I'm watching HOU vs OKC and I discover the stiff, Nick Coliform, from Kansas is still in the NBA. Kirk Hinrich has a decent but unspectacular career and I continue to wonder how did we lose to Kansas in the Final Four with D Wade? Novak is the best 3 pt shooter ever. Diener is my favorite MU player in my history. RJax was a stud! Merritt had some SOG games. I painfully sat in Major Goolsby's as we were crushed from minute 1. MU had the best team I saw in my career and I'm 50. And I'm not a Crean basher as I know the huge positive impact that O'Neill and Crean made at MU. Perhaps if my new favorite coach of all time, Buzz Williams was running the team, MU would have 2 NCAA titles by now? Buzz, I'm all in....go get them 2014 and 2015 recruits who will help put Hinrich and Collison out of my mind forever !!!! Go Warriors !!!!
As I recall Wade had an ankle injury and was not able to play with the intensity of the previous game. They also had us on height inside plus coaching experience.
Quote from: newsdrms on April 24, 2013, 08:53:27 PM
As I recall Wade had an ankle injury and was not able to play with the intensity of the previous game. They also had us on height inside plus coaching experience.
No, the issue was that Diener had shin splints and was no where near normal.....
We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.
Quote from: mcderjim on April 24, 2013, 08:46:30 PM
I'm watching HOU vs OKC and I discover the stiff, Nick Coliform, from Kansas is still in the NBA. Kirk Hinrich has a decent but unspectacular career and I continue to wonder how did we lose to Kansas in the Final Four with D Wade? Novak is the best 3 pt shooter ever. Diener is my favorite MU player in my history. RJax was a stud! Merritt had some SOG games. I painfully sat in Major Goolsby's as we were crushed from minute 1. MU had the best team I saw in my career and I'm 50. And I'm not a Crean basher as I know the huge positive impact that O'Neill and Crean made at MU. Perhaps if my new favorite coach of all time, Buzz Williams was running the team, MU would have 2 NCAA titles by now? Buzz, I'm all in....go get them 2014 and 2015 recruits who will help put Hinrich and Collison out of my mind forever !!!! Go Warriors !!!!
How did Lehigh beat Duke? How did UNC destroy Marquette? How did Marquette beat Kentucky? How did Shaq never get to a Final Four, or for that matter an Elite 8? How did the 1978 MU team lose to Miami (OH)?
One and done...happens all the time. I think the players on that team said it best, but taking their opinions would go against the Crean bashing meme here so why bother listening to what Diener, Novak, Wade, etc all said...we'll just ignore it. ::)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 24, 2013, 09:09:08 PM
We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.
Bingo.
What's funny is that Crean didn't think he could reach "the next step" at Marquette. He thought he plateaued, when in reality he has yet to get Indiana to where he got Marquette, and if he was ever going to get Indiana to where he got Marquette it was going to be this year, with a weak overall product in college basketball and the most talented team he will land there. The funniest part of it all? Buzz took Marquette further than Crean took Indiana this year (or since being at Indiana...heck, he hasn't finished worse than Crean and Indiana since Crean left Marquette).
Members of the team were out late the night before the game drinking and enjoying New Orleans.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 24, 2013, 09:25:25 PM
Members of the team were out late the night before the game drinking and enjoying New Orleans.
DJO and Blue were on the team as 13 and 10 year olds, respectively?
How does the NBA abilities of players 10 years later have anything to do with how they played in college?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2013, 09:16:59 PM
I think the players on that team said it best, but taking their opinions would go against the Crean bashing meme here so why bother listening to what Diener, Novak, Wade, etc all said...we'll just ignore it. ::)
So if the players didn't blame Crean for their being unprepared we can't. Please then explain for me how you can claim Buzz has been out coached and unprepared when the players didn't say as much? Can you spell double standard?
The key to answering this question is to focus on one word: "crushed."
A loss can be explained.
But an utter failure to compete cannot.
And yes, future performance can be used to judge players ten years younger. It's not a perfect analysis, but it's probably more accurate than the reverse.
I will forever place the loss on coaching. I believe that he was fully prepared to get to the final four, and had no idea what to do next.
Kansas was physically stronger than us. There were three early plays that I still remember. Kansas small forward, who was not suspose to be a good shooter drilled a three from the corner late on either the first or second possession, which meant we had to cover him. Novak came in when we were down 7 and badly missed a wide open three and never got untracked. Collison gave Wade a forearm to the neck and Wade seemed tentative after that. The game just snowballed after those plays.
Quote from: MUFlutieEffect on April 24, 2013, 09:30:28 PM
How does the NBA abilities of players 10 years later have anything to do with how they played in college?
