Didn't see this posted anywhere. http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9278832/acc-investigating-playing-conference-tournament-madison-square-garden-sources-say?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co (http://espn.go.com/new-york/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9278832/acc-investigating-playing-conference-tournament-madison-square-garden-sources-say?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co)
Interesting line from a "source", Sources said MSG can get out of its deal before 2026 if the new Big East doesn't reach certain benchmarks. I wonder what these benchmarks are?
Plus it makes sense for ESPN to make a push to get back into MSG. I presume Fox Sports 1 would have rights to the tourney and when you broadcast from MSG, there is some lucrative money floating around there I would assume.
Win basketball games and this takes care of itself. ACC can hope all they want, but we are still in the driver's seat. Never really been a "root for your conference" kind of guy, but the next few years are going to be different.
I fully expect the ACC (and ESPN) to keep trying and trying and trying.
We need ranked teams...competitive games...and big crowds. Otherwise, the ACC will win.
You will see fans from the Carolinas and further south scream bloody murder if that tournament moves to NY.
Quote from: ecompt on May 15, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
You will see fans from the Carolinas and further south scream bloody murder if that tournament moves to NY.
Yep, it's pretty much a state holiday when the tournament is in Greensboro. Syracuse, Pitt, and some of the schools who fight now to get the tournament in Atlanta in some years because it's not Greensboro probably would be pro-MSG.
"There is real momentum to play the tournament at Madison Square Garden," a source said. "Why shouldn't the premier basketball conference play in the world's premier arena?"
Sources attending the meetings said the ACC should always look at ways to improve its product.
"No matter what business model you're in, if you're the best -- and our league is the best -- you should take it to New York," a source said.
I don't deny that the new ACC is quite stacked but WOW those are some arrogant remarks. ND is going to fit in just fine down there.
Quote from: ecompt on May 15, 2013, 04:47:20 PM
You will see fans from the Carolinas and further south scream bloody murder if that tournament moves to NY.
Doesn't matter what fans in the deep south want. This comes down to what ESPN wants...and they want the ACC at MSG. They won't rest until it happens. And eventually, it will. At that point, where does the Big East go? Philly? Brooklyn? Washington DC? Chicago?
I hope it never happens and MSG stays with the Big East but I would think the most logical spot would be like the United Center in Chicago (assuming the Big Ten is not there). It's more centrally located and is closest to the largest fanbases (Marquette and Creighton). I know Creighton would send upwards of 5-6K there on competitive years.
Quote from: Groin_pull on May 15, 2013, 05:24:50 PM
Doesn't matter what fans in the deep south want. This comes down to what ESPN wants...and they want the ACC at MSG. They won't rest until it happens. And eventually, it will. At that point, where does the Big East go? Philly? Brooklyn? Washington DC? Chicago?
What matters is can the Big East fill the garden or not. We fillsthe building and we are in good shape. If the fans leave the place half empty, we are out. Pretty simple.
I hate the ACC more and more with each passing day.
Well, if their conference is so freaking good, how come we obliterated their best team in the tournament?
Quote from: Donnybrook on May 15, 2013, 05:12:38 PM
Sources attending the meetings said the ACC should always look at ways to improve its product.
I don't deny that the new ACC is quite stacked but WOW those are some arrogant remarks. ND is going to fit in just fine down there.
Then why don't they take UConn? There one of the biggest draws at MSG and their basketball team would be among the best in the ACC.
Arrogant is plain right.
I'm glad St. John's is in our conference which ought to help with MSG.
Quote from: Groin_pull on May 15, 2013, 05:24:50 PM
And eventually, it will.
Maybe in 2027 if they pay a ton...
I'm sure that contract has several outs that MSG can exercise. And I expect them to do just that. Syracuse, Duke, UNC, ND, and Louisville travel well and will pack the house. If ESPN wants this to happen ( and they do), it will happen. Hate to say it, but it's the truth.
Just hope we land on our feet. Brooklyn?
Indianapolis anyone? ;D
Quote from: PTM on May 15, 2013, 11:06:03 PM
Indianapolis anyone? ;D
Dayton fans will make the trip.
