http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/04/11/report-uwgb-opens-investigation-of-basketball-coach-after-abuse-claim/
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130411/GPG020110/130411080/UWGB-opens-investigation-men-s-basketball-coach?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7C&gcheck=1&nclick_check=1
The University of Wisconsin-Green Bay has opened an investigation of men's basketball coach Brian Wardle after the school received a complaint from the parents of a former player, alleging mistreatment.
University chancellor Thomas Harden told Press-Gazette Media today that an outside agency will look into the accusations made by the parents of freshman center Ryan Bross.
"We're acting quickly," Harden said. "We're going to move assertively and bring this to a conclusion as fast as we can."
Bross, a 7-foot-1 walk-on from Menomonee Falls who redshirted this past season, decided to leave the program after the season and plans to transfer to Concordia University in Mequon next season. The university did not immediately respond to an open records request asking for a copy of the letter. Harden did not discuss the specifics of the letter but said it was the genesis for investigating a claim of mistreatment of a player.
"I think that would categorize the complaint," Harden said.
Sources familiar with the complaint said the accusation alleged verbal and emotional mistreatment by Wardle but not physical abuse.
Wardle, who will be allowed to work during the investigation, did not return messages left on his cell phone. UWGB athletics director Ken Bothof was out of town and did not respond to a voice message or an email.
Bross' mother, Brooke, would not reveal the specifics of the letter.
"We don't want this to be tried in the media," she said. "We want the investigation to run its course."
Harden said he received the letter on Tuesday evening.
"Wednesday morning I responded to them with an email saying that I consider their allegations serious, and that we would start an investigation," Harden said. "How long will it take? We don't really know. We intend to start it right away, but we don't know just how long it will take. We'll move as quickly as we can, but we'll be thorough, too."
Since mid-February, four players have left the UWGB program. Guard Kam Cerroni left on Feb. 14, citing "differences" with Wardle. Shortly after the season, Bross and fellow freshman Nick Arenz announced their decisions to leave. On Monday, junior guard Sultan Muhammad was granted his release. Muhammad said he wanted to transfer closer to his home in Grand Rapids, Mich., because of a family matter, although he declined to discuss the matter.
When asked whether the letter he received was an isolated incident or a sign of a larger problem, Harden said: "I think that's what we're going to determine with the investigation. I don't want to make an assumption one way or the other. We don't have widespread complaints or allegations. We have this allegation, the complaint that I got Tuesday night, which we do think we need to check out, and we're going to do it really well."
This comes a week after Rutgers University fired men's basketball coach Mike Rice after video surfaced of him verbally and physically abusing players. Rice was fired on April 4 and the school's athletic director Tim Pernetti, who initially suspended Rice for the offenses last season, was forced out.
Harden said the Rutgers incident had no bearing on his decision to investigate the men's basketball program.
"That's a great question, but we would take this seriously despite what's happened someplace else," Harden said. "We're acting quickly. We're going to move assertively and bring this to a conclusion as fast as we can."
Wardle has a 47-49 record in three seasons. He is coming off his best season, going 18-16 and finishing tied for third in the Horizon League.
He has four more years remaining on his contract, which pays him a base salary of $133,132 plus another $70,000 in extra income.
Alright Fess up Sultan/Skink... you had mentioned you did not want him to coach MU. Is this why?
Rice must have influenced him...or vice-versa?
I wonder if after Rice got nailed if we'll see more and more of these
OK, so the behavior of Rice was abhorrent and in no way should any institution tolerate coaches abusing players in any way.
But what the hell is "emotional mistreatment?" Could there be a possibly more vague/nebulous accusation?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 11, 2013, 05:41:43 PM
OK, so the behavior of Rice was abhorrent and in no way should any institution tolerate coaches abusing players in any way.
But what the hell is "emotional mistreatment?" Could there be a possibly more vague/nebulous accusation?
Clearly, Wardle raised his voice and hurt the feelings of that precious little angel...after his parents spent 18 years telling him how amazingly perfect he was. Welcome to America 2013: Home of the participation medal.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 11, 2013, 05:41:43 PM
OK, so the behavior of Rice was abhorrent and in no way should any institution tolerate coaches abusing players in any way.
But what the hell is "emotional mistreatment?" Could there be a possibly more vague/nebulous accusation?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying coaches should treat their players like Rice did, but coach-player relationship is oftentimes adversarial and sometimes borderline hostile. In the post-Rice era do we set the coach behavior standard to choirboy?
Quote from: Groin_pull on April 11, 2013, 05:47:33 PM
Clearly, Wardle raised his voice and hurt the feelings of that precious little angel...after his parents spent 18 years telling him how amazingly perfect he was. Welcome to America 2013: Home of the participation medal.
