If you asked me four days ago, I would have said that Vander Blue had less than 10% chance of being drafted. We've discussed his strengths and weaknesses ad nauseum on this board, so I won't bring them up again here. I simply felt that neither his body of work nor his potential screamed out to NBA teams that here was a kid worth using a pick on.
That was then. This is now:
Aside from being a wonderful athlete whose vast improvement from sophomore to junior years shows he was willing and able to work hard and be coached, Vander's ability to rise to the occasion on the biggest stage is just the kind of thing NBA types LOVE to see.
The two St. John's shots, the Davidson 3-pointer and game-winner, and his overall performance Saturday absolutely got the attention of NBA honchos. Without looking at the overall draft board and knowing all those likely to be available, I would think he would get serious second-round consideration right now. One or two more performances like his recent work could move him up even further.
Vander would do a disservice to himself to not at least explore the possibilities. After the season, Buzz definitely should be helping him look into all of this; it's in the job description of today's college coach.
I don't know a thing about Vander's family and/or financial situations to know how much he needs money. Nor do I know whether he loves being a collegian or can't wait to get out. Both of those things are always major factors in a kid's decision.
The hope is that Vander gets very good advice -- Buzz can and should help filter out the noise -- and that he makes the very best decision he can for himself.
For the first time, I think there is at least a decent chance he'll leave and that the NBA would be keenly interested if he does.
Selfishly, I want him back. What I want and the rest of us want can't and shouldn't be part of his decision.
I wish him luck -- next weekend and beyond!
Great post. Agree 100%. Add to his recent play the fact Vander has and NBA body and NBA athleticism.
NBA scouts would probably line to see a "cleaner" shooting stroke. But many, many hours in the gym could fix that.
If Vander comes back and plays like this consistently he could find himself in the first round.
In order to be at least a mid first round pick, Vander needs 4 more stellar games in this year's tourney. I could live with that. ;D
I think his stock is at all time high for him right now. Sometimes coming back for senior year with extremely high expectations placed on you hurts a guy. NBA draft guys on potential all day long. I am with MU82 and want him back for selfish reasons. On flip side, the kid has worked hard to put himself in this position and he should do what is best for him for the long term.
Vander may have NBA athleticism, but he is actually undersized for a 2 guard at 6'4" and 200lbs. Either his shooting and/or his handle has to get better for a lengthy NBA career.
He's definitely been working on his shot a lot. I wonder if/which coach is assisting him in his shot. Is at 30% in 3 pct. would be exciting to have him back
Quote from: Goose on March 24, 2013, 10:10:26 AM
I think his stock is at all time high for him right now. Sometimes coming back for senior year with extremely high expectations placed on you hurts a guy.
Of course he's going to do what is best for him, and it will be done with Buzz and MU's full support, but I see nothing in his three year history to suggest that your suggestion above is anything to worry about. Other guys? Sure. This guy? Not a chance. Way too tough for that.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:12:52 AM
Vander may have NBA athleticism, but he is actually undersized for a 2 guard at 6'4" and 200lbs. Either his shooting and/or his handle has to get better for a lengthy NBA career.
A little undersized, Sultan, but not grossly so. Has decent body composition and strength, and obviously can get stronger. His size is at least as good as DJO's -- statistically better, actually -- and DJO was a second-rounder in a supposedly better year for prospects.
He may test the water and not sign an agent. Which, after the tournament he's having,, why wouldn't you? I don't think he's quite ready yet, but he looks more like the NBA caliber player we thought he could be coming out than ever before. I will say...it still bothers me that he releases on the way down, and in the bigs, those couple inches are the difference between a career and a memory.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2013, 10:17:55 AM
A little undersized, Sultan, but not grossly so. Has decent body composition and strength, and obviously can get stronger. His size is at least as good as DJO's -- statistically better, actually -- and DJO was a second-rounder in a supposedly better year for prospects.
