http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8545.0
Chicos started up the time machine and I couldn't help myself.
PuertoRicanNightmare
Guest
Sound the alarm!
« on: April 09, 2008, 08:09:05 AM »
Quote
The more I think about this hiring and the more I read about the process, the more flabbergasted I become. I honestly believe it could very well go down as a colossal mistake even greater than that of the Golden Eagles fiasco of 1994.
Seriously, with Chris Lowery reported to be a "backup" choice to Williams (!), and reports that McCaffrey, Bruce Weber and Jim Les all expressed interest and with Tranghese, Cords and former players on our committee, how the HELL did we end up with Buzz Williams?
There is something wrong!
Did Tom Crean teach us nothing about appearances? Did we honestly choose a coach who chooses to shave his head bald and whose greatest professional reference is a skirt-chasing Texan named "Billy" over stealing away the Milwaukee-raised head coach of the University of Illinois?!?
Did we really offer Tony Bennett up to $2 million to be our head coach and then give him only a day to think it over before the rush to get Buzz Williams' signature?
There is no conceivable way that all the individuals mentioned as being involved in this search could be on board with this hire.
Consider that we hired a coach that schools like Dayton, Fordham, St. Louis, St. Bonaventure, Wright St., UIC or even Loyola would not even consider and then tell me it's a good hire. In fact, other than Marquette, I'm not sure what school would have hired this guy!
Consider that our head coach probably isn't qualified to sit next to Bo Ryan as his assistant, much less compete with him for recruits and tell me it's a good hire.
Consider our new head man is scheduled to fly to New Jersey to speak with Bob Hurley about the LOI one of his players signed and consider that Hurley's housekeeper probably has more experience with players and tell me it's a good hire.
Hurley should tell Williams to save the airfare.
Not only should Williams not have been hired, not only should he not have been on the "short list," but he shouldn't have been considered. As soon as he threatened to leave for Indiana, we should have said, "Bye-bye!"
Fr. Wild, our AD and everybody involved in this decision have significantly diminished our program by settling for a guy that – sadly – was seriously asked yesterday if he had to buy a new suit for the press conference.
Not only will this not work. It can't work.
That's precious.
Can't believe we ended up with this stiff!
The upper powers knew what they were doing hiring this nobody obviously.
This should be pinned at the top of this board for the next 5 years.
i admire that he hung himself out there with a strong opinion.
And one year later he came back and said he was wrong. Are you going to dig that up?
Quote from: warrior07 on April 04, 2013, 07:18:52 AM
And one year later he came back and said he was wrong. Are you going to dig that up?
You know damn well no one would.
Didn't most fans basically agree with PRN main point (that hiring Buzz was a terrible decision)?
It would be much more impressive if you could find a thread where someone defended the choice, predicting that in his first 5 years, Buzz would take us to 5 NCAA tournaments, two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight, and a Big East championship.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2013, 07:49:32 AM
Didn't most fans basically agree with PRN main point (that hiring Buzz was a terrible decision)?
It would be much more impressive if you could find a thread where someone defended the choice, predicting that in his first 5 years, Buzz would take us to 5 NCAA tournaments, two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight, and a Big East championship.
Plenty of people who defended the choice.
If by "plenty of people" you mean a very small amount, then you are completely correct.
I thought it was a good decision, only that we had 4 seniors and Lazar coming back who played major minutes. I thought that Buzz could just continue with this group for a season and then who know what was going to happen. I loved the story of Buzz forcing Jerel to do the same move 100 times at his first workout, telling him who was going to be boss.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2013, 07:49:32 AM
Didn't most fans basically agree with PRN main point (that hiring Buzz was a terrible decision)?
I look forward to finally expressing an opinion on April 9th.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2013, 07:49:32 AM
Didn't most fans basically agree with PRN main point (that hiring Buzz was a terrible decision)?
