MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Otule's Glass Eye on March 31, 2013, 07:29:44 PM
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Nice article on our outlook for next season
http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/9077065/marquette-golden-eagles-lose-add-means
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Recruit and return: Marquette
Who the Golden Eagles lose, who they add and what it means for next season
Updated: March 30, 2013, 6:47 PM ET
By Adam Finkelstein | ESPN RecruitingNation
Sixty-eight teams made the NCAA tournament, but each of them knows that if it wants to return, it needs to recruit well. As teams are eliminated, RecruitingNation is looking at what each squad is losing, what kind of recruiting class it is bringing in and what that means for its hopes of making it back to the Big Dance. Here is a look at Marquette.
Possible 2013-14 starting five:
G: Duane Wilson
G: Vander Blue
F: Juan Anderson
F: Jamil Wilson
C: Davante Gardner
Who it loses: While Marquette graduates three starters in Junior Cadougan, Trent Lockett and Chris Otule, the Golden Eagles should still return quite a bit of firepower, including their top three scorers in Vander Blue, Davante Gardner and Jamil Wilson. Of course, the overall statistical contributions of the three departing seniors don't effectively relay their total value. All three guys, but especially Cadougan and Lockett, provided critical leadership and consistent reinforcement of the principles that Buzz Williams preaches on a daily basis, while Otule was also the team's premier shot-blocking threat in the paint. Consequently, the gaps left to fill will be in less tangible categories like leadership, toughness and defense.
Who it adds: Williams has a deep and talented recruiting class coming in next season with four players out of the high school ranks and a fifth recruit from junior college. JaJuan Johnson, Deonte Burton and Duane Wilson provide the backcourt of the future with a trio of ESPN 100 prospects. Johnson is the best of the bunch, and the uniquely talented 6-foot-5 swingman is still just scratching the surface of his potential. Burton is versatile enough to play either forward position because of his strength and athleticism. Both Wilson and John Dawson are equally versatile in the backcourt, capable of playing either on or off the ball, which will give Williams plenty of flexibility in the future. Juco transfer Jameel McKay will provide some added depth to the frontline.
What it means for next season: Gardner and Jamil Wilson were both models of efficiency this year, consistently scoring and rebounding in relatively limited minutes. Expect both players to see more minutes next season. Juan Anderson is another player who should see more minutes a year from now, despite starting most games this season. With Gardner at the five, Jamil Wilson and Anderson returning at the forward spots and Blue returning in the backcourt, the biggest question is who will win the other starting guard spot. Todd Mayo is arguably the most talented option, but he might be best utilized to provide a scoring punch off the bench. Rising junior Derrick Wilson and incoming freshman Duane Wilson are the best options if Williams chooses to go with a true point guard.
Trending: Up. Marquette will miss the intangibles of the departing seniors, but with the top three scorers returning and a trio of ESPN 100 recruits coming in, the Eagles should be just fine.
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Nice article, but I can't see Anderson starting next season.
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Give Anderson a full summer to work out in the weight room and in the gym, and you never know. Remember he had to sit out most of last summer due to his surgery.
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Nice article, but I can't see Anderson starting next season.
He also neglected the fact that Otule may return next year with another year of eligibility.
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Nice article, but I can't see Anderson starting next season.
Why not. He can play 90 seconds, then sit the rest of the half.
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Otule deserves to make some money playing ball. His services will likely fetch him some decent money overseas. He has been here a long time, and with as injury prone as he has proven, he probably would be best off not risking injury during a final run with Marquette. For all those reasons, I think he goes.
If he stays, however, we will be very, very tough. His presence is a game changer, along with Gardner. Selfishly, I'd love for him to stick around. Leadership and size on the interior, with new influx of athleticism and this could be a dangerous team.
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Over the course of the next 2 years Juan will be one of our most important players. His vision, length and energy are all unique. Some of the passes he made were absolute beauties and after he adds some strength, gains some confidence and consistency in his shot, and gets more minutes to work his game out at this level - he'll be a great player.
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Otule deserves to make some money playing ball. His services will likely fetch him some decent money overseas. He has been here a long time, and with as injury prone as he has proven, he probably would be best off not risking injury during a final run with Marquette. For all those reasons, I think he goes.
If he stays, however, we will be very, very tough. His presence is a game changer, along with Gardner. Selfishly, I'd love for him to stick around. Leadership and size on the interior, with new influx of athleticism and this could be a dangerous team.
