole, have high expectations for Smith? I've never seen the potential so many talk about and was always put off by his temperament (or lack-thereof) and ill discipline in Westwood. Course, change of scenery has done many a player well in the past.
I stand with those who feel GTown underwhelms in late March but you can't deny that JTIII has rebuilt the winning culture that Esh did such a good job of tearing down. What Thompson did in the middle of January to not only salvage the season but to excel and win a title was most impressive.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 19, 2013, 09:11:05 AM
Do you, and the Hoya base as a whole, have high expectations for Smith? I've never seen the potential so many talk about and was always put off by his temperament (or lack-thereof) and ill discipline in Westwood. Course, change of scenery has done many a player well in the past.
I stand with those who feel GTown underwhelms in late March but you can't deny that JTIII has rebuilt the winning culture that Esh did such a good job of tearing down. What Thompson did in the middle of January to not only salvage the season but to excel and win a title was most impressive.
I do have high expectations. His problem has always been conditioning and from reports he's already improved in that area. The potential is there: He was a 5 star recruit averaged 11pts 6 rebounds as a freshman at UCLA including 17pts and 13 rebounds @ Kansas, 15 pts vs #18 BYU, 17 pts vs #10 Arizona, 14 pts vs. Michigan St in the NCAA tournament, and 16 points vs. Florida in the NCAA tournament among 15 other double digit performances as a freshman, and 16 double digit performances as a sophomore including a career high 24pts against Washington. So it's not like he's never produced at the college level.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on June 19, 2013, 11:04:11 AM
I do have high expectations. His problem has always been conditioning and from reports he's already improved in that area. The potential is there: He was a 5 star recruit averaged 11pts 6 rebounds as a freshman at UCLA including 17pts and 13 rebounds @ Kansas, 15 pts vs #18 BYU, 17 pts vs #10 Arizona, 14 pts vs. Michigan St in the NCAA tournament, and 16 points vs. Florida in the NCAA tournament among 15 other double digit performances as a freshman, and 16 double digit performances as a sophomore including a career high 24pts against Washington. So it's not like he's never produced at the college level.
I didn't mean to imply he was all bust and gust of wind. I know Smith has had good performances that are evened out quite a bit with subpar performances prior to his departure. I just don't see Smith as that great of a weapon. He'll be a space eater and the Hoya system will allow him to cover up his flaws but he's got eight and seven written all over him in my eyes. A poor man's Kentrell Gransberry.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 19, 2013, 02:39:09 PM
I didn't mean to imply he was all bust and gust of wind. I know Smith has had good performances that are evened out quite a bit with subpar performances prior to his departure. I just don't see Smith as that great of a weapon. He'll be a space eater and the Hoya system will allow him to cover up his flaws but he's got eight and seven written all over him in my eyes. A poor man's Kentrell Gransberry.
I'm hoping for more like 13 and 7.
Georgetown should still be a tourney team. Butler should be fine. Creighton behind McDermott will be top-25 all year long. St. John's is going to be good. Xavier and Villanova could both be tournament teams.
We're not going to have a litany of 1s and 2s come Selection Sunday, but I do feel we could have 2-3 teams among the top 4 seed lines and this is a year we could get 6 in the Dance. I feel 4-5 is more likely, but this conference is going to be strong from day one. And Marquette could very well be a 1-seed if they go 16-2 in conference. This league will garner enough respect that anywhere in the 28-30 win range will have them on the top two seed lines.
And as far as Josh Smith...the only way I see him going for 13 and 7 is if we're counting his averages on Big Macs and Large Fries per McDonald's trip.
Jon Rothstein @jonrothstein 1h
JT3 on Josh Smith "People have forgotten him because of him. He's going to be one of the best big men in the country next year."
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on June 24, 2013, 06:48:18 PM
Jon Rothstein @jonrothstein 1h
JT3 on Josh Smith "People have forgotten him because of him. He's going to be one of the best big men in the country next year."
The first part is just as important as the second. Smith was forgotten because he was lazy and overate. If he can overcome that, he could become a great big man, but so far he's shown more tendency toward dodging potential than achieving it.
This is not good news for our conference. This season will determine if we are a legitimate Big Six (Big Seven?) conference or just a rehash of the A10. Greg Whittington was Otto Porter lite and could have helped keep Georgetown in the top 15. This probably knocks them out of the top 25...but definitely still a tournament team
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on June 26, 2013, 11:41:56 PM
This is not good news for our conference. This season will determine if we are a legitimate Big Six (Big Seven?) conference or just a rehash of the A10. Greg Whittington was Otto Porter lite and could have helped keep Georgetown in the top 15. This probably knocks them out of the top 25...but definitely still a tournament team
It was six months ago that Georgetown was headed for a nose dive when Whittington was suspended. All they did then was win the conference title.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 27, 2013, 08:47:25 AM
It was six months ago that Georgetown was headed for a nose dive when Whittington was suspended. All they did then was win the conference title.
This is true. I have no doubt that Georgetown will still be in the running to win the conference this year. But the difference between this year and last year is significant. Georgetown got better after Whittington left because Porter no longer had to compete for the ball and they went to a traditionally sized offense rather than trying to start 4 players who were 6"8 or taller. They'll have a harder time this year replacing his production.