MUScoop

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9304217/buzz-williams-marquette-adjust-new-big-east-changing-college-basketball

Buzz is on the NCAABB front page.

Also Myron Medcalf on MU/Gardner

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/84865/marquette-key-returnee-davante-gardner

and Seth Greenberg/Adam Finkelstein on MU freshman

http://insider.espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9301940/examining-impact-marquette-golden-eagles-freshmen-2013-14-season-college-basketball

and ugh, Dwyane Wade effect of new Indiana graduates fro Tom Crean by Andy KAtz

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/9304277/victor-oladipo-cody-zeller-indiana-dwyane-wade-was-marquette-college-basketball

So Greenberg still doesn't get that Otule is coming back???

Good articles, the IU one is dumb, you could say that about any good player from any college, not specific to crean. 

Take off the blinders, and the IU/MU parallel is accurate. They haven't had any "stars" lately at IU that can translate back to current/future players.

Now, having a conversation on the Wade-effect and whether it still carries half as much value as it once did? That's an entirely different conversation altogether.

The one thing that article cemented in my mind is that....Wade was/is/will-always-be big for MU. He definitely elevated the team to a level it hadn't seen in eons. It allowed the entire program to make a huge move up (Big East). Now, as what naturally occurs, Wade's affect drops off over time. But what Buzz has done is to build an entirely new building-block to create from. Almost a separate foundation.

Yes, there's Wade and he's still a well-known superstar. But, now you have the non-five-star recruits who played four years and got better and ended up a) getting drafted/making teams, and b) making immediate contributions. Buzz has shown he can coach guys up. And when you mix that in with the "superstar" effect, it helps MU get BOTH kinds of players....the five-star guy, and the three/four-star guy that fits the system and if given four years under Buzz could become an NBA player.

So...it's not a dumb article. It's relevent given where IU is currently.

Fine, not dumb, lazy

Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on May 23, 2013, 12:29:04 PM


The one thing that article cemented in my mind is that....Wade was/is/will-always-be big for MU. He definitely elevated the team to a level it hadn't seen in eons. It allowed the entire program to make a huge move up (Big East). Now, as what naturally occurs, Wade's affect drops off over time. But what Buzz has done is to build an entirely new building-block to create from. Almost a separate foundation.

Yup....2003....that's when the brand of MU basketball with the Final Four and Wade was birthed.  To this day, Wade still has a huge impact and MU leverages it as much as they can.  By far the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 years.   Bar none!

Chico's

Wade was awfully big and no doubt greatest player in school history. Disgaree on level of impact to some degree. If TC woud have capitalized on '03 Wade's impact would be bigger IMO. I believe Buzz's success has created a new, fresher brand and think his vale now matches that of Wade's. We are now a school where kids go to get ready for NBA and a lot has to do with both Wade and Buzz.

Seth: The culture at Marquette is winning basketball. You can't take that for granted. We're so used to the Golden Eagles losing key guys and then plugging new ones back in the next season, but that isn't easy. It's not by accident they reload every season; it's a process.

Vander Blue, who always had the ball in his hands at the end of games, is difficult to replace. Guys like Junior Cadougan, Trent Lockett and Chris Otule, who did a little bit of everything and made winning plays, are difficult to replace.

So we can talk all we want -- and we will -- about this incoming class, and there's no question that they're a good group of freshmen. But not only are they going to have to rely heavily on these freshmen, they'll also need some of their returning players to step up. They'll play in a new conference next season -- what should be an easier league -- but they'll need someone to emerge as a go-to scorer. Guys like Davante Gardner and Jamil Wilson are the top candidates to do so, but I would not be surprised to see Steve Taylor Jr. become an impact player.

Adam: You're right, Seth, they definitely have a couple of key players to replace, and that won't be easy. As far as the freshmen are concerned, I really like this group. It's as deep a class as Marquette has had in Buzz Williams' tenure.

It's interesting watching Williams evolve on the recruiting trail, because in some ways he's becoming more of a brand himself. He's become much more well-known in recent seasons, even among recruits, and players really want to play for him. That's reflected in this five-player class, which includes three in the top 100 of ESPN's rankings.

