and if Gtown and Lville fall, we're champions. What a season!
Quote from: ecompt on March 06, 2013, 08:07:51 PM
and if Gtown and Lville fall, we're champions. What a season!
Incredible way to end the old Big East and begin the new one. Incredible.
I don't think one person here could even predict this situation. Think we're reloading after Jae and DJ graduate, but we're on the verge of potentially winning the Big East.
Sweet! Thank God we won last night!
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 06, 2013, 08:09:46 PM
Incredible way to end the old Big East and begin the new one. Incredible.
And Jim Boeheim is on his way out!! teal?
Ecompt and the rest of the MU faithful, you gotta represent on Saturday. Yell your guts out till ya puke.
Just an amazing season. To think 1 more win and the Warriors are Big East Champs!! This on top of all the positive news coming out regarding the New Big East. Saturday can't get here fast enough. Very proud of this group and the job that Buzz has done this year. PUMPED!!!
Huge deal. How Buzz isn't COY I don't know.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 06, 2013, 08:12:37 PM
Ecompt and the rest of the MU faithful, you gotta represent on Saturday. Yell your guts out till ya puke.
Won't be easy at my age, but I will give it a try.
Its just about banner time! wee!
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 06, 2013, 08:15:12 PM
Huge deal. How Buzz isn't COY I don't know.
If Cuse can win Saturday ... he might be.
We need help to win it outright, but clinching a share is in our own hands. Nice situation to be in.
Correct
Is it technically a share ore is there a tiebreaker of some sort? Although that would be a pretty messy tiebreaker since we split with Gtown, Gtown beat Louisville and Louisville beat is. Just curious. How would seeding work in the tourney? Gtown #1, Louisville #2 and MU #3?
Awesome, just awesome!!!
Quote from: GoldenEagle2002 on March 06, 2013, 08:23:06 PM
Is it technically a share ore is there a tiebreaker of some sort? Although that would be a pretty messy tiebreaker since we split with Gtown, Gtown beat Louisville and Louisville beat is. Just curious. How would seeding work in the tourney? Gtown #1, Louisville #2 and MU #3?
We would be co-champions. The BE awards split championships. The only tie-breaking is for the tournament, which would be as you list.
Thanks drewm88. I figured but wasn't 100% sure. Makes sense.
Let's go Syracuse and ND (yuck)!!!
Hopefully I'll have no voice left when I leave the Garden Saturday.
This SATURDAY should have been NATIONAL MARQUETTE DAY!!!
Hells yeah...Thank you Nova!!
Win, Advance a game and Repeat, continue through April 8, 2013
Quote from: Jamil_toMU10 on March 06, 2013, 08:11:02 PM
I don't think one person here could even predict this situation. Think we're reloading after Jae and DJ graduate, but we're on the verge of potentially winning the Big East.
Brew City was the only true believer.
Guru, you here? Did you jump off the cliff too early? Nova beats the top 4 teams in the BE at home yet somehow that loss is inexcusable to him...
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 08:40:40 PM
Brew City was the only true believer.
+1. He always said it could happen.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 08:40:40 PM
Brew City was the only true believer.
I was as well. Knew people were sleeping on the talent on this team all along.
Quote from: muguru on March 06, 2013, 08:47:53 PM
I was as well. Knew people were sleeping on the talent on this team all along.
Like last night?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 08:40:40 PM
Brew City was the only true believer.
Is Brew really waiting until Selection Sunday to deliver the well-deserved e-Brag Thread? I suppose we could just win the actual Big East
Regular Season Championship the night before.
Looks like the New Big East will get five this year: MU, GU, Nova, Creighton, Butler. Would expect all to be competitive next year, as well as St. John's and Providence. The Friars are 9-8 and could secure a winning BE season with a win at UConn...if Cotton returns next year they'd be tough, without him they'll still be better than usual.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 06, 2013, 08:40:51 PM
Guru, you here? Did you jump off the cliff too early? Nova beats the top 4 teams in the BE at home yet somehow that loss is inexcusable to him...
Well, though I am VERY happy with the results of tonights game obviously....now just think back to the what if...MU wins @ Nova(a game they should have won) and guess what?? They are in 1st place all alone, and could clinch it outright with a win on Saturday.
Sometimes you have to look at how things are "set up". Tonight for example...GU was on an 11 game winning streak, law of averages said they were very over due to lose...it happened. Cuse had won 8 in a row...again, it was set up for them to lose. UL had just lost a tough one at home to Cuse...classic example of the "carry over" effect. None of those things applied when MU went there.
