Does this bother anybody a bit?
What we lost all national:
1. Notre Dame #17
2. Syracuse #58 tied
2. Pittsburgh #58 tied
3. Connecticut #63
4. Rutgers #68
5. Cincinnati #139
6. Louisville #160
7. West Virginia #165
8. South Florida #170
What the new conference is/likely will be:
National:
1. Georgetown #21
2. Marquette #83
3. SLU #92
4. Dayton #115
5. Seton Hall #131
6. Depaul #134
7. St John's #147
Regional:
8. Villanova #1 North
8. Creighton #1 Midwest
9. Butler #2 Midwest
10. Providence #4 North
10. Xavier #4 Midwest
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 05:27:20 AM
Does this bother anybody a bit?
Not one second.
What do ATHLETIC conferences have to do with academics?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 21, 2013, 05:39:19 AM
Not one second.
What do ATHLETIC conferences have to do with academics?
I'm not quite sure but have you ever noticed that conference leaders always go on about the schools being academically elite. For example did you watch the announcement yesterday? The guys from GTown and Providence went on about how they were committed to great academics.
I'd argue that combining like schools with the help of a new sports network could actually enhance the academic rankings of the schools in this conference.
In a newspaper article in the Omaha newspaper, one reason Creighton lobbied hard to get into this new conference was that the business school is looking to expand and they felt that the increased publicity Creighton will get around the country now will help attract donations and students and we all know that new facilities greatly pushes the academic rankings up whether the education is better or not.
In other words, Marquette will do just fine in the new Big East both athletically and academically.
Those rankings are total crap. Look at how they are determined.
The rankings favor large research schools, so no I don't care.
When did Dayton & St. Louis join the Big East? :D
Simply because a school has a regional ranking does not mean it is less elite that a national one. Richmond is a prime example of this and would be the second most selective school in this conference.
Creighton and Villanova have dominated their regions for a long time and are very selective. USNWR rankings are very much skewed against small private and liberal art colleges. We won't be missing the academic prowess of Wes Virginia, Louisville or USF anytime soon.
Frankly, it bothers me more that you can't spell Academic :P
Quote from: 2TimeWarrior on March 21, 2013, 06:47:52 AM
Frankly, it bothers me more that you can't spell Academic :P
Sorry after an all nighter before a midterm i wasn't checking my grammar
Wait a minute, you're really arguing that WVa and USF are stronger schools than Nova and Creighton?
Next...
The fact that Nova and Creighton aren't included in the "national" rankings is arbitrary and strange. I think an education from either is a nationally viable one.
I'd sure as heck want a degree from either one to a degree from Cincy, USF, Louisville, or WVU.
It's only a "downgrade" if you place a greater premium on "national" rankings over "regional" rankings.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 21, 2013, 07:10:10 AM
It's only a "downgrade" if you place a greater premium on "national" rankings over "regional" rankings.
Well I had assumed that being a national university meant you were above the regional ones. If that's incorrect please explain how the rankings really work.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
Well I had assumed that being a national university meant you were above the regional ones. If that's incorrect please explain how the rankings really work.
Lesson #1: they don't.
Someone concern trolling about the new conference's "academics", should probably not misspell "academics" in the thread title.
Quote from: lab_warrior on March 21, 2013, 07:15:01 AM
Someone concern trolling about the new conference's "academics", should probably not misspell "academics" in the thread title.
Allnighter, hyped up on redbull, have a midterm in three hours sorry i couldn't meet your picky standards.
My understanding is some schools, Dayton for one, do not cooperate in the rankings process. More schools should just ignore the rankings. How in the hell can Yale law be ranked ahead of Harvard law, or vice versa? Ridiculous.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
Well I had assumed that being a national university meant you were above the regional ones. If that's incorrect please explain how the rankings really work.
You haven't read your own list, or perhaps not had your coffee yet this morning if you ever believed Louisville, West Virginia, and South Florida are in anyone's mind, list, or imagination close to Villanova, Creighton, and Butler academically.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:22:18 AM
Allnighter, hyped up on redbull, have a midterm in three hours sorry i couldn't meet your picky standards.
