Brett McMurphy @McMurphyESPN
Catholic 7 to keep all NCAA tourney $; legal fees/consultants will cost Big East $15M sources tell @ESPN
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SOLID!
That's incorrect. The (old) Big East is keeping the money.
This link was attached to the end of the tweet:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on March 05, 2013, 09:48:06 PM
That's incorrect. The (old) Big East is keeping the money.
This link was attached to the end of the tweet:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report
QuoteThe so-called Catholic 7, which is expected to add at least two more members before it begins competition in the 2013-14 school year, is made up of Georgetown, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette and DePaul. Butler, Xavier and Creighton also will join the league, which will begin play in 2013, sources told McMurphy.
The new Big East has a television deal from Fox waiting for it, though it still needs to hire a commissioner and set up a league office.
As part of the Catholic 7 schools' exit agreement with the Big East, the schools will keep all of their NCAA tournament units, sources told McMurphy
Nope, tourney shares are kept.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on March 05, 2013, 09:48:06 PM
That's incorrect. The (old) Big East is keeping the money.
This link was attached to the end of the tweet:
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9019093/big-east-football-schools-keep-close-110-million-league-split-according-report
Reading is a key to life
You are wrong trying to prove someone else wrong
As part of the Catholic 7 schools' exit agreement with the Big East, the schools will keep all of their NCAA tournament units, sources told McMurphy
So Creighton is the 10th member? Nice!!
Quote from: LastWarrior on March 05, 2013, 09:57:25 PM
So Creighton is the 10th member? Nice!!
Sources say. Awesome.
Dayton sleeps easy tonight knowing they won't have to join the inferior C7 and continue their reign of terror over the A10.
This is great--now we just need MU, G'town, and Nova* to make some good runs this year to set us up nicely for the new conference.
Nothing wrong with this deal for the C7 - name, tournament venue, the credits they earned, and a bit of cash. And it's much less depressing watching road games on television in packed gyms in Cincinnati, Indy, and Omaha instead of four fans in attendance in Tampa or north Jersey.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on March 05, 2013, 10:06:25 PM
My mistake.
No worries. None of these writers do a very good job separating the LEAST from the C7 when they make those sentences. Either way, feels like we're making out pretty well here. Can't wait for the league to be announced officially!
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 05, 2013, 10:13:51 PM
No worries. None of these writers do a very good job separating the LEAST from the C7 when they make those sentences. Either way, feels like we're making out pretty well here. Can't wait for the league to be announced officially!
Absolutely. This deal almost sounds too good to be true.
Anyone know what the shares are worth? By my count, here's what we're looking at for the new conference:
2009:
Butler - 64
MU - 32
Xavier - 16
Villanova - 4
2010:
MU - 64
Georgetown - 64
Villanova - 32
Xavier - 16
Butler - 2
2011:
Villanova - 64
Xavier - 64
Georgetown - 64
St. John's - 64
MU - 16
Butler - 2
2012:
Creighton - 32
Georgetown - 32
MU - 16
Xavier - 16
Obviously, we don't know how they'll split the shares in the new BE, but how do we do it currently?
Quote from: PTM on March 05, 2013, 10:00:37 PM
Sources say. Awesome.
Dayton sleeps easy tonight knowing they won't have to join the inferior C7 and continue their reign of terror over the A10.
Joining a new conference at this juncture would only avert much-needed focus from the path to the A10 12th seed. Bigger fish to fry.
Quote from: drewm88 on March 05, 2013, 10:30:28 PM
Anyone know what the shares are worth? By my count, here's what we're looking at for the new conference:
I don't know how we split them currently, but each team earns 1 unit by making the tournament and earn 1 additional unit for each round they advance. I think each unit is worth about $250,000 but it varies.
Quote from: drewm88 on March 05, 2013, 10:30:28 PM
Anyone know what the shares are worth? By my count, here's what we're looking at for the new conference:
2009:
Butler - 64
MU - 32
Xavier - 16
Villanova - 4
2010:
MU - 64
Georgetown - 64
Villanova - 32
Xavier - 16
Butler - 2
2011:
Villanova - 64
Xavier - 64
Georgetown - 64
St. John's - 64
MU - 16
Butler - 2
2012:
Creighton - 32
Georgetown - 32
MU - 16
Xavier - 16
Obviously, we don't know how they'll split the shares in the new BE, but how do we do it currently?