So from a pure talent standpoint, the guys they've got coming in have the potential to right away help fill the voids left by Blue, Cadougan and others.


Offense
Projected Starting Lineup
Pos.   Player   Year
G
Duane Wilson
Fr.
G
Todd Mayo
Jr.
F
Davante Gardner
Sr.
F
Jamil Wilson
Sr.
F
Steve Taylor
Soph.
Seth: Before we get to what the freshmen can offer, let's look at the key returning players. Gardner has the chance to be an elite frontcourt player if he can stay on the floor. (He averaged only 21.5 minutes per game last season.) Todd Mayo is also a guy to keep an eye on. Can he fill the void left by Blue at the shooting guard spot?

But the player I think they really need to step up is Wilson. I think they'll have to play through him on offense. He averaged only 9.7 points per game last season but he had a stretch near the end when he was really doing a good job of scoring. In the eight games leading up to Marquette's Elite Eight loss to Syracuse, Wilson scored in double figures every time. He is the next in Marquette's long line of undersized, hybrid forwards, after players like Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder.

I think Taylor could have a breakout season. He didn't play a ton of minutes as a freshman, but he's invested in that program, and I think Williams will likely want to start him over starting two freshmen. He has a ton of potential.

The biggest question mark on this team is at the point guard position. Junior Derrick Wilson will battle freshman Duane Wilson for the starting job, but I think Duane will ultimately get the nod. He is an athletic, explosive scoring point guard whose biggest challenge will be learning how to run a team. Derrick is more like Cadougan physically -- he's a strong player -- and might be the steadier option, but I'm just not sure how good he is. Overall, will this team improve its shooting enough? And who will be the guy who gets the ball at the end of games? Blue was that guy from last season, as we saw in the NCAA tournament against Davidson. Will Duane Wilson be it? Jamil Wilson? Mayo? We'll have to wait to find out.

• Enlarge
  Andy Lyons/Getty Images
  Buzz Williams' incoming freshman class is arguably his best ever.
  Adam: I agree that Duane Wilson will compete for the second guard spot. But what's interesting is that while Marquette is short on pure point guards, Duane really isn't one, either. He's more of a scorer and playmaker than a facilitator, and he's big enough to play off the ball in some lineups. I think fans are going to really enjoy watching him play because he is dynamic and exciting in the open floor and loves to create tempo. He excels in pushing the ball up the floor and getting to the rim or throwing lobs for teammates. In the half-court game, he's quick enough to get by his man or pull up for a jump shot.
  
  The fact that Duane isn't a pure point opens up an opportunity for John Dawson, the fourth-ranked freshman recruit in this Marquette class. If he carves out a role for himself as the guy who takes care of the basketball and distributes to his teammates, I could see him playing some minutes early. Otherwise he might be the fifth guard in a four-guard rotation.
  
  The most talented player in this class is JaJuan Johnson. We've got him listed as the No. 3 shooting guard, but he's big enough to play the small forward position as well. I think he'll have an impact right away, but his best basketball is ahead of him. He can be a marquee guy in college basketball because of his size, length, athleticism and versatile offensive game. He'll be a matchup problem for opponents, especially if he can add a midrange game to his already deep offensive arsenal. The biggest parts of his development will just be getting physically and mentally stronger in order to be able to play through contact. But he'll get that playing for Williams at Marquette.
  
  Freshman Deonte Burton, another ESPN 100 prospect, will have a chance to play early and maybe even start over Taylor. Burton is interesting because of his versatility -- he absorbs contact well, is strong and very athletic, and plays a lot bigger than his size. He's not a great natural shooter, but he's great in transition and a great rebounder when he wants to be. He and Johnson will be really nice complements down the road.
  
  The fifth prospect in this class, Jameel McKay, is a junior college transfer who gives the Golden Eagles some frontcourt depth. He'll have a chance to play this season.
  
  Defense
  Seth: This group will have to develop an edge defensively. That's what you think of when you think of Marquette basketball, so that's a key for the Golden Eagles again this season. But the thing with playing this many freshmen is that while they're athletic, they have younger bodies. The only one who's really big and physical is Burton, who is strong enough to play the 3 or the 4. The rest are longer and quicker.
  