It would be much more impressive if you could find a thread where someone defended the choice, predicting that in his first 5 years, Buzz would take us to 5 NCAA tournaments, two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight, and a Big East championship.
Making a bold prediction of "Terrible hire!" or "Great Hire!" are equally stupid. I don't think anybody deserves credit for a wild ass guess.
We (people not at MU) simply didn't have enough information (at the time) to know how it was going to work out. If you read that thread, several people said that.
Buzz had a nice assistant coach resume, but his experience at New Orleans was a mixed bag, and he didn't have a lot of experience in the mid-west.
Turns out Buzz is VERY bright and adapts very well. Great hire by MU.
Quote from: MURFC on April 04, 2013, 08:02:58 AM
Plenty of people who defended the choice.
I'm not right about a lot of things, but I was on board with Buzz from the get-go.
I'm not ashamed to admit I said many of the same things in the wake of Buzz' hiring. Then I watched the lackluster Dayton game in person his first year and thought it was even worse that I expected. After that team gelled second semester, I was singing a much different tune. They had clearly bought in and he was utilizing all of the amigos to the best of their abilities. I listened to him at press conferences after both wins and losses and I was sold. Then the midgets year happened and I was a card-carrying Buzz evangelist. He has maximized every roster he has had at MU and been more than accountable on the recruiting trail. He's not perfect (no coach is), but he's perfect for MU.
I honestly don't recall what my initial reaction was. Probably a bit of disappointment as well...until his introductory press conference. I still remember his comment that as long as he is here, the program would always be about the players. At that point I was pretty well hooked. In retrospect, that was quite the opposite of his predecessor, I don't suspect that is necessarily what I was thinking at the time. While his star has certainly been on the rise, he has stayed true to that, and I suspect he always will.
I was never anti-Buzz, cause I wasn't completely aware of his background and such. I do remember being disappointed only in the fact that, the only thing that is cool about losing a great coach when you are a good program, is the potential cache of the new hire. Kind of like breaking up with a gf and suddenly seeing who you could potentially date now. So from that perspective, I can see how people were disappointed that we wouldn't get a "name" of some sort.
I can say, I was thankful then, and 50X more thankful now, that we didn't get Chris Lowery.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 04, 2013, 07:49:32 AM
Didn't most fans basically agree with PRN main point (that hiring Buzz was a terrible decision)?
It would be much more impressive if you could find a thread where someone defended the choice, predicting that in his first 5 years, Buzz would take us to 5 NCAA tournaments, two Sweet Sixteens, an Elite Eight, and a Big East championship.
My general take was wait and see... that this was a bold choice and thus the selection committee really must believe in him. That this was not the safe choice of hiring a mid-major coach and then no one would question the AD if it turned out badly. I remember a lot of people mentioning the guy from SIU and I was not for that hire of a somewhat successful mid-major on the decline... so I had a feeling that the AD must know something to not go with a safe pick.
Cottingham's job was on the line for the pick of Buzz, it would not have been for a pick of a "name" mid-major coach. Did I see Buzz doing as well as he has done? No! Let's face it, this program is now elite and Buzz has taken us over the hump to a level not seen since the 1970's. Buzz has just started to earn the recognition and respect that will allow his recruiting to step up a notch. He now has a reputation to recruit from and not just a promise and faith.
When Buzz first took over, there was a major learning curve with the media. After his first couple of post game interviews, I was really wondering... but he learned quickly and someone helped him out with how he appeared/presented in front of a camera.
One of my smart friends made the point at the time of the hiring that Buzz could have been a hot name.
Before Billy the Kid was run out of UK, he was killing at at A&M and Buzz was a big part of that success. Buzz chose to parlay that into UNO. Had he stuck with Billy through the UK hiring, Buzz could have been the Tom Crean, Quinn Synder "sexy" assistant hire of that time. Imagine Buzz recruiting as an Asst at UK?
It's not like Buzzard was a AAU / HS guy pulled up to D1. He was already a top assistant at a school that was winning (A&M). People sometimes act like we hired Scott Monarch.
