MVC is replacing one Jesuit school (Creighton) with another (Loyola).
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-04-13/sports/chi-loyola-missouri-valley-conference-20130413_1_basketball-team-horizon-league-ramblers
Guess it makes sense in that a lot of MVC programs - Southern Illinois, Illinois State, St. Louis, Bradley, Northern Iowa - recruit the Chicago area.
Valparaiso is a better program, has better fan support, and is going to "get" Chicago just as much as Loyola will. This is a real head-scratcher IMO...they were looking at a bunch of schools and this looks like the worst choice they could have made.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2013, 10:08:10 AM
MVC is replacing one Jesuit school (Creighton) with another (Loyola).
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-04-13/sports/chi-loyola-missouri-valley-conference-20130413_1_basketball-team-horizon-league-ramblers
Guess it makes sense in that a lot of MVC programs - Southern Illinois, Illinois State, St. Louis, Bradley, Northern Iowa - recruit the Chicago area.
I though St. Louis was in the A-10??
Quote from: Dreadman24 on April 14, 2013, 10:31:27 AM
I though St. Louis was in the A-10??
Yes. My brainfa-t.
Loyola had an average attendance over the past five years of 2,280 (2nd to last in the Horizon by only ~30 people), an average RPI 243, and there best finish over that same timespan was 4th to last.
The only thing that makes sense is Valpo/UIC wouldn't pony up the money to upgrade their facilities/etc. Valpo's men's bball budget is only 2.0M and UIC's is 2.2M. Otherwise if Valpo or UIC was willing to do so and the MVC still took Loyola then its a head-shaker...
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 14, 2013, 10:19:16 AM
Valparaiso is a better program, has better fan support, and is going to "get" Chicago just as much as Loyola will. This is a real head-scratcher IMO...they were looking at a bunch of schools and this looks like the worst choice they could have made.
Nobody in Chicago cares about Valpo and nobody would ever consider Valpo part of the Chicago market.
Loyola has good facilities and, while they're barely on the sports radar here, they have a large (and influential) alumni base in Chicago that would care if the team gave them something to care about.
If you're a coach at Bradley or SIU or Northern Iowa, you can sell Chicago-area kids on a chance to play a game at "home" with Loyola. You can't sell that with Valpo.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2013, 11:06:09 AM
Nobody in Chicago cares about Valpo and nobody would ever consider Valpo part of the Chicago market.
Loyola has good facilities and, while they're barely on the sports radar here, they have a large (and influential) alumni base in Chicago that would care if the team gave them something to care about.
Yeah, and if my grandpa had tits he'd be my grandma. At some point teams in these markets have to perform and not just occupy some geographic location and just say "we have potential!!!" over and over again.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 14, 2013, 12:29:46 PM
Yeah, and if my grandpa had tits he'd be my grandma. At some point teams in these markets have to perform and not just occupy some geographic location and just say "we have potential!!!" over and over again.
Stunningly, you're missing the point.
The MVC isn't looking at Loyola because it's a successful, winning program. They're looking at Loyola because it's a toehold in the Chicago market. Something Valpo is not.
You think it just a coincidence that the other school that reportedly got the strongest consideration was UIC?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2013, 01:01:26 PM
Stunningly, you're missing the point.
The MVC isn't looking at Loyola because it's a successful, winning program. They're looking at Loyola because it's a toehold in the Chicago market. Something Valpo is not.
You think it just a coincidence that the other school that reportedly got the strongest consideration was UIC?
Stunningly, you can't read cause I said this:
"At some point teams in these markets have to perform and not just occupy some geographic location and just say "we have potential!!!" over and over again."
This is the same type of logic that the A10 used when inviting Fordham to join. Who cares if you are in a market, when you clearly make no investment to improve your program, no one is going to watch you anyway. And it doesn't have to be Valpo...it could be Wright State...or Detroit...whatever... all are better choices for the MVC than Loyola.