Collison and Hinrich were/are good enough to have 10-year NBA careers (and counting). Hinrich will have made well over $100 million by the time he's done playing -- meaning he will have been a good enough pro to earn more than every 2003 Warrior not named Wade ... combined!
Hinrich was a great college player. Collison was very good. They were surrounded by several other highly regarded recruits. Roy Williams is a Hall of Fame coach.
Marquette had one great player, several good ones and a relatively inexperienced (at that point) head coach. We got off to a bad start and it snowballed. That happens. But don't dismiss how good Kansas was.
I think Marquette was overwhelmed. They played like they were in YaYa Land. The Marquette Superbowl for them was the win over Kentucky. Nick Collinson had a chip on his shoulder and just took it to Marquette. The only one who seemed to have a clue that game was D. Wade. The rest of the team was lost. Although the game was a huge disappointment, I am sure everyone was proud of the team that year.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2013, 09:33:08 PM
So if the players didn't blame Crean for their being unprepared we can't. Please then explain for me how you can claim Buzz has been out coached and unprepared when the players didn't say as much? Can you spell double standard?
Show me where I said Buzz had us unprepared? I can recall only one time ever saying Buzz was out coached and I actually said the staff because I'm not silly enough like some people here to think the entire thing falls on one guy. And please, you should be the last person on the planet to say the words double standard.
Its hard to be outcoached when your team is shooting 30%....it isn't your day.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 24, 2013, 09:19:41 PM
Bingo.
What's funny is that Crean didn't think he could reach "the next step" at Marquette. He thought he plateaued, when in reality he has yet to get Indiana to where he got Marquette, and if he was ever going to get Indiana to where he got Marquette it was going to be this year, with a weak overall product in college basketball and the most talented team he will land there. The funniest part of it all? Buzz took Marquette further than Crean took Indiana this year (or since being at Indiana...heck, he hasn't finished worse than Crean and Indiana since Crean left Marquette).
It won't be the most talented team he will have there by a long shot. They had no depth, his future teams will have more depth. He got MU to a Final Four, no one else has not named McGuire.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on April 24, 2013, 09:45:39 PM
The key to answering this question is to focus on one word: "crushed."
A loss can be explained.
But an utter failure to compete cannot.
And yes, future performance can be used to judge players ten years younger. It's not a perfect analysis, but it's probably more accurate than the reverse.
I will forever place the loss on coaching. I believe that he was fully prepared to get to the final four, and had no idea what to do next.
I'm just curious, when MU was "crushed" by UNC a few years ago, was that forever placed on coaching?
I'm always struck by how we beat the #1 team in the country, CRUSHED them, to get to that game with that same coach and the same detractors here NEVER give any credit to that coach. Literally...NEVER. Its as if it didn't happen. Quite revealing.
MU shot the ball terribly, KU's transition offense killed us. People forget it was a one point game past the second media timeout, then the deluge came....reminded me a lot of the UNC vs MU game a few years ago. Some will blame the coach, that's fine...I just find it interesting that getting that far had nothing to do with him and when another coach here gets crushed, well that's different. LOL
Crean's shooting that day really sucked. So did the players
Travis Diener 1 for 11
Meritt was only 5 of 14
Novak 1 for 7
Townsend 0 for 3
Chapman 0 for 3
Bradley 1 for 7
18% we shot from 3 land, 31% for the game but in the first half it was much worse. Ball game. Pretty simple
One guy shot 50%...one guy...Robert Jackson was 6 for 12.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2013, 11:43:37 PM
I'm just curious, when MU was "crushed" by UNC a few years ago, was that forever placed on coaching?
I'm always struck by how we beat the #1 team in the country, CRUSHED them, to get to that game with that same coach and the same detractors here NEVER give any credit to that coach. Literally...NEVER. Its as if it didn't happen. Quite revealing.
MU shot the ball terribly, KU's transition offense killed us. People forget it was a one point game past the second media timeout, then the deluge came....reminded me a lot of the UNC vs MU game a few years ago. Some will blame the coach, that's fine...I just find it interesting that getting that far had nothing to do with him and when another coach here gets crushed, well that's different. LOL
I'll be the first to say it was partial coaching two years ago. Buzz wasn't experienced enough yet to beat a Blue Blood program on that stage, the caliber of players (at that moment) didn't help either.
Partly due to Crean not being a very good coach, but lots to do with ZFB jinxing MU. Every tourney game up to KU he rocked an awesome MU shirt. The KU game was at the same time his friend was having his "pink out" birthday party at La Cage.
