Previews and predictions are nice, but sometimes you've got to go all-in on a player. This guy is the real deal:
http://painttouches.com/2013/05/31/column-the-next-best-marquette-point-guard/
DJames athleticism + 2" and a money jumper (50+% from thee senior year). Got a killer work ethic and his eye on the prize to boot. No doubt in my mind dude's gonna be a star.
Strotty, I appreciate your optimism and really have no quarrels with it. But this line is cringe-worthy in a sports-cliches-I-hate kind of way:
"And maybe more important than anything he did at Dominican H.S. or the Hall of Famers he spoke with the last two offseasons, Wilson's swagger is the biggest tip-off that he'll succeed."
There have been plenty of players with swagger who have failed as freshmen...and plenty who have succeeded without it.
I sure hope that Du. Wilson does become a top point. But according to a number of people, the keys to the car are being given to De. Wilson. So how can this be?
Willie
Where did you hear De Wilson has given the keys? If true, I would say a serious mistake by Buzz.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 31, 2013, 01:31:41 PM
I sure hope that Du. Wilson does become a top point. But according to a number of people, the keys to the car are being given to De. Wilson. So how can this be?
See: Cordell Henry & Travis Deiner
Would not be shocked to see the same dynamic play out.
Would also not be shocked to see that same dynamic play out of Duane on O, Derrick on D like the Gardner/Otule dynamic.
Would also not be shocked to see Duane separate himself to the point where Buzz is forced to play him starter minutes towards the end of the season, regardless of whether or not he actually starts.
All speculation at this point.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 31, 2013, 01:31:41 PM
I sure hope that Du. Wilson does become a top point. But according to a number of people, the keys to the car are being given to De. Wilson.
No one has said that.
I love these articles, but we have to be careful not to set expectations too high for a freshman. I think we all set the bar too high for Vander and that created a lot of negativity when he was adjusting to playing against Big East competition. I hope he stars from day 1 but it's a big jump and you have to assume there will be a transition period.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 31, 2013, 01:12:08 PM
Strotty, I appreciate your optimism and really have no quarrels with it. But this line is cringe-worthy in a sports-cliches-I-hate kind of way:
"And maybe more important than anything he did at Dominican H.S. or the Hall of Famers he spoke with the last two offseasons, Wilson's swagger is the biggest tip-off that he'll succeed."
There have been plenty of players with swagger who have failed as freshmen...and plenty who have succeeded without it.
It's an opinion piece, get over it.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on May 31, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
It's an opinion piece, get over it.
My post is an opinion piece. Get over it.
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 31, 2013, 01:59:43 PM
I love these articles, but we have to be careful not to set expectations too high for a freshman. I think we all set the bar too high for Vander and that created a lot of negativity when he was adjusting to playing against Big East competition. I hope he stars from day 1 but it's a big jump and you have to assume there will be a transition period.
I get what you're saying, however, Vander's problem was that he had the requisite athleticism, but could not shoot or finish at the rim. He also had DJO & Buycks ahead of him at the position. Still, he got minutes right away because he had the athleticism to play in the BEast. Duane only has Derrick and Todd ahead of him at the 1/2, possesses great size and athleticism at the position, and can shoot lights out. If I had to put money on one of Buzz' freshmen that he has brought in to date producing at a high level (for a freshman) right away, it's Duane.
pretty hard to shock you eh? :)
Quote from: Jajuannaman on May 31, 2013, 01:42:15 PM
See: Cordell Henry & Travis Deiner
Would not be shocked to see the same dynamic play out.
Would also not be shocked to see that same dynamic play out of Duane on O, Derrick on D like the Gardner/Otule dynamic.
Would also not be shocked to see Duane separate himself to the point where Buzz is forced to play him starter minutes towards the end of the season, regardless of whether or not he actually starts.
All speculation at this point.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 31, 2013, 01:44:27 PM
No one has said that.
Actually, Buzz has said repeatedly that Derrick Wilson will start day 1. Nothing has been said that he would keep this job. But smart money is on Derrick having the starting job at the beginning of the season
What if Todd Mayo starts at PG next season?
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on May 31, 2013, 03:21:51 PM
Actually, Buzz has said repeatedly that Derrick Wilson will start day 1. Nothing has been said that he would keep this job. But smart money is on Derrick having the starting job at the beginning of the season
Starting for Buzz does not necessarily mean you're the #1 guy at your position.
Quote from: barfolomew on May 31, 2013, 04:10:05 PM
Starting for Buzz does not necessarily mean you're the #1 guy at your position.
Yep, see Reggie Smith...Erik Williams...Jamail Jones...Juan Anderson...