I also selfishly would like him to stay. Gardner would be fine but Otule is taller, faster, more athletic and better defensively. We wouldn't have a player over 6'8 or 6'9 without him. He would be vital to a F4 run IMO.
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Otule deserves to make some money playing ball. His services will likely fetch him some decent money overseas. He has been here a long time, and with as injury prone as he has proven, he probably would be best off not risking injury during a final run with Marquette. For all those reasons, I think he goes.
We discussed this in a post a month or so go ... The average NBDL salary is 24k/year. Unsure he could make a NBDL team. He would be lucky to make even this overseas. He would get paid more getting a "real job."
Now if he returned and made it a season without injury, and played like he did he last 10 games, he can make a lot more as a basketball player next year.
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Starting doesn't mean much to me. But in terms of starting pr playig a ton of minutes, I'd be absolutely shocked if Steve Taylor didn't start/blow by several people on the depth chart next year. Biggest jump is often times Frosh to Soph year. I expect much biger things from a talent like Steve Taylor next year. He will be a beast.
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I also selfishly would like him to stay. Gardner would be fine but Otule is taller, faster, more athletic and better defensively. We wouldn't have a player over 6'8 or 6'9 without him. He would be vital to a F4 run IMO.
McKay, Taylor are/were all listed at 6' 8" at one point or another.
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We discussed this in a post a month or so go ... The average NBDL salary is 24k/year. Unsure he could make a NBDL team. He would be lucky to make even this overseas. He would get paid more getting a "real job."
Now if he returned and made it a season without injury, and played like he did he last 10 games, he can make a lot more as a basketball player next year.
Haha, no. He would have PLENTY of options overseas, and I would not be surprised at all if he made 6 digits or around there for a few years.
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McKay, Taylor are/were all listed at 6' 8" at one point or another.
Yes, I can count Taylor, McKay, Jamil and Gardner as being 6'8 or 6'9. Gardner is the only center out of those, and he's really more like a power forward. Not sure if we could win a lot of opening tips with Gardner at C. Would be a disadvantage going against teams that have 2 or 3 guys at 6'10 or taller.
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Haha, no. He would have PLENTY of options overseas, and I would not be surprised at all if he made 6 digits or around there for a few years.
Sigh ... here we go again with the misinformation.
It was detailed here ...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36202.msg453076#msg453076
Bottom line. Average US salary playing in Europe is $65k. Average player was someone that has years of professional experience and was probably a late round NBA draft.
Only three rookies in the top two French leagues last year, all were drafted and elected to play overseas (see DJO). Third division pays 1500 euros a month. Unsure he could even make the third division.
Otule makes more selling insurance than trying to play in Europe. Only way that changes is if he gets draft in June. Have you seen his name on any draft boards?
Come back play 30 games next year like the last 10 and show you can make a season without injury. Try to get drafted. Then do like DJO and go overseas to make about $65k/year.
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Sigh ... here we go again with the misinformation.
It was detailed here ...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36202.msg453076#msg453076
Bottom line. Average US salary playing in Europe is $65k. Average player was someone that has years of professional experience and was probably a late round NBA draft.
Only three rookies in the top two French leagues last year, all were drafted and elected to play overseas (see DJO). Third division pays 1500 euros a month. Unsure he could even make the third division.
Otule makes more selling insurance than trying to play in Europe. Only way that changes is if he gets draft in June. Have you seen his name on any draft boards?
Come back play 30 games next year like the last 10 and show you can make a season without injury. Try to get drafted. Then do like DJO and go overseas to make about $65k/year.
This is a really interesting proposition. Just reviewed the previous thread you linked and you seem to have some good information there.
I suppose the decision becomes tougher for Otule if he can't guarantee decent money going the professional route.
Either way, back to the inent of the original post, if Otule comes back we definitely gain a major boost.
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Nice summary. Wonder why we still have no information about CO's plans?
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Nice summary. Wonder why we still have no information about CO's plans?
Did you expect anything about this before the season ended? I did not. The season has been over for only 24 hours. I expect something in the next several weeks.
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I would like to see Chris be back next year. Although Vander made a quantitative jump, I really thought CO was the most improved player compared to what he showed in the past. If there's any untapped upside, he could be quite a force next year.
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I would like to see Chris be back next year. Although Vander made a quantitative jump, I really thought CO was the most improved player compared to what he showed in the past. If there's any untapped upside, he could be quite a force next year.