ZFB wore the lucky MU shirt under his little pink & glitter number, but it wasn't the same. MU was doomed.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 24, 2013, 09:09:08 PM
We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.
If we'd have just shot more 3s, we would have won.
Three future NBAers on MU's team vs. Five on Kansas's
Scratch that.
Bad game planning that clapping couldn't even overcome.
And he knew it: http://www2.kusports.com/news/2003/apr/05/crean_concerned_about/
Recap:
Jayhawks do it all right in monumental blowout
RECOMMEND0TWEET0
NEW ORLEANS (AP) -- Kansas shook the Superdome with rim-rattling dunks, a fast break that couldn't be stopped and a blowout of historic proportions.
It was as close to perfect as basketball can get, and now the Jayhawks and Roy Williams are one step closer to that elusive national title.
All-American Nick Collison scored 12 points and had 15 rebounds Saturday night to lift the Jayhawks to a 94-61 victory against overmatched Marquette, the fourth-most lopsided game in Final Four history.
"Some people could say we reached the pinnacle of our game today,'' Williams said. "I hope there's still something left in us.''
In his 15th season as coach at Kansas (30-7), Williams stands one win away from the national title he needs to fill out an otherwise impeccable resume.
Whether he gets it or not Monday against Syracuse, a 95-84 winner over Texas in the second semifinal, he will go home knowing his team set a standard for Final Four excellence.
Pushing the ball at will, outjumping and outhustling Marquette (27-6), the Big 12 regular-season champions shot 53 percent -- and that was despite a long dry spell when the reserves were on court at the end of the game.
They made eight 3-pointers and many times simply embarrassed the Golden Eagles, snatching loose balls out of their hands, beating them downcourt for uncontested layups and dunking no fewer than 15 times.
Collison may be the best player for Kansas, but he certainly wasn't the only star. Keith Langford led the Jayhawks with 23 points on 11-for-14 shooting. Kirk Hinrich and Aaron Miles scored 18 points each.
The four of them missed only 16 of 46 shots before Williams finally relented, emptying the bench with 5 minutes left -- ensuring the Jayhawks would be fresh for their first appearance in the title game since 1991.
Given the performance, Kansas might seem like a shoo-in for the title. Williams has been around too long to get comfortable.
"You're still dealing with 19, 20, 21-year-old kids,'' he said. "Who knows what the mood will be? Our focus is to practice hard, and hope we play our best game of the season Monday night.''
But how to top this?
The Kansas win was the biggest blowout at the Final Four since Michigan State beat Penn 101-67 in the 1979 semifinals. The most lopsided was Princeton's 118-82 victory over Wichita State in a third-place game in 1965.
"We've played a lot of good teams, some conference champions, and I would put them as good as anyone we've faced,'' Marquette coach Tom Crean said.
Collison, who had 33 points and 19 rebounds in Kansas' 69-65 win over Duke last week, came five assists away from joining Marquette's Dwyane Wade as the second player in this monthlong NCAA tournament to record a triple-double.
Collison came up short, but it was no problem.
In a Final Four full of stars, he way outshined Wade, a fellow All-American. The Marquette junior closed out a remarkable season, and likely his college career, on a frustrating 19-point night that included a literal -- and inadvertent -- slap in the face from Collison. It happened while the Kansas forward was twisting to go up for a shot.
It was one of many mortifying moments for Marquette, which shocked top-ranked Kentucky in last week's Midwest Regional final to make its first Final Four since 1977.
The late Al McGuire led that team, then known as the Warriors, to their only championship that season, but on this night, the spirit of '77 certainly wasn't with them.
"We were paralyzed a few times -- standing around, not getting back,'' Crean said.
Never were they more flat-footed than late in the first half with Kansas leading 52-28.
Langford missed the second of two free throws and Marquette's Robert Jackson had the rebound in his hands, only to fumble it away. Kansas missed, and on the rebound, the ball went right through the hands of Marquette's Todd Townsend and straight to Collison, who drove for an easy layup.
It was part of a 18-4 run that Williams said was one of the most impressive he's ever seen.
"I cannot remember any time where we've done that kind of thing,'' he said.
Kansas led 59-30 at halftime -- the fourth-highest halftime point total in Final Four history. The Jayhawks had 16 assists by the half, one of many gaudy statistics they piled up in 20 minutes that most teams take an entire game to post.
Williams, making his fourth Final Four appearance with the Jayhawks, will spend at least two more days deflecting talk of his potential candidacy for the North Carolina job.
The coach has tersely avoided discussing a return to his alma mater, saying it would cheat his players in their quest to bring the first championship to Kansas since 1988 -- Larry Brown's last year as coach.