Quote from: muguru on March 06, 2013, 08:47:53 PM
I was as well. Knew people were sleeping on the talent on this team all along.
You've always been a true believer:
11 MUScoop / Hangin' at the Al / Re: Rrrrrutgers game thread on: March 05, 2013, 06:51:14 PM
WTF is wrong with this team on the road?? This is so disgusting! I have never in all my years of watching college BB see a team that looks so completely different on the road as compared to at home. You lose to Rutgers?? What a damn joke! Way to go guys! With everything on the line, this is how you perform??
Quote from: Steve Buscemi on March 06, 2013, 08:51:15 PM
Like last night?
Yes....talented teams win games like that, and they all have struggles like that at times, but the key is winning them.
Quote from: muguru on March 06, 2013, 08:53:06 PM
Sometimes you have to look at how things are "set up". Tonight for example...GU was on an 11 game winning streak, law of averages said they were very over due to lose...it happened. Cuse had won 8 in a row...again, it was set up for them to lose. UL had just lost a tough one at home to Cuse...classic example of the "carry over" effect. None of those things applied when MU went there.
Law of averages doesn't apply.
Carry over effect doesn't apply.
Using the logic you present you could predict the days Wainwright wears a tan suit while the rest of the staff wears a dark suit.
Quote from: ecompt on March 06, 2013, 08:17:02 PM
Won't be easy at my age, but I will give it a try.
You're someone who's been there before - isn't this fun? - and amazing!
Winning the title will be Buzz' most impressive accomplishment at Marquette.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 08:40:40 PM
Brew City was the only true believer.
Hey, ive been very positive this entire year.
Quote from: muguru on March 06, 2013, 09:01:02 PM
Yes....talented teams win games like that, and they all have struggles like that at times, but the key is winning them.
I was referring to you... calling the team's performance a joke and disgusting. I wouldn't say you were always a true believer.
Quote from: Steve Buscemi on March 06, 2013, 09:30:24 PM
I was referring to you... calling the team's performance a joke and disgusting. I wouldn't say you were always a true believer.
Okay, believe what you want, but if the team wasn't as talented as I believed they are, I wouldn't have said that about their performance, right?? Now if they weren't talented and that kind of performance was expected, I wouldn't have said that. make sense??
Quote from: muguru on March 06, 2013, 08:53:06 PM
Well, though I am VERY happy with the results of tonights game obviously....now just think back to the what if...MU wins @ Nova(a game they should have won) and guess what?? They are in 1st place all alone, and could clinch it outright with a win on Saturday.
Sometimes you have to look at how things are "set up". Tonight for example...GU was on an 11 game winning streak, law of averages said they were very over due to lose...it happened. Cuse had won 8 in a row...again, it was set up for them to lose. UL had just lost a tough one at home to Cuse...classic example of the "carry over" effect. None of those things applied when MU went there.
so what you're saying is that mu shouldn't be in the position they are because they are long over due to lose at home? give it a rest...you act like g-town and louisville haven't had an unexpected loss this year. it's like saying if g-town would have lost in game 5 or 6 of their last 12 games it would have been a bad loss, but losing in game 12 is ok because it's over due. what the hell?!?!
If only I felt we actually deserved the big east championship. Don't get me wrong we have a solid team thanks to our defense, but nothing more than that. Unless we pound St. Johns to the ground, my opinion will not change. We have received about as many breaks as a team could; key players out in half our games, frantic comebacks just to beat poor or average teams, a big ft advantage against SU. Now a ridiculous ft advantage for villanova to even give us a shot at winning it outright. I just wish this potential accomplishment didn't feel so hollow.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
If only I felt we actually deserved the big east championship. Don't get me wrong we have a solid team thanks to our defense, but nothing more than that. Unless we pound St. Johns to the ground, my opinion will not change. We have received about as many breaks as a team could; key players out in half our games, frantic comebacks just to beat poor or average teams, a big ft advantage against SU. Now a ridiculous ft advantage for villanova to even give us a shot at winning it outright. I just wish this potential accomplishment didn't feel so hollow.
If we have the best record in the league, we are champions... what is "deserve?"
