Would you invite UDM to join the Catholic Conference? Their play has been improving and it would be another midwestern team in the heart of a strong market. I know they are not great, but they play a better game than DePaul, Saint Johns, Providence, and Dayton (proposed team) as of right now. Any takers?
No! UD = Valpo. Would you take Valpo?
What's your basketball budget and prospects for improvement?
Win four of the next five Horizon titles and two NCAA games, show a large basketball investment, then we'll put them on the radar.
Furman won its last game, but I wouldn't take the Paladins, either!
Can we please get a history of recent excellence? We've got a great old/new conference. Let's not settle.
Quote from: Detfan23 on March 08, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
Would you invite UDM to join the Catholic Conference? Their play has been improving and it would be another midwestern team in the heart of a strong market. I know they are not great, but they play a better game than DePaul, Saint Johns, Providence, and Dayton (proposed team) as of right now. Any takers?
Not a chance. They've had moderate success (I'm being generous) because of one player in Ray McCallum Jr. over the last three years and he only went to Detroit as a top 50 recruit because his dad is the head coach there. Detroit has a heck of a long way to go before the new Big East would ever remotely consider them as a conference member.
This a joke?
I'd take all those teams you mentioned (maybe not DePaul) against Detroit any day. Hell, you guys didn't even win the Horizon.
They draw about 1,200+ per game.
I guess I'm the lone wolf here that would take UDM in the league if it was expanded to 14 teams.
I think it would be good for the league to have a presence in the state of Michigan. Detroit does not equal Valpo. The only media markets bigger than Detroit in the league are New York, DC, Chicago and Philadelphia. Detroit has had a better winning percentage than St. John's and DePaul and has as many NCAA entries as St. John's, DePaul, Providence and St. Louis over the past 10 years. They have a good chance of making the NCAAs again this season.
Again, I don't think they fit in a 10 or 12 team league, but I could live with them in a 14 team league.
Jeez guys... The guy comes here from another school and asks his opinion and beat the guy down.
The answer to me is no. Detroit's basketball budget is $2.5 million per this.
http://www.vcuramnation.com/forums/threads/a-10-expansion-candidates.11017/page-17
That is substantially less than the other C7 schools...including DePaul. I mean, Marquette's basketball budget is something like $8-10 million.
No (respectfully).
I want Creighton and St. Louis before any others
Quote from: Warriors10 on March 08, 2013, 03:12:13 PM
This a joke?
I'd take all those teams you mentioned (maybe not DePaul) against Detroit any day. Hell, you guys didn't even win the Horizon.
You would take DePaul over Detroit, no question. It's only a matter of time before DePaul regains some of its lost form and when it does there is going to be a huge market to support them.
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2013, 03:28:25 PM
I guess I'm the lone wolf here that would take UDM in the league if it was expanded to 14 teams.
I think it would be good for the league to have a presence in the state of Michigan. Detroit does not equal Valpo. The only media markets bigger than Detroit in the league are New York, DC, Chicago and Philadelphia. Detroit has had a better winning percentage than St. John's and DePaul and has as many NCAA entries as St. John's, DePaul, Providence and St. Louis over the past 10 years. They have a good chance of making the NCAAs again this season.
Again, I don't think they fit in a 10 or 12 team league, but I could live with them in a 14 team league.
Just because a team is in a marketplace, it doesn't mean it "delivers" the market to the league. For every 1,000 sports fans in Michigan, maybe 1 -- and that's probably being very generous -- cares about Detroit basketball.
It's the same reason we aren't pursuing Holy Cross to "deliver" the Boston market, Duquesne to "deliver" Pittsburgh, St. Mary's to "deliver" San Francisco, Florida International to "deliver" Miami, etc.
As it is, DePaul barely delivers Chicago, though at least it's a sleeping giant of a program that has been a big player in college basketball in my lifetime.
It's not the size of the market. It's the commitment of the school to the program as well as the program's likely success going forward.
I love the prospect that Detroit would bring: Big TV market, NBA/NHL facilities, and perhaps most importantly, great new grounds for recruiting. UDM also has a little bit of tradition, plus they are small, urban, and Catholic.
However, echoing what many have already stated, UDM does not seem too committed on hoops, evidenced by the meager $2.5M allocation.
I would defer to any of the C7 ADs on whether these benefits outweigh the costs of diluting the league, but as I see it currently, I would be opposed to them being in a 12-team league with us (but would still take them over VCU). However, I would be more willing to accept them in a 14 or 16 team league if, say, Fox demanded us to expand to that many teams.
