6/15/2013 - 2015 C Chris Egi (6-9, 200, 4★) | Overall Rank: 53 | 2015 has received an offer from Marquette
6/15/2013 - 2015 SG Allonzo Trier (6-2, 175, 3★) | Overall Rank: 32 | 2015 has received an offer from Marquette.
Another C MU called today:
Stephen Zimmerman. From Vegas. He's very good; many big schools have been on him for a long time.
Every time I hear 6'9" I think power forward, not "quality center".
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 15, 2013, 09:12:49 PM
Every time I hear 6'9" I think power forward, not "quality center".
Davante Gardner is 6'8". Is he not a "quality center" in your eyes???
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2013, 06:49:19 PM
Another C MU called today:
Stephen Zimmerman. From Vegas. He's very good; many big schools have been on him for a long time.
Speaking of zimmerman: https://twitter.com/ny2lasports/status/346086902312611840
Also, Looney: https://twitter.com/ny2lasports/status/346086902312611840
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 15, 2013, 09:14:38 PM
Davante Gardner is 6'8". Is he not a "quality center" in your eyes???
No! But a great power forward.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 15, 2013, 09:25:25 PM
No! But a great power forward.
Good lord...Davante's not a power forward. He's a back to the basket center...and a very good one at that.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 15, 2013, 09:44:52 PM
Good lord...Davante's not a power forward. He's a back to the basket center...and a very good one at that.
Ok?
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 15, 2013, 09:12:49 PM
Every time I hear 6'9" I think power forward, not "quality center".
He's in the 2015 class. Maybe he get to 6'10" to please you.
Agree with Sunbelt, that 6'8" is usually a power forward. Would much prefer a taller center to dominate.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on June 16, 2013, 09:58:05 AM
Agree with Sunbelt, that 6'8" is usually a power forward. Would much prefer a taller center to dominate.
Of course you do. You look at his height...not his game.
BTW, Davante was listed as the #10 top *center* in college basketball by Sporting News
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2013-06-14/college-basketball-player-rankings-2013-14-top-10-centers-mitch-mcgary-montrezl/slide/10
Too bad he doesn't meet your height requirement.
I love It.... DG "Too Short" " Not Athletic Enough" He just puts the rock in the hole.
Nuff Said!
Can't we get a good basketball fundamental center who will be a presence when he's on the floor. 6-10 or 6-11 and 240?
A good 3-star blue collar guy.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on June 16, 2013, 11:13:15 AM
Can't we get a good basketball fundamental center who will be a presence when he's on the floor. 6-10 or 6-11 and 240?
A good 3-star blue collar guy.
Does that fit the Buzz mold of guys he goes after?
Quote from: Earl Tatum on June 16, 2013, 11:13:15 AM
Can't we get a good basketball fundamental center who will be a presence when he's on the floor. 6-10 or 6-11 and 240?
A good 3-star blue collar guy.
This is Sean O'Mara, minus an inch (nh).
Anyway, Zimmerman is a highly skilled center. Can really run - would be true if he was 6'8", but is definitely the case as the 7-footer that he is.
Curious how well he holds up against guys getting ultra-physical with him in college.. but, he's a special player.
Just not that many 7 footers out there and some of them want to be shooting guards. DG is a decent college center at 6'8. JWilson was an adequate college center at 6'7. If the guy is 6'8 with post skills and plays the 5, he is a center.
Quote from: tower912 on June 16, 2013, 12:17:17 PM
Just not that many 7 footers out there and some of them want to be shooting guards. DG is a decent college center at 6'8.
Not to just harp on you here, but DG is way more than a "decent college center." For instance he was one of five centers to be invited to the 2013 World University Games try outs.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/03/usa-basketball-announces-training-camp-roster-for-world-university-games/
For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many Marquette fans don't think as highly of their team's players as other people do. Davante Gardner is one of the best centers in college basketball...appreciate it.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 16, 2013, 04:29:58 PM
Not to just harp on you here, but DG is way more than a "decent college center." For instance he was one of five centers to be invited to the 2013 World University Games try outs.
http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/06/03/usa-basketball-announces-training-camp-roster-for-world-university-games/
For the life of me, I cannot understand why so many Marquette fans don't think as highly of their team's players as other people do. Davante Gardner is one of the best centers in college basketball...appreciate it.
