I know—with the hate of Badgers (and sometimes Crean)—there's no way to ask this without seeming like I have an agenda, but I'm genuinely curious.
The Big 10 has received a ton of praise this year as the toughest conference in the land. The top 25 doesn't really bear that out, but rankings aren't the end all be all.
I think the only way we'll really know is how they fare in the tourney, but I thought it'd be interesting to hear some thoughts. Sunday nights with no games make me anxious.
Yes, but it is because it is bit top heavy, as the Big East was the last couple years. Easily the best conference this year though.
Yes... but anything can happen in March.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on March 10, 2013, 08:04:05 PM
Easily the best conference this year though.
Follow question, then: why doesn't the top 25 reflect that? I mean, if you sliced right, you could say its the Big 10 with 3 teams in the top 10 to BE's 2. But in terms of the overall top 25, the BE has more teams.
Is it that the talent level of the top teams in the B1G is so much greater than, say, Duke or Georgetown?
We'll see. I don't think any conference is all that strong. The top 3 are very good, but no one past IU, MSU, and UM really has any consistency. I'm not sold on Ohio State or Wisky, and who else is there? Minnesota will probably make the tourney on their non-con resume but has been mediocre since January, Iowa hasn't beat anyone of note, and while the Illini could probably knock off a 1 or 2 seed, I think they have less chance of winning an 8/9 or 7/10 game.
Is IU, MSU, UM that much better than UL, GT, and MU? We'll see. But they aren't nearly as good as people have indicated, it's more a state of how mediocre the rest of the country is.
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on March 10, 2013, 08:11:55 PM
Follow question, then: why doesn't the top 25 reflect that? I mean, if you sliced right, you could say its the Big 10 with 3 teams in the top 10 to BE's 2. But in terms of the overall top 25, the BE has more teams.
Is it that the talent level of the top teams in the B1G is so much greater than, say, Duke or Georgetown?
Great marketing. This year, the B1G has been better than they have in years but they are not appreciably better than the current BE.
Quote from: Utile et Dulce on March 10, 2013, 08:11:55 PM
Follow question, then: why doesn't the top 25 reflect that? I mean, if you sliced right, you could say its the Big 10 with 3 teams in the top 10 to BE's 2. But in terms of the overall top 25, the BE has more teams.
Is it that the talent level of the top teams in the B1G is so much greater than, say, Duke or Georgetown?
Simple, because the top 25 moves teams around when they lose. The Big Ten beats the hell out of each other. How often does the top 25 not move a team down when it loses? Very rarely.
Put another way, does Gonzaga go undefeated in the Big Ten? Of course not...they have 6 to 7 losses, but because they play in the WCC they keep moving up in the rankings.
Duke is probably the best team in America, doesn't take away from the Big Ten conference. We can't confuse very good teams from one conference and say that lessens the argument for another conference. Easily could have a team not from the Big Ten win the title..easily. In fact, Duke probably wins it all, but it's pretty tough to find a conference that has IU, MSU, UM, OSU...all of which have Final Four potential. Not sure another conference this year has 4 teams that could do it.
Big East is still very good, Big Ten just a bit better but definitely top heavy.
Firstly, we're in a terribly mediocre year.
Secondly, the Big Ten started out with a lot of hype so it was always going to be viewed that way by a mostly indolent media apparatus.
Thirdly, they have three legitimate title contenders. Some conferences don't even have one. As a result, they get effusive praise.
Finally, it's all moot since the year is over and a Big Ten team won't win the Championship.
I think if you picked the top 5 teams from the two conferences, 4 of them would be from the big 10. Both MU and Georgetown can have difficulty scoring and I can see final four chances only with the right matchups. Only Ville has enough talent to go on a run without the right matchups. I feel like IU, MSU, UM, and OSU could all get there playing different styles. Cuse has been kind of a downer for the conference as they should have enough talent to compete with those squads, but for whatever reason they aren't getting it done this year.
Not sure I buy the media hype argument. The rating systems don't care about hype.
In almost all of them the Big Ten is #1
Sagarin #1
RPI #2 (behind Mountain West)
KenPom #1
WarrenNolan #1
Quote from: MUSF on March 10, 2013, 08:05:18 PM
Yes... but anything can happen in March.
+1. Like the Big East two years ago; even after the terrible first weekend it was still foolish not to think it was the best conference in the country all year. That didn't produce any more than two Sweet 16 teams.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2013, 08:36:39 PM
Not sure I buy the media hype argument. The rating systems don't care about hype.
In almost all of them the Big Ten is #1
Isn't it more fun to go with the media conspiracy theory though?
Seriously though, how many actually think the BEast was better than the Big Ten this year?
Conference strenght is a matter of preception created by preseason rankings and November & December non-conference games. It is hard to gage how much teams improve after January 1st compared to teams in other conferences. No one would argue that Florida was not significantly better than MU and UW in November. It is hard to say how much better Florida is now compared to MU and UW. The Big East should get 8 bids and the Big 10 should get 7. The SEC has one lock and 5 teams on the bubble. I really wonder if there is that much difference between the three conferences. When Villanova played Purdue back in November both teams looked terrible. Both teams were playing significantly better in March. Villanova will make the tournament and Purdue will make the NIT.
Since 1990, the B1G has only had one national champion. In the 11 seasons prior to that, they had four...their glory years. IU may be the only one this season to break through that dry spell. Btw, the Big East has only had one season, 2005-06, that it was ranked # 1 in Pomeroy going back to 2002-03. The SEC was right behind them (Florida won). Elite and best may have different meanings when a conference has a few great teams who dominate vs. parity.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 10, 2013, 09:07:53 PM
Since 1990, the B1G has only had one national champion. In the 11 seasons prior to that, they had four...their glory years. IU may be the only one this season to break through that dry spell. Btw, the Big East has only had one season, 2005-06, that it was ranked # 1 in Pomeroy going back to 2002-03. The SEC was right behind them (Florida won). Elite and best may have different meanings when a conference has a few great teams who dominate vs. parity.