Did you steal that post from Keefe?
People gonna start cashing in on Rice's mistakes. Maybe they start to imagine and think that coaches yelling at them is unacceptable and on the same level as Rice's antics... ::)
Political correctness knows no ends. Time to investigate the college fencing teams, golf perhaps?
Quote from: LittleMurs on April 11, 2013, 05:51:45 PM
Did you steal that post from Keefe?
LOL My first thought also!
The school is doing the right thing especial with the atmosphere surrounding colleges sports in the past year -- Penn State, Rutgers, etc.
Coaches yell at players -- they always have. The question is was the line crossed -- racial slurs, homophobic, demeaning or vulgar language?
The danger is jumping to conclusions and that are not fair. Chancellor Harden did exactly what he should do. Hats off to responding immediately to clear the air. It is responsive to the student and parent, to Coach Wardle and short circuits those who would take cheap shots, at the student, coach or school.
Soccer Mom Merica strikes again
Quote from: Groin_pull on April 11, 2013, 05:47:33 PM
Clearly, Wardle raised his voice and hurt the feelings of that precious little angel...after his parents spent 18 years telling him how amazingly perfect he was. Welcome to America 2013: Home of the participation medal.
So true....entitlement.
The Mike Deane coaching tree is shrinking...
Quote from: Groin_pull on April 11, 2013, 05:47:33 PM
Clearly, Wardle raised his voice and hurt the feelings of that precious little angel...after his parents spent 18 years telling him how amazingly perfect he was. Welcome to America 2013: Home of the participation medal.
Roger Pussification.
(http://ibernadas.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/pee.jpg)
This used to be a great country.
Perhaps if someone hurt his feelings earlier and more often he wouldn't be 7'1" and only able to walk-on and had redshirt at GB and now leave for Concordia.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 11, 2013, 05:31:44 PM
Alright Fess up Sultan/Skink... you had mentioned you did not want him to coach MU. Is this why?
Yep. And it goes deeper than just Bross. I'm all for not jumping to conclusions, but let's make sure we simply label the player a p*ssy too.
The strongest steel is forged in the hottest fire
(http://www.swampstallionfishingadventures.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DrillInstructor.jpg)
(http://img.izifunny.com/pics/2013/20130211/640/marine-drill-instructors-screaming-faces-24-pics_3.jpg)
(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_action/7025610.jpeg)
(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/65/6514/KWP6100Z/posters/verbal-bullying.jpg)
I pray to God this trend doesn't fu(k up Buzz' Boot Camp program. Seems to pay dividends every year. There's a reason all of his teams are labeled tough. These guys don't show up like that. They are forged then molded.
And I am guessing Buzz' troops hear language their mother's never used. Would hate for just one disgruntled guy to blow the whistle. The creeping Pussification of America is disturbing.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 11, 2013, 06:29:58 PM
Yep. And it goes deeper than just Bross. I'm all for not jumping to conclusions, but let's make sure we simply label the player a p*ssy too.
Made me think of this post (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=37774.0) and whether the comments about McGuire calling Majerus "Whitey you're one of the [expletive] worst players I ever had on one of my teams, you ought to think about quiting" will now lead to an investigation. I have no knowledge of the situation and having 4 players leave since February could be the sign of a serious problem or the sign of a welcomed mutiny, but certainly its enough for us all to reserve judgment. Anyone on the boards a former assistant under Wardle or Dean that have input on what type of system he might have been brought-up in or ran?
As an aside, if you haven't listened to the entire clip from Majerus' "I remember" you should (particularly the ending where he talks about offering to resign if his Utah St. player called an opposing player a racist term) as it will reaffirm your faith that there are terrific people in coaching. People who we want having a hand in developing these student-athletes. I love the lighthearted banter about Gumbel telling him his friends may call him Whitey, but he wasn't going to. Hope more stories and videos like the "I remember" video start making the news again soon regarding coaches and sports in general.
Agree 1000000% Keefe
Quote from: keefe on April 11, 2013, 07:01:40 PM
I pray to God this trend doesn't fu(k up Buzz' Boot Camp program. Seems to pay dividends every year. There's a reason all of his teams are labeled tough. These guys don't show up like that. They are forged then molded.
And I am guessing Buzz' troops hear language their mother's never used. Would hate for just one disgruntled guy to blow the whistle. The creeping Pussification of America is disturbing.
If what I have been told is true about Wardle, then this isn't about forging the strongest steel through fire. It's more of a Captain Queeg type scenario.
Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on April 11, 2013, 06:03:51 PM
The school is doing the right thing especial with the atmosphere surrounding colleges sports in the past year -- Penn State, Rutgers, etc.