This is like wasting your time hating that 2+2=4
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 06, 2013, 09:56:17 PM
This is like wasting your time hating that 2+2=4
that always has bothered me.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
If only I felt we actually deserved the big east championship. Don't get me wrong we have a solid team thanks to our defense, but nothing more than that. Unless we pound St. Johns to the ground, my opinion will not change. We have received about as many breaks as a team could; key players out in half our games, frantic comebacks just to beat poor or average teams, a big ft advantage against SU. Now a ridiculous ft advantage for villanova to even give us a shot at winning it outright. I just wish this potential accomplishment didn't feel so hollow.
You must not watch a lot of basketball because what you describe is how teams progress and win throughout a season.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
If only I felt we actually deserved the big east championship. Don't get me wrong we have a solid team thanks to our defense, but nothing more than that. Unless we pound St. Johns to the ground, my opinion will not change. We have received about as many breaks as a team could; key players out in half our games, frantic comebacks just to beat poor or average teams, a big ft advantage against SU. Now a ridiculous ft advantage for villanova to even give us a shot at winning it outright. I just wish this potential accomplishment didn't feel so hollow.
You tell 'em, statnik! A true champion doesn't get breaks along the way!
::)
nm
Quote from: sixstrings03 on March 06, 2013, 09:56:17 PM
If we have the best record in the league, we are champions... what is "deserve?"
This is like wasting your time hating that 2+2=4
I'm sorry, its moreso the fact that I don't think we pass the " eye test" and until we put in a good performance or two on the road or in the BET, I won't think that. Clearly they will still win it and deserve it in that case, I just think we're still only the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. We will struggle in the NCAA tournament if they let the players play (well davante will at least).
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:07:18 PM
I'm sorry, its moreso the fact that I don't think we pass the " eye test" and until we put in a good performance or two on the road or in the BET, I won't think that. Clearly they will still win it and deserve it in that case, I just think we're still only the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. We will struggle in the NCAA tournament if they let the players play (well davante will at least).
the fact that beating the crap out of st. johns tomorrow would make you feel better about this team says a lot...
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:07:18 PM
I'm sorry, its moreso the fact that I don't think we pass the " eye test" and until we put in a good performance or two on the road or in the BET, I won't think that. Clearly they will still win it and deserve it in that case, I just think we're still only the 4th or 5th best team in the conference. We will struggle in the NCAA tournament if they let the players play (well davante will at least).
How many of the last six games did you watch? Pitt, Hall (especially the second half), Cuse and ND did not pass the "eye test?" Or does one bad game at Nova and a struggle at Rutgers offset those four great games? Can a team that is not 18-0 pass your eye test?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 06, 2013, 10:11:16 PM
How many of the last six games did you watch? Pitt, Hall (especially the second half), Cuse and ND did not pass the "eye test?" Or does one bad game at Nova and a struggle at Rutgers offset those four great games? Can a team that is not 18-0 pass your eye test?
Pitt game we played well, that game we passed the eye test. Seton Hall was terrible, so even a 2nd half surge to win the game going away was not that impressive. Syracuse we performed well, but taking off any homer glasses, we benefitted from home court advantage with the refs (even with that being said, we shot average). Kudos to us for making the free throws, though. Notre Dame we played well, too, but even with a hyped up crowd, and Cooley basically mia, we kept the game close due to our mistakes and difficulty rebounding. We go through too many stretches where we play poorly on offense and turn the ball over for me to think we are a top 2 or 3 Big East team. Near the top in making clutch plays, yes and that says a lot about our team's heart, but in the end, our inconsistent play from game to game and play to play will probably cost us.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 08:40:40 PM
Brew City was the only true believer.
I'll be honest, I thought 2-4 was more realistic. I had us at 13-5 preseason and felt consistently that was realistic as I expected the team to improve markedly as the season went on. I remember when Villanova beat Syracuse and Louisville in the same week, I felt at that point like winning at 'Nova might end up deciding the title. We didn't, so I'm glad GT didn't because it gives us a shot at sharing at worst. Still, that 'Nova game would have likely been a title decider for UL, MU, or GT had any of us won it.
Here's hoping everything breaks right on Saturday and we get the league all to ourselves. Regardless, feeling very good about this team right now.