I think we might be talking past one another here. Yes I think he would get a chance and either be drafted or latch onto a team. However he would have to improve his all around game to stick around. DJO is a great example. He got drafted, but his size is a problem.
Quote from: Gardner's Postgame Snack on March 24, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
He may test the water and not sign an agent.
These rules changed a bit, not sure what the specifics are, but he can't roll into draft camps like other players have.
I hope Vander doesn't try to make the leap. He's developing into a fantastic player but he still has some growing up to do. One more year under Buzz and he'll be a 1st round pick
Quote from: Gardner's Postgame Snack on March 24, 2013, 10:21:45 AM
He may test the water and not sign an agent. Which, after the tournament he's having,, why wouldn't you?
I think this is his best move. Training/Playing against NBA prospects would be great for him in his development as a player, no matter what he does.
DJ did this after his sophomore year, I think.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
I think we might be talking past one another here. Yes I think he would get a chance and either be drafted or latch onto a team. However he would have to improve his all around game to stick around. DJO is a great example. He got drafted, but his size is a problem.
He may play point guard in the association.
What is Vander's 3 pt shooting percentage in the last few minutes of the game? Must be higher than rest of the game.
Quote from: hairyworthen on March 24, 2013, 10:32:10 AM
He may play point guard in the association.
He may play PG at MU next year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:12:52 AM
Vander may have NBA athleticism, but he is actually undersized for a 2 guard at 6'4" and 200lbs. Either his shooting and/or his handle has to get better for a lengthy NBA career.
D-wade is 6'4", 220. I'm not saying Blue = Wade, but their games are pretty similar as well. Biggest asset is their quickness and athleticism. Neither was/is considered a great shooter or ball handler in college, although Wade was better than Blue at this point in both categories. If Blue takes us to the Final Four and is projected as a first round pick, he should enter the draft this year. Next year's draft is stacked.
"Hey Vander, How does it feel to make it to the sweet sixteen?"
"I don't know. How does it feel not to make it?"
Nothing against Butler's guards, but let's see if Vander can do it against the likes of Durand Scott and Shane Larkin...he's been awesome as hell, but to me he truly will be ready when he can be more consistent against guys that are just as athletic as him like he would be seeing in the NBA.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 24, 2013, 10:31:05 AM
I think this is his best move. Training/Playing against NBA prospects would be great for him in his development as a player, no matter what he does.
DJ did this after his sophomore year, I think.
He can no longer do this. The NCAA now requires withdrawl from the draft by the first day of the spring signing period, which is around April 10. Vander can declare, get an evaluation by some sort of NBA panel, but he cannot work out prior to the NBA withdrawl date like DJ did.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:28:21 AM
I think we might be talking past one another here. Yes I think he would get a chance and either be drafted or latch onto a team. However he would have to improve his all around game to stick around. DJO is a great example. He got drafted, but his size is a problem.
We are in complete agreement.
Quote from: Slim on March 24, 2013, 10:36:34 AM
"Hey Vander, How does it feel to make it to the sweet sixteen?"
"I don't know. How does it feel not to make it?"
+1
Vander needs one more year of total improvement, many games he got lost, yesterday and the last few games, Vander has taken the leadership role, his whole body of work needs more
consistency but he is coming. Compared to last year, he is a different player. Earlier in the year, all MU fans were wondering where the points were going to come from. Yesterday, Vander showed us. Let see if he can do it again. Butlers guards were small, he was able to do things against them that he is unable to do against better guards. Lets see how he does
against Miami. If he comes back, next year will be as good if not better than this year. Lots of experience coming back. Juan and Derrick might be able to score a bucket or maybe even
2 next year during a game.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:12:52 AM
Vander may have NBA athleticism, but he is actually undersized for a 2 guard at 6'4" and 200lbs. Either his shooting and/or his handle has to get better for a lengthy NBA career.
Exactly right. He's not undersized too badly in height to play the 2, but his body is not NBA ready at this point. He has the quickness to play at the next level, but I do not think he is physically strong enough to take the abuse of the 82 game season.