I've been hard on Gardner because he was an awful defender and is still a below average defender (improving a lot the last year though). He also tends to play significantly harder on the offensive end (offensive rebounds) than on the defensive end, again improving though.
Harp if you must. DG has made great strides and has had great moments. I think Buzz is right to platoon him with Otule, as DG is still a defensive liability. I am glad he has gotten the invite and hope it inspires him to become a more complete player. Also, unless he drops another 25 lbs, I don't think he makes it to the league. He has been a revelation as a college player, however, and I sure am glad MU has him. But he still struggles to get his shot off against athletic bigs with decent technique. What he does have going for him is great hands, great feet, a soft touch, and a good understanding how to use his bulk to create space, as well as finish through contact.
Sultanskink, not too long ago, we disagreed about JWilson. You said he just wasn't athletic enough, I said he had all the athletic ability he needed, he just needed to play smarter, knowing when to be aggressive and how to not commit stupid early fouls. I'm not bagging on Gardner. He is the best post player MU has had since Damon Key. And I don't think MU needs a one-and-done 7 ft'er to win. I believe in developing bigs over time. I just don't think DG is an elite center yet.
Quote from: forgetful on June 16, 2013, 05:02:10 PM
I've been hard on Gardner because he was an awful defender and is still a below average defender (improving a lot the last year though). He also tends to play significantly harder on the offensive end (offensive rebounds) than on the defensive end, again improving though.
On offense he locks up an area with his size and makes a great effort within that area. On defense he has to cover more area, so you are not comparing the same thing. Often times he is trying to cover someone outside the three point line and I am pretty sure he is expending more energy doing that than he is on offense underneath the basket.
Quote from: bilsu on June 16, 2013, 07:52:27 PM
On offense he locks up an area with his size and makes a great effort withib that area. On defense he has to cover more area, so you are not comparing the same thing. Often times he is trying to cover someone outside the three point line and I am pretty sure he is expending more energy doing that than he is on offense underneath the basket.
Not referring to energy expenditure, you always spend more energy playing defense. More so intensity in going after rebounds, sealing off you man etc. He does a better job of that on the offensive end.
His motto is I get buckets, I think to some extent that is his mentality, offensive oriented.
He is getting better at maintaining that same intensity on Defense. He had a few games this year where he did it, we need that out of him every possession.
Glad to see this thread has stayed on topic.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 15, 2013, 09:14:38 PM
Davante Gardner is 6'8". Is he not a "quality center" in your eyes???
No, you can't play C at 6'8'' in the NBA.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on June 16, 2013, 10:53:12 PM
No, you can't play C at 6'8'' in the NBA.
(http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/Unseld.jpg)
(http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Houston+Rockets+v+Los+Angeles+Lakers+Game+158a3um_Ynyl.jpg)
Quote from: Rockmic87 on June 16, 2013, 10:53:12 PM
No, you can't play C at 6'8'' in the NBA.
Did Marquette suddenly join the NBA? What could his potential in the NBA have to do with his being an effective C for Marquette?
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 16, 2013, 11:15:15 PM
(http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/sports/thetoydepartment/Unseld.jpg)
(http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Houston+Rockets+v+Los+Angeles+Lakers+Game+158a3um_Ynyl.jpg)
But they're not good....
Quote from: Rockmic87 on June 17, 2013, 12:48:08 AM
But they're not good....
Wes Unseld=no good? He averaged 14 boards and 10.8 points per game. I'll take that kind of no good from a center any day.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on June 17, 2013, 06:34:28 AM
Wes Unseld=no good? He averaged 14 boards and 10.8 points per game. I'll take that kind of no good from a center any day.
Wes Unseld was Rookie of the Year and MVP in his first season with the Bullets.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on June 17, 2013, 12:48:08 AM
But they're not good....