  That's why I think we'll see the Golden Eagles getting out in passing lanes more this season. They forced only 12 turnovers a game last season, choosing to pack it in more and grind out possessions defensively, but I think we'll see them going for more steals and contesting shots, taking advantage of the athleticism and length of guys like McKay, Johnson and Burton.
  
  I can see that being a good thing, because given some of the uncertainty for them on the offensive end, they'll need to create offense out of their defense.
  
  Adam: I agree on Burton -- he has an opportunity to be an outstanding defender. I'm not sure if he's really been a committed defender up to this point in his basketball career, but that's the end of the floor where he probably has the most potential. He can guard three different positions.
  
  One thing to keep an eye on is how the starting point guard fares in keeping opposing guards out of the lane. That's a key in Williams' defensive system. If either of the freshmen, Duane Wilson or Dawson, is going to play major minutes at the point, that defensive role is one he'll have to embrace.
  
  Bottom line
  Seth: I think what Williams has done with this program is incredible. But a lot of times when a team gets on a roll, we start to take things for granted. There's a very fine line between winning and losing in college basketball. If Blue -- whom the coaching staff likely expected to come back -- had decided to return to school, we might be talking about a second-weekend NCAA tournament team. But he decided to leave for the draft, and now I think the Golden Eagles will have a tough time advancing past the opening round. That's the toughest thing about coaching in today's game.
  
  I think that Williams is capable of willing this team to an NCAA tournament berth. With too many question marks in that backcourt, from Mayo to Johnson to Duane Wilson, there's too much uncertainty (especially in late-game, short-clock situations) to project them any better than that.
  
  Adam: My best guess? I think this will be a pretty good team. And for a team that's losing as much as it is, that's pretty impressive. I believe this recruiting class is good enough to have Marquette in contention to be a Top 25 team this season.

So they don't know Otule is back, they don't hardly mention McKay, and Greenberg thinks MU will be a one and done in the tourney. The Finkelstein character at least knows that we'll be a top 25 team. I do like the love for Steve; hopefully his knee operation won't hold him back.

How can you not know that the starting center on an Elite 8 would at least petition for a 6th year?  ZERO effort.  Total cut & paste job.

I thought they did have good points on the freshmen though.  1st round tourney team is way on the low end of expectations though, I mean I wouldn't be surprised to loose a first round game at all (we almost did this year), but the team looks pretty good.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 23, 2013, 12:49:02 PM
To this day, Wade still has a huge impact and MU leverages it as much as they can.  By far the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 years.   Bar none!

Post DWade, Crean made the NCAAs 3 times in 5 tries at MU and won a grand total of 1 tournament game. Buzz is 5 for 5 with 8 tournament wins. Guess as more time passes, his skills diminish and he sports the IU gear the more he impacts Marquette. LOL

Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on May 23, 2013, 01:17:56 PM
So they don't know Otule is back, they don't hardly mention McKay, and Greenberg thinks MU will be a one and done in the tourney. The Finkelstein character at least knows that we'll be a top 25 team. I do like the love for Steve; hopefully his knee operation won't hold him back.

These 'experts' said the same thing about Marquette this season, at the end of last season. Who cares what they think at this point.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
Post DWade, Crean made the NCAAs 3 times in 5 tries at MU and won a grand total of 1 tournament game. Buzz is 5 for 5 with 8 tournament wins. Guess as more time passes, his skills diminish and he sports the IU gear the more he impacts Marquette. LOL

Don't forget he took us to the NIT in March 2005. And we thought the shame of the loss to KU was the nadir. How very wrong we were.

The horror...the horror...

(http://tobinelliott.com/userfiles/Tobin2013/1361823788_The_Horror.jpg)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNUr__-VZeQ

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
Post DWade, Crean made the NCAAs 3 times in 5 tries at MU and won a grand total of 1 tournament game. Buzz is 5 for 5 with 8 tournament wins. Guess as more time passes, his skills diminish and he sports the IU gear the more he impacts Marquette. LOL

And Buzz did the game prep as an assistant in that one Crean win

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
Post DWade, Crean made the NCAAs 3 times in 5 tries at MU and won a grand total of 1 tournament game. Buzz is 5 for 5 with 8 tournament wins. Guess as more time passes, his skills diminish and he sports the IU gear the more he impacts Marquette. LOL

Chicos head is going to explode being confronted with these facts that go against the almighty Crean. 