Please identify which team you believe to be the best in our conference based on the criteria you have stated:
- total consistency throughout every minute of every game
- no FT advantage in any game
- no home court advantage in any game
- passes your eye test
- no wins where the other team had any players ineligible/injured
- no stretches of poor play
- no turning the ball over
Which team is that again? I seem to have missed their games this season... ::)
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:18:02 PM
Pitt game we played well, that game we passed the eye test. Seton Hall was terrible, so even a 2nd half surge to win the game going away was not that impressive. Syracuse we performed well, but taking off any homer glasses, we benefitted from home court advantage with the refs (even with that being said, we shot average). Kudos to us for making the free throws, though. Notre Dame we played well, too, but even with a hyped up crowd, and Cooley basically mia, we kept the game close due to our mistakes and difficulty rebounding. We go through too many stretches where we play poorly on offense and turn the ball over for me to think we are a top 2 or 3 Big East team. Near the top in making clutch plays, yes and that says a lot about our team's heart, but in the end, our inconsistent play from game to game and play to play will probably cost us.
Congratulations .. you are the toughest grader in America. This rundown suggests no team in college basketball has passed your eye-test.
Yes! I'm so pumped that GU lost! I am really excited to be on the verge of actually winning a conference title!
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:07:18 PM
We will struggle in the NCAA tournament if they let the players play (well davante will at least).
We may well struggle in the NCAAs but I can guarantee you they will not "let the players play" more in the tourney than they do in what is considered (with the Big 10) the most physical league in the country.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on March 06, 2013, 10:26:30 PM
Congratulations .. you are the toughest grader in America. This rundown suggests no team in college basketball has passed your eye-test.
So you don't think teams like Gonzaga and Miami (sans tonight) pass my eye-test? They sure do, because they were competitive in the few losses they did have, they have a multi-faceted attack (which we do as well but have not used it to our fullest this season). Louisville, Syracuse, Georgetown are better than us I believe. Part of the reason is because these teams have all had games where they have manhandled opponents at full strength (or in Syracuse's case, they beat a very good Louisville team on the road, while we weren't even competitive with L'ville). An overtime against UConn, an overtime win at Pitt that was one of our better performances, a last second win against G'town when they were coming off a long break and played one of their worst games of the year, largely do not impress me. Again, we are good, but I don't think we're better than those three teams.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 10:38:29 PM
We may well struggle in the NCAAs but I can guarantee you they will not "let the players play" more in the tourney than they do in what is considered (with the Big 10) the most physical league in the country.
How come home games take over two hours to play? Both teams nearly always get to the double bonus in Big East games. Some games (usually on the road) they let the teams play, but it seems they call more ticky tack crap in the Big East than they do in most of the top leagues (Big 10 is a case in point).
Haha some people are sad. Crying over (potentially) winning the Big East, or having to (potentially) share the Big East title.
Give me a 16-way tie every year of my life and I will die the happiest man alive.
Some people here sound like Badger fans. "We beat Indiana at Indiana. How are we not better than Marquette?" Well, does 60-50 ring a bell? Hmm...
Syracuse is better than us because they beat Louisville and Louisville beat us? What happened in the Marquette vs. Syracuse game? Wait, that game doesn't matter. Only games NOT involving Marquette count.
Law of averages suggests certain teams will lose on the road at Villinova, but it wasn't Marquette's time? Interesting theory. In that case, everyone in the country should finish the year .500. There should be no winning (or losing) streaks, ever.
Had Marquette beat Villinova, would losing to Rutgers at Rutgers have been OK because we would've been on a big winning streak, so we would've been due?
Since we have found out that a win on Saturday guarantees at least a share of the Big East title, I have literally read some of the dumbest things I've ever read on MUScoop, which is some insanely stupid stuff.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:40:40 PM
So you don't think teams like Gonzaga and Miami (sans tonight) pass my eye-test? They sure do, because they were competitive in the few losses they did have, they have a multi-faceted attack (which we do as well but have not used it to our fullest this season). Louisville, Syracuse, Georgetown are better than us I believe. Part of the reason is because these teams have all had games where they have manhandled opponents at full strength (or in Syracuse's case, they beat a very good Louisville team on the road, while we weren't even competitive with L'ville). An overtime against UConn, an overtime win at Pitt that was one of our better performances, a last second win against G'town when they were coming off a long break and played one of their worst games of the year, largely do not impress me. Again, we are good, but I don't think we're better than those three teams.
Hold on a second...Miami passed the "eye test" in their losses? Did they pass the "eye test" when lost by 19 to Arizona? Or when they got drubbed by 15 to a miserable Wake Forest team? Every single team in college basketball has a fatal flaw this year and most have a bad loss. Gonzaga hasn't played anyone in months...to me they don't pass the "eye test" because I haven't seen them play a single decent team. Even Indiana who has been #1 for most of the season but they laid an egg against a bubble team in Minnesota.