Even if he doesn't have any more room to develop I'd still want him back. If he does improve his skills then I'd still want him back.
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Over the course of the next 2 years Juan will be one of our most important players. His vision, length and energy are all unique. Some of the passes he made were absolute beauties and after he adds some strength, gains some confidence and consistency in his shot, and gets more minutes to work his game out at this level - he'll be a great player.
Couldn't agree more
If he can develop a shot, he already has the pump fake that everyone bites on he will be a force on offense
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Over the course of the next 2 years Juan will be one of our most important players. His vision, length and energy are all unique. Some of the passes he made were absolute beauties and after he adds some strength, gains some confidence and consistency in his shot, and gets more minutes to work his game out at this level - he'll be a great player.
Jeez, we go from one extreme to another. A bunch say he is never going to progress...a bunch say he'll be a "great player" and is "unique." The truth probably lies in the middle. He will develop into a solid player if he puts in the work.
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He also neglected the fact that Otule may return next year with another year of eligibility.
You are right, MUFanatic. Neglecting to mention this as even a possibility shows a lack of basic reporting skills.
Nothing to see here.
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While I would probably start Duane Wilson over Derrick, what would that say about Buzz's comments earlier in the season that Derrick probably deserved to start but Junior was the incumbent... wouldn't Derrick be the incumbent next year over a frosh?
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While I would probably start Duane Wilson over Derrick, what would that say about Buzz's comments earlier in the season that Derrick probably deserved to start but Junior was the incumbent... wouldn't Derrick be the incumbent next year over a frosh?
Yes, he will most likely start. But we have seen what starting for buzz means. Duane could come in 3 minutes into the game. Derrick will start but as long as duane is as good as advertised he will most likely close.
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Starting doesn't mean much to me. But in terms of starting pr playig a ton of minutes, I'd be absolutely shocked if Steve Taylor didn't start/blow by several people on the depth chart next year. Biggest jump is often times Frosh to Soph year. I expect much biger things from a talent like Steve Taylor next year. He will be a beast.
ESPN may not be Taylor's favorite sports outlet anyway. For most of this season, the ESPN box score listed him as "Steve, Jr." with a position of "NA".
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While I would probably start Duane Wilson over Derrick, what would that say about Buzz's comments earlier in the season that Derrick probably deserved to start but Junior was the incumbent... wouldn't Derrick be the incumbent next year over a frosh?
Knowing how loyal Buzz is, it's almost unfathomable that Derrick won't at least start the season as the No. 1 PG.
Doesn't mean Derrick won't get pulled after 3 minutes if he's not playing well. Buzz also has proven he's not afraid to do that.
I'm hoping like heck that the hype about Duane proves accurate, because we need a better PG than Derrick playing starter minutes.
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Knowing how loyal Buzz is, it's almost unfathomable that Derrick won't at least start the season as the No. 1 PG.
Doesn't mean Derrick won't get pulled after 3 minutes if he's not playing well. Buzz also has proven he's not afraid to do that.
I'm hoping like heck that the hype about Duane proves accurate, because we need a better PG than Derrick playing starter minutes.
I'll take a point guard who locks down the other team's point guard, turns the other team's point guard over, and doesn't turn the ball over ever even if he doesn't look to score at all (he'll do more of that next year) over a point guard who can score some but is a defensive liability and turns the ball over. I can't wait to see Derrick prove all the Scoopers wrong next year. Like Buzz said after we beat Butler (and he was absolutely right), Derrick Wilson was the reason we were still playing after 2 NCAA Tournament games. It was no coincidence that we made a little run at Syracuse to end the first half with Derrick Wilson in the game. Most importantly, Carter Williams wasn't able to do whatever he wanted with Wilson in. Wish Wilson would've gotten more minutes in the second half. Defense first. Love the kid. Tough as nails.
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I agree that Derrick is one tough player, but you can not play O"Tule and Anderson with Derrick as all 3 have major deficiencies so I do not see all 3 playing together that often. Wilson
Duane will get a crack to play as he is offensive as is Johnson and even Burton, Anderson needs to improve big time next year.
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I agree that Derrick is one tough player, but you can not play O"Tule and Anderson with Derrick as all 3 have major deficinecies
Very true. To me, the jury is still out on whether Wilson can score. That wasn't his role this year. He knew his role and played it to a tee. Next year if he is the starting point guard his offensive role will change. Yet to be seen if he's up to the challenge.