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 31, 2013, 04:04:07 PM
What if Todd Mayo starts at PG next season?
Doctor, I have the same thought for sometime. Mayo as all the attributes of a well rounded/talented point guard. The big IF, is whether he can integrate all his talent to become skilled and consistent.
As a further thought, Buzz has proven to be a very good read of talent and of putting together combinations of players. So, putting Mayo at the 1 and Anderson at the 2, I do not think is out of the realm of possibility.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 31, 2013, 04:04:07 PM
What if Todd Mayo starts at PG next season?
Then Buzz will grow hair-----------only later to pull it all out.
Quote from: Goose on May 31, 2013, 01:40:40 PM
Willie
Where did you hear De Wilson has given the keys? If true, I would say a serious mistake by Buzz.
You must have missed some of the posts on that subject over past few months. There are a number of people that believe he will be the starter. This is not meant to start a debate on minutes, etc. Never understood some of Buzz's starter decisions, i.e. Erik Williams, Reggie Smith, Juan Anderson, Chris Otule, not starting Crowder his Jr. year, etc. Doesn't make sense to start a guy who plays 3 to 6 minutes or so each half (Williams and Smith, Anderson at end of year) How did that work out with Williams and Smith?
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 31, 2013, 01:44:27 PM
No one has said that.
Oh yes they have. Go back and read some of those posts. Book it.
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on May 31, 2013, 03:21:51 PM
Actually, Buzz has said repeatedly that Derrick Wilson will start day 1. Nothing has been said that he would keep this job. But smart money is on Derrick having the starting job at the beginning of the season
Thank you. Please refer to this Skink.
Then you and I simply have different views of being given the keys to the car. Just simply starting the year isn't that IMO.
I think people have read too much into Buzz's comments last year about Derrick and Junior.
IMO what Buzz's meant was all things being equal if it's close he will give the nod to the more experienced guy.....Derrick isn't guaranteed anything other then a chance to compete for minutes.
He will get what he earns like everyone else.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 31, 2013, 06:09:43 PM
You must have missed some of the posts on that subject over past few months. There are a number of people that believe he will be the starter. This is not meant to start a debate on minutes, etc. Never understood some of Buzz's starter decisions, i.e. Erik Williams, Reggie Smith, Juan Anderson, Chris Otule, not starting Crowder his Jr. year, etc. Doesn't make sense to start a guy who plays 3 to 6 minutes or so each half (Williams and Smith, Anderson at end of year) How did that work out with Williams and Smith?
Well with Erik Williams it kept Jae out of foul trouble so he was able to finish games.
How did this work out with Otule and Anderson this last year? Anderson kept Jamil out of foul trouble and Jamil was able to provide offense off the bench and at the end of games. Otule was able to win most tips during the season (guaranteeing at least even if not one more possession than the other team) and allowed Davante to provide offense off the bench.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on May 31, 2013, 02:24:58 PM
It's an opinion piece, get over it.
+1,
These threads always boil down to:
Guy 1) I think _____ will be good.
Guy 2) I admit I have no idea, but am glad others are excited.
Guy 3) I'm going to Aggressively bash every post by insisting that rankings are a complete crapshoot and snickering at anyone who dares to be excited by a professional scouting report.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 31, 2013, 07:49:49 PM
Then you and I simply have different views of being given the keys to the car. Just simply starting the year isn't that IMO.
This. When you hand somebody the keys to the car it guarantees starting and big minutes through thick and thin (see DJ as a freshman). I think Derrick starts, at least early on, due to his experience, but no guarantees of minutes with Buzz at the helm.
Buzz just wants one of his guys to win 6th man award every year.
It's not as interesting to talk about as "55% 3-point shooting", but I think key to Duane getting a large amount of minutes will be not turning the ball over and defense.
I've seen the numbers that suggest he shot 55% 3FG and 63%+ 2FG for Dominican. He's not a high volume 3-point shooter, but man those look high. Let's accept them as accurate.
In the EYBL, he shot 33.7% 3FG and 45.7% 2FG.
3FGA/FGA as a senior in HS: 28.0%.
3FGA/FGA in EYBL: 34.7%
...so, think of 3FGA/FGA as similar but just a bit less than senior year Wesley Matthews (chains off, baby).
With a decent look & set shot, Duane is a very good 3-point shooter. Against some competition he can also get to the rim "easily". However, the concern is if he's taking contested 3-pointers and more 2-point jumpers as opposed to at the rim his %'s might not look so hot.
He'll be a good player.. have enjoyed watching him over the years. But, let's give him a little time. (Or if you want to crown him, then crown...)