Coaches yell at players -- they always have. The question is was the line crossed -- racial slurs, homophobic, demeaning or vulgar language?
The danger is jumping to conclusions and that are not fair. Chancellor Harden did exactly what he should do. Hats off to responding immediately to clear the air. It is responsive to the student and parent, to Coach Wardle and short circuits those who would take cheap shots, at the student, coach or school.
What is the coach allowed to say then? "That wasn't very good, try again Joey!"
These kids are getting free educations (tens if not hundred hundreds of thousands of dollars) to work their ass off for the basketball team. The coach should be allowed to light a fire under these kids.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 11, 2013, 05:41:43 PM
But what the hell is "emotional mistreatment?" Could there be a possibly more vague/nebulous accusation?
no kidding - cant judge well without the facts but it seems a description of something frivolous
Wardle could probably still be playing in overseas. Given his competitive nature, I would imagine it is tough to not get in there and mix it up with fellow adults.
What the heck is "pussification" supposed to mean?!? That if you're not "blessed" with a penis and an overload of testosterone that you're some sort of 2nd class citizen?
I pray none of you have daughters. Or mothers.
I'm a fairly politically correct guy, and I would not tolerate my coach ever being physically abusive ... but sheesh.
Coaches yell. Coaches swear. Coaches tell their athletes to "man up," and do it quite loudly.
If you don't like it, join the debate team.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on April 11, 2013, 09:31:19 PM
no kidding - cant judge well without the facts but it seems a description of something frivolous
I'm not saying this kid is soft or Wardle did nothing wrong, etc. I don't know. None of us know (though surely some self-styled insiders will pretend otherwise).
But "emotional mistreatment" is such a vague, subjective accusation that I'm not sure Wardle has any chance to fairly defend himself. Whereas Rice's abuse was obvious - kind of hard to label throwing a ball at someone's head something other than abuse - how does one objectively determine emotional mistreatment? Did Buzz emotionally mistreat Davante by mocking his weight? Or other players he's said are no good? It's so, so subjective in a player-coach relationship.
And the worst part of this is that Wardle may never live this down, whether he did something wrong or not.
Curious, by the way about who leaked this. Either Wardle has some enemies in the athletic dept. or Mrs. Bross is being awfully disingenuous.
Quote from: Benny B on April 11, 2013, 10:02:29 PM
What the heck is "pussification" supposed to mean?!? That if you're not "blessed" with a penis and an overload of testosterone that you're some sort of 2nd class citizen?
I pray none of you have daughters. Or mothers.
You are terribly obtuse in your logic, Benny. You confuse physical difference with intrinsic value and moral indignation over eroding values.
I have a mother who taught me chivalry. I was expected to open doors, pull chairs, listen attentively, and most importantly treat all women with respect and dignity. Her father, brothers and husband were gentlemen and she expected the same from her sons. Her brothers and husband went to war several times and all served with honor in combat. They acted as men.
Our daughter was graduated with honors from Columbia and is beginning her graduate studies at Harvard this August. She worked at the Clinton Foundation for two years and has interned at the Gates Foundation. She worked as a volunteer in refugee camps in the Horn of Africa and joined her aunt, a surgeon, on Médecins Sans Frontières missions in Sri Lanka and Nepal. We taught her that gender is never a barrier and she has lived her life accordingly. She has thrived in difficult environments and has never let matters of gender, race, age, or nationality be an issue - for herself or in others.
Both my mother and daughter are educated, accomplished women who recognize and celebrate differences in gender. Because they exist. And that is a very good thing. Both have expected me to behave as a gentleman and as a man as circumstances have warranted. Anyone who argues otherwise is a fool. And a coward - both intellectually and ethically.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 11, 2013, 08:54:40 PM
If what I have been told is true about Wardle, then this isn't about forging the strongest steel through fire. It's more of a Captain Queeg type scenario.
Sans Mike Scioscia, this describes almost every coach I have ever worked with or for....the Captain Queeg type.
"BROSS! DID ANYONE EVER TELL YOU THAT YOU PLAY LIKE THE DAMN TRADITIONAL THAT YOU ARE?!"
Quote from: AlienWarrior on April 11, 2013, 05:55:03 PM
Political correctness knows no ends. Time to investigate the college fencing teams, golf perhaps?
What does politics have to do with this?
Quote from: Avenue Commons on April 12, 2013, 12:22:26 AM
What does politics have to do with this?
Avenue, you must be kidding? This is entirely about politics. You don't think Donna Shalala has a political agenda? The emasculation of America is entirely politically motivated. The growing sense of entitlement will destroy this republic yet.