"It's never really been a problem,'' Collison said, referring to the coaching talk. "We're in the Final Four. We've been playing all season. So, I think when you get to this point, you just focus on the game.''
Maybe, however, Crean is interested. A key member of Tom Izzo's staff at Michigan State four years ago, Crean has been floated as a possible successor to Matt Doherty, largely due to Marquette's unexpected surge this season.
I was looking for a Play-by-Play to see how the shooting numbers fell by the half, but here is the "Game at a Glance" (narrative on the periodic flow of the game):
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney03/story?id=1534397
Game at a glance: Marquette vs. Kansas
ESPN.com
Pregame
Marquette coach Tom Crean is an emotional guy. All week, he's been unveiling the hats of teams that have shocked the pundits and won big games. For his final motivational ploy, he showed every "One Shining Moment" video montage CBS has ever produced.
Kansas, meanwhile, was cool and confident in pregame warmups. Roy Williams, who's been relaxed all week, was smiling and laughing. His team seemed to feed off that.
And one final note: at the end of practice on Friday, Marquette practiced a postgame victory celebration at midcourt, complete with a dogpile in front of their bench. Crean just smiled and hoped it was a sign of things to come.
Kansas leads 12-9, 15:17 left, first half
Kansas jumped to an early 5-0 lead and led by three at the first television timeout. Marquette scored just once on its first six possessions, but rallied to tie the game at nine on a tip at the 15:50 mark. Aaron Miles had six quick points, including a 3-pointer to open the scoring. Dwyane Wade had just two early points for Marquette. Nick Collison was scoreless and hadn't taken a shot.
Kansas leads 23-14, 12:16 left, first half
Kirk Hinrich hit a pair of 3-pointers as Kansas went on a 9-2 run to push its lead to nine. Kansas continued to push the pace, as Marquette settled into a zone defense. The Jayhawks countered by trying to beat it down the floor. Kansas hit nine of its first 15 shots, while Marquette was shooting just 38 pecent. Collison has taken just one shot for Kansas, but Keith Langford and Aaron Miles each have 6 points.
Kansas leads 31-16, 9:05 left, first half
Kansas is totally in control of the game. The Jayhawks are dominating the pace and have Marquette rushing, something the Golden Eagles haven't done in the tournament. When Kansas took a 25-14 lead with 11:07 left, it was the biggest deficit Marquette had faced in the tournament. Collison finally scored with 10:37 left -- and added a dunk a little over a minute later. Langford is off to a fast start with eight points.
Kansas leads 33-16, 7:59 left, first half
Hinrich has 10 points as the Jayhawks continue to roll. Collison has eight rebounds to go along with his four points.
Kansas leads 44-26, 3:43 left, first half
The rout is really on now. Michael Lee scored twice, including a 3-pointer, to give Kansas its 18-point lead.
Dick Vitale: "The transition game of Kansas is too much for Marquette right now. They just push the ball too quickly. And while everybody was looking at Hinrich and Collison from Kansas, nobody was looking at Langford. And he's having a great first half." A bad omen for Marquette: Kansas is 20-0 this season when it scores 80 or more points. They're well on their way.
Kansas leads 59-30 at halftime
Not since Michigan State led Penn by 33 points at halftime of their national semifinal in 1979 has there been such a rout after 20 minutes. Kansas' 29-point lead is their biggest of the game. For the half, Kansas shot 60 percent from the field (compared to 28 percent for Marquette). The Jayhawks were 6-for-12 from the 3-point line; Marquette was 1-for-9. Langford has 17 points (on 8-for-10 shooting), Hinrich has 15 and Collison has 10 and 12 rebounds. Meanwhile, for Marquette, Wade and Travis Diener are 5-for-18 from the field. Wade has 10 points; Diener just three.
One of the most telling numbers: Kansas has 19 fast-break points. Marquette has none.
Dick Vitale: "If you had to give them a grade, it's an A-plus. What a half."
Kansas leads 73-32, 15:22 left, second half
Marquette coach Tom Crean said he wanted to cut into Kansas' halftime advantage in four-minute intervals. After four-plus minutes of the second half, he's minus-12. Kansas went on a tear to open the second half, scoring the first eight points to build a 37-point lead. The Jayhawks continue to fast break Marquette at every opportunity. Marquette, meanwhile, has slipped to 25 percent from the field and has only two players with more than four points. Kansas, meanwhile, has four players in double figures, led by Langford with 19. Miles and Hinrich have 18 each.
Kansas leads 79-39, 13:15 left, second half
How bad is it for Marquette? The Golden Eagles are out of timeouts with 13 minutes left. Kansas continues to pour it on, hitting nine of its first 10 shots in the second half. All that's left? Records and pride.
