Any word on if he's made an appearance yet or how he's been doing?
Live blog:
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2013/5/16/4336544/2013-nba-draft-combine-live-blog-marquette-golden-eagles-vander-blue
ESPNU from 9am to 1pm Central, and then on ESPN2 from 1pm to 2pm
I think I heard Vander was going to be on at 1 on ESPN 2.
Vander's measurables are going to get him drafted. Book it!
(Yes, I realize there's really no way to prove this unless a GM comes right out as says it, but if Blue gets drafted, I'm still taking credit)
Vander Blue from DePaul..... ?-(
*Already worked out for Lakers
*Has a total of 13 or 14 workouts including the Nets and Pistons
*Butler, DJO, Jae, and Wade helped him make the decision to declare for draft
*He's been working out intensely in LA area with ray mccallum and kelly olynik (zags guy), among others
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/207774821.html
He measured 6 3.5 (without shoes) with a 6 6 wingspan. 197 pounds and 4.6% body fat.
Chad Ford said some of the top picks really underwhelmed with their measurements, especially Shabazz Muhammad who was 6 4 and change. Based on evaluations of those 2 you would think Shabazz had 4 inches on Vander.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on May 16, 2013, 09:31:27 PM
*Already worked out for Lakers
*Has a total of 13 or 14 workouts including the Nets and Pistons
*Butler, DJO, Jae, and Wade helped him make the decision to declare for draft
*He's been working out intensely in LA area with ray mccallum and kelly olynik (zags guy), among others
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/207774821.html
So he got some intelligent input about his decision and not just some Joe-Smo. That's good to hear.
Quote from: Dunk The Ball Eric on May 16, 2013, 10:02:04 PM
He measured 6 3.5 (without shoes) with a 6 6 wingspan. 197 pounds and 4.6% body fat.
Chad Ford said some of the top picks really underwhelmed with their measurements, especially Shabazz Muhammad who was 6 4 and change. Based on evaluations of those 2 you would think Shabazz had 4 inches on Vander.
Kansas' Ben McLemore was just 6-3.5 in socks and 6-4.75 in shoes. He has a 6-7.75 wingspan.
Victor Oladipo was even smaller at 6-3.25 in socks and 6-4.25 in shoes. His wingspan was 6-9.25, though.
I don't think Vander's size will be a determining factor in whether he gets drafted or not.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on May 17, 2013, 06:05:34 AM
So he got some intelligent input about his decision and not just some Joe-Smo. That's good to hear.
Wade told him to follow is heart. That is nice advice, but meaningless.
Quote from: bilsu on May 17, 2013, 08:33:24 AM
Wade told him to follow is heart. That is nice advice, but meaningless.
What do you want from him? Wade isn't a scout or a Liam Neeson character.
Most interesting quote in my opinion ...
"And I think on the offensive end I can create my own shot over them because I'm pretty good size for a point guard."
He thinks he is going to be a Russell Westbrook kind of point guard. He was at my brothers house right after he declared and told him that this is what all the scouts were telling him.
He seems to be convinced that he is a PG, in some interviews he said he was recruited as one, played the position in high school, and feels that is what he is best at.
Quote from: cbowe3 on May 17, 2013, 10:10:47 AM
He thinks he is going to be a Russell Westbrook kind of point guard. He was at my brothers house right after he declared and told him that this is what all the scouts were telling him.
He seems to be convinced that he is a PG, in some interviews he said he was recruited as one, played the position in high school, and feels that is what he is best at gives him the best shot at being drafted and sticking in the NBA.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 17, 2013, 08:36:58 AM
What do you want from him? Wade isn't a scout or a Liam Neeson character.
I think by playing in the league for ten years, your opinion of potential counts for something.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/9285282/2013-nba-draft-notes-day-1-draft-combine
"Who didn't help themselves?
It's pretty hard to hurt your stock in a camp like this. But there was some negativity around the poor shooting performances by Archie Goodwin, B.J. Young and Vander Blue. All three players really struggled to look the part of "shooting" guards in the drills on Thursday. Every year NBA scouts and GMs scour the measurements portion of the combine. We published the results last night and you can find the measurements for every player in the camp plus analysis here."
Quote from: TempoFree on May 17, 2013, 10:38:26 AM
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog/_/name/nba_draft/id/9285282/2013-nba-draft-notes-day-1-draft-combine
"Who didn't help themselves?