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Whoever works the hardest in the off season will win the job, but after watching Wilson dunk with either hand, shot the 3 and pass to Stone, he is really talented. Not sure Derrick has
it him as well as he is short, Duane is like 6' 2" or 3", great athlete, Derrick is not. You can tell what he brings to the table, defensively he has game, but he is not a great driver to the
hoop or has not shown the ability to pass the ball.
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I'll take a point guard who locks down the other team's point guard, turns the other team's point guard over, and doesn't turn the ball over ever even if he doesn't look to score at all (he'll do more of that next year) over a point guard who can score some but is a defensive liability and turns the ball over. I can't wait to see Derrick prove all the Scoopers wrong next year. Like Buzz said after we beat Butler (and he was absolutely right), Derrick Wilson was the reason we were still playing after 2 NCAA Tournament games. It was no coincidence that we made a little run at Syracuse to end the first half with Derrick Wilson in the game. Most importantly, Carter Williams wasn't able to do whatever he wanted with Wilson in. Wish Wilson would've gotten more minutes in the second half. Defense first. Love the kid. Tough as nails.
I like your optimism and hope he proves you right next year.
I don't see it, but I've been wrong plenty. Including when I said this team would only win 9 Big East games. I LOVE being proved wrong in these situations!
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Like always practices and the weight room will determine minutes.
Jameel will play a big role as will Steve.
Duane, if he has good control of the O and D, will back up Derrick, who really frustrates me because he has very little offense (defense just slack off him).
I foresee the possibility of John being Jamal next year.
Deonte will get 6th or 7th man minutes.
Most of all, I'd like to see Todd thanked for his contributions and released (sorry).
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I really hope Otule returns. He'd be the only true center and I believe Gardner's minutes will still be less than 30mpg. I can also see Gardner getting the go ahead from Buzz to shoot the 3 freely. He won't beat anyone off the dribble but he's a pure shooter. Taylor is definitely a starter most of the season. The rest of the new recruits will have to earn their minutes based upon the practices and their defensive skills. Wilson and Blue get 36 minutes, Gardner 25-30 depending on conditioning. Taylor at least 20.
That doesn't leave a ton of time for the rest of the squad. Competition will be fierce and our offense will have many more options. It'll also be nice not watching Junior getting beat time and again off the dribble. Buzz has more choices than ever and I trust him and his staff will do a quality job figuring out who and when everyone egts the nod.
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Yes, he will most likely start. But we have seen what starting for buzz means. Duane could come in 3 minutes into the game. Derrick will start but as long as duane is as good as advertised he will most likely close.
I'll take a point guard who locks down the other team's point guard, turns the other team's point guard over, and doesn't turn the ball over ever even if he doesn't look to score at all (he'll do more of that next year) over a point guard who can score some but is a defensive liability and turns the ball over. I can't wait to see Derrick prove all the Scoopers wrong next year. Like Buzz said after we beat Butler (and he was absolutely right), Derrick Wilson was the reason we were still playing after 2 NCAA Tournament games. It was no coincidence that we made a little run at Syracuse to end the first half with Derrick Wilson in the game. Most importantly, Carter Williams wasn't able to do whatever he wanted with Wilson in. Wish Wilson would've gotten more minutes in the second half. Defense first. Love the kid. Tough as nails.
As as far as the jury being out on Derrick Wilson on the offensive end, I think the jury is clearly out on Duane Wilson on both sides of the floor. We are making the same types of assumptions, and putting the same types of expectations, on Duane that we have for a bunch of our freshmen previously.
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Anyone else worried that after next year it seems like we will be "center-less" again?
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Anyone else worried that after next year it seems like we will be "center-less" again?
Buzz might be the best Juco recruiter in the nation. Look for him to sign a Juco that can bridge the gap between Gardner/Otule and Diamond Stone.
How's that for optimism!
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Gardner is the only center out of those, and he's really more like a power forward. Not sure if we could win a lot of opening tips with Gardner at C.
I expect that if no Otule, Jamil Wilson be be taking the opening jump for most games.
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I think Jameel McKay is going to be playing a lot of post if Otule isn't back. And I think he is the number one option there in 2014 regardless of who we recruit.
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I think Jameel McKay is going to be playing a lot of post if Otule isn't back. And I think he is the number one option there in 2014 regardless of who we recruit.