I'm very skeptical that Xavier or Butler will be allowed to bring any of their past NCAA shares (including any they earn this year) with them to the new league. The C7 were in a unique situation. When Marquette left Conference USA, we left behind all of our tournament shares. I'm sure that that will be the case for any schools leaving conferences to join the C7.
Good point, Murs. Wasn't thinking.
Meanwhile, I found Benny's post from last year explaining the finances.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32345.0
Did some rough math as to what we still have coming to us (the C7) for tournament shares. This is based on Benny's info (see link above). He estimated that a 2012 share was worth $242k. I'm making them all $250k for the sake of easier math. So this will overstate it.
2008:
MU - 32 ($500k/year, 1 year left) $500k
Georgetown - 32 $500 k
Villanova - 16 $750 k
Total - $1.75m
2009:
MU - 32 $1m ($500k/year x 2 years)
Villanova - 4 $2.5 m
Total: $3.5 m
2010:
MU - 64 $750k ($250k/year x 3 years)
Georgetown - 64 $750k
Villanova - 32 $1.5m
Total: $3m
2011:
Villanova - 64 $1m ($250k/year x 4 years)
Georgetown - 64 $1m
St. John's - 64 $1m
MU - 16 $3m
Total: $6m
2012:
Georgetown - 32 $2.5m ($500k/year x 5 years)
MU - 16 $3.75m
Total: $6.25m
Grand total: $20.5 million. Remember, that's rounded up a decent amount, but it's safe to say the tourney shares are in excess of $15 million, plus another few million at least from us and Georgetown this year.
Hope my 11:00 math & logic hold up when I look again tomorrow.
Edit: That math didn't hold up. Apparently 1+1+1+3 = 6. Whoops. Adjusted.
This seems to be a pretty good deal with keeping the tournament shares - but the best part might be no Dayton mention as joining the league!
Quote from: drewm88 on March 05, 2013, 11:04:06 PM
Grand total: $19.5 million. Remember, that's rounded up a decent amount, but it's safe to say the tourney shares are in excess of $15 million, plus another few million at least from us and Georgetown this year.
So they are using the tourney share money to set up the new conference, plus have some left over, plus they keep about $1.5M each from the BE, get the FOX contract starting next year, avoided all exit fees, get the BE name and the MSG location.
Honestly, this has worked out better than I ever thought it would!
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 05, 2013, 10:47:34 PM
I'm very skeptical that Xavier or Butler will be allowed to bring any of their past NCAA shares (including any they earn this year) with them to the new league. The C7 were in a unique situation. When Marquette left Conference USA, we left behind all of our tournament shares. I'm sure that that will be the case for any schools leaving conferences to join the C7.
Xavier has a sweetheart deal with the A10 where they get to keep all (or almost all) of the tournament shares they generate. This was meant to keep them happy so they were not the workhorse feeding the mouth's of the bottom feeders.
Also not sure what Creighton's deal is in the MVC. Their poster here said they could leave anytime without an exit fee, not sure if they also take their credits from last year and this year.
Quote from: chapman on March 06, 2013, 08:33:10 AM
Also not sure what Creighton's deal is in the MVC. Their poster here said they could leave anytime without an exit fee, not sure if they also take their credits from last year and this year.
Exit fee from what I've heard is 50K and we would not be taking our credits with us...
Question is will the conference be considered mid major?
Quote from: Jet915 on March 06, 2013, 08:46:14 AM
Exit fee from what I've heard is 50K and we would not be taking our credits with us...
Hopefully the remaining MVC schools don't spend the exit fee all in one place.
Looks like the total from 2011 should be $6, bringing the value to approximately $20.5M.
Of that, contributions by school are:
44% Marquette
28% Nova
24% G'Town
5% St. Johns
Prov, S Hall, DePaul -- you're welcome.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on March 06, 2013, 08:46:53 AM
Question is will the conference be considered mid major?
Only by those who don't know college basketball and who are obsessed with labeling conferences as such.
Quote from: Jet915 on March 06, 2013, 08:46:14 AM
Exit fee from what I've heard is 50K and we would not be taking our credits with us...
And you will more than make up for both after one year's television revenue.
Is there an announcement on Thursday from the Big East? Is it supposed to name teams? I've read there is, but nothing official from what I can tell.
Yes, I would like all this to be officially settled so we can move on to better topics like MU basketball.
Quote from: Chili on March 06, 2013, 08:24:13 AM
Xavier has a sweetheart deal with the A10 where they get to keep all (or almost all) of the tournament shares they generate. This was meant to keep them happy so they were not the workhorse feeding the mouth's of the bottom feeders.