MU is 3-2 against the top of the the conference (Georgetown, Louisville, Notre Dame and Syracuse). So Marquette doesn't look pretty when they win? So what? There are no style points awarded in March. Just win 6 games looking like dog crap and hang a banner. That's fine by me.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:42:11 PM
How come home games take over two hours to play? Both teams nearly always get to the double bonus in Big East games. Some games (usually on the road) they let the teams play, but it seems they call more ticky tack crap in the Big East than they do in most of the top leagues (Big 10 is a case in point).
You are really grasping at straws.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:18:02 PM
Pitt game we played well, that game we passed the eye test. Seton Hall was terrible, so even a 2nd half surge to win the game going away was not that impressive. Syracuse we performed well, but taking off any homer glasses, we benefitted from home court advantage with the refs (even with that being said, we shot average). Kudos to us for making the free throws, though. Notre Dame we played well, too, but even with a hyped up crowd, and Cooley basically mia, we kept the game close due to our mistakes and difficulty rebounding. We go through too many stretches where we play poorly on offense and turn the ball over for me to think we are a top 2 or 3 Big East team. Near the top in making clutch plays, yes and that says a lot about our team's heart, but in the end, our inconsistent play from game to game and play to play will probably cost us.
Did you watch that Cuse game (no snide tone, I'm genuinely wondering if you saw the whole game). Many of the fouls came VERY late in the game from Cuse trying to play catchup. And even before that, we had the advantage because Gardner was a monster down low. Cuse didn't get as many free throw attempts because they were shooting jump shots all night.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 10:42:11 PM
How come home games take over two hours to play? Both teams nearly always get to the double bonus in Big East games. Some games (usually on the road) they let the teams play, but it seems they call more ticky tack crap in the Big East than they do in most of the top leagues (Big 10 is a case in point).
I don't think that's the case. Refs alternate between conferences
during the season.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees
Click on any of the referees and then click on schedule. A ref will be doing Maryland-Wake one night and Kstate-Ttech two nights later. Unless the refs get together before the game and purposefully call more ticky tack crap simply because of the conference name, I don't think this theory holds much water.
Quote from: MarquetteVol on March 06, 2013, 10:54:54 PM
Hold on a second...Miami passed the "eye test" in their losses? Did they pass the "eye test" when lost by 19 to Arizona? Or when they got drubbed by 15 to a miserable Wake Forest team? Every single team in college basketball has a fatal flaw this year and most have a bad loss. Gonzaga hasn't played anyone in months...to me they don't pass the "eye test" because I haven't seen them play a single decent team. Even Indiana who has been #1 for most of the season but they laid an egg against a bubble team in Minnesota.
MU is 3-2 against the top of the the conference (Georgetown, Louisville, Notre Dame and Syracuse). So Marquette doesn't look pretty when they win? So what? There are no style points awarded in March. Just win 6 games looking like dog crap and hang a banner. That's fine by me.
All three of Miami's losses in the non-conference were when key players (primarily Reggie Johnson) were out with injury. Bottom line, they have played as well as anyone in the ACC (stomped Duke and UNC better than we have stomped ANY of our opponents) so yes, they have passed the eye test. Indiana has as well, it takes teams playing at the top of their game to beat them (another mark of a great team), as OSU and Wisconsin did to win on their home court. You may think these are arbitrary standards, but trust me, I watch a lot of college ball, and have for the better part of ten years, and this MU team isn't as good as half (or in this case, 3 or 4) of MU's eight tournament teams in a row. So I suppose I should enjoy it, and still will, but with the caveat that this does not legitimate them as the BEast's best team this year.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 06, 2013, 11:16:17 PM
I don't think that's the case. Refs alternate between conferences during the season.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees
Click on any of the referees and then click on schedule. A ref will be doing Maryland-Wake one night and Kstate-Ttech two nights later. Unless the refs get together before the game and purposefully call more ticky tack crap simply because of the conference name, I don't think this theory holds much water.
I've decided it's either that or Big East teams foul an awful lot, which doesn't exactly help the Big East's case for being a good conference itself (moreso says that many of its teams are not fundamentally sound). Which is it? Honestly it seems like a combination of both to me.