It's pretty hard to hurt your stock in a camp like this. But there was some negativity around the poor shooting performances by Archie Goodwin, B.J. Young and Vander Blue. All three players really struggled to look the part of "shooting" guards in the drills on Thursday. Every year NBA scouts and GMs scour the measurements portion of the combine. We published the results last night and you can find the measurements for every player in the camp plus analysis here."
Shocking.
Blue is a point guard and was best we had at pushing ball up the court in transition.
Blue is going to struggle if he is going to be an NBA point guard since he rarely, if ever, played PG in college.
Blue is not a point guard.
MU Mark
I guess time will tell.
This was on ESPN's rumor central titled "Why Blue may not get drafted"
Marquette's Vander Blue is one of the big mysteries as we head toward next month's draft. Because there are questions about whether he will even be drafted, he initially wasn't supposed to be at this week's draft combine, but a spot opened up and he has taken part in the sessions. Unfortunately, he didn't knock anyone's socks off Thursday, which has left many wondering if he will be selected at all.
"According to several NBA officials, including some general managers and player personnel officials, Blue is generally projected as a mid-second round pick," wrote Gery Woelfel of the Journal Times. "However, there are some NBA scouts who contend he won't be drafted at all. They also believe Blue should have remained at Marquette for his final season."
Another mystery is which position he will play as a pro. The collegiate shooting guard thinks his best role as a pro might be running the point.
"I would like to play point guard (in the pros)," Blue said. "I want to show people I can bring the ball up the court.
Clearly he is going to be a project at the next level at either position, but working the point might help cover up some of the inadequacies he displayed at the two during Thursday's combine session:
Quote from: Dunk The Ball Eric on May 17, 2013, 11:40:30 AM
This was on ESPN's rumor central titled "Why Blue may not get drafted"
Marquette's Vander Blue is one of the big mysteries as we head toward next month's draft. Because there are questions about whether he will even be drafted, he initially wasn't supposed to be at this week's draft combine, but a spot opened up and he has taken part in the sessions. Unfortunately, he didn't knock anyone's socks off Thursday, which has left many wondering if he will be selected at all.
"According to several NBA officials, including some general managers and player personnel officials, Blue is generally projected as a mid-second round pick," wrote Gery Woelfel of the Journal Times. "However, there are some NBA scouts who contend he won't be drafted at all. They also believe Blue should have remained at Marquette for his final season."
Another mystery is which position he will play as a pro. The collegiate shooting guard thinks his best role as a pro might be running the point.
"I would like to play point guard (in the pros)," Blue said. "I want to show people I can bring the ball up the court.
Clearly he is going to be a project at the next level at either position, but working the point might help cover up some of the inadequacies he displayed at the two during Thursday's combine session:
Blue is no where near quick enough to play the point in the NBA and whatever quickness he has is negated by a quicker point guard playing defense against him. His only advantage over a PG guarding him is shooting over him, and we all know that's not his strongest attribute.
Quote from: bilsu on May 17, 2013, 08:33:24 AM
Wade told him to follow is heart. That is nice advice, but meaningless.
I want to follow my heart, quit my job, live on a beach....something tells me following one's heart isn't always the smartest thing to do. Hope it works out for him.
Right. Blue should have used his head, not his heart. And if that's the best advice Wade could give him... thanks, but no thanks.
Blue has some serious delusions of grandeur.
Quote from: windyplayer on May 17, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
Blue is no where near quick enough to play the point in the NBA and whatever quickness he has is negated by a quicker point guard playing defense against him. His only advantage over a PG guarding him is shooting over him, and we all know that's not his strongest attribute.
Hater.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKfQWnTCQAIkljZ.jpg)
nice
Looks like he is pretty quick in the lane.
Quote from: windyplayer on May 17, 2013, 12:19:01 PM
Blue is no where near quick enough to play the point in the NBA and whatever quickness he has is negated by a quicker point guard playing defense against him. His only advantage over a PG guarding him is shooting over him, and we all know that's not his strongest attribute.
Blue finished top 5 in the modified lane agility, lane agility, and sprints tests.
Last two years, only two players finished in the top 6 in each three categories. Marquis Teague and Brandon Knight -- both PGs (and first rd picks).
No ones asking Blue to run an offense - but he certainly has the speed and agility to give a GM hope that he can DEFEND a PG.
Quote from: amen426 on May 17, 2013, 03:00:22 PM
Blue finished top 5 in the modified lane agility, lane agility, and sprints tests.
Last two years, only two players finished in the top 6 in each three categories. Marquis Teague and Brandon Knight -- both PGs (and first rd picks).