Quote from: WarriorInDC on May 31, 2013, 08:32:42 PM
Well with Erik Williams it kept Jae out of foul trouble so he was able to finish games.
How did this work out with Otule and Anderson this last year? Anderson kept Jamil out of foul trouble and Jamil was able to provide offense off the bench and at the end of games. Otule was able to win most tips during the season (guaranteeing at least even if not one more possession than the other team) and allowed Davante to provide offense off the bench.
That is dumb philosophy--keeping Jae out of foul trouble. I do not buy that hogwash for a minute. And all it did is push Williams to transfer. And please don't come back that it was no loss as he is now out of basketball. That just proves the point that he did not deserve to start. Crowder was a stud--his Jr. year also and should have been starting. And starting a guy because he "usually" gets the tip is also a lame excuse. Alternate possession negates that
Some of these decisions leave one scratching their head or nether parts.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 31, 2013, 06:02:11 PM
Then Buzz will grow hair-----------only later to pull it all out.
Yeah, Mayo at PG with all those other guys makes tons of sense, especially since Mayo is about the most inconsistent player and one of the poor judgment guys with the ball on the team.
Here is the solution--start J. Williams or Gardner at Point--both would like to give it a try.
Quote from: willie warrior on May 31, 2013, 06:11:02 PM
Oh yes they have. Go back and read some of those posts. Book it.
unless i'm missing something...all that talk, including the posts in this thread that are now stating buzz has said de wilson will start, come from one statement when he said de wilson should be starting in front of junior. i haven't heard much else from buzz on the matter, but could surely see him de wilson for so many reasons...knowing very well that du wilson needs to be productive in the majority of the minutes for mu to be a final four contending team next year.
i can't get inside buzz' head, but i'd put money on that comment being motivational towards junior...nothing more. mu needed a consistent and hard working jc, and i don't think they got it every night (maybe not every day in practice either)...buzz likes to use his bench to teach lessons...he couldn't do that with jc because de wilson didn't have close to the same upside.
there is a ton of thought that needs to go into how to handle the de wilson/du wilson situation. i think it's a good situation for buzz...my guess is he can start de wilson, put that pressure on him, and du wilson can be free to play more or less minutes than de wilson with less blow-back if he starts out slow. i don't know that the situation d. james was put into in his freshman year was ideal for most, but it obviously was ideal for his skill set/personality. maybe buzz will feel the same about du wilson.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 31, 2013, 07:49:49 PM
Then you and I simply have different views of being given the keys to the car. Just simply starting the year isn't that IMO.
De gets the keys to start the car, back it out of the driveway and pump the gas. Du does all the driving. Daw stays in his car seat until we're up by 20.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
That is dumb philosophy--keeping Jae out of foul trouble. I do not buy that hogwash for a minute. And all it did is push Williams to transfer. And please don't come back that it was no loss as he is now out of basketball. That just proves the point that he did not deserve to start. Crowder was a stud--his Jr. year also and should have been starting. And starting a guy because he "usually" gets the tip is also a lame excuse. Alternate possession negates that
Some of these decisions leave one scratching their head or nether parts.
Buzz thought it helped. He thought starting Juan over Jamil was smart too. Last I checked he has been very successful using this strategy...and certainly more successful than you.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 01, 2013, 10:52:09 AM
Buzz thought it helped. He thought starting Juan over Jamil was smart too. Last I checked he has been very successful using this strategy...and certainly more successful than you.
Buzz also thought it would have helped to offer scholarships to Aaron Durley, Yous Mbao, and Brett Roseboro.
He's been successful, but he's hardly infalliable.
In general I think on a message board like this all of Buzz's decisions should be open to discussion without someone trying to stifle it with the intellectually weak argument of "he's been successful so every decision of his should be beyond question."
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 01, 2013, 11:59:06 AM
Buzz also thought it would have helped to offer scholarships to Aaron Durley, Yous Mbao, and Brett Roseboro.
He's been successful, but he's hardly infalliable.
In general I think on a message board like this all of Buzz's decisions should be open to discussion without someone trying to stifle it with the intellectually weak argument of "he's been successful so every decision of his should be beyond question."
Oh brother. I never said that Buzz was infallible, but seriously do you read willie's posts? At least I can acknowledge that I am not a college basketball coach.
But to satisfy you, I will try to break down his post.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
That is dumb philosophy--keeping Jae out of foul trouble. I do not buy that hogwash for a minute.
Well, I am not sure what "hogwash" willie isn't buying here. Buzz stated that was the case. Furthermore he does believe that having people coming off the bench is effective, and since Jae and Jamil seemed to excel in that role, it really is hard to question it.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
And all it did is push Williams to transfer.