Quote from: Groin_pull on May 15, 2013, 05:24:50 PM
Doesn't matter what fans in the deep south want. This comes down to what ESPN wants...and they want the ACC at MSG. They won't rest until it happens. And eventually, it will. At that point, where does the Big East go? Philly? Brooklyn? Washington DC? Chicago?
+1. The Barclays or the United Center would be a great replacement.
Quote from: Donnybrook on May 15, 2013, 05:12:38 PM
"There is real momentum to play the tournament at Madison Square Garden," a source said.
A pebble rolling down a hill can gain momentum. But it's still a pebble.
Quote from: Donnybrook on May 15, 2013, 05:12:38 PM
"Why shouldn't the premier basketball conference play in the world's premier arena?"
They are.
Butler fans travelled well to Maui and the NCAA's. Xavier fans travelled well to Disney and the NCAA's. Creighton travels well. Not like the previous obviously, but I think the Garden will fill up. The key issue is number of teams and tickets sold. With 16 teams, fans had to buy the entire slot of games, so MSG always sold out because the aftermarket was strong with Cuse, UCONN, Pitt, ND, UL fans willing to gobble up the extras. But, that money never made it into MSG coffers. Will fans buy the entire slot is the critical question and is in doubt? I think they will to start.
I understand that there are numerous 'outs' in the current MSG contract and that each BEast school's administration is keenly aware of the need to 'travel well' so those outs aren't exercisable.
I don't see how the BE keeps MSG through 2026. Let's face it--ACC powerhouses Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt are going to travel significantly better than the BE powerhouses and they'll fill the Garden.
I think you just have to look realistically at the conference. The BE powerhouses (Georgetown and Marquette) fans travel decently well, and will probably travel a bit better than the last few years considering one or the other will likely be in the finals each year. Seton Hall and Providence COULD travel well because of proximity, but I just don't see them showing up unless the teams get some consistent success. Nova has been a conundrum as of late, who knows if their fans will show up. St. John's isn't the main draw for New York anymore, that belongs to Syracuse. Creighton, Xavier, and Butler have solid fan bases that turn out to games, but will they travel to the Garden?
Frankly, I think it comes down to a couple factors:
- BE schools have too small and too spread out of an alumni base to compare to larger alumni bases of Pitt, Syracuse, Lville, and UNC
- BE schools don't attract much non-alumni following. Syracuse, Louisville, Notre Dame, Duke are all schools with significant non-alumni following, aka in-state/local fans.
- Most of the BE teams aren't successful enough for fans and alumni to justify the flight out each year
- Casual fans probably will care more about the ACC's best matchup (probably a game with a toss-up of Duke, UNC, Syracuse, or Louisville) vs the BE's best matchup (Marquette vs Georgetown). I would say same goes for the ACC's worst matchup vs BE's worst matchup.
For those reasons, I don't think the Garden will be packed when the BE tourney hits. Andy Katz was right--Marquette could have legitimized the BE conference a little more than it already is with a FF appearance. However, I really really want to be wrong, and I really want to see the Garden sell for the BE matchups.
This will happen because ESPN wants it to happen. Probably within 2-3 years.
The Big East needs to start looking for another location. I say grab the Barclays Center from the A-10. You're still in the NYC metro area...and the arena is supposed to be amazing.
if conference re-alignment starts up again there may not be an ACC as we know it to worry about losing MSG
Quote from: Groin_pull on May 16, 2013, 11:08:14 AM
This will happen because ESPN wants it to happen. Probably within 2-3 years.
The Big East needs to start looking for another location. I say grab the Barclays Center from the A-10. You're still in the NYC metro area...and the arena is supposed to be amazing.
I went to the first game in that building, a Nets preseason game, and was very impressed with that stadium. It looks a little weird on the outside, but is absolutely gorgeous inside.
The longer it takes for this to possibly happen, the less the likelihood that Krzyzewski, Boeheim and possibly Pitino will still be coaching. And hopefully the "newness" of being in the Big East will bring big crowds from Butler, Creighton and Xavier.
Quote from: Heavy Gear on May 16, 2013, 12:04:17 PM
The longer it takes for this to possibly happen, the less the likelihood that Krzyzewski, Boeheim and possibly Pitino will still be coaching. And hopefully the "newness" of being in the Big East will bring big crowds from Butler, Creighton and Xavier.