Kansas leads 85-48, 7:37 left, second half
Kansas got a little sloppy midway through the half as the lead slipped to -- gasp! -- 25, but no one in red and blue was feeling threatened. Hinrich left with 18 points. Collison left with 12 points and 15 rebounds. The Jayhawks continue to shoot 64 percent from the field. Backcourt scoring through 32-plus minutes? 70-19. Game over. Long ago.
Kansas leads 92-52, 3:41 left, second half
The biggest semifinal rout in tournament history is 36 points. Kansas is now up 40. Kansas now has five players in double figures. Marquette continues to struggle to get to 30 percent shooting.
Kansas wins 94-61
Kansas walk-on Brett Olson (averaging 0.4 ppg this season) enters the game with three minutes left, officially sealing the deal. Three minutes later, Kansas had won by 33 points -- and it wasn't that close. The Jayhawks shot more than 60 percent from the field for most of the game and held Marquette to 31 percent. Langford finished with 23 points, Hinrich and Miles with 18, Lee with 13 and Collison with 12 and 15 rebounds. Wade had 19 points to lead Marquette.
Dick Vitale: "Kansas had its transition game in gear right out of the gate. It was simple: Kansas dominated in every phase of the game."
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on April 25, 2013, 01:09:47 AM
Bad game planning that clapping couldn't even overcome.
And he knew it: http://www2.kusports.com/news/2003/apr/05/crean_concerned_about/
Recap:
Jayhawks do it all right in monumental blowout
One of the most shameful nights in the long history of Marquette basketball. To be humiliated so thoroughly in front of the entire nation on college basketball's biggest stage was too much to bear. It really did brand the team's erstwhile success as a fluke. It reinforced the notion that, somehow, Marquette really did not belong. They were pretenders, after all. The shimmering gown turned maid's smock as the clock struck midnight.
Tom Crean had all week to prepare for that game. His paralysis as Pearl Harbor unfolded was mortifying then opprobrious. Subsequent seasons confirmed our increasing awareness that beneath the tan lurked a charlatan. If that man spent half the time in mission planning as he did in self-promotion we should have had at least a fighting chance. Instead, Pearl Harbor gave way to Corregidor and we had a full-on Bataan Death March unfold before our very eyes. The sting of that night was at once abhorrent and invidious. And all for want of leadership.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 24, 2013, 11:43:37 PM
...
I'm always struck by how we beat the #1 team in the country, CRUSHED them, to get to that game with that same coach and the same detractors here NEVER give any credit to that coach. Literally...NEVER. Its as if it didn't happen. Quite revealing.
...
While I agree that there is a tendency to blame the coach for losses but not give credit for victories (especially Crean), I disagree with your vehemance about not giving Crean credit for the victory over Kentucky in 2003. Plenty of people (probably including some of the detractors you are trying to call out) acknowledge how wise a move it was to double-down on Estill. Challenging him that way really shook him up and took him out of the game. There were other factors in the win, but that was undoubtedly a coaching move that made a big difference, and people have noted that plenty over the years.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 24, 2013, 09:25:25 PM
Members of the team were out late the night before the game drinking and enjoying New Orleans.
Not sure if the team was but I sure was. Just remember bits and pieces of Pat o' Brian's.
We gave up something like 60 points in the first half. 4ever nails it
I cannot believe that someone thought it was a good idea to bring this topic back up. Same old characters saying the same old sh*t...
for the same reason a superior IU team lost to Cuse this year
3 post from the OP. Kansas hit MU hard early, right in the mouth, the game got away and there were no answers. It was painful but it happens to everybody. It just happened to MU on the biggest stage.
They had us on foot speed at every position...and they were hot. I think Ray Langford was just shredding anyone that was covering him. One of their other 2/3's was doing the same to a lesser extent. No one could stay in front of them. Hinrich was not the problem as much as those slashers. What hurt was those were probably not the guys we were terrified of. Langford to a certain degree, but if you have Langford running by his guy at will and then Collison on the block on the other side and have to help, you are done.
I remember Crean's best move was putting in Carlton Christian.Karon Bradley --- I knew it was a one year wonder---thanks for the correction--- He actually stayed in front of Langford. I can't remember it too well, but I think we tried zoning and they just shredded the zone too.
Rough day. I prefer to remember the Kentucky game from that year.
That would have been quite a move by Coach Crean, since Carlton Christian did not start his brief MU career until autumn of 2003. (I use 'autumn', because the 'fall' of 2003 happened in NOLA.)