No evidence for this assertion whatsoever.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
And please don't come back that it was no loss as he is now out of basketball. That just proves the point that he did not deserve to start.
This is another theme that willie and others have in their posts. That only the best players should start. Well that is generally an absurd argument. Jae was fourth on the team in minutes - second on the frontline only behind JFB. He got plenty of time.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
And starting a guy because he "usually" gets the tip is also a lame excuse.
Willie is mixing up "excuse" with "reason" again. (Hint for the uninformed...any reason that willie disagrees with is automatically labelled an "excuse." I think he needs to invest in a dictionary.)
This is obviously about Otule, who willie sees no value in as a player as evidenced by other posts. This is because willie, like others, really only believe that players can contribute offensively. Otule clearly is a very valuable defender and provides a dimension that Gardner doesn't have. Willie and his ilk don't see that however.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
Some of these decisions leave one scratching their head or nether parts.
Make sense to me.
So Equalizer, does that satisfy you intellectually?
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:57:30 AM
Yeah, Mayo at PG with all those other guys makes tons of sense, especially since Mayo is about the most inconsistent player and one of the poor judgment guys with the ball on the team.
Here is the solution--start J. Williams or Gardner at Point--both would like to give it a try.
J. Williams?
Quote from: frozena pizza on May 31, 2013, 01:59:43 PM
I love these articles, but we have to be careful not to set expectations too high for a freshman. I think we all set the bar too high for Vander and that created a lot of negativity when he was adjusting to playing against Big East competition. I hope he stars from day 1 but it's a big jump and you have to assume there will be a transition period.
Difference is that we have other recruits equally as high as DuW. If they all peak at Vanders level, no one will be complaining since we would be consistently in the Top 10. (Not to mention it isn't all on his shoulders.)
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 01, 2013, 12:26:19 PM
Oh brother. I never said that Buzz was infallible, but seriously do you read willie's posts? At least I can acknowledge that I am not a college basketball coach.
But to satisfy you, I will try to break down his post.
Well, I am not sure what "hogwash" willie isn't buying here. Buzz stated that was the case. Furthermore he does believe that having people coming off the bench is effective, and since Jae and Jamil seemed to excel in that role, it really is hard to question it.
No evidence for this assertion whatsoever.
This is another theme that willie and others have in their posts. That only the best players should start. Well that is generally an absurd argument. Jae was fourth on the team in minutes - second on the frontline only behind JFB. He got plenty of time.
Willie is mixing up "excuse" with "reason" again. (Hint for the uninformed...any reason that willie disagrees with is automatically labelled an "excuse." I think he needs to invest in a dictionary.)
This is obviously about Otule, who willie sees no value in as a player as evidenced by other posts. This is because willie, like others, really only believe that players can contribute offensively. Otule clearly is a very valuable defender and provides a dimension that Gardner doesn't have. Willie and his ilk don't see that however.
Make sense to me.
So Equalizer, does that satisfy you intellectually?
Its better than "Well it was Buzz's decision so he must be right." I think there's a couple of points still up for debate.
First, I agree with you on the point about setting a starting lineup optimized for winning the opening tip. However a better coutner to willie could have been "It gives us the potential for one more poession per game. Yes, you're right when there is an even number of poessions, things even out. But when there is an odd number, winning the tip gives us one extra posession over the other team. Given that we had x nummber of one-posession games last year, that small edge seems like a reasonable strategy."
Second, I think you still have a weak argument on the issue of players coming off the bench in general. On that point you argued: "Buzz stated that was the case. Furthermore he does believe that having people coming off the bench is effective, and since Jae and Jamil seemed to excel in that role, it really is hard to question it."
Well, the issue wasn't whether Buzz believes in his own approach--of course he's going to do what he thinks is best. The question is whether it really is the best approach.
Yes, Buzz was successful--the point up for debate is whether he was successful
because of that strategy, or
despite that strategy.
This is a potentially intersting discussion--it seems like a less common approach start a weaker player and to keep a better player on reserve. It imight be interesitng to look at the impacts in games--like MU's early lead against ND in the BET, only to see it lost. Or how Davidson's early lead against us impacted the game flow.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2013, 12:54:26 PM
J. Williams?
Sorry--got the Williams and Wilsons mixed up. We at least need a few more Wilson's on the team to even things out.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 01, 2013, 01:13:15 PM
Its better than "Well it was Buzz's decision so he must be right." I think there's a couple of points still up for debate.