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
Post DWade, Crean made the NCAAs 3 times in 5 tries at MU and won a grand total of 1 tournament game. Buzz is 5 for 5 with 8 tournament wins. Guess as more time passes, his skills diminish and he sports the IU gear the more he impacts Marquette. LOL

NIT 2 straight years with two future NBA players on the team.   I liked Crean, but there is no way to pretend that 03-08 was anywhere close to 08-13

Not sure how it is not obvious that 08-13 DOES NOT HAPPEN, without 03.  No matter what happened from 04-08.

Quote from: Carl Spackler on May 24, 2013, 12:40:57 PM
Not sure how it is not obvious that 08-13 DOES NOT HAPPEN, without 03.  No matter what happened from 04-08.

Because Crean's a douche, that's why.

Quote from: Carl Spackler on May 24, 2013, 12:40:57 PM
Not sure how it is not obvious that 08-13 DOES NOT HAPPEN, without 03.  No matter what happened from 04-08.

Now that is a superb example of obtuse logic! Were you trained by the Jesuits or are you simply Jesuitical? Me thinks the latter, actually.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 23, 2013, 03:32:34 PM
Post DWade, Crean made the NCAAs 3 times in 5 tries at MU and won a grand total of 1 tournament game. Buzz is 5 for 5 with 8 tournament wins. Guess as more time passes, his skills diminish and he sports the IU gear the more he impacts Marquette. LOL

Yup...he's done great...of course he isn't here without '03 or without Crean...he's coaching somewhere else not named MU.  How many of our players that we have landed in the last 10 years have mentioned Dwade as one of the reasons for coming to MU?  80%? 

Bar None, the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 if not 30 years was Wade and the Final Four.  Period.  Without that event, unlikely the events that follow are at the same level.  Certainly, Brent Williams isn't at MU.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 04:31:55 PM
Yup...he's done great...of course he isn't here without '03 or without Crean...he's coaching somewhere else not named MU.  How many of our players that we have landed in the last 10 years have mentioned Dwade as one of the reasons for coming to MU?  80%? 

Bar None, the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 if not 30 years was Wade and the Final Four.  Period.  Without that event, unlikely the events that follow are at the same level.  Certainly, Brent Williams isn't at MU.

True, one cannot deny history.  But, Buzz certainly has capitalized on history and his resultant opportunity.  Glad we had TC and have Buzz.  Let's go Warriors...!

There are seminal moments for many programs, turning point moments.  Some are subtle like a hire (Coach K. at Duke), some are based on an epic moment or moments that people of all walks remember (Laetner shot, Valvano running around, USA beating Russia, Gibson home run).

For MU, that seminal moment used to be Al McGuire crying on the sidelines as we won the championship along with sustained top 10 teams over the long haul in an era where only 5 to 10 teams were dominant (MU, UCLA, IU, UK, UNC, NC State, UL, Syracuse, Penn).  That was a long time ago, and in an era when there were only 3 networks, no ESPN, no internet, etc.  We are fortunate enough to have been able to get to the well a second time and have another major seminal moment for the program with a player that continues to perform with a MU attachment.  It's going to be a bummer when Wade retires, need to ride that horse as long as we can.


Incidentally, to put things in perspective, folks may not know but we have only finished in the top 20 one time in a decade for winning percentage in our history...the decade of the 1970's.  Even the current decade, we are not in the top 20.

Give credit where credit is due: Crean recruited a heckuva class after class, found a diamond in the rough in Wade, and almost got to the promised land (Final Four).

But he needs to be equally criticized. With Wade's success, the only highlight was the Three Amigos.