Really hope you're right. But schools like Syracuse, Duke, and UNC are such big names, I'm not sure it'll matter who's coaching. They'll continue being successful.
Guess we'll see, because you're right, none of those coaches are getting any younger.
here's a perspective from DBR (a Duke blog)
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=47353
QuoteIn the ACC spring meetings, various parties including the new arrivals are pushing to move the ACC Tournament to Madison Square Garden. There is a problem: MSG has no interest in rotating the tournament. Certainly the North Carolina schools will want the tournament in the traditional footprint of the ACC and we would expect some sympathy from Virginia, Virginia Tech, Clemson and Georgia Tech. Greensboro is an easier trip.
Most people would be okay with rotating it we expect but moving it permanently? Not a wise move. You can ask NASCAR and the NHL what happens when you disrupt traditions and alienate your core fans. It's not a good thing to do.
Quote from: Red Stripe on May 16, 2013, 02:15:23 PM
here's a perspective from DBR (a Duke blog)
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=47353
EXACTLY. Does MSG want to host the ACC Tournament once every three years or do they want to host the Big East Tournament every year?
Quote from: Red Stripe on May 16, 2013, 11:35:21 AM
if conference re-alignment starts up again there may not be an ACC as we know it to worry about losing MSG
It will be 14 years before the ACC will lose a team due to re-alignment.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9200081/acc-media-rights-deal-lock-schools-okd-presidents.
Quote from: Heavy Gear on May 16, 2013, 12:04:17 PM
The longer it takes for this to possibly happen, the less the likelihood that Krzyzewski, Boeheim and possibly Pitino will still be coaching. And hopefully the "newness" of being in the Big East will bring big crowds from Butler, Creighton and Xavier.
You cited a couple of final-four programs that surived a coaching transition. Duke survived the transition from Foster to Krzyzewski. Louisville survived the transition from Crum to Pitino. Yeah, there might e a year or two of rebuilding, but the notion that these programs will suffer permanently when they go through a coaching change is just silly.
Far more likely that Butler is unable to survive a future transition from Stevens or Xavier doesn't recover from the Miller to Mack transition that left them out of the NCAA tournament than UL, SU, or Duke will become mid-majors when their coaches leave.
I'm just hoping that Maryland pays $10-20 million for its buyout fees (as opposed to 50) and the ACC crumbles. If Maryland pays substantially less than $50, I bet Florida State leaves the conference, effectively challenging that new let's-keep-all-the-TV-revenue-even-if-you-leave deal that the ACC just signed recently.
Quote from: The Equalizer on May 16, 2013, 06:19:06 PM
It will be 14 years before the ACC will lose a team due to re-alignment.
one would think so unless something like this happens
QuoteIn many ways, the future of the organization(NCAA) is in flux, but Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith has a few suggestions about the way things should be – some of which would change the way the top level of college sports is run for good.
The main thrust of Smith's argument is that the top 60 to 70 schools in Division I should be placed into a new division that allows those schools – the top revenue producers in college sports – to play by what he considers a more sane set of rules.
Smith presented his ideas to a group of about 80 athletics directors that met a few weeks ago in California and has some support for his theory.
http://ohiostate.scout.com/2/1291974.html
Quote from: ElDonBDon on May 16, 2013, 08:41:32 PM
I'm just hoping that Maryland pays $10-20 million for its buyout fees (as opposed to 50) and the ACC crumbles. If Maryland pays substantially less than $50, I bet Florida State leaves the conference, effectively challenging that new let's-keep-all-the-TV-revenue-even-if-you-leave deal that the ACC just signed recently.
Not happening. Florida State willingly signed the grant of rights agreement. The ACC is going to be just fine. Even if Florida State left, the ACC would be just fine.
Quote from: Red Stripe on May 17, 2013, 09:47:32 AM
one would think so unless something like this happens
Even then, I don't see the ACC disolving--every current ACC team would be part of that top 60-80 team division (along with every B12, B10, SEC and P10 member).
The qeustion is whether the next tier would include the best of the rest football programs, or if they would consider basketball only schools.
The biggest risk of the basketball teams splitting from the BE is that there is a possiblity that in the future we're relegated to a status as one of the the best teams in a new 2nd tier divisision slotted between D1 and D2.