My understanding is that the tournament shares are the property of the
conference per NCAA regulation. That is why they are left behind when a team leaves a conference. There is an exception for the C7 because of the number of teams leaving, and the fact that they are staying together to form a new conference. Once a conference gets the cash they can distribute it anyway that they want which is how Xavier can get most of what they generate. But, don't expect Xavier to be bringing its shares with it from the A10.
Where UConn, Cincy and South Florida make out like bandits is starting this year they'll share (with the C7 schools) West Virgina's 2008 sweet sixteen shares, and starting next year they get four more years of tournament shares from West Virginia, and five year's of shares from Pitt, Syracuse, Louisville and Notre Dame. Not too shabby. So, while the C7 exit with their tournament shares, we are still leaving a lot of NCAA money that we would have been entitled to share in behind.
Conversely, if we had stayed, the C7 would have had to share our tournament shares in order to get our share of the Pitt, Syracuse, etc. money. If the C7 had stayed, the new teams coming in to the league might have taken their share of all of the Big East's NCAA tournament shares or they may have been voted out of receiving any tournament shares acquired by the league before they entered it. Sharing that kind of money with Tulane's basketball program could have had a lot to do with the C7's discussions to leave getting serious.
Quote from: drewm88 on March 05, 2013, 11:04:06 PM
Did some rough math as to what we still have coming to us (the C7) for tournament shares. This is based on Benny's info (see link above). He estimated that a 2012 share was worth $242k. I'm making them all $250k for the sake of easier math. So this will overstate it.
2008:
MU - 32 ($500k/year, 1 year left) $500k
Georgetown - 32 $500 k
Villanova - 16 $750 k
Total - $1.75m
2009:
MU - 32 $1m ($500k/year x 2 years)
Villanova - 4 $2.5 m
Total: $3.5 m
2010:
MU - 64 $750k ($250k/year x 3 years)
Georgetown - 64 $750k
Villanova - 32 $1.5m
Total: $3m
2011:
Villanova - 64 $1m ($250k/year x 4 years)
Georgetown - 64 $1m
St. John's - 64 $1m
MU - 16 $3m
Total: $5m
2012:
Georgetown - 32 $2.5m ($500k/year x 5 years)
MU - 16 $3.75m
Total: $6.25m
Grand total: $19.5 million. Remember, that's rounded up a decent amount, but it's safe to say the tourney shares are in excess of $15 million, plus another few million at least from us and Georgetown this year.
Hope my 11:00 math & logic hold up when I look again tomorrow.
One small point. The
current Big East will get the 2008 shares while the
new Big East (featuring the C7) will get the 2009-2012 shares, and whatever shares the C7 schools can generate from this year's tournament.
Quote from: Jet915 on March 06, 2013, 08:46:14 AM
Exit fee from what I've heard is 50K and we would not be taking our credits with us...
Refuse to go to the NCAA tournament to teach the MVC a lesson.
Oh, wait a minute, Marquette already did that in 1970 when Al McGuire didn't like the region the NCAA put us in, so the NCAA passed a rule saying that you
have to go.
I believe that Marquette is the only school to have two of its uniform designs (including the one we wore during the 1977 championship season) banned by the NCAA. Once you get in a conference with us, you'll see that we're a lot of fun.
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 06, 2013, 10:26:07 AM
One small point. The current Big East will get the 2008 shares while the new Big East (featuring the C7) will get the 2009-2012 shares, and whatever shares the C7 schools can generate from this year's tournament.
I wasn't sure when the payments actually happened. If there's another round of payments before we split off, then the total we take with us goes down for each year.
2008: $0
2009: $1.75 m
2010: $2 m
2011: $4.5 m
2012: $5 m
Total: $13.25 m + this year's haul. (Again, this is a generous estimate of $250k/share.)
Quote from: Dreadman24 on March 06, 2013, 08:46:53 AM
Question is will the conference be considered mid major?
The LEAST might be headed that way at this rate.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 06, 2013, 08:55:49 AM
And you will more than make up for both after one year's television revenue.
Exactly, I have no qualms... ;D
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 06, 2013, 08:09:13 AM
So they are using the tourney share money to set up the new conference, plus have some left over, plus they keep about $1.5M each from the BE, get the FOX contract starting next year, avoided all exit fees, get the BE name and the MSG location.
Honestly, this has worked out better than I ever thought it would!
Tournament shares are paid out over 6 years, though.