Imagine if Crean had stayed and Buzz was a long term assistant with Crean. I would think Crean and Buzz would have gotten us to the current level of success and maybe further.
Now, Buzz has done it on his own, so it all worked out for us. Buzz now has the rep to keep us at an elite status and make some runs at the Final Four.
We are happy and Indiana is happy. Funny how it all worked out for both of us in the end.
I don't recall if I was posting here yet or not, but I remember being fine with the hire and a little relieved that we didn't have to sign a huge long-term contract to get someone here. If Buzz didn't work out, it'd be relatively easy to let him go and his recruiting resume seemed to show that we'd at least have some fun athletes to watch while he was here.
I must not be as smart as most people here because I assumed that the board and AD knew more about Buzz than I did, especially to make such an unpopular hire. You don't have to know much to choose Sean Miller if you can get him (and he'd have been great, too), but to hire Buzz with the lack of cache he had at the time took balls and some actual homework and insight.
I'm just so damn happy the guy is our coach
Quote from: GOO on April 04, 2013, 10:11:25 AM
Imagine if Crean had stayed and Buzz was a long term assistant with Crean. I would think Crean and Buzz would have gotten us to the current level of success and maybe further.
Now, Buzz has done it on his own, so it all worked out for us. Buzz now has the rep to keep us at an elite status and make some runs at the Final Four.
We are happy and Indiana is happy. Funny how it all worked out for both of us in the end.
Seeing how different Buzz's philosophy seems to be from TC's (spotlight on the kids v him, sub patterns, etc) a part of me wonders how long he'd have worked for him if TC had stayed at MU.
Crean doesn't make my list of "dream bosses"
This stuff is getting really old and boring. I just may go to the Scoop suggestion section and request that they create a new section titled the SUPERBOR since this thread does not even belong in the Superbar.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on April 04, 2013, 10:16:44 AM
Seeing how different Buzz's philosophy seems to be from TC's (spotlight on the kids v him, sub patterns, etc) a part of me wonders how long he'd have worked for him if TC had stayed at MU.
Crean doesn't make my list of "dream bosses"
Agreed, except that Buzz wasn't a real hot commodity at that time, as I recall. And as has since come out, he had a house down south and a house in Milwaukee and was looking to stay in Milwaukee and not follow Crean to Indiana.
Im just seeing this now. I was at a water park in Lake Geneva with Hoopalop and his family. Hes a wonderful guy, but couldnt go on the big slides on account of the 48 inch height requirement. Poor guy was heartbroken, but his kids waved to him on their way down.
I was WAY off on a lot of things in this post...including (maybe especially) tone...but reading it 5 years later I still think a lot of it was dead on accurate. Lets face it, nobody knew Buzz Williams was Al McGuire II.
I love Buzz and couldn't be happier that we lucked out and Marquette is luck as hell to have him!
Thanks to the poster who started this thread by looking back at a 5 year old post. Do yourself a favor, make this the last time you emulate Chicos!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 04, 2013, 06:47:07 PM
Im just seeing this now. I was at a water park in Lake Geneva with Hoopalop and his family. Hes a wonderful guy, but couldnt go on the big slides on account of the 48 inch height requirement. Poor guy was heartbroken, but his kids waved to him on their way down.
I was WAY off on a lot of things in this post...including (maybe especially) tone...but reading it 5 years later I still think a lot of it was dead on accurate. Lets face it, nobody knew Buzz Williams was Al McGuire II.
I love Buzz and couldn't be happier that we lucked out and Marquette is luck as hell to have him!
Thanks to the poster who started this thread by looking back at a 5 year old post. Do yourself a favor, make this the last time you emulate Chicos!
That's quite the yarn you spun.
What's the water displacement for you these days?