Quote from: muguru on March 06, 2013, 08:53:06 PM
Well, though I am VERY happy with the results of tonights game obviously....now just think back to the what if...MU wins @ Nova(a game they should have won) and guess what?? They are in 1st place all alone, and could clinch it outright with a win on Saturday.
If you're going to lament a Big East loss, I think the game to be upset about is at Cincinnati. I thought we had that game when we got it to OT. Villanova just beat us (or pressured us into beating ourselves, if you prefer), and the game wasn't as close as the final score.
Quote from: MarquetteVol on March 06, 2013, 10:54:54 PM
Hold on a second...Miami passed the "eye test" in their losses? Did they pass the "eye test" when lost by 19 to Arizona? Or when they got drubbed by 15 to a miserable Wake Forest team? Every single team in college basketball has a fatal flaw this year and most have a bad loss. Gonzaga hasn't played anyone in months...to me they don't pass the "eye test" because I haven't seen them play a single decent team. Even Indiana who has been #1 for most of the season but they laid an egg against a bubble team in Minnesota.
MU is 3-2 against the top of the the conference (Georgetown, Louisville, Notre Dame and Syracuse). So Marquette doesn't look pretty when they win? So what? There are no style points awarded in March. Just win 6 games looking like dog crap and hang a banner. That's fine by me.
A couple things. One, you also didn't mention that Miami has their own Green Bay game, as they lost to Florida Gulf Coast. Two, you omitted Pitt, who is likely to get the 4th double bye and is as good as ND or Syracuse, IMO, making us 5-2 against the top of the BE.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 11:20:30 PM
So I suppose I should enjoy it, and still will, but with the caveat that this does not legitimate them as the BEast's best team this year.
Yeah...I think you should just enjoy it.
Seriously, I hate when people have to throw water on the fire like this. Marquette's job is to win the games they have on their schedule. If they end up as co-BE champs because of it, that's wonderful! Or are they supposed to put an asterisk on the banner because they didn't pass "statnik's eye test?"
The 76-77 Marquette team was arguably not McGuire's best during the 70s. Does that de-legitimize their national title in your eyes too?
It's just sports. Be happy.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 11:20:30 PM
All three of Miami's losses in the non-conference were when key players (primarily Reggie Johnson) were out with injury. Bottom line, they have played as well as anyone in the ACC (stomped Duke and UNC better than we have stomped ANY of our opponents) so yes, they have passed the eye test. Indiana has as well, it takes teams playing at the top of their game to beat them (another mark of a great team), as OSU and Wisconsin did to win on their home court. You may think these are arbitrary standards, but trust me, I watch a lot of college ball, and have for the better part of ten years, and this MU team isn't as good as half (or in this case, 3 or 4) of MU's eight tournament teams in a row. So I suppose I should enjoy it, and still will, but with the caveat that this does not legitimate them as the BEast's best team this year.
Ravens fans should be embarrassed that their Super Bowl run was helped largely by a Denver safety misjudging a pass. They also didn't pass the eye test in their loss to Philly or their 30-point defeat to Houston. They weren't the best team in football! They just got some breaks! Similarly, the Packers shouldn't feel good about their Super Bowl win a couple years ago because they needed a flukish loss by the Giants just to make the Playoffs that season. The Cardinals won the WS against Texas because Nelson Cruz violated a cardinal rule of baseball (no pun intended) and let what would have been the series-clinching out go over his head. Give back you rings, St. Louis! UConn finished 9th in the BE in 10-11 but they somehow were allowed to win the National Championship. Kemba Walker is a fraud!
I don't think statnik is that far off. The best team in the Big EAST is Louisville, and it's not even that close. #mubb is probably 3rd or 4th best in the conference.
Having said that, I'm not going to feel guilty about winning the title. Not even a little.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
If only I felt we actually deserved the big east championship. Don't get me wrong we have a solid team thanks to our defense, but nothing more than that. Unless we pound St. Johns to the ground, my opinion will not change. We have received about as many breaks as a team could; key players out in half our games, frantic comebacks just to beat poor or average teams, a big ft advantage against SU. Now a ridiculous ft advantage for villanova to even give us a shot at winning it outright. I just wish this potential accomplishment didn't feel so hollow.
OK, Debbie Downer. Go root for N.J.I.T., Stony Brook, Elon or some other team that "deserves" its conference title. Jeesh.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 07, 2013, 07:50:30 AM
Yeah...I think you should just enjoy it.