Chuck Hayes is at most 6'7". He averaged 11-9 and 11-8 his junior and senior years at Kentucky. I'd take that out of a Marquette center.
Recruits want to start and play, this is a perfect situation for a player to come in and take the bull by the horn. Since there is 4 offers available, I see MU taking 3 early signing
period and wait for the grad student to transfer in and start like Lockett. That way Stone can come in the following year if Buzz or Duane Wilson can get him to MU, and that will
not be easy.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on June 17, 2013, 12:48:08 AM
But they're not good....
In 1996, Wes was named as one of the top 50 NBA players OF ALL TIME.
If we didn't have Otule's 6'11" frame with his shot changing and blocking ability, and only had Gardner in the middle defensively, we would not have had the success we had this season. And, Otule is a average center, but he is more effective at the position than Gardner. Gardner is a below average center, but great power forward because of his defense.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 17, 2013, 09:37:17 AM
If we didn't have Otule's 6'11" frame with his shot changing and blocking ability, and only had Gardner in the middle defensively, we would not have had the success we had this season. And, Otule is a average center, but he is more effective at the position than Gardner. Gardner is a below average center, but great power forward because of his defense.
Gardner is *not* a power forward. He is a center. Honestly, what part of his game says that he is a power forward to you??? I mean, he doesn't even play the power forward position unless he is on the floor as the same time as Otule, and that was what...maybe 3% of the time last year??
And he is a "below average center," yet was one of five *centers* nationwide to be selected to try out for the World University Games team?? Apparently USA Basketball thinks he's a good center...and DeCourcy at Sporting News feels the same.... Too bad they didn't consult Sunbelt to get the height requirements first....
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 17, 2013, 09:37:17 AM
If we didn't have Otule's 6'11" frame with his shot changing and blocking ability, and only had Gardner in the middle defensively, we would not have had the success we had this season. And, Otule is a average center, but he is more effective at the position than Gardner. Gardner is a below average center, but great power forward because of his defense.
Gardner has huge issues on the D end, still does not know how to use his weight to block out, Wes Unseld did. The best thing that Devante has going is playing or trying out for the World
Games as he gets coaching from other coaches than Buzz. Maybe they can light a spark on that end. If he does not make that team, that will tell him something as well. Good to be invited, he will know where he stands going forward in his career. Otule and Gardner are great compliments to each other, both are average centers, put them together, and they are better than most teams in college. Otule could have a break out year if they learn to pass to him. Vander never did, Cadougan was average doing that as well.
Reading all of the postings on a center, my thought is that the folks posting ahead of me seem to want Jerome Whitehead, Jimmy Mac, Robert Jackson and a bit of Kareem rolled in for good measure all manifested in our next center.
Folks, it aint going to happen.
First of all, the seven foot center is all but obsolete in college basketball. The game is very mobile, it's inside-out and the three-point line neutralizes much of the reason why you want a "force" inside. Look at the way Davidson almost beat us! You think a 7', NBA-ready center would have helped? Maybe a little at the margin.
Secondly, if a center is so talented that the NBA is closely following him, he won't be a four-year Warrior. If we're lucky, we'd get two years. Look at the MU teams that were really successful (2001-2002 and 1977-1978). Things gelled as the team played together. The bulk of the 1977 team was juniors and seniors. Same was true for the core of the 2002 team (DWade and RJ).
Thirdly, I like what we have and the way we play the game. We get a dominant center in and chances are we may treat him the way a junkie treats cocaine. Need a quick basket? Jam it inside and collapse the defense! It's easier. The way our team plays, we spread the ball around among five guys in a slashing and shooting operation.
Gardner is definitely a college center. There are only a few times he will have to go up against a good 7 footer since they would be in the NBA if they were ready.
Gardner would be horrible in the NBA as a center. If he got quicker he could be an offensive pf but that's about it. Guys would just be too athletic for him at that level. There are exceptions in unseld and Ben Wallace who have extreme talent but there is a reason teams reach for height and 6'8" (relatively) slow pf's are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Lets just say I love that we have Gardner and think he is a great player for MU but I would be pissed if the bucks wasted a pick on him.