He also does not shoot well enough to play the 2 in the NBA right now. Put in another offseason in the weight room and in the gym working on the shot and he can do it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:37:34 AM
He can no longer do this. The NCAA now requires withdrawl from the draft by the first day of the spring signing period, which is around April 10. Vander can declare, get an evaluation by some sort of NBA panel, but he cannot work out prior to the NBA withdrawl date like DJ did.
Interesting. The rule change kind of screws kids who make decent post-season runs.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 24, 2013, 10:12:52 AM
Vander may have NBA athleticism, but he is actually undersized for a 2 guard at 6'4" and 200lbs. Either his shooting and/or his handle has to get better for a lengthy NBA career.
His size is fine for today's nba. "At shooting guard, the average size and weight equaled 6'4", 202 lbs. Washington's Jordan Crawford (6'4", 195) comes close to this average profile. Last season, the average size was 6'6", 211 lbs. So the size at the TWO spot has really gotten smaller. The range for SG's was interesting due to Paul Pierce logging minutes at the TWO on this night where Ray Allen was out of the lineup. The shortest SG's were 6'1" (Mo Williams, Jannero Pargo), while the tallest was Devin Ebanks at 6'9". The weight range for shooting guards went from 180 lbs. (Jrue Holiday, Jerome Dyson, Jason Terry), to Pierce at 235 lbs. "
OK, I appreciate that moomoo.
I really don't know if the one extra year of work will help Vander anyway given the depth of next year's draft. It very well might be better for him to forgo that extra year of work.
Yahoo! Sports saying he's arguably the best player in the tourney
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--buzz-williams--wild-weekend-in-kentucky-included-two-buzzer-beaters--one-appendectomy-053527543.html
also talks about Buzz dancing and consoling a Butler player after the loss
I think if good NBA people are telling him he is a 1st round pick, then he should go.
But, I don't think going in the second round would be a smart move. Too many variables and he could end up playing in Russia.
1 more year of hard work and improvement at MU could make him a top 20 pick, which would be a ton of $.
this years draft will be a lot weaker then next ones with the Harrison twins and Wiggins
2nd rounder this year if he comes out.
Will be tragic if he leaves and doesn't get drafted.
Finish it out at MU: be the leader of the first MU squad that goes back-to-back-to-back-to-back Sweet 16s.
You're only a collegian once.
VDB is ready made for the NBA because he is an excellent defender. He learned to defend from day 1 knowing that the offence would come. I want him to stay too as we would be contenders next year. The price of our success this year is VDB. Let's hope he can take us to the promised land.
After reading these posts here are my thoughts. Vander will do what he thinks is best for him, which is not necessarily the same as what is best for him. Vander is much closer to D. Wade's athleticism than most college players, but he really is not close to being equal to Wade. MU lists him as 6'4" which means he is one to two inches shorter. The rules have been changed for declaring early. You have to withdraw your name vey early. I think there is only a two week window, so there is no chance to declare and work out for teams and withdraw. Basically, you declare and see if any teams have interest. Then you have to trust their interest. There is no benefit to declare for the experience.
VDB leaving can be looked at as a positive. Our program is respected by the NBA brass because we have a coach/program that prepares our athletes well. See Wesley/JB. They defend. That is why the quality of our recruits are improving. The recruits are told this. We will get the superior pro style athletes over the Badgers and many other programs. So It's all good
If, as we all hope, Vander comes back, he would benefit from playing summer ball in a league featuring a mixture of pros and collegians. Yeah, it's a lot of street ball, but he'd get cred and confidence. Lots of guys do this. Maybe Vander already has done it.
I think they pretty much have the scenario down. Before he decides, he will see what the NBA boys think about his prospects and then act accordingly.
Yes, of course I want him back - he would be the clear leader of a good squad that should be a top 20 team. The good news is - his shot still needs work, and he needs a better handle. I think he's done great but that he's a year away from the Association.