Just thought it interesting. National rank and dollars in endowment EOY 2011. I haven't seen a 2012 list yet.
Personally, I've never been that thrilled with our endowment (insert joke here), likely because the other schools I went to were larger, plus the schools out here in the west have such huge numbers. Compared to the rest of our league, however, MU doing very well. The ranking I have goes to 840 colleges
63. Georgetown $1.160 Billion
168. Marquette $401 Million
178. Creighton $375 Million
181. Villanova $370 Million
185. St. John's $359 Million
191. DePaul $348 Million
248. Seton Hall $232 Million
305. Provicence $164 Million
315. Butler $158 Million
373. Xavier $120 Million
If Richmond joins, they are 33rd. SLU is 87th. Dayton 164th.
Honest question - How much of an effect does endowment size have on athletic performance of a university? On academic performance?
Quote from: cven7 on March 16, 2013, 11:21:10 AM
Honest question - How much of an effect does endowment size have on athletic performance of a university? On academic performance?
I have been told the size of the endowment greatly affects the performance.....but I could have been lied to.....
Its not so much the size of the endowment that matters. Its pretty much all in how it's used.
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 16, 2013, 11:34:56 AM
Its not so much the size of the endowment that matters. Its pretty much all in how it's used.
Sure...keep telling yourself that.... ;D
Quote from: cven7 on March 16, 2013, 11:21:10 AM
Honest question - How much of an effect does endowment size have on athletic performance of a university? On academic performance?
Well, hard to say. Certainly the top academic schools in the country have the highest endowments almost without question. The top 100 endowments are pretty much your top 100 schools in the country with a few exceptions here and there. Many of the top athletic programs, as well, are in that list but the distribution is broader. More than anything it gives a school stability, prestige, power (you are more coveted), etc.
http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2011NCSEPublicTablesEndowmentMarketValues319.pdf
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 11:18:19 AM
Just thought it interesting. National rank and dollars in endowment EOY 2011. I haven't seen a 2012 list yet.
Personally, I've never been that thrilled with our endowment (insert joke here), likely because the other schools I went to were larger, plus the schools out here in the west have such huge numbers. Compared to the rest of our league, however, MU doing very well. The ranking I have goes to 840 colleges
63. Georgetown $1.160 Billion
168. Marquette $401 Million
178. Creighton $375 Million
181. Villanova $370 Million
185. St. John's $359 Million
191. DePaul $348 Million
248. Seton Hall $232 Million
305. Provicence $164 Million
315. Butler $158 Million
373. Xavier $120 Million
If Richmond joins, they are 33rd. SLU is 87th. Dayton 164th.
Public.....
Father Wild's goal was to get MU up to $1B before he left. Also, Dr. Giacomino once told our class that ND can fund everything with its endowment and tuition is almost ancillary. Also, I know investors watch Yale university's endowment as an important indicator of the market and a guide to key investments.
That's basically everything I have ever known about endowments.
Quote from: BlindboyPatSmith on March 16, 2013, 11:24:12 AM
I have been told the size of the endowment greatly affects the performance.....but I could have been lied to.....
It's certainly helped Northwestern hoops.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 11:18:19 AM
Just thought it interesting. National rank and dollars in endowment EOY 2011. I haven't seen a 2012 list yet.
Personally, I've never been that thrilled with our endowment (insert joke here), likely because the other schools I went to were larger, plus the schools out here in the west have such huge numbers.
Its a Catholic school thing. By and large Catholic institutions didn't have the need for a huge endowment until the last 30 years or so. They have had contributed services (by priests and nuns), a steady stream of students, and by and large didn't focus much on research. (Which is what endowed professorships are generally used to attract professors for.) Marquette's endowment has grown tremendously over the past few decades though.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 11:41:45 AM
Well, hard to say. Certainly the top academic schools in the country have the highest endowments almost without question. The top 100 endowments are pretty much your top 100 schools in the country with a few exceptions here and there. Many of the top athletic programs, as well, are in that list but the distribution is broader. More than anything it gives a school stability, prestige, power (you are more coveted), etc.
http://www.nacubo.org/Documents/research/2011NCSEPublicTablesEndowmentMarketValues319.pdf
Endowments provide resources to certain area of the university, freeing up resources to be used elsewhere...like athletics.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 16, 2013, 11:53:24 AM
Public.....
Yes, public and larger alumni base usually means more $$.
There are some private schools ahead of us that we need to pass up. Dayton, SLU, etc.