So, there are posts now on this board calling Wes Unseld "not that good,"
and Davante Gardner an "average center." That's some high grade facepalm.
Quote from: lab_warrior on June 17, 2013, 12:07:20 PM
So, there are posts now on this board calling Wes Unseld "not that good,"
and Davante Gardner an "average center." That's some high grade facepalm.
Well put.
Quote from: lab_warrior on June 17, 2013, 12:07:20 PM
So, there are posts now on this board calling Wes Unseld "not that good,"
and Davante Gardner an "average center." That's some high grade facepalm.
Sometimes I think there needs to be a test of some sort to be able to participate here. Of course that would rob me of some humor...
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 17, 2013, 10:05:27 AM
Gardner is *not* a power forward. He is a center. Honestly, what part of his game says that he is a power forward to you??? I mean, he doesn't even play the power forward position unless he is on the floor as the same time as Otule, and that was what...maybe 3% of the time last year??
And he is a "below average center," yet was one of five *centers* nationwide to be selected to try out for the World University Games team?? Apparently USA Basketball thinks he's a good center...and DeCourcy at Sporting News feels the same.... Too bad they didn't consult Sunbelt to get the height requirements first....
Forget Gardner. I'm just saying, I would like for another 6'11" or taller player to replace our departing 6'11" player because Otule's height makes most teams think twice about going down low. It also helps when rebounding unless you had a gifted player like D. Rodman or the shot-block timing of Alonzo Mourning. Those extra 2 or 3 inches makes a big difference. Similar to Vander's situation. If he had 2 more inches in height, he would be looked at as an adaquate shooting guard, able to play both ends of the floor comfortable. But, since he doesn't, he has to have skills of a smaller point guard.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 17, 2013, 12:37:11 PM
Forget Gardner. I'm just saying, I would like for another 6'11" or taller player to replace our departing 6'11" player because Otule's height makes most teams think twice about going down low.
Now *that* is something I completely agree with.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on June 17, 2013, 12:37:11 PM
Forget Gardner. I'm just saying, I would like for another 6'11" or taller player to replace our departing 6'11" player because Otule's height makes most teams think twice about going down low. It also helps when rebounding unless you had a gifted player like D. Rodman or the shot-block timing of Alonzo Mourning. Those extra 2 or 3 inches makes a big difference. Similar to Vander's situation. If he had 2 more inches in height, he would be looked at as an adaquate shooting guard, able to play both ends of the floor comfortable. But, since he doesn't, he has to have skills of a smaller point guard.
Vander has to have the skill set of a "smaller point guard?" Disagree there. Vander is 6'4" and very athletic. If he could shoot the ball worth a damn he'd be a lottery pick as a shooting guard. If he could shoot the ball and had point guard skills he'd be the first pick overall.
Quote from: tower912 on June 16, 2013, 06:39:36 PM
Harp if you must. DG has made great strides and has had great moments. I think Buzz is right to platoon him with Otule, as DG is still a defensive liability. I am glad he has gotten the invite and hope it inspires him to become a more complete player. Also, unless he drops another 25 lbs, I don't think he makes it to the league. He has been a revelation as a college player, however, and I sure am glad MU has him. But he still struggles to get his shot off against athletic bigs with decent technique. What he does have going for him is great hands, great feet, a soft touch, and a good understanding how to use his bulk to create space, as well as finish through contact.
Sultanskink, not too long ago, we disagreed about JWilson. You said he just wasn't athletic enough, I said he had all the athletic ability he needed, he just needed to play smarter, knowing when to be aggressive and how to not commit stupid early fouls. I'm not bagging on Gardner. He is the best post player MU has had since Damon Key. And I don't think MU needs a one-and-done 7 ft'er to win. I believe in developing bigs over time. I just don't think DG is an elite center yet.
Robert Jackson has something to say to that...