No ones asking Blue to run an offense - but he certainly has the speed and agility to give a GM hope that he can DEFEND a PG.
That's actually a good point.
He might be a guy who you draft in the 2nd round and ends up developing into a decent combo defender/role player.
Nobody got the ball up court in transition quicker than Blue did. Several times he got defensive rebound and took ball coast to coast and beat everyone down the court. If Buzz would have allowed him to play point this year it would have helped both the team and Blue. His game is suited to play point in up tempo offense.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on May 17, 2013, 02:25:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKfQWnTCQAIkljZ.jpg)
Raw #'s make it look like they are all close, but Vander being about 15-17% (huge statistically) faster in this drill than some lotto picks have to pique the interest of some GMs.
Vander is a winner here.
http://nbadraft.net/combine-measurement-analysis-0
those height numbers are interesting, and kinda funny. Add and inch and round up to get the NBA height (in shoes...whatever). So I'm 6'4.5", round up, 6'5" and add one, 6'6"... huh. Makes me feel tall, but also sad that I can't dunk like every player in the league that is much shorter than me ;D
Quote from: reinko on May 17, 2013, 03:10:43 PM
Vander is a winner here.
http://nbadraft.net/combine-measurement-analysis-0
Love this. NBA Combine results never make or break a prospect. But with such a weak draft class, a strong combine performance can make you stand out in a year where very few players stand out. At the very least, its another selling point he can bring up during team interviews.
Quote from: Goose on May 17, 2013, 03:08:42 PM
Nobody got the ball up court in transition quicker than Blue did. Several times he got defensive rebound and took ball coast to coast and beat everyone down the court.
No question, Blue can score in a full court setting. But, can be a distributor as well? If his role is to be an energy PG for team (coming off the bench to increase the tempo) , he will not only have to score in transition, but also set-up his teammates. There's no evidence from his MU career that he can be a distributor in the full-court.
I would argue that Blue in his earlier seasons held the ball and picked up his dribble a lot.
This is right after he is coming from HS as a PG but we all knew his confident issues as well.
I think he has good vision but question his hands, although his jumper did improve immensely this past year....
His workouts numbers for speed, etc. were pretty good, but his shooting on Thursday was horrible. That may overide the measurements in the draft.
Quote from: nyg on May 17, 2013, 06:15:46 PM
His workouts numbers for speed, etc. were pretty good, but his shooting on Thursday was horrible. That may overide the measurements in the draft.
True.
But it's now up to Vander to shine in individual and group workouts for the teams.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 17, 2013, 03:02:08 PM
That's actually a good point.
He might be a guy who you draft in the 2nd round and ends up developing into a decent combo defender/role player.
AKA Tony Allen (as said in a previous thread). That's actually a great comparison. Limited offensive players and bad poor jump shooters but very solid defenders, if Vander could become another Tony Allen I would consider that a success.
So, Shabazz first exaggerated his age and now his height.
Watching Vander and the combine on ESPN3.
Does anyone have the time mark when they start to talk more in depth about him?
Quote from: indeelaw90 on May 17, 2013, 02:25:18 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BKfQWnTCQAIkljZ.jpg)
Not surprised. I will stick with my prediction that Vander excels at the combine and definitely gets drafted.
There are some teams at the end of the first that might be interested in a combo defender:
- Knicks particularly are full of slow guards that can't defend anyone, especially depending on how Shumpert is recovering (pablo prigioni anyone?)
- Memphis with Tony Allen being an UFA after this season. If he can slow down Tony Parker and then draw a banged up Wade in the finals, he could be set up for an even bigger payday
- LAC if they trade Bledsoe and don't want to overburden Paul with the toughest defensive matchup on the floor all game
- OKC, but with Thabo on the books for another year, I doubt they go that direction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olRRaIZAcmk
F*** the haters
Quote from: MUBurrow on May 18, 2013, 11:17:08 AM
There are some teams at the end of the first that might be interested in a combo defender:
- Knicks particularly are full of slow guards that can't defend anyone, especially depending on how Shumpert is recovering (pablo prigioni anyone?)