Change the name back to warriors and we can get to $1 billion. ;D
Public universities have traditionally had smaller endowments because of the public support. As that has faded, the need for endowments have meant a greater focus.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 12:56:41 PM
Yes, public and larger alumni base usually means more $$.
There are some private schools ahead of us that we need to pass up. Dayton, SLU, etc.
There's been a pretty sizable and consistent increase ever since they began putting a lot of emphasis on it if I'm remembering correctly.
Quote from: BlindboyPatSmith on March 16, 2013, 11:36:21 AM
Sure...keep telling yourself that.... ;D
BeeJay can verify that.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 12:57:50 PM
Change the name back to warriors and we can get to $1 billion. ;D
+1
Universities use profits off endowments to fund much of the University. The key is they usually use a 3-year running average of investment profits (off endowment) to set their budget. The last economic downturn then really ate into the bottom line of most Universities, just starting to improve because of the 3-year average.
The problem is that, because of how bad the last downturn was for Universities, they are changing their investment strategies to be much more conservative (therefore low return and low budgets), so there isn't much improvement budget wise.
Big endowments, usually mean big pockets out there. Universities that have big endowments can usually also raise funds much easier, thereby allowing them to increase Endowment to maintain a profit level even during the downturn/conservative investing. Universities like MU are then hit much harder, since they don't have a large endowment, and a foundation of dedicated donors.
Harvard's increase in endowment from 2010 to 2011, was about 10x, MU's entire endowment.
SLU's endowment is in the $850 to $900 million range. Much bigger than MU's.
Largest endowments
- Harvard University, $30.4 billion
- Yale University, $19.3 billion
- University of Texas system, $18.2 billion
- Stanford University, $17 billion
- Princeton University, $16.9 billion
- MIT, $10.1 billion
- University of Michigan, $7.6 billion
- Columbia University, $6.5 billion
- Texas A&M University system, $7.6 billion
- Northwestern University, $7.1 billion
- University of Pennsylvania, $6.7 billion
- University of Chicago, $6.5 billion
- University of Notre Dame, $6.3 billion
- University of California, $5.9 billion
- Duke University, $5.5 billion
- Emory University, $5.4 billion
- Washington University in St. Louis, $5.2 billion
- Cornell University, $4.9 billion
- University of Virginia, $4.7 billion
- Rice University $4.4 billion
At Harvard and Yale you can go tuition free if your family makes less than $50,000 ... And in some cases less than $100,000.
My girlfriend's father (a Badger) claims regularly that UW is second only to Harvard in endowment size
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 16, 2013, 12:53:29 PM
Endowments provide resources to certain area of the university, freeing up resources to be used elsewhere...like athletics.
So why were you telling me that endowment was irrelevant when I mentioned Richmond's endowment as a positive for them joining the league? ?-(
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 16, 2013, 03:44:14 PM
My girlfriend's father (a Badger) claims regularly that UW is second only to Harvard in endowment size
They are 34th, not even close to Harvard
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 16, 2013, 02:58:49 PM
At Harvard and Yale you can go tuition free if your family makes less than $50,000 ... And in some cases less than $100,000.
I believe at Princeton, they make sure everyone with financial need gets either grants or scholarships. They don't use loans as part of their financial aid package.
Toughest part of Harvard, Yale, or Princeton is gettin' in.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 16, 2013, 04:36:45 PM
I believe at Princeton, they make sure everyone with financial need gets either grants or scholarships. They don't use loans as part of their financial aid package.
All theories d
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 16, 2013, 04:38:09 PM
Toughest part of Harvard, Yale, or Princeton is gettin' in.
Correct ... None of these schools need to charge tuition and they will tell you that. So, once accepted, you pay what you can and the school will cover the rest.
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 16, 2013, 04:30:35 PM
So why were you telling me that endowment was irrelevant when I mentioned Richmond's endowment as a positive for them joining the league? ?-(
As I recall that discussion, it was a question of whether or not Richmond was actually using resources towards athletics. Just because they *can* doesn't mean that's what they do.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 04:33:49 PM
They are 34th, not even close to Harvard
Such a typical badger response. Think they are top, really not so much.
I bet your (sixstrings) old lady's dad has never lived outside of the 77 sq miles either.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 16, 2013, 03:44:14 PM
My girlfriend's father (a Badger) claims regularly that UW is second only to Harvard in endowment size
Maybe he's thinking of the whole UW system (i.e., Madison + all UW@ schools), but even then it's not even close to Harvard, Yale, or MIT.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 16, 2013, 05:58:08 PM
Maybe he's thinking of the whole UW system (i.e., Madison + all UW@ schools), but even then it's not even close to Harvard, Yale, or MIT.