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Cmcwp1PmWb4/TEQwZ7NUWkI/AAAAAAAAAJA/WLDW1WdTRdg/s1600/fat_guy_tsunami_pool.jpg)
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 04, 2013, 06:47:07 PM
Im just seeing this now. I was at a water park in Lake Geneva with Hoopalop and his family. Hes a wonderful guy, but couldnt go on the big slides on account of the 48 inch height requirement. Poor guy was heartbroken, but his kids waved to him on their way down.
I was WAY off on a lot of things in this post...including (maybe especially) tone...but reading it 5 years later I still think a lot of it was dead on accurate. Lets face it, nobody knew Buzz Williams was Al McGuire II.
I love Buzz and couldn't be happier that we lucked out and Marquette is luck as hell to have him!
Thanks to the poster who started this thread by looking back at a 5 year old post. Do yourself a favor, make this the last time you emulate Chicos!
Were guys joined by some "Real" military guys?
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_435/1252349893r911UM.jpg)
Quote from: keefe on April 04, 2013, 07:06:18 PM
Were guys joined by some "Real" military guys?
(http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_435/1252349893r911UM.jpg)
You mean, white trash? Right Hog?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 04, 2013, 07:17:40 PM
You mean, white trash? Right Hog?
(http://www.dalsgaard.eu/2010-10-07.Screenshots.DCS.A-10C.Sim.Beta.build/images/DCS.A-10C.sim.beta.build.032.by.Soeren.Dalsgaard.jpg)
Fun in Afghanistan
(http://whitetrashrepairs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/6469.jpg)
Fun in California
The trolling gets so irritating some times, and by some times I mean all the time. Thread to thread, post to post just never ends.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 04, 2013, 06:47:07 PM
Im just seeing this now. I was at a water park in Lake Geneva with Hoopalop and his family. Hes a wonderful guy, but couldnt go on the big slides on account of the 48 inch height requirement. Poor guy was heartbroken, but his kids waved to him on their way down.
I was WAY off on a lot of things in this post...including (maybe especially) tone...but reading it 5 years later I still think a lot of it was dead on accurate. Lets face it, nobody knew Buzz Williams was Al McGuire II.
I love Buzz and couldn't be happier that we lucked out and Marquette is luck as hell to have him!
Thanks to the poster who started this thread by looking back at a 5 year old post. Do yourself a favor, make this the last time you emulate Chicos!
I was just thinking back to the coaching change after I saw Chico's post with three or four links to the time machine. I remember a lot of unhappy people and I decided to look back. Obviously, PRN was leading the charge in the thread that I pasted but the majority weren't on board with him in that thread. The funny part is that Chicos thought we jumped on Buzz too soon but PRN couldn't help jumping on Chicos.
I probably wouldn't have started this thread if I hadn't remembered how PRN was always foaming at the mouth about Crean and Golden Eagles(I'm still a Warrior). When he wasn't foaming, he would pump up Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl.
He was right about Bo as Crean still can't even sniff his jock. What can you say about Pearl?
I called him out because he went after Buzz and the administration without any real knowledge. I think a lot of people understood that Buzz was a great recruiter and the administration knew more about him personally. Many of us were worried that we needed to keep the boat afloat due to loss of incoming recruits and the fact we were losing a very strong senior class the following spring. I guess it's hard to believe someone might know more than yourself.
I'm a fan and I don't know anything about hiring a coach but we seem to have survived. No one would have predicted our current success with Buzz or any high profile coach that doesn't cheat.
PRN hasn't changed his colors either as he comes out swinging at Chicos much like he went after Buzz and his bald head. Next thing you know we have a thread about people being too short or too fat.
I'm not a Chicos sympathizer but all you need to know about PRN is that he likes to look at the negative side of things and has no room for opinions different than his own. PRN deserves to be called out due to the fact that he was a bully of MUSCOOP and completely wrong.
Not only will this not work. It can't work.