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 24, 2013, 09:09:08 PM
We had a penis head masqueradin' as a head coach who crapped his trousers on college basketball's biggest stage because couldn't figure out Kansas' fast break, though he had a week to prepare.
Not exactly how I would have put it, but we essentially peed down our collective leg. I don't think we were mentally ready for the show.
Quote from: mug644 on April 25, 2013, 04:46:47 AM
While I agree that there is a tendency to blame the coach for losses but not give credit for victories (especially Crean), I disagree with your vehemance about not giving Crean credit for the victory over Kentucky in 2003. Plenty of people (probably including some of the detractors you are trying to call out) acknowledge how wise a move it was to double-down on Estill. Challenging him that way really shook him up and took him out of the game. There were other factors in the win, but that was undoubtedly a coaching move that made a big difference, and people have noted that plenty over the years.
I have NEVER read the detratctors here ever give the staff credit for that win against Kentucky. NEVER. It's as if it didn't happen. It is quite revealing.
I would suggest people read the NCAA transcripts of the interviews that week leading up to the game and the transcripts after the game. They knew exactly what was coming, they prepared for it in practice, they didn't execute in the game. It didn't help that we also shot horribly.
Reading Dwyane, Travis, etc quotes about our head coach will further validate to some here how stupid Dwyane and Travis are that they don't see it their way. :D
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on April 25, 2013, 12:18:54 AM
I'll be the first to say it was partial coaching two years ago. Buzz wasn't experienced enough yet to beat a Blue Blood program on that stage, the caliber of players (at that moment) didn't help either.
In my opinion it was the wrong game plan. Buzz was worried about North Carolina fast breaking on missed threes so his game plan was to continually feed the ball into Otule and not take any outside shots. Several of the passes to Otule were stolen and when they did get it to Otule he did not score at all. The reality was the only way we were going to beat North Carolina was if we were hot from three point line. That option was not in Buzz's game plan.
Quote from: mcderjim on April 24, 2013, 08:46:30 PM
I'm watching HOU vs OKC and I discover the stiff, Nick Coliform, from Kansas is still in the NBA. Kirk Hinrich has a decent but unspectacular career and I continue to wonder how did we lose to Kansas in the Final Four with D Wade? Novak is the best 3 pt shooter ever. Diener is my favorite MU player in my history. RJax was a stud! Merritt had some SOG games. I painfully sat in Major Goolsby's as we were crushed from minute 1. MU had the best team I saw in my career and I'm 50. And I'm not a Crean basher as I know the huge positive impact that O'Neill and Crean made at MU. Perhaps if my new favorite coach of all time, Buzz Williams was running the team, MU would have 2 NCAA titles by now? Buzz, I'm all in....go get them 2014 and 2015 recruits who will help put Hinrich and Collison out of my mind forever !!!! Go Warriors !!!!
Because Nick Collison still plays in the NBA. RJax? Hardly. Hinrich was much better than Diener, as much as we love him, and his NBA career proves that beyond a doubt. Also, Wayne Simien played in the NBA player and was an All-American, and Keith Langford got a cup of coffee in the league and has had a pretty good international career.
They had more NBA players, and besides Wade - better ones.
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 25, 2013, 12:42:08 AM
Partly due to Crean not being a very good coach, but lots to do with ZFB jinxing MU. Every tourney game up to KU he rocked an awesome MU shirt. The KU game was at the same time his friend was having his "pink out" birthday party at La Cage.
ZFB wore the lucky MU shirt under his little pink & glitter number, but it wasn't the same. MU was doomed.
Nope, sitting at the bar at Caffrey's. Luckily, I was so damn drunk I don't remember much, if any, of that game.
Kansas was better that day. They executed their plan and hit their shots. MU didn't. Why? Besides Kansas being really good, IMO, the moment was too big for that MU team on that day. Their goal was to make it to NOLA. They made it. Now what? Crean and the team prepared for that game like they prepared for the others. On that day, it simply wasn't good enough. MU couldn't make stops, couln't play transition defense, couldn't hit shots, and when MU did, Kansas took the ball out of the basket and pushed the ball anyway. A whole bunch of things came together against MU. It was painful, humiliating, ugly, but it happens. Earlier this past season, when Miami was running a lay-up/alley oop drill against Duke, did anybody think it meant that Miami was really that much better than Duke or that K had lost his touch? When Louisville went on a 44-10 run against Syracuse in the BEast final, did Cuse fold its tent?
Bottom line is that Kansas had a really good team. And they played really well against MU and MU did not respond, from head coach to walk-on. The Gator game this season felt the same, the only difference was the size of the stage and the amount of attention. And somehow, MU's season continued. It turned out ok.