Sultan - what are you hearing about his game? His numbers look very good, but is he really only 195 lbs.?
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Sultan - what are you hearing about his game? His numbers look very good, but is he really only 195 lbs.?
I haven't heard much other than what has been reported here. He is very lengthy, with a nice vertical and a gifted rebounder. (10 rpg last year.) However my understanding is that his offensive game has been generally limited to the inside. He was 0-5 last year from 3.
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Anyone else worried that after next year it seems like we will be "center-less" again?
The PR fro MU and Buzz is really at its highest right now, I am sure he can get into a few houses this upcoming year with a great story about MU, but more importantly he can tell
a big man he might start as a freshman. I am sure he will find somebody.
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As as far as the jury being out on Derrick Wilson on the offensive end, I think the jury is clearly out on Duane Wilson on both sides of the floor. We are making the same types of assumptions, and putting the same types of expectations, on Duane that we have for a bunch of our freshmen previously.
Very true. Good point. I have been very vocal about my excitement for Duane but I have also been very vocal (in past threads) about how different Big East basketball is from Division 4 WIAA basketball (or even the highest high school AAU basketball). After watching the Marquette vs. Syrcause game on Saturday and then going to the Bucks vs. Thunder game that night, the difference between an "open" shot in college and an "open" shot in the NBA is huge, and how much bigger and more physical the game is in the NBA. A "contested" shot in college is a wide open shot in the pros. I have a feeling the difference is just as big from high school to college. It's a different game, and freshman often times take a year to really find their way in college basketabll.
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As as far as the jury being out on Derrick Wilson on the offensive end, I think the jury is clearly out on Duane Wilson on both sides of the floor. We are making the same types of assumptions, and putting the same types of expectations, on Duane that we have for a bunch of our freshmen previously.
I just assume that most kids (regardless of what they are ranked) will be role players for their first year or 2.
Go back and read how excited everybody was for Jamail Jones. Same for Juan. Same for Vander. Same for Steve Taylor Jr. Same for Todd Mayo.
Guess what? Those kids were all role players for 2 years (taylor TBD), and that's just fine.
Guys like Dominic, Jerel and Wes are exceptions to the rule.
If you expect instant results, you're ultimately going to be disappointed in 8/10 players that step on campus which is a tough way live (for me anyways).
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As as far as the jury being out on Derrick Wilson on the offensive end, I think the jury is clearly out on Duane Wilson on both sides of the floor. We are making the same types of assumptions, and putting the same types of expectations, on Duane that we have for a bunch of our freshmen previously.
Agree totally, Sultan. All I ever say is that I hope Duane can meet the hype, because we really could use a PG who can ... um ... what's the word I'm looking for? ... oh yeah ...
Shoot!
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Agree totally, Sultan. All I ever say is that I hope Duane can meet the hype, because we really could use a PG who can ... um ... what's the word I'm looking for? ... oh yeah ...
Shoot!
I think we can get away with a PG who isn't a great shooter. What we lacked this year was a great shooter from ANY position. We need a shooter on next year's team.
As far as PG, I think what we need Derrick to do is shoot free throws well (he needs to improve immensely in this area) and occassionaly hit a mid-range shot to keep the defenses honest, ala Cadougan. If he can do that we will be okay.
This year he wasn't good at either so he has got some work to do in the off-season.
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I just assume that most kids (regardless of what they are ranked) will be role players for their first year or 2.
Go back and read how excited everybody was for Jamail Jones. Same for Juan. Same for Vander. Same for Steve Taylor Jr. Same for Todd Mayo.
Guess what? Those kids were all role players for 2 years (taylor TBD), and that's just fine.
Guys like Dominic, Jerel and Wes are exceptions to the rule.
In reality, only Dominic was ready to play a leading role as a freshman. Jerel and Wesley should have been role players but we didn't have anybody else.
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In reality, only Dominic was ready to play a leading role as a freshman. Jerel and Wesley should have been role players but we didn't have anybody else.
Great point. I liked Jerel but no way would Buzz have him starting on any of his teams when McNeal was a freshmen. A key guy off the bench, but no way starting.
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Derrick was a pretty good offensive player in High School. Wonder if Buzz wanted him to develop his defensive skills as a frosh/soph. Hopefully he can work on his offensive and distributing skills over the summer. Buzz saw something in this kid, maybe he will blossom like Vander has in his junior year.