First, I agree with you on the point about setting a starting lineup optimized for winning the opening tip. However a better coutner to willie could have been "It gives us the potential for one more poession per game. Yes, you're right when there is an even number of poessions, things even out. But when there is an odd number, winning the tip gives us one extra posession over the other team. Given that we had x nummber of one-posession games last year, that small edge seems like a reasonable strategy."
Second, I think you still have a weak argument on the issue of players coming off the bench in general. On that point you argued: "Buzz stated that was the case. Furthermore he does believe that having people coming off the bench is effective, and since Jae and Jamil seemed to excel in that role, it really is hard to question it."
Well, the issue wasn't whether Buzz believes in his own approach--of course he's going to do what he thinks is best. The question is whether it really is the best approach.
Yes, Buzz was successful--the point up for debate is whether he was successful because of that strategy, or despite that strategy.
This is a potentially intersting discussion--it seems like a less common approach start a weaker player and to keep a better player on reserve. It imight be interesitng to look at the impacts in games--like MU's early lead against ND in the BET, only to see it lost. Or how Davidson's early lead against us impacted the game flow.
Yeah, I bleieve that the best players at each position should start. And it is likely that 90% of the kids that are the best at their position on any team feel that way also. So saying that assertion is absurd does not make it so, Skink.
Hell, why don't we just start Thomas, Anderson, De. Wilson, Ferguson, and Otule to save fouls on the others and to win the tip. Did McGuire start Butrym every game to win the tip?
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 01:55:11 PM
Yeah, I bleieve that the best players at each position should start. And it is likely that 90% of the kids that are the best at their position on any team feel that way also. So saying that assertion is absurd does not make it so, Skink.
Hell, why don't we just start Thomas, Anderson, De. Wilson, Ferguson, and Otule to save fouls on the others and to win the tip. Did McGuire start Butrym every game to win the tip?
No, but he did start Bill Neary over Bernard Toone. And if you think Neary was the more talented ball player I have a bridge for sale...
If you remember Crowder's junior season he started out as a reserve and then worked his way to be a starter by the start of conference play. Then because he kept getting early fouls Buzz began starting Erik Williams.
He in all likelihood wanted Crowder to start but he couldn't get him to stop making silly early fouls so he made the change.
So in reality Crowder made the decision for Buzz.
MU couldn't afford to have Crowder in early foul trouble every game and Crowder couldn't stop committing early fouls as a starter.....Buzz did the only thing he could.....He brought Crowder off the bench.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2013, 12:54:26 PM
J. Williams?
That's the dude who played guard for Duke and de-flowered that reporter, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 01, 2013, 02:15:12 PM
That's the dude who played guard for Duke and de-flowered that reporter, hey?
He was a few years too late for any de-flowering as that blossom had been plucked by another gardener some time before. I believe one could more accurately characterize the encounter as ravaging, soiling, or defiling.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 01:55:11 PM
And it is likely that 90% of the kids that are the best at their position on any team feel that way also. So saying that assertion is absurd does not make it so, Skink.
Did you hear any complaints from Jae or Jamil????
Didn't think so.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 01:55:11 PM
Hell, why don't we just start Thomas, Anderson, De. Wilson, Ferguson, and Otule to save fouls on the others and to win the tip.
Yay!!! Hyperbole!!!
Quote from: Goose on May 31, 2013, 01:40:40 PM
Willie
Where did you hear De Wilson has given the keys? If true, I would say a serious mistake by Buzz.
Buzz don't make mistakes with his teams because he knows better than anyone. You better this during the season. I learned the hard way!
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 01:55:11 PM
Yeah, I bleieve that the best players at each position should start. And it is likely that 90% of the kids that are the best at their position on any team feel that way also. So saying that assertion is absurd does not make it so, Skink.
Hell, why don't we just start Thomas, Anderson, De. Wilson, Ferguson, and Otule to save fouls on the others and to win the tip. Did McGuire start Butrym every game to win the tip?
So in your book Red Auerbach was a moron when he won all those NBA championships with John Havlichek coming off the bench.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 01:55:11 PM
Yeah, I bleieve that the best players at each position should start. And it is likely that 90% of the kids that are the best at their position on any team feel that way also. So saying that assertion is absurd does not make it so, Skink.
Hell, why don't we just start Thomas, Anderson, De. Wilson, Ferguson, and Otule to save fouls on the others and to win the tip. Did McGuire start Butrym every game to win the tip?
in my opinion this shows a lack of understanding...it's like saying because 95% of teams don't sit in a zone like Cuse does Boehiem is wrong. buzz has shown an amazing ability to coach teams differently depending on their strengths. so while he certainly makes mistakes, i think we see him acknowledge and fix those mistakes. he seemed very confident with his line-up, and didn't seem to feel the need to change it. it resulted in a solid NCAA run and a BEAST championship...while you may feel "90% of the kids that are best at their position feel they should start"...one could argue that greater than 90% of the coaches in college bball wish they had the success buzz had last year.