- Memphis with Tony Allen being an UFA after this season. If he can slow down Tony Parker and then draw a banged up Wade in the finals, he could be set up for an even bigger payday
- LAC if they trade Bledsoe and don't want to overburden Paul with the toughest defensive matchup on the floor all game
- OKC, but with Thabo on the books for another year, I doubt they go that direction
I like the Memphis theory, very interesting. They have made some very shrewd moves since bringing Hollinger aboard, and have brought advanced metrics to the forefront of player personnel decisions. They won't overpay for Allen, and if they see a guy with Vander's measurables + standout midrange game + defensive reputation + coming from a program that has produced versatile undervalued players good for team chemistry recently in Matthews, Butler and Crowder, they might see Vander as an excellent fit, be that as a first or second round pick. The Grizz are a hot young team with a good front office, I'd really like to see him end up there.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on May 18, 2013, 11:37:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olRRaIZAcmk
F*** the haters
"I'll take the charge."
1 in 3 years, baby.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 18, 2013, 12:25:35 PM
"I'll take the charge."
1 in 3 years, baby.
He is telling them what they wanna hear. ALL players do that..
Quote from: MUBurrow on May 18, 2013, 11:17:08 AM
There are some teams at the end of the first that might be interested in a combo defender:
- Knicks particularly are full of slow guards that can't defend anyone, especially depending on how Shumpert is recovering (pablo prigioni anyone?)
- Memphis with Tony Allen being an UFA after this season. If he can slow down Tony Parker and then draw a banged up Wade in the finals, he could be set up for an even bigger payday
- LAC if they trade Bledsoe and don't want to overburden Paul with the toughest defensive matchup on the floor all game
- OKC, but with Thabo on the books for another year, I doubt they go that direction
If I'm remembering correctly this is how Wes made his name - defending Kobe in the playoffs as a rookie.
Quote from: bilsu on May 17, 2013, 08:33:24 AM
Wade told him to follow is heart. That is nice advice, but meaningless.
How is that advice meaningless? Perhaps that is the key to a life without regret.
Quote from: keefe on May 18, 2013, 12:45:27 PM
How is that advice meaningless? Perhaps that is the key to a life without regret.
Perhaps it's the key to a life full of regret.
Glad we got those perhaps out of the way and we can go back to talking sensibly.
Hey, is it possible to LOVE Marquette bball, but HATE the fan base?? serious question.
Quote from: wadesworld on May 18, 2013, 12:25:35 PM
"I'll take the charge."
1 in 3 years, baby.
Haha I laughed at that too. But to the larger point that he'll play whatever role a team needs him to in order to win, I think he proved that at MU. Pretty much did what Buzz asked him to do, whether that benefitted him personally on the stat sheet or not.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on May 18, 2013, 01:22:05 PM
Haha I laughed at that too. But to the larger point that he'll play whatever role a team needs him to in order to win, I think he proved that at MU. Pretty much did what Buzz asked him to do, whether that benefitted him personally on the stat sheet or not.
+1000
Quote from: Jajuannaman on May 18, 2013, 01:22:05 PM
Haha I laughed at that too. But to the larger point that he'll play whatever role a team needs him to in order to win, I think he proved that at MU. Pretty much did what Buzz asked him to do, whether that benefitted him personally on the stat sheet or not.
Absolutly right!
We tend to look at his lack of a consistent jump shot as though that is the deciding factor as to whether he makes it or not.
Vander is a baller with outstanding athletic skills - I'm guessing very late 1st to mid 2nd round. All teams need someone to defend the Wades, Rondos, and Roses of the world.
chicagotribune.com
Marquette's Blue sought draft advice from Bulls' Butler
By Shannon Ryan
Tribune reporter
1:27 PM CDT, May 17, 2013
Vander Blue's NCAA tournament as a junior was one of the most remarkable among college basketball players. He helped lead Marquette to the Elite Eight, a game-winning shot against Davidson, 29 points against Butler and a 7-for-12 shooting night to beat Miami.
In Blue's eyes, the performances were proof he was NBA ready.
"At first I really wasn't thinking of leaving at all until after I played in the tournament," he said Friday at the NBA predraft combine at Attack Athletics. "I knew I was ready. Nothing was really telling me to stay in school. I felt like it was my time and I wanted to strike when I was hot."
His decision to forego his last season of eligibility irked some Marquette fans and had some basketball analysts questioning whether it was the right move.
He is predicted in mock drafts to be taken in the second round, although Blue said he thinks a team might take a chance on him in the late first round.
Blue, who is 6-foot-4, is hoping his athleticism and breakout junior season will prompt NBA general managers to see him in the same mold as Russell Westbrook or John Wall. After playing off the ball at Marquette, Blue reminds teams that he played point guard most of his life.