I'll tell you what it was, it was that damned Sasquatch!
Quote from: ResidentBrown on April 25, 2013, 10:59:10 AM
I'll tell you what it was, it was that damned Sasquatch!
Lady, you're scaring us.
(I know it's not the same movie, but still)
Quote from: klyrish on April 26, 2013, 12:49:28 AM
Lady, you're scaring us.
(I know it's not the same movie, but still)
Same movie.
I'll take the blame. For every game leading up to the Final Four I was able to watch, sneaking away from work, driving 20 miles to a country bar, blowing-off guests and hiding in the basement watching the Kentucky game. But when Marquette played Kansas, I never got to see more than 2 minutes of the game.
Despite 6 months warning, my sister scheduled her wedding for that afternoon. As expected the marriage didn't last. I may be more bitter than her.
Quote from: warriorfred on April 26, 2013, 07:49:53 AM
I'll take the blame. For every game leading up to the Final Four I was able to watch, sneaking away from work, driving 20 miles to a country bar, blowing-off guests and hiding in the basement watching the Kentucky game. But when Marquette played Kansas, I never got to see more than 2 minutes of the game.
Despite 6 months warning, my sister scheduled her wedding for that afternoon. As expected the marriage didn't last. I may be more bitter than her.
You win the internet for today.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 26, 2013, 08:09:35 AM
You win the internet for today.
I don't know...I'd say she did him a favor.
I will never find it shameful when a MU team makes the Final Four.....something that has happened only three times in our history.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 26, 2013, 06:50:35 PM
I will never find it shameful when a MU team makes the Final Four.....something that has happened only three times in our history.
Making the Final Four was not shameful. But our presence there was questioned. We were seen as the poor relations at the wedding reception. Many said we simply did not belong. And on that Saturday we proved to the world that we were unworthy. Within 10 minutes we told the world we had no business being there. And that is shameful.
But this is not on the lads. Far from it. This was a failure of leadership. From a talent stand point we should have been competitive. Instead, the coach failed to prepare properly and when deluge turned cataclysm he did nothing more than to look on in pained horror. And that is when shame turned to humiliation.
Tom Crean. The man who put the tan in Charlatan.
When Heinrich was with the Bulls (his first go around) and was about to play the Heat, he was asked about playing Wade in the final four. He noted that when MU came out wanting to run to start the game, he and his teammates' eyes widened as they could not believe it. They knew no one could run with Kansas and was obviously the wrong strategy. In all honesty, I was at the game (barely made it and arrived just a few minutes before the game started) and have not been able to watch a replay of the game, so I can't vouch for Heinrich's assessment. Sounds reasonable to me as a fast-paced game truly would play to Kansas' strength and allow for such a lop-sided game.
Quote from: MUDrag on April 26, 2013, 09:56:34 PM
When Heinrich was with the Bulls (his first go around) and was about to play the Heat, he was asked about playing Wade in the final four. He noted that when MU came out wanting to run to start the game, he and his teammates' eyes widened as they could not believe it. They knew no one could run with Kansas and was obviously the wrong strategy. In all honesty, I was at the game (barely made it and arrived just a few minutes before the game started) and have not been able to watch a replay of the game, so I can't vouch for Heinrich's assessment. Sounds reasonable to me as a fast-paced game truly would play to Kansas' strength and allow for such a lop-sided game.
leave it to Crean to devise such a devastatingly effective plan of attack. That guy would have f#cked up Desert Storm.
Quote from: keefe on April 26, 2013, 07:06:39 PM
Making the Final Four was not shameful. But our presence there was questioned. We were seen as the poor relations at the wedding reception. Many said we simply did not belong. And on that Saturday we proved to the world that we were unworthy. Within 10 minutes we told the world we had no business being there. And that is shameful.
But this is not on the lads. Far from it. This was a failure of leadership. From a talent stand point we should have been competitive. Instead, the coach failed to prepare properly and when deluge turned cataclysm he did nothing more than to look on in pained horror. And that is when shame turned to humiliation.
Tom Crean. The man who put the tan in Charlatan.
Yeah, I wish we would have just lost to Kentucky like we were supposed to so you would feel less shame. That would have been ideal.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 27, 2013, 10:35:41 AM
Yeah, I wish we would have just lost to Kentucky like we were supposed to so you would feel less shame. That would have been ideal.
Very obtuse, Chico. I expect better of you!