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In reality, only Dominic was ready to play a leading role as a freshman. Jerel and Wesley should have been role players but we didn't have anybody else.
I kind of agree, but look at Wes and Jerel's numbers. That's still REALLY impressive for a frosh.
I think ST2 could have put up similar numbers as a frosh, but I can't really think of another one that could. Vander played a lot of minutes and didn't do it. Gardner didn't do it. Mayo didn't do it, and if he was that effective, he could have stolen more of Vander's minutes. Guys have had chances to be more than role players, but they just aren't ready.
The only guys that were even similar are DJO and Jae, and they were not true frosh. their first year on campus.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/23-wesley-matthews
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/jerel-mcneal
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Derrick, Vander, Wilson, McKay, free Steve would be an awesome defensive/ scary athletic line up. I could see them ripping people's arms off on loose balls
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I kind of agree, but look at Wes and Jerel's numbers. That's still REALLY impressive for a frosh.
I think ST2 could have put up similar numbers as a frosh, but I can't really think of another one that could. Vander played a lot of minutes and didn't do it. Gardner didn't do it. Mayo didn't do it, and if he was that effective, he could have stolen more of Vander's minutes. Guys have had chances to be more than role players, but they just aren't ready.
The only guys that were even similar are DJO and Jae, and they were not true frosh. their first year on campus.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/23-wesley-matthews
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/jerel-mcneal
What is not in those numbers is turnovers per game and defense. Yes, Jerel had a lot of steals, but with Buzz's defense Jerel would have out of position too much for Buzz to have started him.
I seem to recall Jerel got in foul trouble a lot too his frosh year and Buzz is not a fan of guards getting in foul trouble.
If Buzz coached that 05-06 team, yes Jerel would have started. He would not have started on this year's team, 11-12 team, next year's team, etc..
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What is not in those numbers is turnovers per game and defense. Yes, Jerel had a lot of steals, but with Buzz's defense Jerel would have out of position too much for Buzz to have started him.
I seem to recall Jerel got in foul trouble a lot too his frosh year and Buzz is not a fan of guards getting in foul trouble.
If Buzz coached that 05-06 team, yes Jerel would have started. He would not have started on this year's team, 11-12 team, next year's team, etc..
This. Minutes + role in the offense = Stats. Jerel and Wesley got the minutes and numbers they did as freshmen because there wasn't much ahead of them. Look at Trent Lockett's numbers at ASU - better than they were at MU as a senior. That's because they're weren't as many good players to share minutes and the ball with.
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This. Minutes + role in the offense = Stats. Jerel and Wesley got the minutes and numbers they did as freshmen because there wasn't much ahead of them. Look at Trent Lockett's numbers at ASU - better than they were at MU as a senior. That's because they're weren't as many good players to share minutes and the ball with.
I know what you are saying, but in your mind, who would have been as good as Jerel and Wes as frosh. if they were handed a bunch of minutes?
Steve Taylor: Yes.
Every other Frosh. we have seen in the past 5 seasons: Not so sure.
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I think Vander will see some serious minutes at PG next year, maybe with JJJ also in the lineup at the same time. If JJJ is as good a shooter as has been reported, we'll need that added dimension in our offense.
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For Derrick Wilson I think it is very possible he could come back as an improved shooter from distance next year. This is the type of singular offensive skill that a lot of players are able to improve from one year to another. Whether it be finishing around the hoop, free throws, or passing out of double teams, often times players who are limited can show some growth in areas of their games. I do not ever expect him to be an impact player on offense (at least in terms of scoring) but as of right now teams invite him to shoot the open three like he is Otule. My wishful thinking is that this will be the singular skill that he is able to improve upon over a summer of work. Junior shot the three this year at something like a 23% clip. Think if Derrick were even good for roughly 33% (which sadly would have made him second best this year). Again, this may be too much to ask of someone who simply does not appear to want to shoot right now, but I think it is our best hope for having a complete offense with him at the helm.
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I do not think we should count on any newcomer until they survive boot camp.
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If JJJ is as good a shooter as has been reported, we'll need that added dimension in our offense.
I've heard JJJ described as a streaky shooter, not necessarily as a good shooter. Matt Thomas is a good shooter.
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I've heard JJJ described as a streaky shooter, not necessarily as a good shooter. Matt Thomas is a good shooter.