Quote from: keefe on April 11, 2013, 11:07:52 PM
You are terribly obtuse in your logic, Benny. You confuse physical difference with intrinsic value and moral indignation over eroding values.
I have a mother who taught me chivalry. I was expected to open doors, pull chairs, listen attentively, and most importantly treat all women with respect and dignity. Her father, brothers and husband were gentlemen and she expected the same from her sons. Her brothers and husband went to war several times and all served with honor in combat. They acted as men.
Our daughter was graduated with honors from Columbia and is beginning her graduate studies at Harvard this August. She worked at the Clinton Foundation for two years and has interned at the Gates Foundation. She worked as a volunteer in refugee camps in the Horn of Africa and joined her aunt, a surgeon, on Médecins Sans Frontières missions in Sri Lanka and Nepal. We taught her that gender is never a barrier and she has lived her life accordingly. She has thrived in difficult environments and has never let matters of gender, race, age, or nationality be an issue - for herself or in others.
Both my mother and daughter are educated, accomplished women who recognize and celebrate differences in gender. Because they exist. And that is a very good thing. Both have expected me to behave as a gentleman and as a man as circumstances have warranted. Anyone who argues otherwise is a fool. And a coward - both intellectually and ethically.
Quite the diversion... but when you're using a variation of female anatomy slang in a pejorative manner, you're not celebrating gender.
Quote from: keefe on April 12, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
Avenue, you must be kidding? This is entirely about politics. You don't think Donna Shalala has a political agenda? The emasculation of America is entirely politically motivated. The growing sense of entitlement will destroy this republic yet.
Jesus...what the hell is it about this place that they have to be completely hyperbolic about everything? This isn't about male emasculation, etc.
Here is what the report is going to find IMO. He did nothing that will require his termination. However, I think he isn't a very good coach and I think some of the ways he deals with his players is part of that.
Quote from: Benny B on April 12, 2013, 06:15:51 AM
Quite the diversion... but when you're using a variation of female anatomy slang in a pejorative manner, you're not celebrating gender.
Benny - just admit your a kitten! and wrong...
Quote from: MU86NC on April 12, 2013, 07:59:12 AM
Benny - just admit your a kitten! and wrong...
How can his opinion be "wrong?"
God I love when topics like this bring out the pseudo tough guys.
I'm going after my 8th grade basketball coach.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 12, 2013, 08:01:23 AM
How can his opinion be "wrong?"
God I love when topics like this bring out the pseudo tough guys.
I think having Benny, upon hearing some variation of the word "kitten," rushing to the defense of wronged women everywhere is pseudo something. Pseudo tough guy? Probably not. But what a hero he is.
Demeaning or vulgar language is not crossing the line. I guess coaches should now have certificates they can hand out at practice that say "you tried hard, good for you". Come on
I attended an EEOC seminar for work last year. One of the speakers stated "many of us have experienced a$$hole bosses. Unfortunately, it's not illegal to be an a$$hole."
+1
Now, where's my participation award?
My dad was a coach at a variety of levels, including high school varsity baseball, for many years. He was old school in a lot of ways.
As a kid, I was at most practices and saw him yell at kids, throw guys out of practice, kick kids off of the team, etc.
BUT, he NEVER demeaned a kid, swore AT a kid, used racial, ethnic or gay slurs, etc. etc.
I realize D1 athletics is incredibly intense (WAY more than HS athletics)... but the idea that a coach HAS to treat players poorly to motivate them is off of the charts stupid.
Can aspects of a coach/player relationship be misinterpreted or taken out of context? Absolutely.
Do coaches need to bully kids to "get the most out of them"? No. Nope. Nada. No way.
Quote from: Sir Lawrence on April 12, 2013, 09:12:56 AM
I attended an EEOC seminar for work last year. One of the speakers stated "many of us have experienced a$$hole bosses. Unfortunately, it's not illegal to be an a$$hole."
As someone who deals with EEOC on a very regular basis, I don't often agree with them. I do agree with the speaker's legal analysis, but would substitute, "Thank God" for "unfortunately."
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 12, 2013, 09:24:51 AM
My dad was a coach at a variety of levels, including high school varsity baseball, for many years. He was old school in a lot of ways.
As a kid, I was at most practices and saw him yell at kids, throw guys out of practice, kick kids off of the team, etc.
BUT, he NEVER demeaned a kid, swore AT a kid, used racial, ethnic or gay slurs, etc. etc.
I realize D1 athletics is incredibly intense (WAY more than HS athletics)... but the idea that a coach HAS to treat players poorly to motivate them is off of the charts stupid.
Can aspects of a coach/player relationship be misinterpreted or taken out of context? Absolutely.
Do coaches need to bully kids to "get the most out of them"? No. Nope. Nada. No way.