Quote from: avid1010 on June 01, 2013, 03:45:53 PM
in my opinion this shows a lack of understanding...it's like saying because 95% of teams don't sit in a zone like Cuse does Boehiem is wrong. buzz has shown an amazing ability to coach teams differently depending on their strengths. so while he certainly makes mistakes, i think we see him acknowledge and fix those mistakes. he seemed very confident with his line-up, and didn't seem to feel the need to change it. it resulted in a solid NCAA run and a BEAST championship...while you may feel "90% of the kids that are best at their position feel they should start"...one could argue that greater than 90% of the coaches in college bball wish they had the success buzz had last year.
Sorry I forgot: IN Buzz we trust. Translation: He makes no mistakes.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2013, 03:39:07 PM
So in your book Red Auerbach was a moron when he won all those NBA championships with John Havlichek coming off the bench.
Gee, thank you Lenny for coming up with an exception. How about Harden at OKC and Ginobli at San Antonio. As I am sure you are aware, the pro game is a different animal, and by the way, Havlicek (get the spelling correct) started plenty of games also. You simply troll to criticize, Lenny. Never said Buzz or Auerbach were morons--you just did on Auerbach. Opinions are like elbows, most people have them.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 05:26:00 PM
Gee, thank you Lenny for coming up with an exception. How about Harden at OKC and Ginobli at San Antonio. As I am sure you are aware, the pro game is a different animal, and by the way, Havlicek (get the spelling correct) started plenty of games also. You simply troll to criticize, Lenny. Never said Buzz or Auerbach were morons--you just did on Auerbach. Opinions are like elbows, most people have them.
You said that you "believe the best players should start". Obviously lots of pretty good coaches (Auerbach, McGuire, Popovich, Buzz, etc) disagree.
As far as trolling to criticize, don't make me laugh. Criticizing our players and coaching staff is about all you do.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 05:19:35 PM
Sorry I forgot: IN Buzz we trust. Translation: He makes no mistakes. i'm wrong so i'm going to play this card every time i stick my foot in my mouth
fixed.
i gave him the benefit of acknowledging and trying to fix his mistakes...but to your point, if you think you know more about the line-up buzz should have used than he does...it's a very safe bet that you're wrong.
buzz makes plenty of mistakes, i'm not sure i know what they are, but i'd find it difficult to believe he makes them over and over again and is successful as he is. amazing he has been so successful when he can't even get his starting line-up right for the entire season.
you can argue situational aspects of the game, and i can understand the criticism (should have fouled up 3 at the end of the game, etc...), but neither you or i come close to having the knowledge we need to judge if he used the right line-up this year. when that's the case, i look at the results to guide my judgement, and his results were solid.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 05:26:00 PM
Opinions are like elbows, most people have them.
If you use a$$hole as the metaphor rather than elbow you can further the analogy with, "and they all stink..."
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2013, 05:50:51 PM
You said that you "believe the best players should start". Obviously lots of pretty good coaches (Auerbach, McGuire, Popovich, Buzz, etc) disagree.
As far as trolling to criticize, don't make me laugh. Criticizing our players and coaching staff is about all you do.
Let's not forget Red Holtzman and Phil Jackson, Chuck Daly and Dennis Rodman and Phil Jackson and Toni Kukoc.
Even if Buzz starts Derrick out of loyalty, experience or some other factor, I hope that Duane establishes himself as our next great PG because it will mean so much to the team -- next season and beyond.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2013, 05:50:51 PM
You said that you "believe the best players should start". Obviously lots of pretty good coaches (Auerbach, McGuire, Popovich, Buzz, etc) disagree.
As far as trolling to criticize, don't make me laugh. Criticizing our players and coaching staff is about all you do.
Sorry Lenny--you have no clue about "all I do". I have criticized Buzz on occasion, but overall he is doiing fine. Judging from your often criticizing other posts, perhaps if the shoe fits...And yes, I still believe that the best players at their postion should start, so why do you worry about my opinion.
Quote from: Terror Skink on May 31, 2013, 01:12:08 PM
Strotty, I appreciate your optimism and really have no quarrels with it. But this line is cringe-worthy in a sports-cliches-I-hate kind of way:
"And maybe more important than anything he did at Dominican H.S. or the Hall of Famers he spoke with the last two offseasons, Wilson's swagger is the biggest tip-off that he'll succeed."
There have been plenty of players with swagger who have failed as freshmen...and plenty who have succeeded without it.