No chance. They bring nothing to the table—except the stench of a mid-major bottom feeder.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 08, 2013, 03:50:22 PM
You would take DePaul over Detroit, no question. It's only a matter of time before DePaul regains some of its lost form and when it does there is going to be a huge market to support them.
I was talking about in a game, today...
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 08, 2013, 03:51:15 PM
the stench of a mid-major bottom feeder.
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQqTngN0yeQAqCdOIowJoXAQBrtwdpKnBiXgi9fXUYvp2Wli6eTog)
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSJs64MuQEE_ibWmV-Zm_ifFo0JSYP8hRlrhQ7I8TbumU0av8MFMg)
(http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/31203846.jpg)
The fact this question is asked .. is befuddling.
We are kicking out teams like Central Florida, Houston, Southern Methodist, ECU, Navy and Tulane.
Why would we take Detroit Mercy? Because they are Catholic? Yeah, that's not how the Big East rolls.
Being from Detroit it would be cool, but there is no way they belong anywhere near us when it comes to bball.
I want VCU
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 08, 2013, 04:04:56 PM
The fact this question is asked .. is befuddling.
We are kicking out teams like Central Florida, Houston, Southern Methodist, ECU, Navy and Tulane.
Why would we take Detroit Mercy? Because they are Catholic? Yeah, that's not how the Big East rolls.
Why is this befuddling? A fan of Detroit Mercy comes to the board to see what MU fans thought of them being in the new league, which I'm sure they'd like to be part of, as would many schools. As you can tell, most here are adamantly against it. Question answered.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 08, 2013, 03:51:03 PM
I love the prospect that Detroit would bring: Big TV market, NBA/NHL facilities, and perhaps most importantly, great new grounds for recruiting. UDM also has a little bit of tradition, plus they are small, urban, and Catholic.
However, echoing what many have already stated, UDM does not seem too committed on hoops, evidenced by the meager $2.5M allocation.
I would defer to any of the C7 ADs on whether these benefits outweigh the costs of diluting the league, but as I see it currently, I would be opposed to them being in a 12-team league with us (but would still take them over VCU). However, I would be more willing to accept them in a 14 or 16 team league if, say, Fox demanded us to expand to that many teams.
Having lived in Ann Arbor I can tell you that Detroit Mercy has zero traction in Michigan. Zero. And back then Detroit Mercy was actually competitive.
I do not think that being "Catholic" is a factor in consideration. Detroit does well in the Horizon League. They have found their home. Their quest has ended.
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 04:15:36 PM
Having lived in Ann Arbor I can tell you that Detroit Mercy has zero traction in Michigan. Zero. And back then Detroit Mercy was actually competitive.
I do not think that being "Catholic" is a factor in consideration. Detroit does well in the Horizon League. They have found their home. Their quest has ended.
And in Windsor?
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 04:15:36 PM
Having lived in Ann Arbor I can tell you that Detroit Mercy has zero traction in Michigan. Zero. And back then Detroit Mercy was actually competitive.
I do not think that being "Catholic" is a factor in consideration. Detroit does well in the Horizon League. They have found their home. Their quest has ended.
Keefe, when was the last year you lived in Michigan?
Providence is on the bubble right now. Dayton sells out their arena. DePaul and SHU are in a downswing but are loaded with tradition. SLU has history with the membership.
Unfortunately, UDM just isn'tlassoing of those classes. I'd schedule you 4 for 1 (though you may just want to take the buy money), but without a shock-the-world commitment to playing at the high major level, we can't play you twice a year.
Quote from: MU82 on March 08, 2013, 03:50:30 PM
Just because a team is in a marketplace, it doesn't mean it "delivers" the market to the league. For every 1,000 sports fans in Michigan, maybe 1 -- and that's probably being very generous -- cares about Detroit basketball.
It's the same reason we aren't pursuing Holy Cross to "deliver" the Boston market, Duquesne to "deliver" Pittsburgh, St. Mary's to "deliver" San Francisco, Florida International to "deliver" Miami, etc.
As it is, DePaul barely delivers Chicago, though at least it's a sleeping giant of a program that has been a big player in college basketball in my lifetime.
It's not the size of the market. It's the commitment of the school to the program as well as the program's likely success going forward.
Right on with this comment. I can't imagine Big East games would begin to air throughout the Detroit metro area due to the addition of UDM.