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 15, 2013, 06:49:19 PM
Another C MU called today:
Stephen Zimmerman. From Vegas. He's very good; many big schools have been on him for a long time.
Zimmerman was offered by Kentucky today.
Quote from: lab_warrior on June 17, 2013, 12:07:20 PM
So, there are posts now on this board calling Wes Unseld "not that good,"
and Davante Gardner an "average center." That's some high grade facepalm.
I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was sarcastic due to the "....."
;)
Quote from: jesmu84 on June 17, 2013, 04:39:47 PM
Zimmerman was offered by Kentucky today.
When it comes to 5-star recruits, the recruiting season doesnt start until UK (and a few other programs) identify their targets.
With the recent hire UK made to their athletic department, haters of Cal can put to bed the idea of him (or anyone else affiliated with that program) ever getting caught for an infraction. I suppose it isnt impossible, but it is highly unlikely at this point. As many former coaches have speculated, Cal is far more likely to get in trouble for something he did in the first 2-3 years of taking the UK job than he is of getting caught for anything now. I dont think he needs to cheat at this point...he created a machine...an image...a brand...of a program that is already considered a blue blood. Quite frankly, calling UK a blue blood is probably an insult since they are better than the rest of that group.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 17, 2013, 09:04:32 AM
In 1996, Wes was named as one of the top 50 NBA players OF ALL TIME.
So was Scottie pippen.
Quote from: Atticus on June 17, 2013, 09:37:41 PM
When it comes to 5-star recruits, the recruiting season doesnt start until UK (and a few other programs) identify their targets.
With the recent hire UK made to their athletic department, haters of Cal can put to bed the idea of him (or anyone else affiliated with that program) ever getting caught for an infraction. I suppose it isnt impossible, but it is highly unlikely at this point. As many former coaches have speculated, Cal is far more likely to get in trouble for something he did in the first 2-3 years of taking the UK job than he is of getting caught for anything now. I dont think he needs to cheat at this point...he created a machine...an image...a brand...of a program that is already considered a blue blood. Quite frankly, calling UK a blue blood is probably an insult since they are better than the rest of that group.
All those recent National Championships are tough to argue with. Oh wait...
Quote from: wadesworld on June 17, 2013, 09:58:17 PM
All those recent National Championships are tough to argue with. Oh wait...
Pffftt. If they keep recruiting the way they are, they will win NC's every couple of years. How many programs can say that? I would gladly accept an NIT bid if it means winning an NC in the prior year. Odds are in their favor...and Vegas and the average college bball fan agrees.
Quote from: Atticus on June 17, 2013, 10:06:24 PM
Pffftt. If they keep recruiting the way they are, they will win NC's every couple of years. How many programs can say that? I would gladly accept an NIT bid if it means winning an NC in the prior year. Odds are in their favor...and Vegas and the average college bball fan agrees.
Are they an "OVERWHELMING" favorite to win it all this coming season?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2013, 10:37:54 PM
Are they an "OVERWHELMING" favorite to win it all this coming season?
UK won their last NC because they had they best freshmen in the country and were able to sprinkle in sophs and juniors. Their team this year will ne very similar....
Charles Matthews also offered by UK today.
Malek Harris (Class of 2014, 6'7" 190 lbs) is taking an unofficial visit to Marquette on June 26. He is a 4 star on ESPN and a 3 star on 247Sports, Rivals, and Scout.
Quote from: Atticus on June 17, 2013, 10:47:36 PM
UK won their last NC because they had they best freshmen in the country and were able to sprinkle in sophs and juniors. Their team this year will ne very similar....
If the team gels like it could then yeah....but if it doesn't, or if injuries take out some of their better freshmen, then no.
Cal is doing a high-risk/high-reward option. Getting one-and-done talent can work spectacularly, or it can fail spectacularly.