He decided to enter the draft on the last day but not before talking things over with his former teammate Jimmy Butler, now with the Bulls. His advice?
"'Just go hard every single day,'" Blue said Butler told him. "'Don't look too far ahead. Don't look at what anyone else has to say.' If he really felt it wasn't right for me, knowing his experience in the NBA, he would have told me to stay."
He could wind up a teammate of Butler again. The Bulls have scheduled him for a workout before the June 27 NBA draft, he said.
Blue, who averaged 14.8 points a game last season, said he shakes off criticism about his decision to leave Marquette early.
"I'm not really concerned about what everybody else has to say about my decision," he said. "I know a lot of Marquette fans wanted me to stay, partially being selfish because they want the team to win more I guess. I can't live for everybody. I can't make everybody happy. It's about me living my life and me having no regrets."
Quote from: mr.MUskie on May 18, 2013, 02:07:49 PM
chicagotribune.com
He could wind up a teammate of Butler again. The Bulls have scheduled him for a workout before the June 27 NBA draft, he said.
I love Vander. But I'll pass on that. I like that aforementioned Memphis scenario.
Quote from: brandx on May 18, 2013, 12:40:46 PM
If I'm remembering correctly this is how Wes made his name - defending Kobe in the playoffs as a rookie.
Not to mention Jimmy was getting press for his defense on LeBron in the playoffs and Kobe in the regular season, in 2 games vs Kobe he held him to an an average of 17.5 points on around 37 percent shooting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=olRRaIZAcmk
Quote from: mr.MUskie on May 18, 2013, 02:07:49 PM
chicagotribune.com
Marquette's Blue sought draft advice from Bulls' Butler
By Shannon Ryan
Tribune reporter
1:27 PM CDT, May 17, 2013
Vander Blue's NCAA tournament as a junior was one of the most remarkable among college basketball players. He helped lead Marquette to the Elite Eight, a game-winning shot against Davidson, 29 points against Butler and a 7-for-12 shooting night to beat Miami.
In Blue's eyes, the performances were proof he was NBA ready.
"At first I really wasn't thinking of leaving at all until after I played in the tournament," he said Friday at the NBA predraft combine at Attack Athletics. "I knew I was ready. Nothing was really telling me to stay in school. I felt like it was my time and I wanted to strike when I was hot."
His decision to forego his last season of eligibility irked some Marquette fans and had some basketball analysts questioning whether it was the right move.
He is predicted in mock drafts to be taken in the second round, although Blue said he thinks a team might take a chance on him in the late first round.
Blue, who is 6-foot-4, is hoping his athleticism and breakout junior season will prompt NBA general managers to see him in the same mold as Russell Westbrook or John Wall. After playing off the ball at Marquette, Blue reminds teams that he played point guard most of his life.
He decided to enter the draft on the last day but not before talking things over with his former teammate Jimmy Butler, now with the Bulls. His advice?
"'Just go hard every single day,'" Blue said Butler told him. "'Don't look too far ahead. Don't look at what anyone else has to say.' If he really felt it wasn't right for me, knowing his experience in the NBA, he would have told me to stay."
He could wind up a teammate of Butler again. The Bulls have scheduled him for a workout before the June 27 NBA draft, he said.
Blue, who averaged 14.8 points a game last season, said he shakes off criticism about his decision to leave Marquette early.
"I'm not really concerned about what everybody else has to say about my decision," he said. "I know a lot of Marquette fans wanted me to stay, partially being selfish because they want the team to win more I guess. I can't live for everybody. I can't make everybody happy. It's about me living my life and me having no regrets."
As I have said in multiple prior posts, VDB is a 1st round draft pick. He may be the best 1-2 guard DEFENDER in the draft. The league wants ready-made defenders ala JFB. "Shooters are in the news but most can't defend like the Vander Blues". In my opinion,his offense will develop just like JFB.
I don't think its selfishness that is making people upset about his decision. If he was a guaranteed first round pick, I don't think most people here would have been mad about him jumping: disappointed maybe, but not mad. Its just damn frustrating for him to leave for such a small chance at the association.
And if you're reading this Vander, I'd quit talking about how you're hoping to "strike it while you're hot."
Quote from: jeffreyweee on May 18, 2013, 12:53:26 PM
Perhaps it's the key to a life full of regret.
Glad we got those perhaps out of the way and we can go back to talking sensibly.