While I agree with this I would say the most egregious overstatement is, "He's as ready a freshman point guard as Marquette has had, maybe ever."
I realize Mr. Strotman is young but that does not excuse journalistic irresponsibility. To suggest our new recruit is even remotely close to Dean Meminger is fatuous. Meminger not playing varsity as a freshman was due to NCAA regulation; The Dream was likely the most skilled freshman point to arrive on the Marquette campus. (The most talented point was probably Sam Worthen who came from McLennan CC. I am still dismayed how he and Oliver Lee squandered so much talent and promise in pursuit of other illicit recreational activities.)
I am excited that Duane Wilson will be lacing them up for Marquette but he must realize those same shoes were once worn by Meminger, Walton, Boylan, McGuire, Washington, Rivers, Worthen, Miller, Johnson, Diener, et al.... I trust he recognizes the enormity of obligation to that tradition. I am excited to have him join the community and am hopeful he will realize the promise he has demonstrated thus far.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 01, 2013, 06:53:32 AM
That is dumb philosophy--keeping Jae out of foul trouble. I do not buy that hogwash for a minute. And all it did is push Williams to transfer. And please don't come back that it was no loss as he is now out of basketball. That just proves the point that he did not deserve to start. Crowder was a stud--his Jr. year also and should have been starting. And starting a guy because he "usually" gets the tip is also a lame excuse. Alternate possession negates that
Some of these decisions leave one scratching their head or nether parts.
OK, as I brought up and another poster touched on, if there are an odd number of possessions, winning the tip gives MU an additional possession. With the number of games that have come down to one final possession, this is a huge deal. Otule won the tip in our tourney game against Davidson and we finished the game with the ball (one extra possession than Davidson). Had Otule not won the tip, do we win that game?
And who do you think should have started over Otule? You've said in another thread that Gardner isnt a quality big.
I think Derrick will start. He very solid. Doesn't turn the ball over. Plays good D. Won't get overwhelmed on the road. He's a tough kid.
Duane will come in at some point. If he plays well, he'll get he's fair share of minutes. If he's "off" in a particular game, or it's not a good match-up, we'll probably see more of Derrick.
It will be very similar to Otule/Gardner (in my mind). A nice combo to have, especially if Duane is a good shooter. Provides MU some punch off the bench to change up the game.
MU's second unit could be pretty damn good:
Gardner
Wilson (one of them)
JJJ or Mayo
Burton
Quote from: keefe on June 02, 2013, 05:03:49 PM
While I agree with this I would say the most egregious overstatement is, "He's as ready a freshman point guard as Marquette has had, maybe ever."
I realize Mr. Strotman is young but that does not excuse journalistic irresponsibility. To suggest our new recruit is even remotely close to Dean Meminger is fatuous. Meminger not playing varsity as a freshman was due to NCAA regulation; The Dream was likely the most skilled freshman point to arrive on the Marquette campus. (The most talented point was probably Sam Worthen who came from McLennan CC. I am still dismayed how he and Oliver Lee squandered so much talent and promise in pursuit of other illicit recreational activities.)
I am excited that Duane Wilson will be lacing them up for Marquette but he must realize those same shoes were once worn by Meminger, Walton, Boylan, McGuire, Washington, Rivers, Worthen, Miller, Johnson, Diener, et al.... I trust he recognizes the enormity of obligation to that tradition. I am excited to have him join the community and am hopeful he will realize the promise he has demonstrated thus far.
I agree with you Keefe. Dean Meminger and Doc Rivers were both rated the #1 point in the country coming out of high school. I watched the Dream score 40+ in leading the Marquette freshmen over Austin Carr, Sid Catlett, Collis Jones and their Notre Dame teammates. He would have played 35 minutes per game on the varsity if eligible. Doc's career had a few more bumps than Meminger's, but he was no doubt the best player at MU from the moment he set foot on campus.
Nothing against Duane Wilson, but those are incredibly large shoes to fill. If Strotty is right, we're a top 5 team next year and every year until Duane leaves (early), and the recruiting services have him grossly underrated. Here's hoping.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2013, 10:37:27 AM
I agree with you Keefe. Dean Meminger and Doc Rivers were both rated the #1 point in the country coming out of high school. I watched the Dream score 40+ in leading the Marquette freshmen over Austin Carr, Sid Catlett, Collis Jones and their Notre Dame teammates. He would have played 35 minutes per game on the varsity if eligible. Doc's career had a few more bumps than Meminger's, but he was no doubt the best player at MU from the moment he set foot on campus.