Look at this bevy of quality recruits (outside of the Three Amigos):
Brandon Bell/DMason/Kinsella
Barro/Amoroso/Berkowitz
Burke/(Three Amigos)
Lazar/Cubillan

Seriously, look at those first two classes. Disgusting.
And to boot, guys like Trend,Kinsella,Lott were kept on the team.
At least, Buzz would give an honest appraisal to his players to let them know if there was playing time in the future for them. Balance and quality players (especially not those last three) are important to a successful team. Crean didn't do that; Buzz is and it shows with his record.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 04:31:55 PM
Yup...he's done great...of course he isn't here without '03 or without Crean...he's coaching somewhere else not named MU.  How many of our players that we have landed in the last 10 years have mentioned Dwade as one of the reasons for coming to MU?  80%? 

Bar None, the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 if not 30 years was Wade and the Final Four.  Period.  Without that event, unlikely the events that follow are at the same level.  Certainly, Brent Williams isn't at MU.

In the last four years, maybe 2.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 04:31:55 PM
Yup...he's done great...of course he isn't here without '03 or without Crean...he's coaching somewhere else not named MU.  How many of our players that we have landed in the last 10 years have mentioned Dwade as one of the reasons for coming to MU?  80%? 

Bar None, the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 if not 30 years was Wade and the Final Four.  Period.  Without that event, unlikely the events that follow are at the same level.  Certainly, Brent Williams isn't at MU.

Because history is a journey that continues to be written I would say the single most important event of Marquette hoops in the past 30 years was the day Tanned Tommy left for Bloomington. Buzz Williams is the legacy of that moment and he has only just begun to write his apologue.   

Quote from: strotty on May 28, 2013, 06:28:27 PM
In the last four years, maybe 2.

Must have been 150% of the guys in the previous 6 years. LOL.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 28, 2013, 08:08:26 PM
Must have been 150% of the guys in the previous 6 years. LOL.

Is that with or without Manchild Matthews?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 04:31:55 PM
Yup...he's done great...of course he isn't here without '03 or without Crean...he's coaching somewhere else not named MU.  How many of our players that we have landed in the last 10 years have mentioned Dwade as one of the reasons for coming to MU?  80%? 

Bar None, the single most important thing to happen to MU basketball in the last 20 if not 30 years was Wade and the Final Four.  Period.  Without that event, unlikely the events that follow are at the same level.  Certainly, Brent Williams isn't at MU.

(http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/cartoonists/hamlet-duplex-mankoff.jpg)

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 06:06:34 PM
There are seminal moments for many programs, turning point moments.  Some are subtle like a hire (Coach K. at Duke), some are based on an epic moment or moments that people of all walks remember (Laetner shot, Valvano running around, USA beating Russia, Gibson home run).

For MU, that seminal moment used to be Al McGuire crying on the sidelines as we won the championship along with sustained top 10 teams over the long haul in an era where only 5 to 10 teams were dominant (MU, UCLA, IU, UK, UNC, NC State, UL, Syracuse, Penn).  That was a long time ago, and in an era when there were only 3 networks, no ESPN, no internet, etc.  We are fortunate enough to have been able to get to the well a second time and have another major seminal moment for the program with a player that continues to perform with a MU attachment.  It's going to be a bummer when Wade retires, need to ride that horse as long as we can.


Incidentally, to put things in perspective, folks may not know but we have only finished in the top 20 one time in a decade for winning percentage in our history...the decade of the 1970's.  Even the current decade, we are not in the top 20.

I think you meant crowning moment....the seminal moment for Marquette was when Al and George Thompson beat the Racist Rupp in Madison or when Gary Brell cut down the NIT nets with a switchblade or when Al supported but didn't agree with Goose in regards to his stance on the Vietnam War and the National Anthem...or when Al acted as Jim Chones agent when he left MU at season's end so his mom could feed her kids.

You see Chicos, here is the problem with your position with Crean, it was only about the F4 and him, not about the Warrior brand.  Buzz gets that as seen by the recognition of George by the university, versus Crean who used his position to "unretire" #24 because he badmouthed him during play-by-play.

In reality, it is not how you enter a room, it is how you leave it.  Crean deserves his due, but he will never get it, and he has no one to blame but his ego and how he left the room.