Talking sensibly? You mean meaningless personal opinions based on zero empiricism? If Wade told Vander Blue to follow his heart and Blue acted accordingly then it is the correct decision for Vander Blue.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on May 18, 2013, 05:06:27 PM
As I have said in multiple prior posts, VDB is a 1st round draft pick. He may be the best 1-2 guard DEFENDER in the draft. The league wants ready-made defenders ala JFB. "Shooters are in the news but most can't defend like the Vander Blues". In my opinion,his offense will develop just like JFB.
Something in your post makes me believe that it is possible NBA teams are downplaying him so as to steal him at their slot.
You may just have convinced me that he may sneak into the late 1st or early 2nd.
Of course he'll go earlier.... he's a Warrior!
Quote from: AlienWarrior on May 18, 2013, 05:06:27 PM
As I have said in multiple prior posts, VDB is a 1st round draft pick. He may be the best 1-2 guard DEFENDER in the draft. The league wants ready-made defenders ala JFB. "Shooters are in the news but most can't defend like the Vander Blues". In my opinion,his offense will develop just like JFB.
JFB was a much, much better defender than Vander was and could guard all 5 positions in college. JFB also had a very smooth and effective jumpshot. He didn't take many 3's as it wasn't part of his game, but he could shoot it effectively. JFB was even equally clutch compared to Vander.
Even with all that JFB barely was a 1st round pick and surprised most analysts.
I hope the best for Vander, but I'd be surprised if he was drafted in the first round. Lets hope he at least gets a shot and gets drafted at all.
Quote from: forgetful on May 18, 2013, 06:45:28 PM
JFB was a much, much better defender than Vander was and could guard all 5 positions in college. JFB also had a very smooth and effective jumpshot. He didn't take many 3's as it wasn't part of his game, but he could shoot it effectively. JFB was even equally clutch compared to Vander.
Even with all that JFB barely was a 1st round pick and surprised most analysts.
I hope the best for Vander, but I'd be surprised if he was drafted in the first round. Lets hope he at least gets a shot and gets drafted at all.
Haha. One of many foolish statements. I can remember when people on here thought JFB and Jae wouldnt get drafted at all...I forgot this board had a bunch of experts.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on May 18, 2013, 07:50:00 PM
Haha. One of many foolish statements. I can remember when people on here thought JFB and Jae wouldnt get drafted at all...I forgot this board had a bunch of experts.
Sorry to hurt your feelings, Van.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on May 18, 2013, 01:06:01 PM
Hey, is it possible to LOVE Marquette bball, but HATE the fan base?? serious question.
Hard to say. When Favre left and all the Packer fans were talking so much crap about how he was washed up EVEN when he was a Packer, it made me furious. Fans went from "Brett brought us a SB!!" to "Man, one SB in 16 seasons, dude sucks." It made me still LOVE the Packers, yet HATE the fanbase. Eventually, after so much trash talking about Favre and downplaying his achievements even as a Packer, I became (and still am) apathetic to the Packers and their successes/failures.
Anyway, I definitely wanted Vander to stay. Two reasons. Like Vander said in that interview, it's selfish--with him next year, we go to the FF (maybe with him running point). Second reason is that I too wanted him to leave for a more secure spot in the draft based on what the experts were saying.
When all is said and done, if he's good enough to get into the league, he'll eventually make it. And on June 27th I'll be at the Barclay's Center rocking my Bucks hat and Marquette jersey. When Stern calls Vander's name, I'm going to go nuts.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on May 18, 2013, 01:06:01 PM
Hey, is it possible to LOVE Marquette bball, but HATE the fan base?? serious question.
Its sports, that's why it is such a great thing because everybody has their own opinion. On this board at times, there are those that ream you because of your expressed opinions. Especially the use of the word "experts" by some after others make a statement/point/opinion/thought. Board members never said they are "experts", they just want to say what they think or believe, then they get accused by some. Don't get frustrated, just kick back and read.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on May 18, 2013, 07:50:00 PM
Haha. One of many foolish statements. I can remember when people on here thought JFB and Jae wouldnt get drafted at all...I forgot this board had a bunch of experts.
Maybe you weren't, but I was very high on JFB even as a sophomore and expected him to play in the league. He exceeded my expectations by leaps and bounds, but he was a better pro prospect coming out of college than Vander.
Remember also that Butler was young (like Vander) compared to the peers in his class.
I did not think Jae would get drafted, thought he was too small and not athletic enough. He proved that wrong at the combine and went on to show that his hustle, all out play translates to the next level.