When I think of a conference strength, it is top to bottom, not one team carrying the flag for the entire conference. The B1G has been down the last decade, but decent last year and very good this year. Doesn't mean they win the title, but top to bottom the best conference. We all know that a team like UNLV won it all in the 1990's but that didn't make the Big West the best conference. Nor was the SEC when Florida won the title. Just as the Horizon League wasn't all that just because Butler made it back to back years to the title.
A Big East team could win it all this year...hell, anything could happen this year. Should be fun. I suspect you will see many high seeds for the Big Ten (they could get 4 teams seeded 1 or 2 or 3. I would think that the Big East will have a few that are 9 or worse...Nova, Cincinnati, etc.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2013, 08:36:39 PM
Not sure I buy the media hype argument. The rating systems don't care about hype.
In almost all of them the Big Ten is #1
Sagarin #1
RPI #2 (behind Mountain West)
KenPom #1
WarrenNolan #1
That settles it, baby ...
Mountain West! No. 1!!!!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2013, 08:36:39 PM
Not sure I buy the media hype argument. The rating systems don't care about hype.
In almost all of them the Big Ten is #1
Sagarin #1
RPI #2 (behind Mountain West)
KenPom #1
WarrenNolan #1
For the love of all that is holy...GO HANG OUT ON AN INDIANA BOARD!!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 10, 2013, 08:33:01 PM
Simple, because the top 25 moves teams around when they lose. The Big Ten beats the hell out of each other. How often does the top 25 not move a team down when it loses? Very rarely.
Hmm. Isn't that the case for all conferences though? MU beats ND, ND beat up on Lou.
Are they the best conference this year, yes. Head and shoulders above the other conferences, hell no. In fact it is much closer than people say.
Put GU, UL and MU into the BiG and they are competitive for the conference championship (vice versa also true).
Take UW and put them in the BE and they are competitive with Cincy and Nova for 8th/9th.
Even the bottom feeders of the BE are stronger than Nebraska/Penn St./Northwestern this year.
The BiG benefitted from having 3 in the top 5 preseason. Teams that are perceived title contenders in the Pre-season get the benefit of the doubt after losses and don't drop as far.
By conference wins...
Top B1G teams: Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa
Top BE teams: Georgetown, Louisville, Marquette, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Notre Dame
All of the above B1G teams are ranked except Iowa.
All BE teams are ranked, as of now.
Bottom three teams in both leagues have less than .500 records; BE has 4 teams, though.
And the Wisconsin fans are celebrating the top 4 finish streak intact - good lord, celebrating a tie for fourth.....
with the II,II, Mich, MSU all strong - Bucky playing for fourth for the foreseeable future with OSU and a soon to be improving Ill and Iowa.
I think an issue the Big Ten has is that both Michigan and Indiana, often perceived as the conference's top two, both have a defensive problem. I don't like either of them as national champions, but need to see how the bracket shakes out. I do like Ohio State and Izzo has done amazing things in March.
At any rate, if I had three choices to project the national champion I don't think I'd pick a Big Ten team. Maybe* that changes based on the brackets next week.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on March 10, 2013, 10:37:10 PM
And the Wisconsin fans are celebrating the top 4 finish streak intact - good lord, celebrating a tie for fourth.....
with the II,II, Mich, MSU all strong - Bucky playing for fourth for the foreseeable future with OSU and a soon to be improving Ill and Iowa.
In most years we are celebrating if we get a double bye. So what?
Why would a question like this be posted on MU Scoop?
Watching Big 10 teams play is usually boring because of their slow play and lack of athletic talent. The top Big East teams are much better than the top Big Ten teams without question. The true test will be in the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 11, 2013, 08:56:05 AM
Why would a question like this be posted on MU Scoop?
Watching Big 10 teams play is usually boring because of their slow play and lack of athletic talent. The top Big East teams are much better than the top Big Ten teams without question. The true test will be in the NCAA tournament.
You aren't watching the games if you think Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State lack athletic talent.
Agreed. They all have athletic talent. Like all teams this year, they all have their flaws, but any of them are capable of getting on a run and going deep in the tourney.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on March 11, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
You aren't watching the games if you think Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State lack athletic talent.
Agree wholeheartedly. Minnesota and Illinois have some athletes too.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on March 11, 2013, 09:09:57 AM
You aren't watching the games if you think Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State lack athletic talent.
Not to mention that neither Indiana and Michigan State have more possessions per game than MU does...and Michigan and Ohio State are in the same neighborhood.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 11, 2013, 08:56:05 AM
Why would a question like this be posted on MU Scoop?
Watching Big 10 teams play is usually boring because of their slow play and lack of athletic talent. The top Big East teams are much better than the top Big Ten teams without question. The true test will be in the NCAA tournament.
Really? Some teams, sure. The whole conference? Last I checked the Big Ten had some great athletes and a one team is 3rd in the nation in scoring. In fact, there are two Big Ten teams in the top 25 in scoring...the highest Big East team is Louisville at 46th.
National champion will not come out of the Big10 this year!! Trust me
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on March 11, 2013, 10:46:38 AM
National champion will not come out of the Big10 this year!! Trust me
I'm really counting on you for this. Don't let me down.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on March 11, 2013, 10:46:38 AM
National champion will not come out of the Big10 this year!! Trust me
Who said it would? Are you reading a different thread?
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on March 11, 2013, 10:46:38 AM
National champion will not come out of the Big10 this year!! Trust me
ACC Duke