Seriously, I hate when people have to throw water on the fire like this. Marquette's job is to win the games they have on their schedule. If they end up as co-BE champs because of it, that's wonderful! Or are they supposed to put an asterisk on the banner because they didn't pass "statnik's eye test?"
The 76-77 Marquette team was arguably not McGuire's best during the 70s. Does that de-legitimize their national title in your eyes too?
It's just sports. Be happy.
This.
The Green Bay Packers were a 10-6 team when they won the Super Bowl. The next year they went 15-1 and lost their first playoff game.
Sports (and life) isn't always neat and tidy. The best team doesn't always win it all. That's what makes the games exciting. Is MU the uncontested best team in the Big East? By most measures, no. But who cares. If they win Saturday, it is a legitimate Big East regular season championship, and if they win Saturday, they deserve it. Just savor this. Its definitely a "bare feet in the wet grass" moment for MU.
Quote from: statnik on March 06, 2013, 09:53:43 PM
If only I felt we actually deserved the big east championship. Don't get me wrong we have a solid team thanks to our defense, but nothing more than that. Unless we pound St. Johns to the ground, my opinion will not change. We have received about as many breaks as a team could; key players out in half our games, frantic comebacks just to beat poor or average teams, a big ft advantage against SU. Now a ridiculous ft advantage for villanova to even give us a shot at winning it outright. I just wish this potential accomplishment didn't feel so hollow.
I think we can all agree that our FF banner makes everyone feel hollow, as well... I don't think we were the 4th best team in the nation in 2003... let's start an email campaign to have that taken down for our peace of mind. Maybe also an apology to Kentucky for preventing them from getting to the FF that they deserved.
I believe the '77 team wasn't really the best team that year either....
If MU wins.....there is nothing hollow about it. A team with good talent but no stars was undefeated at home and 5-4 on the road. The road wins came primarily against bad teams. So bleepin what? Beating ranked teams on the road is tough. MU won all the games it was supposed to, has no bad in-conference losses, and won a couple on the road it probably shouldn't have. How a season like that can feel 'hollow' or less than acceptable is beyond me. 23-7 and 14-4 is never going to be a disappointment unless we are pre-season # 1. Holy unjustified sense of entitlement, batman.
FWIW, the eye test says the best team in the league is Louisville.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 07, 2013, 07:50:30 AM
It's just sports. Be happy.
+1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZgU0cT_TfI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZgU0cT_TfI)
Quote from: MisterDMU on March 07, 2013, 09:31:55 AM
+1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZgU0cT_TfI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZgU0cT_TfI)
I thought I was going to click on this and hear Bobby McFerrin.
Quote from: tower912 on March 07, 2013, 09:07:05 AM
FWIW, the eye test says the best team in the league is Louisville.
Right. And that is one reason why I would love a BE regular season title. I really think MU would have a tough go at winning the tournament. I also don't see anything like a Final Four for this year's team either - unless the match ups are quite favorable.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 07, 2013, 09:41:17 AM
Right. And that is one reason why I would love a BE regular season title. I really think MU would have a tough go at winning the tournament. I also don't see anything like a Final Four for this year's team either - unless the match ups are quite favorable.
But then that would be hollow, wouldn't it?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 07, 2013, 09:46:04 AM
But then that would be hollow, wouldn't it?
Not even a little bit.
Quote from: tower912 on March 07, 2013, 09:07:05 AM
If MU wins.....there is nothing hollow about it. A team with good talent but no stars was undefeated at home and 5-4 on the road. The road wins came primarily against bad teams. So bleepin what? Beating ranked teams on the road is tough. MU won all the game it was supposed to, has no bad in-conference losses, and won a couple on the road it probably shouldn't have. How a season like that can feel 'hollow' or less than acceptable is beyond me. 23-7 and 14-4 is never going to be a disappointment unless we are pre-season # 1. Holy unjustified sense of entitlement, batman.
FWIW, the eye test says the best team in the league is Louisville.
+1000. Louisville is IMO the best team. After that it's a mosh pit that includes GTown, Pitt, Syracuse, ND and us. Villanova, Cincy, UCONN and Providence aren't far behind.
Far from ringing "hollow", winning under these circumstances should be celebrated as an incredible accomplishment. In our first six years of Big East play we never finished higher than 4th. Backing up a 2nd place season with a totally unexpected championship in the final season of the most storied league in college basketball history would be, after our FF appearance in 2003, our greatest feat since 1977.