What Vander has in relation to both of them is more raw natural ability. The question is whether he will develop that potential. That makes him a gamble, first round would be a bit much. Second round or undrafted free agent more likely.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on May 18, 2013, 07:50:00 PM
Haha. One of many foolish statements. I can remember when people on here thought JFB and Jae wouldnt get drafted at all...I forgot this board had a bunch of experts.
After their senior year? I doubt very many people didn't think they would be drafted after their senior year. After their junior year...probably...but isn't that the point, they stayed through their senior year.
Quote from: MUBurrow on May 18, 2013, 11:17:08 AM
There are some teams at the end of the first that might be interested in a combo defender:
- Knicks particularly are full of slow guards that can't defend anyone, especially depending on how Shumpert is recovering (pablo prigioni anyone?)
- Memphis with Tony Allen being an UFA after this season. If he can slow down Tony Parker and then draw a banged up Wade in the finals, he could be set up for an even bigger payday
- LAC if they trade Bledsoe and don't want to overburden Paul with the toughest defensive matchup on the floor all game
- OKC, but with Thabo on the books for another year, I doubt they go that direction
I would look more at coaching staff and GM when predicting a land spot, rather than which players are leaving. Vander is going to be an acquired taste when it comes to coaches/GMs.
One newly hired GM that may have interest is Ryan McDonough in Phoenix. This is a guy who was in the Celtics organization while they had Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, and Rajon Rondo drafted as first rounders in the back court. All defensive minded guards.
Phoenix currently has offensive minded-Goran Dragic at PG, with Kendall Marshall backing him up. They also have a wide-open SG spot with Wesley Johnson likely being shown the door as a free agent. Phoenix is set with 3 picks, where McDonough can try put his stamp on the team (even in a down year). Since there aren't a lot of skilled players, one thing he can do, is bring in defensive minded players like Vander in the late 1st round, or with his late 2nd rounder.
Phoenix would be an interesting landing spot at #30 (their second, 1st round pick).
Quote from: amen426 on May 19, 2013, 07:40:34 PM
I would look more at coaching staff and GM when predicting a land spot, rather than which players are leaving. Vander is going to be an acquired taste when it comes to coaches/GMs.
One newly hired GM that may have interest is Ryan McDonough in Phoenix. This is a guy who was in the Celtics organization while they had Tony Allen, Avery Bradley, and Rajon Rondo drafted as first rounders in the back court. All defensive minded guards.
Phoenix currently has offensive minded-Goran Dragic at PG, with Kendall Marshall backing him up. They also have a wide-open SG spot with Wesley Johnson likely being shown the door as a free agent. Phoenix is set with 3 picks, where McDonough can try put his stamp on the team (even in a down year). Since there aren't a lot of skilled players, one thing he can do, is bring in defensive minded players like Vander in the late 1st round, or with his late 2nd rounder.
Phoenix would be an interesting landing spot at #30 (their second, 1st round pick).
All it takes is one. You could have all teams saying he's a 2nd rounder or even a non-draftee, but if one team says he's a first rounder and pulls the trigger, that's all it takes.
Since when is Vander "defensive minded?" He was a solid defender, but lets not blow it out of proportion. He doesn't exactly have piss and vinegar drinking defender written all over him. It's like you are all trying to convince yourselves. I'm a Bulls fan. If they used a first round pick on him, I'd be disappointed. I might be OK with a 2nd rounder, but I'd be SHOCKED if he made the team. I don't know enough about the Bucks roster, but can they afford a shooting guard who can't shoot or even a shooting guard "known" for his defense? I doubt it.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on May 19, 2013, 08:00:54 PM
Since when is Vander "defensive minded?" He was a solid defender, but lets not blow it out of proportion. He doesn't exactly have piss and vinegar drinking defender written all over him. It's like you are all trying to convince yourselves. I'm a Bulls fan. If they used a first round pick on him, I'd be disappointed. I might be OK with a 2nd rounder, but I'd be SHOCKED if he made the team. I don't know enough about the Bucks roster, but can they afford a shooting guard who can't shoot or even a shooting guard "known" for his defense? I doubt it.
What would you call a player that has glaring offensive limitations, but may still get drafted strictly because of his athleticism and defensive potential? I would consider that defensive-minded.
I don't think he will be a 1st round pick. Never did. But I think he will get drafted in the 2nd round because of his athleticism and defense-- or at least his potential to become a versatile NBA Defender. Not exactly "blown out of proportion". Not even a little bit. Read any scouting report on Vander, and his "strengths" will revolve around defensive abilities, or defensive potential. I didn't call him a lock-down defender, but he will be known for his defense. That's a no-brainer.