This^^^.
Coaches should be tough, but not abusive. And we don't know exactly what went on, which is why there is an investigation. This isn't about a "pussification" of America. Even in that Glorious 1950's America that never existed, there were still lines that coaches shouldn't cross. If one of those lines were crossed (not saying it was), action should be taken.
Quote from: Benny B on April 12, 2013, 06:15:51 AM
Quite the diversion... but when you're using a variation of female anatomy slang in a pejorative manner, you're not celebrating gender.
Nice to see someone has their head on straight. God forbid that not every man is brimming with machismo and ready to go to war. Insulting a man by comparing him to a woman is demeaning to everyone.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 12, 2013, 09:24:51 AM
My dad was a coach at a variety of levels, including high school varsity baseball, for many years. He was old school in a lot of ways.
As a kid, I was at most practices and saw him yell at kids, throw guys out of practice, kick kids off of the team, etc. BUT, he NEVER demeaned a kid, swore AT a kid, used racial, ethnic or gay slurs, etc. etc. I realize D1 athletics is incredibly intense (WAY more than HS athletics)... but the idea that a coach HAS to treat players poorly to motivate them is off of the charts stupid. Can aspects of a coach/player relationship be misinterpreted or taken out of context? Absolutely. Do coaches need to bully kids to "get the most out of them"? No. Nope. Nada. No way.
We had HOF HS baseball coach. Never swore at or abused players, but he was a master motivator. If he thought you were motivated by demeaning you, he did it. He might insinuate that you just weren't up to playing varsity baseball, or many other tricks. A lot of state championships, and a lotta guys that got it, maybe years later, and used the same tools for success in life.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 12, 2013, 09:24:51 AM
My dad was a coach at a variety of levels, including high school varsity baseball, for many years. He was old school in a lot of ways.
As a kid, I was at most practices and saw him yell at kids, throw guys out of practice, kick kids off of the team, etc.
BUT, he NEVER demeaned a kid, swore AT a kid, used racial, ethnic or gay slurs, etc. etc.
I realize D1 athletics is incredibly intense (WAY more than HS athletics)... but the idea that a coach HAS to treat players poorly to motivate them is off of the charts stupid.
Can aspects of a coach/player relationship be misinterpreted or taken out of context? Absolutely.
Do coaches need to bully kids to "get the most out of them"? No. Nope. Nada. No way.
I agree with you that you don't have to treat your players to be successful. That doesn't mean swearing or demeaning them crosses the line of what a coach can't or shouldn't do.
Both of my Alma maters are involved in this story
Bet this isnt the last one of these stories either... Parents trying to capitalize on the fervor of the Rice story to show that their kids were "mistreated" as well.
Fun Fact -one of the other players leaving, Kam Cerroni is from neighboring Sussex. His Dad teaches in the MF School District and is the HS Coach at Sussex.
Quote from: mu-rara on April 12, 2013, 08:44:18 AM
I'm going after my 8th grade basketball coach.
I should sue my little league "coach" for being such a crapbird that I gave up on baseball... unnatural carnal knowledgestick cost me millions...
Quote from: MUFanatic4 on April 12, 2013, 10:08:58 AM
I agree with you that you don't have to treat your players to be successful. That doesn't mean swearing or demeaning them crosses the line of what a coach can't or shouldn't do.
For me, personally, I think demeaning a player crosses the line.
I don't think every coach should be fired for it... but I just think it's a stupid, meatheaded approach to coaching/teaching/motivating.
Coaches should be honest with a player: "You aren't very good right now. You aren't earning your spot. You probably shouldn't be here, etc."
But, don't specifically demean a kid just to motivate him. "You are too fat. You'll never play. You are too slow. You are a waste of space. You are a waste of a scholarship, etc."
I know it's right out of Herb Brooks' coaching manual (love Herb Brooks), but I think there are a lot of other techniques, especially for college athletics where you have these kids for 4 years (theoretically).
That's just me, I guess.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 12, 2013, 10:23:27 AM
For me, personally, I think demeaning a player crosses the line.
I don't think every coach should be fired for it... but I just think it's a stupid, meatheaded approach to coaching/teaching/motivating.
Coaches should be honest with a player: "You aren't very good right now. You aren't earning your spot. You probably shouldn't be here, etc."
But, don't specifically demean a kid just to motivate him. "You are too fat. You'll never play. You are too slow. You are a waste of space. You are a waste of a scholarship, etc."
I know it's right out of Herb Brooks' coaching manual (love Herb Brooks), but I think there are a lot of other techniques, especially for college athletics where you have these kids for 4 years (theoretically).
That's just me, I guess.