Quote from: MUDrag on April 26, 2013, 09:56:34 PM
When Heinrich was with the Bulls (his first go around) and was about to play the Heat, he was asked about playing Wade in the final four. He noted that when MU came out wanting to run to start the game, he and his teammates' eyes widened as they could not believe it. They knew no one could run with Kansas and was obviously the wrong strategy. In all honesty, I was at the game (barely made it and arrived just a few minutes before the game started) and have not been able to watch a replay of the game, so I can't vouch for Heinrich's assessment. Sounds reasonable to me as a fast-paced game truly would play to Kansas' strength and allow for such a lop-sided game.
Hinrich played 60 of a possible 63 minutes in the Bulls' triple-OT win over Brooklyn on Saturday. 18 pts, 14 assists, 4 rebs, 4 steals.
Yes, Wade was the best player on the court in that MU-Kansas game but Hinrich was second-best by a wide margin over the next guy, who happened to be Collison, another 10-year NBA veteran. Throw in the supporting players and the coaching, and it's really quite easy to see why Kansas won that game.
Quote from: MU82 on April 27, 2013, 06:50:25 PM
Hinrich played 60 of a possible 63 minutes in the Bulls' triple-OT win over Brooklyn on Saturday. 18 pts, 14 assists, 4 rebs, 4 steals.
Yes, Wade was the best player on the court in that MU-Kansas game but Hinrich was second-best by a wide margin over the next guy, who happened to be Collison, another 10-year NBA veteran. Throw in the supporting players and the coaching, and it's really quite easy to see why Kansas won that game.
Of course...they were the better team that day and probably 7 times out of 10 if they played us. Throw in our horrific shooting, and we lost.
Like I said before, its amazing that those the berate this time and time again have NEVER said what a great job it was beating #1 Kentucky to get there. Revealing.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 27, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Like I said before, its amazing that those the berate this time and time again have NEVER said what a great job it was beating #1 Kentucky to get there. Revealing.
Benedict Arnold was the finest field commander in the Continental Army. His treachery soiled his reputation, rightly obscuring his military accomplishments. Arnold led the Continental Army to victory at Saratoga, which convinced France to enter the war. Without Arnold the Revolution likely ends in failure. But do we honor him for his crucial role in securing victory? Absolutely not. He is correctly defined by perfidy and his place in the cavalcade of history will always be directly behind the elephants.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 27, 2013, 10:23:39 PM
Like I said before, its amazing that those the berate this time and time again have NEVER said what a great job it was beating #1 Kentucky to get there. Revealing.
Well, in reality, someone did just that - on page 1, I believe. But if your persecution complex helps you sleep at night, then you may carry on.
Quote from: keefe on April 27, 2013, 11:45:58 PM
Benedict Arnold was the finest field commander in the Continental Army. His treachery soiled his reputation, rightly obscuring his military accomplishments. Arnold led the Continental Army to victory at Saratoga, which convinced France to enter the war. Without Arnold the Revolution likely ends in failure. But do we honor him for his crucial role in securing victory? Absolutely not. He is correctly defined by perfidy and his place in the cavalcade of history will always be directly behind the elephants.
And strangely, in Harry Potter-esque fashion (his name who shall not me named), at the Saratoga battlefield monument he is thanked for his service without mentioning his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Monument
He should have been Connecticut's greatest American Revolutionary figure instead he becomes the war's most reviled person.
Quote from: slingkong on April 29, 2013, 11:31:06 AM
Well, in reality, someone did just that - on page 1, I believe. But if your persecution complex helps you sleep at night, then you may carry on.
Literally no one on planet earth has invested the time and energy to defend all things TC that Chicos has. It is his raison d'être.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 29, 2013, 01:35:02 PM
Literally no one on planet earth has invested the time and energy to defend all things TC that Chicos has. It is his raison d'être.
Mmmm ... raisin bread!
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 29, 2013, 01:35:02 PM
Literally no one on planet earth has invested the time and energy to defend all things TC that Chicos has. It is his raison d'être.
I enjoy calling out hypocrisy and if there has ever been a topic of such epic douche baggery hyprocrisy by MU fans, it is with that subject. EPIC levels.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on April 29, 2013, 12:18:03 PM
And strangely, in Harry Potter-esque fashion (his name who shall not me named), at the Saratoga battlefield monument he is thanked for his service without mentioning his name.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boot_Monument
He should have been Connecticut's greatest American Revolutionary figure instead he becomes the war's most reviled person.
Fidelity, loyalty, and integrity count. Treachery is a statement on character. Some people understand that.
I don't want to blame it all on 9/11, but it certainly didn't help.
Quote from: ResidentBrown on April 29, 2013, 08:52:41 PM
I don't want to blame it all on 9/11, but it certainly didn't help.
Was that Tom Crean on the grassy knoll?