Jeff Borzello @jeffborzello
Top-30 prospect Ahmed Hill says Indiana, Florida, Georgia Tech and Marquette are coming at him the hardest
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22465803/top30-prospect-ahmed-hill-has-four-in-hot-pursuit (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22465803/top30-prospect-ahmed-hill-has-four-in-hot-pursuit)
Quote from: I don't care on June 18, 2013, 02:46:10 PM
Jeff Borzello @jeffborzello
Top-30 prospect Ahmed Hill says Indiana, Florida, Georgia Tech and Marquette are coming at him the hardest
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22465803/top30-prospect-ahmed-hill-has-four-in-hot-pursuit (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22465803/top30-prospect-ahmed-hill-has-four-in-hot-pursuit)
Thank you for posting new, relevant information and avoiding the incessant, irrelevant pissing matches these threads always turn into.
Quote from: I don't care on June 18, 2013, 02:46:10 PM
Jeff Borzello @jeffborzello
Top-30 prospect Ahmed Hill says Indiana, Florida, Georgia Tech and Marquette are coming at him the hardest
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22465803/top30-prospect-ahmed-hill-has-four-in-hot-pursuit (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22465803/top30-prospect-ahmed-hill-has-four-in-hot-pursuit)
QuoteKansas, North Carolina, North Carolina State, Louisville, Indiana, Marquette, Tennessee, Texas, Connecticut, Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Georgia Tech and Alabama are the ones Hill listed. He's taken unofficial visit to most of the local schools -- Georgia, Georgia Tech -- as well as NC State.
Right now, four schools are coming at him the hardest: Indiana, Florida, Georgia Tech and Marquette.
"They're great programs," Hill said. "Me and the head coaches talk pretty much twice a week. We always have a great feel; we always talk about important things. I want to go a school where me and the head coach have a lot in common. I can talk to him about anything, have a father-son relationship."
Hill plans to take his official visits in the fall, but he's not sure which ones he's going to check out.
He needs to trim his suitors first.
"I'm trying to come up with a list now," Hill said. "Probably down to six."
Hopefully, the six are the 4 listed and some smaller schools. Would be nice not to have to compete against UNC, Louisville, etc
In Minneapolis a few weeks ago, Ahmed talked about an interest in a "father-son relationship" (http://www.insidethehall.com/2013/05/28/ahmed-hills-relationship-with-indiana-continues-to-grow/)when looking at schools. Born and raised in Georgia, but said he had no problem playing wherever... distance isn't a factor.
Florida, Louisville, UNC are all fairly new for him. I4 has been on him a long time.
His Southern Stampede team juuust barely missed on making the Peach jam.
Quote from: netty24 on June 18, 2013, 02:59:15 PM
Thank you for posting new, relevant information and avoiding the incessant, irrelevant pissing matches these threads always turn into.
+1.
Quote from: Jay Bee on June 18, 2013, 08:04:44 PM
In Minneapolis a few weeks ago, Ahmed talked about an interest in a "father-son relationship" (http://www.insidethehall.com/2013/05/28/ahmed-hills-relationship-with-indiana-continues-to-grow/)when looking at schools. Born and raised in Georgia, but said he had no problem playing wherever... distance isn't a factor.
Florida, Louisville, UNC are all fairly new for him. I4 has been on him a long time.
His Southern Stampede team juuust barely missed on making the Peach jam.
Here BeeJay, you're an intelligent man. Would you want Crean or Buzz as you're father? 'Nough said---signed, sealed, delivered. Next up,dudes.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2013, 10:37:54 PM
Are they an "OVERWHELMING" favorite to win it all this coming season?
You mean similar to Indiana being the consensus favorite to win the National Championship going into the 2012-13 season?
Quote from: I don't care on June 18, 2013, 01:13:34 AM
Malek Harris (Class of 2014, 6'7" 190 lbs) is taking an unofficial visit to Marquette on June 26. He is a 4 star on ESPN and a 3 star on 247Sports, Rivals, and Scout.
So likely, he will be here for Buzz's BBQ.
Any other prospects mentioned to be there?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 17, 2013, 10:37:54 PM
Are they an "OVERWHELMING" favorite to win it all this coming season?
Call them whatever you will, but if they don't make it past the round of 16, everyone at UK (coaches, players, fans, etc.) will look on the season as disappointing.