If we really NEEDED to get the Detroit market Oakland is probably a better team
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2013, 04:30:01 PM
Keefe, when was the last year you lived in Michigan?
When Bo was coaching Blue!
Long time ago but Detroit Mercy was not and is not a factor in Detroit. People are more interested in Eastern in Ypsi than Detroit.
Let me ask, is UWM a factor in Milwaukee?
No, Detroit's sojourn for relevance has landed them in the Horizon League where they can take their rightful place at the Table of Comrades and find sustenance in the manly fellowship of friends. In the Horizon they are among peers and given equal voice in addressing the burning issues of that world. A man must know his place and find succor and comfort in that realm.
(http://www.5minutesforspecialneeds.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/kids-table.jpg)
Quote from: Benny B on March 08, 2013, 04:30:13 PM
Providence is on the bubble right now. Dayton sells out their arena. DePaul and SHU are in a downswing but are loaded with tradition. SLU has history with the membership.
Unfortunately, UDM just isn'tlassoing of those classes. I'd schedule you 4 for 1 (though you may just want to take the buy money), but without a shock-the-world commitment to playing at the high major level, we can't play you twice a year.
Seton Hall has been to the NCAAs 9 times. St. Louis has been invited 7 times, with an 8th coming this season. Detroit has been there 6, and has a chance for a 7th bid this year.
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 04:38:32 PM
When Bo was coaching Blue!
Long time ago but Detroit Mercy was not and is not a factor in Detroit. People are more interested in Eastern in Ypsi than Detroit.
Let me ask, is UWM a factor in Milwaukee?
No, Detroit's sojourn for relevance has landed them in the Horizon League where they can take their rightful place at the Table of Comrades and find sustenance in the manly fellowship of friends. In the Horizon they are among peers and given equal voice in addressing the burning issues of that world. A man must know his place and find succor and comfort in that realm.
Well, Bo coached from 68-94 or so, that's a wide time frame.
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2013, 04:48:21 PM
Well, Bo coached from 68-94 or so, that's a wide time frame.
I was there in the early 80's.
Maybe if Dickie V went back to coach and brought all his dirty money with him to buy players, and if he made a 10-year commitment to stay, Detroit would be a good addition just for the comedy factor.
1. It's just Detroit now. No Mercy.
2. I like Ray McCallum. Other than that, no interest.
3. Keefe. Loved the picture of the kids. Did not like the others. Really undermines your view that you are better than all of us.
UDM is playing good ball this year. I have watched them a couple times on FSDetroit. Having said that, they would have to upgrade their facilities and their commitment a great deal before I would personally consider them a candidate for the BEast 2.0.
Quote from: Detfan23 on March 08, 2013, 02:58:44 PM
Would you invite UDM to join the Catholic Conference? Their play has been improving and it would be another midwestern team in the heart of a strong market. I know they are not great, but they play a better game than DePaul, Saint Johns, Providence, and Dayton (proposed team) as of right now. Any takers?
You're best hope is to get into the A10 once schools leave. Need to show a record of success against better competition. If they are better than St. John's why did they lose to them this year? The only reason I am okay with Butler was the 2 tournament runs and the have held their own in the A10. Detroit just doesn't have the track record.
Quote from: tower912 on March 08, 2013, 05:18:46 PM
UDM is playing good ball this year. I have watched them a couple times on FSDetroit. Having said that, they would have to upgrade their facilities and their commitment a great deal before I would personally consider them a candidate for the BEast 2.0.
I really doubt they get an invite.
Some of you sound like fools when talking about Detroit. No way in hell they would be in the Big East. Media market, what market? Detroit draws nothing for fans. Oakland is a better draw in Detroit.
I say this as someone who loves watching Detroit and know their fans who come to Milwaukee every season.
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2013, 04:13:45 PM
Why is this befuddling? A fan of Detroit Mercy comes to the board to see what MU fans thought of them being in the new league, which I'm sure they'd like to be part of, as would many schools. As you can tell, most here are adamantly against it. Question answered.
It's like we just hung out the "He-man woman hater's club" sign, kicked out the girls, and the doorbell rings and it's a girl. Like, didn't you see the sign?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMQ
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 08, 2013, 05:51:40 PM
It's like we just hung out the "He-man woman hater's club" sign, kicked out the girls, and the doorbell rings and it's a girl. Like, didn't you see the sign?
http://youtu.be/wBIC8JTQMMU
"This video is unavailable."