Even if you add UW-Madison plus the rest of the UW System ($342M) it doesn't even make the top 25. Heck, throw in Medical College of Wisconsin ($488M) and it comes in right at 25...not sure if MCOW is considered part of the UW system or not.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 06:07:06 PM
Even if you add UW-Madison plus the rest of the UW System ($342M) it doesn't even make the top 25. Heck, throw in Medical College of Wisconsin ($488M) and it comes in right at 25...not sure if MCOW is considered part of the UW system or not.
it's not.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 16, 2013, 04:56:53 PM
Such a typical badger response. Think they are top, really not so much.
I bet your (sixstrings) old lady's dad has never lived outside of the 77 sq miles either.
its like you know him! :)
Not to turn this into Badger loser story hour, but that was probably the tamest of his claims... Wish I remembered the exact wording but my favorite was that UW was considered multiple times to join the Ivy League but wouldn't give up their football program (and athletic scholarships)
On an unrelated note, any advice on handling an obnoxious father-in-law?
Buy him a condo in Florida.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 16, 2013, 04:46:33 PM
As I recall that discussion, it was a question of whether or not Richmond was actually using resources towards athletics. Just because they *can* doesn't mean that's what they do.
As I recall that discussion, you were saying that they almost certainly couldn't (i.e. can't) use their endowment for athletics because it probably had restrictions on its use.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 12:57:50 PM
Change the name back to warriors and we can get to $1 billion. ;D
[/qu
Now ya talkin Chicos, but this board is bored with the nickname controversy
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 16, 2013, 02:58:49 PM
Largest endowments
- Harvard University, $30.4 billion
- Yale University, $19.3 billion
- University of Texas system, $18.2 billion
- Stanford University, $17 billion
- Princeton University, $16.9 billion
- MIT, $10.1 billion
- University of Michigan, $7.6 billion
- Columbia University, $6.5 billion
- Texas A&M University system, $7.6 billion
- Northwestern University, $7.1 billion
- University of Pennsylvania, $6.7 billion
- University of Chicago, $6.5 billion
- University of Notre Dame, $6.3 billion
- University of California, $5.9 billion
- Duke University, $5.5 billion
- Emory University, $5.4 billion
- Washington University in St. Louis, $5.2 billion
- Cornell University, $4.9 billion
- University of Virginia, $4.7 billion
- Rice University $4.4 billion
At Harvard and Yale you can go tuition free if your family makes less than $50,000 ... And in some cases less than $100,000.
I just checked and that's not quite accurate. Harvard will assess you tuition fees but will also ensure you have access to necessary funding.
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 16, 2013, 03:44:14 PM
My girlfriend's father (a Badger) claims regularly that UW is second only to Harvard in endowment size
Your GF's father is wrong.
Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2013, 07:34:06 PM
I just checked and that's not quite accurate. Harvard will assess you tuition fees but will also ensure you have access to necessary funding.
What is your source?
Quote from: forgetful on March 16, 2013, 01:47:59 PM
Universities use profits off endowments to fund much of the University. The key is they usually use a 3-year running average of investment profits (off endowment) to set their budget. The last economic downturn then really ate into the bottom line of most Universities, just starting to improve because of the 3-year average.
The problem is that, because of how bad the last downturn was for Universities, they are changing their investment strategies to be much more conservative (therefore low return and low budgets), so there isn't much improvement budget wise.
Big endowments, usually mean big pockets out there. Universities that have big endowments can usually also raise funds much easier, thereby allowing them to increase Endowment to maintain a profit level even during the downturn/conservative investing. Universities like MU are then hit much harder, since they don't have a large endowment, and a foundation of dedicated donors.
Not sure where you got this. I led the GE Cap Venture team that partnered with Harvard's TVO which is part of the Endowment Trust and the TVO has a very aggressive investment strategy. We took an equity position with Harvard, Harvard Care Group, and Sun Microsystems Venture Group on clinical trial infrastructure in Asia. Harvard expected an 18% CAGR which meant they would double their investment within 4 years. These guys are smart and expect an aggressive return on any investment involving the Harvard Brand. In the case of emerging markets, incipient technology, and the health care vertical they look to double their money within 4 years.
Harvard's Endowment is so huge that their investment beta is very different than the normal fund owner.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 16, 2013, 06:07:06 PM
...not sure if MCOW is considered part of the UW system or not.
It'd make more sense to add their endowment to MUs considering the history. Plus, it'd get us closer to 1B!
Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2013, 07:49:46 PM
Not sure where you got this. I led the GE Cap Venture team that partnered with Harvard's TVO which is part of the Endowment Trust and the TVO has a very aggressive investment strategy. We took an equity position with Harvard, Harvard Care Group, and Sun Microsystems Venture Group on clinical trial infrastructure in Asia. Harvard expected an 18% CAGR which meant they would double their investment within 4 years. These guys are smart and expect an aggressive return on any investment involving the Harvard Brand. In the case of emerging markets, incipient technology, and the health care vertical they look to double their money within 4 years.
Harvard's Endowment is so huge that their investment beta is very different than the normal fund owner.
Can't speak for Harvard, but I know 4-5 other major Universities (Endowments in the $1-2 billion range) that have switched to 'safe' investment strategies and as such have not increased their budgets even with the 3-year moving average going up. They really struggled to keep things going in the last crisis and never want to have to go through that again.
Harvard though is really in a class all by itself, with such a large endowment base if they can take an economic hit and mitigate its effects larger than the average university. They may not alter their investment strategy then and remain aggressive.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 16, 2013, 07:38:55 PM
What is your source?
Harvard has a portal for alumni. One of the pages is on sponsoring legacies for admission (ie your children.) There is also a section on sponsoring deserving underprivileged and underrepresented. Harvard makes it clear Tuition will, in all cases, be assessed but that funding is available to off set shortfalls in applicant resources. This is an accounting issue but Tuition in and of itself is never waived.
In no case did it say that Harvard would 100% guarantee financial aid to any applicant, regardless of need. Having worked on the investment side of the Endowment I know what they fund with it and paying tuition for poor students isn't very high on that list.
Quote from: keefe on March 16, 2013, 07:59:36 PM
Harvard has a portal for alumni. One of the pages is on sponsoring legacies for admission (ie your children.) There is also a section on sponsoring deserving underprivileged and underrepresented. Harvard makes it clear Tuition will, in all cases, be assessed but that funding is available to off set shortfalls in applicant resources. This is an accounting issue but Tuition in and of itself is never waived.
In no case did it say that Harvard would 100% guarantee financial aid to any applicant, regardless of need. Having worked on the investment side of the Endowment I know what they fund with it and paying tuition for poor students isn't very high on that list.
Keefe - Harvard grad?
I have a kid going to an ivy in the fall and my experience is they will not let finances stand in the way. Or, don't worry about tuition and something can be work out. They will bend over backwards to get qualified middle and lower income kids.
Then I read this article on page 1 of today's NY Times ... They know high tuition is a problem now and they have a large enough endowment to do something about it ... And they are now.
I would suggest the Harvard Portal needs, and will be, updated soon.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/education/scholarly-poor-often-overlook-better-colleges.html?hp&_r=0
Most low-income students who have top test scores and grades do not even apply to the nation's best colleges, according to a new analysis of every high school student who took the SAT in a recent year. ...
Elite colleges may soon face more pressure to recruit poor and middle-class students, if the Supreme Court restricts race-based affirmative action. A ruling in the case, involving the University of Texas, is expected sometime before late June.
Colleges currently give little or no advantage in the admissions process to low-income students, compared with more affluent students of the same race, other research has found. A broad ruling against the University of Texas affirmative action program could cause colleges to take into account various socioeconomic measures, including income, neighborhood and family composition. Such a step would require an increase in these colleges' financial aid spending but would help them enroll significant numbers of minority students.
Among high-achieving, low-income students, 6 percent were black, 8 percent Latino, 15 percent Asian-American and 69 percent white, the study found.
"If there are changes to how we define diversity," said Greg W. Roberts, the dean of admission at the University of Virginia, referring to the court case, "then I expect schools will really work hard at identifying low-income students."
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 16, 2013, 06:28:38 PM
As I recall that discussion, you were saying that they almost certainly couldn't (i.e. can't) use their endowment for athletics because it probably had restrictions on its use.
Directly perhaps not. Indirectly they can.
Quote from: forgetful on March 16, 2013, 07:56:32 PM
Can't speak for Harvard, but I know 4-5 other major Universities (Endowments in the $1-2 billion range) that have switched to 'safe' investment strategies and as such have not increased their budgets even with the 3-year moving average going up. They really struggled to keep things going in the last crisis and never want to have to go through that again.
Endowments by and large are moving money out of equities and into areas such as hedging. Trying to achieve stability more than chasing annual returns. Harvard really doesn't fall into that mix because they have been doing that for years.