Quote from: 77fan88warrior on April 04, 2013, 09:48:50 PM
I was just thinking back to the coaching change after I saw Chico's post with three or four links to the time machine. I remember a lot of unhappy people and I decided to look back. Obviously, PRN was leading the charge in the thread that I pasted but the majority weren't on board with him in that thread. The funny part is that Chicos thought we jumped on Buzz too soon but PRN couldn't help jumping on Chicos.
I probably wouldn't have started this thread if I hadn't remembered how PRN was always foaming at the mouth about Crean and Golden Eagles(I'm still a Warrior). When he wasn't foaming, he would pump up Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl.
He was right about Bo as Crean still can't even sniff his jock. What can you say about Pearl?
I called him out because he went after Buzz and the administration without any real knowledge. I think a lot of people understood that Buzz was a great recruiter and the administration knew more about him personally. Many of us were worried that we needed to keep the boat afloat due to loss of incoming recruits and the fact we were losing a very strong senior class the following spring. I guess it's hard to believe someone might know more than yourself.
I'm a fan and I don't know anything about hiring a coach but we seem to have survived. No one would have predicted our current success with Buzz or any high profile coach that doesn't cheat.
PRN hasn't changed his colors either as he comes out swinging at Chicos much like he went after Buzz and his bald head. Next thing you know we have a thread about people being too short or too fat.
I'm not a Chicos sympathizer but all you need to know about PRN is that he likes to look at the negative side of things and has no room for opinions different than his own. PRN deserves to be called out due to the fact that he was a bully of MUSCOOP and completely wrong.
Not only will this not work. It can't work.
Unlike many people here, the Puerto Rican came back a year later and admitted he was dead about Buzz. Compared with the raw hubris of so many here the Puerto Rican's candor and humility is refreshing.
Quote from: MU B2002 on April 04, 2013, 09:07:36 PM
The trolling gets so irritating some times, and by some times I mean all the time. Thread to thread, post to post just never ends.
I've declared you as my new mortal enemy for the purposes of this board. Let's send a few PM's to determine what we will feud about and then we too can trash every topic with our own dirty laundry.
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/90c5f2c1f85146c2f0a3097f7d347183/tumblr_mhno8bKsYo1s4o0huo1_500.gif)
Quote from: 77fan88warrior on April 04, 2013, 09:48:50 PM
I was just thinking back to the coaching change after I saw Chico's post with three or four links to the time machine. I remember a lot of unhappy people and I decided to look back. Obviously, PRN was leading the charge in the thread that I pasted but the majority weren't on board with him in that thread. The funny part is that Chicos thought we jumped on Buzz too soon but PRN couldn't help jumping on Chicos.
I probably wouldn't have started this thread if I hadn't remembered how PRN was always foaming at the mouth about Crean and Golden Eagles(I'm still a Warrior). When he wasn't foaming, he would pump up Bo Ryan and Bruce Pearl.
He was right about Bo as Crean still can't even sniff his jock. What can you say about Pearl?
I called him out because he went after Buzz and the administration without any real knowledge. I think a lot of people understood that Buzz was a great recruiter and the administration knew more about him personally. Many of us were worried that we needed to keep the boat afloat due to loss of incoming recruits and the fact we were losing a very strong senior class the following spring. I guess it's hard to believe someone might know more than yourself.
I'm a fan and I don't know anything about hiring a coach but we seem to have survived. No one would have predicted our current success with Buzz or any high profile coach that doesn't cheat.
PRN hasn't changed his colors either as he comes out swinging at Chicos much like he went after Buzz and his bald head. Next thing you know we have a thread about people being too short or too fat.
I'm not a Chicos sympathizer but all you need to know about PRN is that he likes to look at the negative side of things and has no room for opinions different than his own. PRN deserves to be called out due to the fact that he was a bully of MUSCOOP and completely wrong.
Not only will this not work. It can't work.