Quote from: frozena pizza on March 08, 2013, 05:12:08 PM
1. It's just Detroit now. No Mercy.
2. I like Ray McCallum. Other than that, no interest.
3. Keefe. Loved the picture of the kids. Did not like the others. Really undermines your view that you are better than all of us.
1. It used to be just Detroit. Now it really is UDM: http://detroittitans.com/documents/2012/12/5/2012-13_MBB_Prospectus__120512_.pdf
2. Ray McCallum is very likeable.
3. True.
Wild ..
The link is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMMU
with a "Q" at the end. Not a "U" .. but every time I post it, Scoop changes that MMU into a MMU. lol .. it did it again. You cannot type M M Q.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBIC8JTQMM add Q
Sorry, no way in hell does Detroit Mercy sniff an invite. They bring absolutely nothing to the table. Let them knock on the A-10's door if they're looking to move.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 08, 2013, 06:52:52 PM
Sorry, no way in hell does Detroit Mercy sniff an invite. They bring absolutely nothing to the table. Let them knock on the A-10's door if they're looking to move.
Dayton's path to the 12 seed would be much clearer.
Quote from: Warriors10 on March 08, 2013, 03:12:13 PM
This a joke?
I'd take all those teams you mentioned (maybe not DePaul) against Detroit any day. Hell, you guys didn't even win the Horizon.
Yeah, screw DePaul. The Catholic 7 don't need the nation's largest Catholic university nor the Chicago market. Not to mention DePaul's chances of playing in the United Center for free or getting a new lakefront stadium. Who needs it? What a waste.
Beat it, Blue Demons.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 08, 2013, 08:53:30 PM
Yeah, screw DePaul. The Catholic 7 don't need the nation's largest Catholic university nor the Chicago market. Not to mention DePaul's chances of playing in the United Center for free or getting a new lakefront stadium. Who needs it? What a waste.
Beat it, Blue Demons.
Been hearing the same sh*t for 20 years. I'll believe it when I see it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 08, 2013, 08:58:12 PM
Been hearing the same sh*t for 20 years. I'll believe it when I see it.
Concur. DePaul is like the Ottoman Empire - Sick Man of Europe/Big East. Lots of potential but never realizing it. They have been an absolute joke since joining the BE. They have won 7 BE games in the past 5 years. That's pathetic.
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 09:22:16 PM
Concur. DePaul is like the Ottoman Empire - Sick Man of Europe/Big East. Lots of potential but never realizing it. They have been an absolute joke since joining the BE. They have won 7 BE games in the past 5 years. That's pathetic.
Not as pathetic as their one particular win in that time span that I remember all too freakin' well. Probably my least favorite regular-season game in 3+ decades as a Marquette student/alum/fan.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 08, 2013, 08:58:12 PM
Been hearing the same sh*t for 20 years. I'll believe it when I see it.
Every single thing I said is absolutely true.
DePaul is the nation's largest Catholic university.
They are in the Chicago market.
DePaul will either A) get a free lease agreement from the United Center or B) get a stadium built by McCormick Place. The days of Allstate Arena are drawing to a close. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20121119/BLOGS02/121119774/united-center-offers-depaul-free-rent-for-blue-demons-games
You don't believe DePaul will ever be good again? Fine. But that's a totally separate issue. DePaul has CONSIDERABLE strengths. Selfishly, it is a chance for Marquette to showcase itself to Chicago's massive recruiting base one night a year. Chicago alumns also get a "local" home game for Marquette. Those reasons alone are enough to want DePaul. Especially over Detroit. I hope THAT was a joke.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 08, 2013, 09:31:18 PM
Every single thing I said is absolutely true.
DePaul is the nation's largest Catholic university.
They are in the Chicago market.
DePaul will either A) get a free lease agreement from the United Center or B) get a stadium built by McCormick Place. The days of Allstate Arena are drawing to a close. http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20121119/BLOGS02/121119774/united-center-offers-depaul-free-rent-for-blue-demons-games
You don't believe DePaul will ever be good again? Fine. But that's a totally separate issue. DePaul has CONSIDERABLE strengths. Selfishly, it is a chance for Marquette to showcase itself to Chicago's massive recruiting base one night a year. Chicago alumns also get a "local" home game for Marquette. Those reasons alone are enough to want DePaul. Especially over Detroit. I hope THAT was a joke.