Let's hope this puts Loyola on the right track.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 14, 2013, 02:20:28 PM
Stunningly, you can't read cause I said this:
"At some point teams in these markets have to perform and not just occupy some geographic location and just say "we have potential!!!" over and over again."
This is the same type of logic that the A10 used when inviting Fordham to join. Who cares if you are in a market, when you clearly make no investment to improve your program, no one is going to watch you anyway. And it doesn't have to be Valpo...it could be Wright State...or Detroit...whatever... all are better choices for the MVC than Loyola.
I can't believe you don't know this but Loyola has invested significantly in its program in recent years.
The Gentile Center is still relatively modern (opened in '96) and has undergone major upgrades over the past couple of years, including new seating, new scoreboard and video boards, new floor, new concourse, etc.
Also, in 2011, Loyola opened a $26 million athletics facility including training/weight rooms, study halls for athletes, locker rooms and a lounge for the hoops teams, athletic dept. offices and more. Basically their version of The Al, minus the arena component.
But yeah, you're right, other than spending about $30 million on athletics the last few years, they're clearly making no investment to improve the program.
Well, I guess I simply made an assumption since their "investment" hasn't yielded anything by way of results.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 14, 2013, 02:49:20 PM
Well, I guess I simply made an assumption since their "investment" hasn't yielded anything by way of results.
It did get them an upgrade to a bigger and more respected conference, so I would consider that pretty positive results.
Quote from: forgetful on April 14, 2013, 03:17:16 PM
It did get them an upgrade to a bigger and more respected conference, so I would consider that pretty positive results.
I guess if you view conference membership more important than winning on the floor.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 14, 2013, 03:19:03 PM
I guess if you view conference membership more important than winning on the floor.
Give it time.
Loyola in the past has settled for mediocrity and let lousy coaches like Larry Farmer and Jim Whitesell flounder for too long.
Moser seems to have things heading in the right direction (eight more wins last year than his first season) and they've got former Kansas commit (and MU recruit) Milton Doyle coming next year.
Does this move finally give Dayton their opportunity to get into a league more fitting their stature? Or does the Horizon League look at someone more prestigious, if such a program could ever exist?
Davidson to the A-10 is next
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 14, 2013, 04:50:21 PM
Does this move finally give Dayton their opportunity to get into a league more fitting their stature? Or does the Horizon League look at someone more prestigious, if such a program could ever exist?
Indeed.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 14, 2013, 02:39:03 PM
I can't believe you don't know this but Loyola has invested significantly in its program in recent years.
The Gentile Center is still relatively modern (opened in '96) and has undergone major upgrades over the past couple of years, including new seating, new scoreboard and video boards, new floor, new concourse, etc.
Also, in 2011, Loyola opened a $26 million athletics facility including training/weight rooms, study halls for athletes, locker rooms and a lounge for the hoops teams, athletic dept. offices and more. Basically their version of The Al, minus the arena component.
But yeah, you're right, other than spending about $30 million on athletics the last few years, they're clearly making no investment to improve the program.
For anyone that has followed Loyola the past decade this should come as no surprise. Ever since Fr. Garanzini has taken over as President of the university (He is also the Secretary for Jesuit Higher Education worldwide), the school has done a 180 from the 90's and early 2000's when the school was struggling financially and had low enrollment to become currently the largest Jesuit school in the country and in the middle of a $500 million renovation of the entire campus that includes the athletic improvements mentioned above.
With the opportunity to now focus on athletics, hopefully they can see a similar turnaround. Loyola is still the only school in Illinois to win a national championship in Mens Basketball and when talking to alumni from that era, they all remember the rivalry with Marquette. As someone who grew up rooting for Marquette basketball, I always laughed at the idea of my alma mater being on the same level as Marquette. Hopefully this move will be another step in trying to get back to that level and Loyola doesn't just turn into DePaul and becoming the default Chicago school of the conference and joke of the conference.
The Gentile Center is pretty nice. Saw them play Butler a couple years ago. I'd love to see the Ramblers on the upswing.