Nothing against Duane Wilson, but those are incredibly large shoes to fill. If Strotty is right, we're a top 5 team next year and every year until Duane leaves (early), and the recruiting services have him grossly underrated. Here's hoping.
And before people start jumping on us for allegedly slamming Duane Wilson one should consider that any comparison with The Dream or Doc is in fact a compliment.
SI ran an article in November 2000 that surveyed the great Point Guards to come out of NYC's playgrounds. This included Dean Meminger and Sam Worthen.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1021135/1/index.htm
There is a great photo in SI of Worthen and Meminger on a Manhattan rooftop along with Shaheen Holloway (SETON HALL, 2000,) Rod Strickland (DEPAUL, 1988,) Dwayne (Pearl) Washington (SYRACUSE, 1988,) Taliek Brown (UCONN, 2004,) Jamaal Tinsley (IOWA STATE, 2001,) Kenny Smith (NORTH CAROLINA, 1987,) Andre Barrett (SETON HALL, 2004,) Majestic Mapp (UVA, 2003,) Derrick Phelps (NORTH CAROLINA, 1994,) Omar Cook (ST. JOHN'S, 2004,) Nate (Tiny) Archibald (UTEP, 1970,) Tommy Kearns (NORTH CAROLINA, 1958,) and Kenny Anderson (GEORGIA TECH, 1993.)
Quote from: WarriorInDC on June 03, 2013, 08:48:27 AM
OK, as I brought up and another poster touched on, if there are an odd number of possessions, winning the tip gives MU an additional possession. With the number of games that have come down to one final possession, this is a huge deal. Otule won the tip in our tourney game against Davidson and we finished the game with the ball (one extra possession than Davidson). Had Otule not won the tip, do we win that game?
And who do you think should have started over Otule? You've said in another thread that Gardner isnt a quality big.
I said I did not know if Gardner is considered a quality big, because he certainly was not considered that out of HS, and it appears that Buzz does not think so either or he would be playing more than 20 minutes. I wonder how many people on this board believe that Gardner is a quality big. I have stated previously that the best starting line up would have Otule in with Gardner at PF. McKay could back up either, and Taylor could also back up at PF. In order to clarify. Gardner has developed into a quality big, even though I do not believe that he has been utilized to the best of his talents by Buzz. If McKay proves he can play at this level, then he will be getting 25 plus minutes a game. If McKay proves big time, then you could easily split up the 80 minutes at Center and PF with a breakdown along the lines of: McKay: 25 MPG, Gardner: 25 MPG, Otule 15 to 18 MPG and Taylor the balance.
Now watch all the criticism that Otule, after 6 years deserves more minutes.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 03, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
I said I did not know if Gardner is considered a quality big, because he certainly was not considered that out of HS, and it appears that Buzz does not think so either or he would be playing more than 20 minutes. I wonder how many people on this board believe that Gardner is a quality big. I have stated previously that the best starting line up would have Otule in with Gardner at PF.
1. Why do you care, four years later, what his reputation was coming out of high school? Completely irrelevant.
2. I believe he is a quality big. So does USA basketball who just invited him to the World University Games training camp.
http://www.gocreighton.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1000&ATCLID=208052160
3. The reasons for the minutes breakdown is well documented. No need to re-hash it here, but if you simply don't believe the reasons then fine.
4. If Gardner plays PF...who does he guard?
Both Meminger and Worthen ranked by SI among greatest NYC PGs ever
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1021136/1/index.htm
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 03, 2013, 10:37:27 AM
he was no doubt the best player at MU from the moment he set foot on campus.
Now hold on Bernstein! Doc Rivers shared the hardwood with a certain Terrell Schlundt.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 03, 2013, 12:25:01 PM
1. Why do you care, four years later, what his reputation was coming out of high school? Completely irrelevant.
2. I believe he is a quality big. So does USA basketball who just invited him to the World University Games training camp.
http://www.gocreighton.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=1000&ATCLID=208052160
3. The reasons for the minutes breakdown is well documented. No need to re-hash it here, but if you simply don't believe the reasons then fine.
4. If Gardner plays PF...who does he guard?
In answer to your number 4, whoever the matchups dictate, per Buzz's instructions. Is gardner a great defensive player--probably not. But how many guys are? Otule would have matchup problems with some teams also. Your question implies that Gardner cannot guard a PF. Can Otule guard a mobile Center? depends on the matchups. I remeber the problems we had when Hayward had to guard a number of post players. I believe that Otule could well play PF at this level.
By the way, I believe that Gardner is a quality big--he probably would not be rated top 5 in the country, but he has proven himself. I was in Gardner's camp from day one, unlike many who thought he was reach. Go back and read some of the posts from back then.