I don't think anyone is suggesting the conference jettison DePaul but they truly have been horrible in the Big East. They do need to get their sh1t together, though. It's easier to hide an oozing sore when you have 16 teams. Their incompetence will be an issue with just 10 teams. As you correctly point out, they have significant structural advantages and offer Marquette in particular select benefits. But they need to start delivering on the promise now for they will drag the conference down. Perceptions are every thing but the empiricism in this case is god awful ugly.
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 09:46:36 PM
I don't think anyone is suggesting the conference jettison DePaul but they truly have been horrible in the Big East. They do need to get their sh1t together, though. It's easier to hide an oozing sore when you have 16 teams. Their incompetence will be an issue with just 10 teams. As you correctly point out, they have significant structural advantages and offer Marquette in particular select benefits. But they need to start delivering on the promise now for they will drag the conference down. Perceptions are every thing but the empiricism in this case is god awful ugly.
A lot of it is the AD. She needs to go. Nice lady, but simply not cutting it for DPU.
Would I take Detroit Mercy? It depends. Does head coach Ray McCallum have any more sons who are going to be McDonald's All-Americans who are also going to come play for him? If so, then I say yes. Otherwise, no.
Enough other schools out there to add before Detroit. Find the money (there is plenty) to move west and add Catholic schools of Gonzaga and/or St. Mary's. Cost more to travel? Yes. Would Fox Sports 1 up their deal? Yes!
Quote from: GoldenEagle2002 on March 08, 2013, 10:52:28 PM
Enough other schools out there to add before Detroit. Find the money (there is plenty) to move west and add Catholic schools of Gonzaga and/or St. Mary's. Cost more to travel? Yes. Would Fox Sports 1 up their deal? Yes!
St. Mary's? Really?
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 08, 2013, 10:56:41 PM
St. Mary's? Really?
If the choice is Dayton, Detroit, or SMC there is no question - SMC.
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 11:03:11 PM
If the choice is Dayton, Detroit, or SMC there is no question - SMC.
I'm sorry, what is the conference name we just negotiated to keep?
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 11:03:11 PM
If the choice is Dayton, Detroit, or SMC there is no question - SMC.
Thank you. Plus if you were ever going to add Gonzaga (I know this is a pipe dream) you would probably have to throw them a west coast foe. SMC way over Detroit. Dayton over Detroit too for me.
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 08, 2013, 11:07:55 PM
I'm sorry, what is the conference name we just negotiated to keep?
That doesn't mean anything anymore. It's still a brand and origination thing. You mean to tell me you wouldn't take Gonzaga simply because they are in the west?
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 08, 2013, 11:07:55 PM
I'm sorry, what is the conference name we just negotiated to keep?
Does the Big 10 have 12 schools or does the Big 12 have 10 schools?
'But I don't want to go among mad people,' said Alice. 'Oh, you can't help that,' said the cat. 'We're all mad here.'...Lewis Carroll
Exactly Keefe.
Quote from: keefe on March 08, 2013, 11:03:11 PM
If the choice is Dayton, Detroit, or SMC there is no question - SMC.
You mean the team that was just put on 4 years probation for recruiting violations?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 08, 2013, 03:30:52 PM
Jeez guys... The guy comes here from another school and asks his opinion and beat the guy down.
Actually he's a Marquette fan, and has been on Scoop for a long time (a couple years longer than you). Even owns a couple Buzz mugs.
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2013, 11:18:29 PM
You mean the team that was just put on 4 years probation for recruiting violations?
Yep. That SMC. I like their commitment to winning basketball.
Quote from: Norm on March 08, 2013, 11:18:29 PM
You mean the team that was just put on 4 years probation for recruiting violations?
You mean on probation with these weak sanctions?
Saint Mary's will still be allowed to participate in the league tournament and the NCAA tournament but can't play in preseason or in-season tournaments that it is not already contractually obligated to attend. The team also will have a reduction in scholarships from 13 to 11 for the 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons and an elimination of all foreign tours until the start of the 2017-18 season.
Quote from: GoldenEagle2002 on March 08, 2013, 11:13:50 PM
That doesn't mean anything anymore. It's still a brand and origination thing. You mean to tell me you wouldn't take Gonzaga simply because they are in the west?
Me? I'd take Gonzaga in an instant. You? You'd take Gonzaga in an instant. But, either the new Big East or Gonzaga or both don't want it to happen. If distance mattered as little as you think, Gonzaga would
already be in the Big East.
The two most prevalent examples of delusional thinking currently on this board.
a) Distance doesn't matter when putting together an athletic league
b) There's always more money to pay a basketball coach.