I think the people who think demeaning a player isn't bad are the people who are motivated by being demeaned. I know if I heard I was too fat, too slow(which really isn't demeaning) I'd be motivated to show that I was worth it, wasn't slow etc.
Quote from: MUFanatic4 on April 12, 2013, 10:44:29 AM
I think the people who think demeaning a player isn't bad are the people who are motivated by being demeaned. I know if I heard I was too fat, too slow(which really isn't demeaning) I'd be motivated to show that I was worth it, wasn't slow etc.
Totally get it. It's not a perfect science. Lot's of human psychology in play.
I just prefer a more honest approach: "Listen, you're too heavy to be good. You either lose weight, or you aren't going to play." vs "You're a fat-f*cker, and you're never going to play because you drink gravy like it's Gatorade."
Obviously there is a middle ground, but I fear that some coaches think it's ok to bully/demean a kid if it gets the kid to perform.
I think there are better methods, especially if I have a kid for multiple years.
Let's be real - anyone crying that this is some kind of crime against American values/culture is fitting evidence to a foregone conclusion rather than coming to a conclusion based on the evidence. There aren't enough details released on this to even know what really went on.
I also think we have some serious rose-colored glasses on because Wardle has MU connections. I know some defended Rice (which is pretty crazy if you ask me) but to accuse the player of 'cashing in' on the moment when the family is explictly trying to not make this a press event is just boneheaded.
Quote from: akmarq on April 12, 2013, 11:20:29 AM
Let's be real - anyone crying that this is some kind of crime against American values/culture is fitting evidence to a foregone conclusion rather than coming to a conclusion based on the evidence. There aren't enough details released on this to even know what really went on.
I also think we have some serious rose-colored glasses on because Wardle has MU connections. I know some defended Rice (which ought to say enough about) but to accuse the player of 'cashing in' on the moment when the family is explictly trying to not make this a press event is just boneheaded.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
The parents of this guy aren't doing him any favors. The guy is in college and he still has mommy trying to protect him because someone said some mean things. That's the most pathetic part of this whole story . . .
https://twitter.com/K_J_SYKES/status/322474150801334272
Keifer Sykes
@K_J_SYKES 18h Grown men still run behind their parents to solve their problems!
Quote from: MARQCAT on April 11, 2013, 07:11:09 PM
Made me think of this post (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=37774.0) and whether the comments about McGuire calling Majerus "Whitey you're one of the [expletive] worst players I ever had on one of my teams, you ought to think about quiting" will now lead to an investigation. I have no knowledge of the situation and having 4 players leave since February could be the sign of a serious problem or the sign of a welcomed mutiny, but certainly its enough for us all to reserve judgment. Anyone on the boards a former assistant under Wardle or Dean that have input on what type of system he might have been brought-up in or ran?
Majerus never played ball for McGuire, nor did he play in high school. He got the nick name Whitey because of his white/blond hair as a kid and it stuck. He was known as Whitey in high school and college. He was a team manager in both cases.
Quote from: MUeagle05 on April 12, 2013, 11:34:06 AM
The parents of this guy aren't doing him any favors. The guy is in college and he still has mommy trying to protect him because someone said some mean things. That's the most pathetic part of this whole story . . .
There's nothing I despise more when it comes to parenting than 'helicopter' parents... but let's keep in mind that whether that's the case here is merely speculation at this point.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on April 12, 2013, 10:23:27 AM
For me, personally, I think demeaning a player crosses the line.
I don't think every coach should be fired for it... but I just think it's a stupid, meatheaded approach to coaching/teaching/motivating.
Coaches should be honest with a player: "You aren't very good right now. You aren't earning your spot. You probably shouldn't be here, etc."
But, don't specifically demean a kid just to motivate him. "You are too fat. You'll never play. You are too slow. You are a waste of space. You are a waste of a scholarship, etc."
I know it's right out of Herb Brooks' coaching manual (love Herb Brooks), but I think there are a lot of other techniques, especially for college athletics where you have these kids for 4 years (theoretically).
That's just me, I guess.
But isn't determining what's "demeaning" entirely contextual and subjective?
Buzz calling Davante fat is pretty demeaning. But in the context of their relationship, it's probably not seen that way by either guy.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 12, 2013, 12:50:12 PM
But isn't determining what's "demeaning" entirely contextual and subjective?
Buzz calling Davante fat is pretty demeaning. But in the context of their relationship, it's probably not seen that way by either guy.
yea, it's not a perfect science. What is "bullying" anyways?
My response is just based upon my own personal experience (son of a coach) and some of the responses here (ie Kids these days are hairy wet cats!)
I don't like the idea of a coach repeatedly bullying a player, and then writing it off as "trying to toughen him up!". It doesn't have to work like that. That's not the only way to get players to perform. Let's see if we can evolve as coaches and parents.