Bruce Pearl? If I ever consistently "pumped him up" I'd be interested in reading that. I nevernreally had an opinion of him other than the garbage with Illinois and i think hes a decent TV guy. As for my comments regarding Buzz and his appearance. I believe appearances are a legit concern when hiring a coach. I know ND had reservations about Rick in this regard. At the time of his hiring, it was my belief that Buzz did not project a positive image. This has obviously changed. Buzz was not wearing expensive suits, ties, shoes, etc and he was less than polished. I still think that. Hell, I was still very concerned about Buzz into his first year when he had that bizarre blow up with McIlvaine.
I'm not going any further with this because I love Buzz and I think, if we were going to rank the most important figures in MU basketball history, Buzz is on the 12 man roster. In no particular order: McGuire, Raynor, Wade, O'Neill, Brute Force, Kojis, Ellis, Buzz, Strong, maybe Wild, etc.
Thank u Steve Cottingham. We should have a statue erection for Steve outside pilarz's office.
Did you really say erection? Can you say erection here?
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 05, 2013, 06:22:26 AM
Thank u Steve Cottingham. We should have a statue erection for Steve outside pilarz's office.
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000TpKy6rZnEl4/s/650/650/Greek-Statue-GOR-17524v.jpg)
Quote from: JakeBarnes on April 05, 2013, 12:34:09 AM
I've declared you as my new mortal enemy for the purposes of this board. Let's send a few PM's to determine what we will feud about and then we too can trash every topic with our own dirty laundry.
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luzvlpZxru1qzcuvq.gif)
Quote from: keefe on April 05, 2013, 06:54:03 AM
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000TpKy6rZnEl4/s/650/650/Greek-Statue-GOR-17524v.jpg)
You spend a lot of time shooting seed on your own chest, eh?
Edit: why'd the mods kill "a-i-n-a"? Too nontraditional?
PRN isn't a bad guy, sent me a patch and some other stuff years ago for Willie Wampum.
I just think he says things that are sometimes without factual backing or out of spite which typically leads to an easy return volley. He loves MU, so do all of us here. Good enough for me....we'll just disagree on some of the other stuff.
Oh man, Keefe's statue pic has me in tears Im laughing so hard. Where do you get this stuff, smh.
Quote from: keefe on April 05, 2013, 12:04:08 AM
Unlike many people here, the Puerto Rican came back a year later and admitted he was dead about Buzz. Compared with the raw hubris of so many here the Puerto Rican's candor and humility is refreshing.
Exactly. People have strong opinions about the things they love, and PRN loves MU basketball. He gave his honest first impression, and when it proved wrong he admitted as much publicly. Deserves a tip of the hat rather than ridicule, IMO.
PRN and I had very similar views during the lat hiring process. I respect PRN as being a stand up guy and great MU fan. Back then I was so mad at the process I never looked at the hire. Looking back I wish I had looked at the process and Buzz as separate entities and not one in the same. When PRn talks I tend to listen.
Anyone who pays homage to one of the icons of Marquette basketball with his user name gets a hat tip from me.
Sir Lawrence
How was D.C? I was tempted to join you after I saw you were going. I am off to The Master on Monday and was hoping to see you in Atlanta for NC with our Warriors. Hope you had great time regardless of outcome.
All Haill Steve Cottingham!!!!
Quote from: Goose on April 05, 2013, 09:36:27 PM
Sir Lawrence
How was D.C? I was tempted to join you after I saw you were going. I am off to The Master on Monday and was hoping to see you in Atlanta for NC with our Warriors. Hope you had great time regardless of outcome.
Had a pleasant weekend with my son and daughter-in-law, despite the game. Went to Easter mass at Georgetown chapel. Two old Jesuits brought it home in fifty minutes. Life is good. For you too, Masters, sheesh.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 05, 2013, 08:24:57 PM
You spend a lot of time shooting seed on your own chest, eh?
what?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 05, 2013, 08:52:07 PM
Exactly. People have strong opinions about the things they love, and PRN loves MU basketball. He gave his honest first impression, and when it proved wrong he admitted as much publicly. Deserves a tip of the hat rather than ridicule, IMO.
Double true.