(http://)

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 28, 2013, 09:14:37 PM
I think you meant crowning moment....the seminal moment for Marquette was when Al and George Thompson beat the Racist Rupp in Madison or when Gary Brell cut down the NIT nets with a switchblade or when Al supported but didn't agree with Goose in regards to his stance on the Vietnam War and the National Anthem...or when Al acted as Jim Chones agent when he left MU at season's end so his mom could feed her kids.

You see Chicos, here is the problem with your position with Crean, it was only about the F4 and him, not about the Warrior brand.  Buzz gets that as seen by the recognition of George by the university, versus Crean who used his position to "unretire" #24 because he badmouthed him during play-by-play.

In reality, it is not how you enter a room, it is how you leave it.  Crean deserves his due, but he will never get it, and he has no one to blame but his ego and how he left the room.

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lu27a0fOSf1qzgpx9.gif)

Evil hits it outta the park 'cept the climax for MU continues from April 1, 2008 forward as the Mofo left the room and the building. The dude just isn't made from the right fabric or cut from a fine piece of cloth.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 28, 2013, 09:14:37 PM
I think you meant crowning moment....the seminal moment for Marquette was when Al and George Thompson beat the Racist Rupp in Madison or when Gary Brell cut down the NIT nets with a switchblade or when Al supported but didn't agree with Goose in regards to his stance on the Vietnam War and the National Anthem...or when Al acted as Jim Chones agent when he left MU at season's end so his mom could feed her kids.

You see Chicos, here is the problem with your position with Crean, it was only about the F4 and him, not about the Warrior brand.  Buzz gets that as seen by the recognition of George by the university, versus Crean who used his position to "unretire" #24 because he badmouthed him during play-by-play.

In reality, it is not how you enter a room, it is how you leave it.  Crean deserves his due, but he will never get it, and he has no one to blame but his ego and how he left the room.

+ several billion. Seminal moments are ones that define a program. You've selected some excellent ones during Al's tenure, my favorite being that modern day good vs evil win vs Kentucky (the photo of GT with his arms raised as the clock strikes midnight for the Baron of Bigotry is the best ever). If there was a seminal moment in the championship season it probably was the fistfight between Al and Bernard Toone at halftime of that 1st (or was it 2nd?) round tournament game.

Crean had a once in a lifetime player, one magical season and eight that ranged from mediocre to very good. No seminal moment, though, unless it's how he left town.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on May 28, 2013, 09:14:37 PM
I think you meant crowning moment....the seminal moment for Marquette was when Al and George Thompson beat the Racist Rupp in Madison or when Gary Brell cut down the NIT nets with a switchblade or when Al supported but didn't agree with Goose in regards to his stance on the Vietnam War and the National Anthem...or when Al acted as Jim Chones agent when he left MU at season's end so his mom could feed her kids.

You see Chicos, here is the problem with your position with Crean, it was only about the F4 and him, not about the Warrior brand.  Buzz gets that as seen by the recognition of George by the university, versus Crean who used his position to "unretire" #24 because he badmouthed him during play-by-play.

In reality, it is not how you enter a room, it is how you leave it.  Crean deserves his due, but he will never get it, and he has no one to blame but his ego and how he left the room.

Most succinct and persuasive argument on this issue to date.  Well done.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 28, 2013, 10:24:43 PM
+ several billion. Seminal moments are ones that define a program. You've selected some excellent ones during Al's tenure, my favorite being that modern day good vs evil win vs Kentucky (the photo of GT with his arms raised as the clock strikes midnight for the Baron of Bigotry is the best ever).

I would love to see this photo. GT is the best.

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 28, 2013, 11:27:53 PM
I would love to see this photo. GT is the best.

IIRC, the photo was from the Journal. Al has thrown his coat into the air as George stands proudly with arms raised to the sky. I think a blown up version of the original hung on the wall at the Gym Bar.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 28, 2013, 11:45:47 PM
IIRC, the photo was from the Journal. Al has thrown his coat into the air as George stands proudly with arms raised to the sky. I think a blown up version of the original hung on the wall at the Gym Bar.

You are correct, Lenny. That photo was on the wall of the Gym.

Dr. Blackheart

Right on!!