Quote from: Stronghold on April 11, 2013, 09:04:57 PM
These kids are getting free educations (tens if not hundred hundreds of thousands of dollars) to work their ass off for the basketball team. The coach should be allowed to light a fire under these kids.
Grad Students on a stipend look out. You're getting a free education so prepare to have fires lit under you.
Or does this only apply to those getting free educations who are generating millions of dollars for the university?
Agree with what Gun has said twice before. Coaches can motivate the players without demeaning them or verbally abusing them. Positive motivation should be used. Coaches are considered teachers and have to abide by the same professional ethics. Student players have the right not to play for an abusive coach. Players should check out coaches' behavior before they sign up to play for a school. Yes, coaches and schools are accountable for abusive behavior and it should be enforced.
Certainly do not know many facts here, but what has been published thus far seems silly. Apparently Wardle periodically get frustrated and cursed at some players or hollered at them--this from a former female student manager.
Has anybody seen or heard guys like Calipari, Krzshetski, McGuire, or many other coaches? My favorite scene is when Shurshetski (pronounciation) has his nose and lips all snarled up in a sneer either at a player or a ref in a heated moment of a game. Wonder what he is muttering during those scenes. Classic!
This Wardle thing seems like "Nothing to see here", but I guess we will need to wait until UWGB gets done appointing an investigation committee including students, media, regents, policy experts, security guards, the State AG, the NCAA, etc., and that Committe puts out their findings. Then Wardle will be required to attend some sensitiivity training.
I think this all has to do with relationship. jesmu84 can attest that there are jokes made among some of our friends that would look terrible printed up in a newspaper. That said, if I didn't know someone very well and repeatedly told them they were a selfish ass, it may go over the line.
With regards to coaching and specifically Buzz, he seems to really front-load the relationship building with both the kid and their parent(s), which I expect would allow him to more quickly get to the point where he doesn't have to worry that a particularly crass comment would be interpreted as bullying.
Quote from: keefe on April 11, 2013, 11:07:52 PM
You are terribly obtuse in your logic, Benny. You confuse physical difference with intrinsic value and moral indignation over eroding values.
I have a mother who taught me chivalry. I was expected to open doors, pull chairs, listen attentively, and most importantly treat all women with respect and dignity. Her father, brothers and husband were gentlemen and she expected the same from her sons. Her brothers and husband went to war several times and all served with honor in combat. They acted as men.
Our daughter was graduated with honors from Columbia and is beginning her graduate studies at Harvard this August. She worked at the Clinton Foundation for two years and has interned at the Gates Foundation. She worked as a volunteer in refugee camps in the Horn of Africa and joined her aunt, a surgeon, on Médecins Sans Frontières missions in Sri Lanka and Nepal. We taught her that gender is never a barrier and she has lived her life accordingly. She has thrived in difficult environments and has never let matters of gender, race, age, or nationality be an issue - for herself or in others.
Both my mother and daughter are educated, accomplished women who recognize and celebrate differences in gender. Because they exist. And that is a very good thing. Both have expected me to behave as a gentleman and as a man as circumstances have warranted. Anyone who argues otherwise is a fool. And a coward - both intellectually and ethically.
Well bully for you! That doesn't mean that screaming and throwing temper tantrums is a way to teach or cajole. It just makes the screamer look like a bleeding pretty boy - whether it's a basketball coach or Marine.
As a tutor for the men's team in 1989-90, I have never heard such creative language directed towards the players, and this was during their study sessions. Can't imagine what practice was like.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 12, 2013, 12:50:12 PM
But isn't determining what's "demeaning" entirely contextual and subjective?
Buzz calling Davante fat is pretty demeaning. But in the context of their relationship, it's probably not seen that way by either guy.
Spot on. There are some coaches who are just bullies and there are some parents/critics who are just too sensitive, but that's on the fringe. In general, it's all about context. I think coaches are better "communicators" than they were a generation ago, but some encourage where others push. If a coach isn't over the top I wouldn't rip him for his style - as long as the athlete and his parents knew the score coming in. But it's funny, what's tough love with one of the starters can sometimes feel like abuse to one on the end of the bench.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130415/GPG020110/130415057/UWGB-picks-local-attorney-investigate-Wardle?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|
"My instructions are to start and do it as promptly as possible," Nicks said. "But I don't have a time limit on my report. It really is more important to do a thorough job and get it right."a
This lawyer knows what he's doing. Might as well rip the state off with these circuses.