Coulda just used our very own Duane Wilson in that example 'steada the irrelevant Iowa State traditional. Jamil's cousin shot 58% from three this year, not sure how he's fairly regularly overlooked as the shooter we're all pining for. Probably cuz he also has off-the-charts athleticism. Quite the combination indeed.
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I can't explain why, but I picture Jameel for MU like DeMarre Carroll for Mizzou: interior presence with outside touch.
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I can't explain why, but I picture Jameel for MU like DeMarre Carroll for Mizzou: interior presence with outside touch.
I can explain why. It's the dreads.
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It would also be smart of Otule to get a masters paid for by playing next year?!?!
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I do not think we should count on any newcomer until they survive boot camp.
Agreed!
But I wonder how many of them will be playing in the Summer League they have with Jim Ganzer?
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I think we can get away with a PG who isn't a great shooter. What we lacked this year was a great shooter from ANY position. We need a shooter on next year's team.
As far as PG, I think what we need Derrick to do is shoot free throws well (he needs to improve immensely in this area) and occassionaly hit a mid-range shot to keep the defenses honest, ala Cadougan. If he can do that we will be okay.
This year he wasn't good at either so he has got some work to do in the off-season.
No no no.....I disagree. In college basketball you CAN'T get away with a PG who can't shoot. If we had one MU would still be playing. It is a credit and wonder that they got this far as they did!
The only reason MU got as faras they did was clutch plays by Vander and Jamil in two games and they do have a semblance of a low post threat in Otule and in Gardner and they can defend and not turner the ball over.
Junior is an excellent facilitator but to go further they needed someone to come down and knock down a shot and score as well. When Jamil went cold they were all done...
No one wanted to shoot and no one wanted to look bad missing shots so they froze up. A great deal of my optimism is Duane Wilson and what I saw from him when I went to see him.
His mid-range game and 3pt game from the college line is on point. He has very good form and a shot that is not overly broke or needs that much work on as far as from a technical standpoint.
Get's great elevation, can get separate with a set back and has a quick release and a steady eye and clean form. And he is fearless. Will pull up from anywhere and if he jells with one or two of his teammates early he will be hard to contain.
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I do not think we should count on any newcomer until they survive boot camp.
Do you know of any player that hasn't survived bootcamp? Real question.
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No no no.....I disagree. In college basketball you CAN'T get away with a PG who can't shoot. If we had one MU would still be playing. It is a credit and wonder that they got this far as they did!
Junior Cadougan had a higher FG% than Peyton Siva and last I checked, Louisville was getting away with it.
You don't need a point guard that can shoot if you have other players around him who can. The problem with MU this year was lack of outside shooting overall. If we had any consistent threat whatsoever, MU is likely in the final four. That doesn't have to come from the point guard position.
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Junior Cadougan had a higher FG% than Peyton Siva and last I checked, Louisville was getting away with it.
You don't need a point guard that can shoot if you have other players around him who can. The problem with MU this year was lack of outside shooting overall. If we had any consistent threat whatsoever, MU is likely in the final four. That doesn't have to come from the point guard position.
Exactly my point. Of course we all want a PG who can shoot 40% from three, ala Diener. However, you just don't make a decision on your PG based on shooting. Whoever gets the majority of minutes at point is going to be based on a lot of different factors.
If Duane Wilson can shoot 40% from three, play solid defense as Derrick, handle the ball, run the offense, etc. of course he will get the majority of minutes. I hope Duane can, but will not hold my breath for a freshmen to do that.
My point was we don't exclude Derrick just because he can't shoot from three. What he needs to do is figure out a midrange/pull-up shot and make sure he can hit free throws.
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Do you know of any player that hasn't survived bootcamp? Real question.
There have been several players that arrived and never made it to boot camp.
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Exactly my point. Of course we all want a PG who can shoot 40% from three, ala Diener. However, you just don't make a decision on your PG based on shooting. Whoever gets the majority of minutes at point is going to be based on a lot of different factors.
If Duane Wilson can shoot 40% from three, play solid defense as Derrick, handle the ball, run the offense, etc. of course he will get the majority of minutes. I hope Duane can, but will not hold my breath for a freshmen to do that.
My point was we don't exclude Derrick just because he can't shoot from three. What he needs to do is figure out a midrange/pull-up shot and make sure he can hit free throws.
Agree, but do we even know if Der Wilson can hit the three? I don't remember him even taking too many.