Don't let the grammar Nazis bother you. Anyone who does that must never make any mistakes.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
Well I had assumed that being a national university meant you were above the regional ones. If that's incorrect please explain how the rankings really work.
First off, the rankings are based on reputation more than anything...not on how effectively they actually educate someone.
Second, national v. regional are based off where they draw their students. Marquette draws its students from a more national base than Villanova does.
Third, these rankings are dumb.
West Virginia has a great furniture fire retardant school, I've heard.
It IS a step down. But clearly the academics ship sailed away out of the harbor long ago.
Don't care. Just win
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 05:27:20 AM
Does this bother anybody a bit?
What we lost all national:
1. Notre Dame #17
2. Syracuse #58 tied
2. Pittsburgh #58 tied
3. Connecticut #63
4. Rutgers #68
5. Cincinnati #139
6. Louisville #160
7. West Virginia #165
8. South Florida #170
What the new conference is/likely will be:
National:
1. Georgetown #21
2. Marquette #83
3. SLU #92
4. Dayton #115
5. Seton Hall #131
6. Depaul #134
7. St John's #147
Regional:
8. Villanova #1 North
8. Creighton #1 Midwest
9. Butler #2 Midwest
10. Providence #4 North
10. Xavier #4 Midwest
You do know that the reason these schools are regional is that they do not offer PhD programs correct? Nova is a FANTASTIC school with a dynamite business school. All of the new additions are an academic upgrade to Ville, Cinci, WVU and USF. You really should understand the subject matter before making blanket statements that are completely false. Next you're going to tell us the Earth is flat because you cannot see it curve? Come on man, be smarter than that.
Quote from: Sylvester78 on March 21, 2013, 07:40:43 AM
It IS a step down. But clearly the academics ship sailed away out of the harbor long ago.
Don't care. Just win
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aIOPTJH-eCE/TpMMbaN6PJI/AAAAAAAAAe8/_GqylUyaZBw/s1600/Just-Win-Baby1.jpg)
It is still better than being in Conference USA and CUSA 2.0, American 12, or Conference whatever these other schools decide to call it.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:11:37 AM
Well I had assumed that being a national university meant you were above the regional ones. If that's incorrect please explain how the rankings really work.
The difference between National and Regional universities in the rankings concerns doctoral programs. Schools that offer few or any are classified as Regional.
The student-athlete graduation rate for the incoming schools as a group is better than the schools that won't be part of the conference going forward. ND pulls that group's average up, but UConn's GSR was only 10%.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:22:18 AM
Allnighter, hyped up on redbull, have a midterm in three hours sorry i couldn't meet your picky standards.
If you weren't concern trolling on internet message boards then you may not have needed all night to study.
Rankings are for morons. They're authored by morons, the data is collected from morons, the statistics are analyzed by morons, and only morons actually concern themselves with rankings.
Case in Point: According to Dr. Eppli (MU's interim CoBA dean), some years back, North Carolina's undergraduate real estate program was ranked in the top ten in the country by a "reputable" ranking service. The only problem... North Carolina didn't have an undergraduate real estate program at the time... their graduate program in real estate was so renowned that the people being surveyed (and those who conducted the survey) simply assumed that UNC's undergraduate program had to be just as good.
Quote from: Benny B on March 21, 2013, 09:07:32 AM
Rankings are for morons. They're authored by morons, the data is collected from morons, the statistics are analyzed by morons, and only morons actually concern themselves with rankings.
Case in Point: According to Dr. Eppli (MU's interim CoBA dean), some years back, North Carolina's undergraduate real estate program was ranked in the top ten in the country by a "reputable" ranking service. The only problem... North Carolina didn't have an undergraduate real estate program at the time... their graduate program in real estate was so renowned that the people being surveyed (and those who conducted the survey) simply assumed that UNC's undergraduate program had to be just as good.
And Princeton was recently surveyed to have a top-25 law school. Princeton does not have a law school.
Clicked on this thread thinking somebody was trolling us.