Vander is plenty quick enough to play PG. Deron Williams is an All-Star and nobody would call him exceedingly quick. Was John Stockton super quick? Was Magic? Each had (or in Williams' case, has) other strengths, but quickness was/is not paramount to their success.
I am not sure if Vander has the vision and/or court sense to make teammates better as a PG. I also don't know how good he'll be able to handle the ball while slicing through an NBA lane inhabited by super-athletic big men.
I never saw him play one second in high school, so if he says he was recruited as a PG, I take him at his word. But he certainly wasn't impressive at Marquette during the stretches in which Buzz used him at PG as a frosh and soph. Plenty of folks, including me, wish Buzz would have played him some at point this past season. But maybe one major reason Vander finally became an excellent college player was because he never had to concentrate on making those around him better. Buzz might have thought putting him in that role would detract both from Vander and the team.
As for his defense, Vander certainly seems to have most of the skills necessary to be a very good perimeter defender. But he's nothing like JFB, who is able to defend very good NBA small forwards and who even did a decent job on LeBron. Wes also had a much more "NBA-ready" body at a similar stage of his career, making him more able to defend a post-up guard - something Vander has never had to do.
It will be interesting to watch the draft and then to watch Vander's progress.
According to the Mpls Star & Tribune
T-Wolves used one of their allowed Combine interviews to meet with Vander...they are looking at the 2-guard position.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/208025801.html
Looking at one website (which was hard to understand)...it looks like the T-wolves have 1 first round draft choice...and 3 second round picks.
Quote from: westcoastwarrior on May 19, 2013, 11:57:37 PM
According to the Mpls Star & Tribune
T-Wolves used one of their allowed Combine interviews to meet with Vander...they are looking at the 2-guard position.
http://www.startribune.com/sports/wolves/208025801.html
Looking at one website (which was hard to understand)...it looks like the T-wolves have 1 first round draft choice...and 3 second round picks.
Reading through the article it said Minn has 2 1st's and 2 2nd's. They clearly want a 2 but Vander has some stiff competition:
"In Chicago, the Wolves interviewed everyone from potential No. 1 overall pick Ben McLemore of Kansas to Georgia's Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Michigan's Tim Hardaway Jr., Providence's Ricky Ledo, Kentucky's Archie Goodwin, North Carolina's Reggie Bullock and Marquette's Vander Blue — shooting guards all..."
Quote from: MU82 on May 19, 2013, 10:00:15 PM
I am not sure if Vander has the vision and/or court sense to make teammates better as a PG. I also don't know how good he'll be able to handle the ball while slicing through an NBA lane inhabited by super-athletic big men.
Not to change the subject, but I feel the same way about D. Wilson as far as court vision and slicing. But some feel he should start on the college level. There may be like minded GMs that view Vander highly and draft him in the first round. It's possible.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/
Draft Express's post combine mock draft. Vander now is not listed at all. Pre-combine mock draft had him going in second round.
Quote from: nyg on May 20, 2013, 07:54:10 AM
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2013/
Draft Express's post combine mock draft. Vander now is not listed at all. Pre-combine mock draft had him going in second round.
Why look at any mock draft if team needs are not taken into consideration? It turns into one bozos guess.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on May 20, 2013, 10:03:22 AM
Why look at any mock draft if team needs are not taken into consideration? It turns into one bozos guess.
Because team need isn't that big of a factor in the back end of the second round. If you expect the 50th pick to contribute in the 8 man rotation, you have serious problems as a team. You take BP all day at that position. Fans always look at the the top 2 stringers when saying if its a team need, but that late they would be competing against the 12th-15th roster spots so its doesn't matter even if they have 2 stud SGs.
pretty good interview with Van - seems confident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olRRaIZAcmk
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on May 20, 2013, 03:02:57 PM
pretty good interview with Van - seems confident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olRRaIZAcmk
He can't afford not to be.
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on May 20, 2013, 03:02:57 PM
pretty good interview with Van - seems confident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olRRaIZAcmk
That's never been a weak spot for him.
Vander's best chance at providing value to a NBA team is at PG. He has pretty good size for a PG and could be a capable defender. But his decision making has a long way to go before he can make a real contribution at that level. If he can knock down outside shots more consistently that takes some pressure of the rest of his game. Hope he finds a spot but I'm not holding my breath.