(http://images.wikia.com/the-house-of-anubis/images/9/9a/Laughing.gif)(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XOu0M8xMC1s/UCZoiFJzZ5I/AAAAAAAACIk/lEDVlpCeazk/s1600/A+negro+racist_laughing.gif)
http://www.youtube.com/v/334mBXSQgpo
http://www.youtube.com/v/vQP-DW-HjHA
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 15, 2013, 08:06:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/v/334mBXSQgpo
http://www.youtube.com/v/vQP-DW-HjHA
A red hot poker...
Second player alleging abuse by Wardle:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22078582/second-green-bay-player-alleges-misconduct-by-coach-brian-wardle (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22078582/second-green-bay-player-alleges-misconduct-by-coach-brian-wardle)
Another reason why u don't recruit soft traditionals from the burbs. Society has become too cozy.
Another player makes a complaint.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22078582/second-green-bay-player-alleges-misconduct-by-coach-brian-wardle
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130415/GPG020101/304150341/Men-s-basketball-2nd-complaint-filed-against-UWGB-s-Wardle?nclick_check=1
Kid had clinical depression and Wardle called it a distraction to the team. Says the criticism of the other player to make a complaint compelled him to come forward. Says he has proof of everything he's saying.
Demonizing a player for having a mental illness is completely out of line. He also says that his complaint is minuscule compared to what other families have. If he's right, I hope most of this board is prepared to eat crow, because Brian Wardle won't be sticking around at UWGB much longer.
I know there is more out there...again...nothing physical.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 16, 2013, 12:08:51 PM
I know there is more out there...again...nothing physical.
Yeah, this could save him. This most recent player claims to have proof for everything he's saying, but I can't imagine what that is.
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 16, 2013, 08:38:49 AM
Another reason why u don't recruit soft traditionals from the burbs. Society has become too cozy.
We don't even know what has happened, and you're already using it as some sort of negative reflection on society?
Quote from: ElDonBDon on April 16, 2013, 11:48:36 AM
Another player makes a complaint.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/22078582/second-green-bay-player-alleges-misconduct-by-coach-brian-wardle
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130415/GPG020101/304150341/Men-s-basketball-2nd-complaint-filed-against-UWGB-s-Wardle?nclick_check=1
Kid had clinical depression and Wardle called it a distraction to the team. Says the criticism of the other player to make a complaint compelled him to come forward. Says he has proof of everything he's saying.
I think he actually said failing to take his prescribed medication and breaking down in a game and having to leave the bench was a distraction. Banning his mom from the teams facebook page and telling his mom she can only deal with Brian Barone (OK that last one is a valid complaint ;D).
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 16, 2013, 08:38:49 AM
Another reason why u don't recruit soft traditionals from the burbs. Society has become too cozy.
Brian Wardle is from one of the most burb-ish burbs in all of burb land.
And he's pretty traditional.
Quote from: indeelaw90 on April 16, 2013, 03:11:11 PM
I think he actually said failing to take his prescribed medication and breaking down in a game and having to leave the bench was a distraction. Banning his mom from the teams facebook page and telling his mom she can only deal with Brian Barone (OK that last one is a valid complaint ;D).
Obviously, Wardle will need sensitivity training and some crash courses in Political Correctness.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 16, 2013, 04:09:36 PM
Brian Wardle is from one of the most burb-ish burbs in all of burb land.
And he's pretty traditional.
There can be tough guys out of the burbs but they're getting more rare. A lot of kids living at home till thirty,etc. A lot has changed in twenty years.
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 16, 2013, 08:38:49 AM
Another reason why u don't recruit soft traditionals from the burbs. Society has become too cozy.
Except Travis Diener....Steve Novak....Mitch McGary....Scott Christopherson.....Brian Wardle.....
Cougill the mother reads like a Black Hawk helicopter and it'd be nice to know for context why Cougill the younger didn't take his medication for those three or four days.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 16, 2013, 04:56:47 PM
Except Travis Diener....Steve Novak....Mitch McGary....Scott Christopherson.....Brian Wardle.....
Neither Scott Christopherson nor Mitch McGary are from the "burbs."
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 16, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
Neither Scott Christopherson nor Mitch McGary are from the "burbs."
Or Diener, for that matter.
Quote from: Terror Skink on April 16, 2013, 05:48:59 PM
Neither Scott Christopherson nor Mitch McGary are from the "burbs."
They aren't from the mean urban streets either. Now, maybe I misunderstood Stone's post, but it sounded to me like he thought kids were too soft today if they were from the burbs. I took that to mean soft if they weren't from the hardened streets of the urban centers, but maybe he truly meant only the burbs. If so, then my apologies. If not, my point was there are many tough kids outside of the cities, some from the burbs and some from the country.
Is it possible that these two just don't have the mental and emotional fortitude necessary to play D1 ball?