Instead it is just another person that doesn't understand rankings are crap. Also, its quite ironic you spelled academic wrong in the title.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 21, 2013, 07:51:52 AM
The difference between National and Regional universities in the rankings concerns doctoral programs. Schools that offer few or any are classified as Regional.
This is 100% correct.
One of my profs told me that his PhD advisor (at Cornell) worked in the administrative side of the school for some time. He told my prof that part of the rankings is "% of alums that Cornell has contact info for that donate" The higher that % is, the higher the rankings. So what does Cornell do? They make sure to get contact info and stay up on those from the Bschool and those who know are likely to give back to the school, ie, make money, rather than track down contact info for the arts students.
Another story why rankings are flawed. MBA programs are ranked by USWNR as well. My buddy got a decent score on the GMAT but was getting info in the mail and e-mail from top-notch programs. Programs where he stood no chance based on median gmat score and gpa. Why would they send him info on the school and many times even offer an application waiver? Well, he applies, they take a cursory glance at his profile, and then they reject him. Why? This lowers their acceptance rate, which makes them look more prestigious/boosts rankings.
Yet another story. Guy I know at Uchicago law school told me that law school rankings used to calculate mean LSAT score in their rankings. But USWNR was afraid that schools were only accepting students with the highest lsat score and looking at nothing else. So, they switched to measuring the median lsat score, which is less susceptible to the really high scores. How did law schools respond? Well, they started taking away financial aid from the top lsat applicants/matriculants and instead broke it down into two payments, which they would give to two students who scored just above the median lsat score to entice them to come to their school (it was either duke or unc, but i think duke). The school got in trouble, but the point is schools manipulate these numbers and the rankings need to be taken with a grain of salt.
Anyway, back off the kid, guys. He was ignorant about the meaning of 'regional university' vs. 'national university'. Simply correct his bad information, no need to jump all over the kid.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 21, 2013, 07:22:18 AM
Allnighter, hyped up on redbull, have a midterm in three hours sorry i couldn't meet your picky standards.
I see your midterm, and raise you a dissertation draft due at the end of the week,
thesis defense next week, along with an hour seminar for the Biology department.
Also, it's not like I give two s***s about spelling. I just find it very amusing that
someone is so concerned about acedemics.
Quote from: PTM on March 21, 2013, 06:36:24 AM
The rankings favor large research schools, so no I don't care.
This.
Doesn't the term "Private School" convince you enough that we're solid academic institutions?
;)
Rankings are accurate. Other than Georgetown, the rest are middle of the road--- so what?
This is such a tired topic. Over it.
Quote from: Badgerhater on March 21, 2013, 09:06:52 AM
If you weren't concern trolling on internet message boards then you may not have needed all night to study.
Oh ya I'm trolling for wanting some conversation in the middle of the night during breaks. Sorry we can't all be model students like you but the other two hobbies listed in my name take up a great deal of my time.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 21, 2013, 11:33:45 AM
Rankings are accurate. Other than Georgetown, the rest are middle of the road--- so what?
The rankings are a fair representation of the prestige of the various schools. Arguing between #83 and #150 is like a guy arguing his Pontiac is better than your Dodge. Unless you are at the very top these rankings don't mean sh!t in any practical way.
Some companies favor grads of certain schools because key executives went there. Others hire because schools market themselves better to HR Departments. There is a case study on ASU. Every Feb ASU holds a job fair that includes sponsored golf, spas, etc... They market this program aggressively to large MNCs located in cold weather locations. And every year dozens of large companies from the snow belt send their people down to Phoenix to interview and hire ASU undergrads between ASU sponsored golf, spas, etc... Is ASU that good of a school? Not really. But does it matter if an Ohio company hires an ASU grad or a Cleveland State grad for an entry-level bean counter role? Of course not. But people like to get out of Cleveland in the dead of winter to play golf in Phoenix in February. Creative marketing can differentiate much more effectively than a USNWR ranking.
ASU is a tier 3 school.
Hah .. Davidson weighing in on this post.
http://www.davidsoncats.com/viewtopic.php?t=17394