Buzz and his love of stats. During the Rome interview, he said the MU has won 116 games since he got here, has a winning record in the post-season, both BE tourney and the big dance, and has a >.500 record against every team but Louisville. Astounding. Pitino and his evil apprentice, Donovan, have Buzz's number. They seem to have the key to disrupting MU's offense, which leads to confusion on defense, as well as poor transition defense, worse than against other teams. Clearly, 'ville does it with ball pressure and trapping. Is it a weakness in Buzz's system, is it weak PG play, what is it about the Pitino/Donovan pressure that is different than other teams'?
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2013, 08:48:39 AM
Buzz and his love of stats. During the Rome interview, he said the MU has won 116 games since he got here, has a winning record in the post-season, both BE tourney and the big dance, and has a >.500 record against every team but Louisville. Astounding. Pitino and his evil apprentice, Donovan, have Buzz's number. They seem to have the key to disrupting MU's offense, which leads to confusion on defense, as well as poor transition defense, worse than against other teams. Clearly, 'ville does it with ball pressure and trapping. Is it a weakness in Buzz's system, is it weak PG play, what is it about the Pitino/Donovan pressure that is different than other teams'?
That key is known as better talent.
Buzz has winning records against teams with better talent. Pitino does get good talent and teaches it well.
Is Pitino known to be a master of film or something? Maybe Buzz could (should?) have an alternate lineup and/or style of play solely for when we play Lville. That way, everything Pitino studied in film would be virtually worthless. I mean, what have you got to lose, especially if the guy's got your number.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 05, 2013, 09:20:32 AM
Is Pitino known to be a master of film or something? Maybe Buzz could (should?) have an alternate lineup and/or style of play solely for when we play Lville. That way, everything Pitino studied in film would be virtually worthless. I mean, what have you got to lose, especially if the guy's got your number.
Jake, ferguson, mayo, Steve jr, dede.
Works for me
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2013, 08:53:56 AM
Buzz has winning records against teams with better talent. Pitino does get good talent and teaches it well.
Maybe, but how do you define better talent? That's a tough one to prove out.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 09:26:45 AM
Maybe, but how do you define better talent? That's a tough one to prove out.
Recruit rankings?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 09:26:45 AM
Maybe, but how do you define better talent? That's a tough one to prove out.
Obviously the amount of players who made it to the NBA...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 09:26:45 AM
Maybe, but how do you define better talent? That's a tough one to prove out.
Actually, it's impossible to "prove out". It 's also pretty obvious.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 05, 2013, 09:30:31 AM
Recruit rankings?
I think we've all seen how ridiculous many of those are.
Victor Oladipo #144
Erik Williams #69
Example 2 of 10,000,000
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2013, 08:48:39 AM
Buzz and his love of stats. During the Rome interview, he said the MU has won 116 games since he got here, has a winning record in the post-season, both BE tourney and the big dance, and has a >.500 record against every team but Louisville. Astounding. Pitino and his evil apprentice, Donovan, have Buzz's number. They seem to have the key to disrupting MU's offense, which leads to confusion on defense, as well as poor transition defense, worse than against other teams. Clearly, 'ville does it with ball pressure and trapping. Is it a weakness in Buzz's system, is it weak PG play, what is it about the Pitino/Donovan pressure that is different than other teams'?
I'm very skeptical that MU has a winning record against Florida under Buzz. Maybe he was just talking about Big East teams.
You are correct. >.500 against every CONFERENCE opponent other than Louisville.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 05, 2013, 09:35:17 AM
Actually, it's impossible to "prove out". It 's also pretty obvious.
How is it pretty obvious? By the way, I've always found that term to be an oxymoron...if it's obvious, it's obvious and should be absolute, not halfway. ;D If one team has a better center and forward, but the other team has better guards, is there more talent on one than another? Are we ranking it head to head by every position...is it talent, or also experience and talent (lots of Freshmen with "talent" but the junior or senior with "less talent" may perform better night in and night out).
Or is it simply based on the name on the front of the jersey and that's it? Perception, reality, something in between? Are we always going to assume here that Pitt has more talent, Villanova, UConn, St. John's...do they really...in terms of ready, able players not just 18 year olds with a high school resume?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 09:43:59 AM
How is it pretty obvious? By the way, I've always found that term to be an oxymoron...if it's obvious, it's obvious and should be absolute, not halfway. ;D
You're wrong. Obvious does not mean absolute or scientifically proven.
For example, it's obvious to most people that Mother Theresa was a better human being than Joe Stalin - but maybe not to Mrs. Stalin. Or that Buzz Williams is a better coach and person than Tom Crean - but not to....well, maybe somebody :)
Just because the question of "Does UL have more talent?" interests me, here is the talent level of the various teams in order as ranked by their Pomeroy contributions. The RSCI ranking is included. UL has slightly more talent and their talent is rated higher (three top 30 players).
Recruit rankings are definitely a crapshoot, but the higher the recruit rankings, the more likely a player is to be a contributor.
Having said all that, Dr. Blackheart had a great post about how Pitino has MU scouted perfectly. I think it's their defensive adjustment more than the talent that causes fits.
Louisville
Go-To Guys
Russ Smith (Jr) no RSCI
Significant Contributors
Peyton Siva (Sr) #27
Chane Behanan (So) #24
Role Players
Gorgui Deng (Jr) #69
Luke Hancock (Jr) no RSCI
Wayne Blackshear (So) #26
Montrezl Harrell (Fr) #85
Limited Roles
Kevin Ware (So) #74
Nearly Invisible
Stephan Van Treese (Jr) no RSCI
Marquette
Major Contributors
Davante Gardner (Jr) no RSCI
Significant Contributors
Vander Blue (Jr) #48
Junior Cadougan (Sr) #47
Jamil Wilson (Jr) #40
Todd Mayo (So) no RSCI
Role Players
Trent Lockett (Sr) no RSCI
Juan Anderson (So) #81
Steve Taylor (Fr) #82
Limited Roles
Chris Otule (Sr) no RSCI
Derrick Wilson (So) no RSCI
Jake Thomas (Jr) no RSCI
Quote from: Warrior's Path on March 05, 2013, 10:23:10 AM
Just because the question of "Does UL have more talent?" interests me, here is the talent level of the various teams in order as ranked by their Pomeroy contributions. The RSCI ranking is included. UL has slightly more talent and their talent is rated higher (three top 30 players).
Recruit rankings are definitely a crapshoot, but the higher the recruit rankings, the more likely a player is to be a contributor.
Having said all that, Dr. Blackheart had a great post about how Pitino has MU scouted perfectly. I think it's their defensive adjustment more than the talent that causes fits.
Louisville
Russ Smith (Jr) no RSCI
Peyton Siva (Sr) #27
Chane Behanan (So) #24
Gorgui Deng (Jr) #69
Luke Hancock (Jr) no RSCI
Wayne Blackshear (So) #26
Montrezl Harrell (Fr) #85
Kevin Ware (So) #74
Stephan Van Treese (Jr) no RSCI
Marquette
Davante Gardner (Jr) no RSCI
Vander Blue (Jr) #48
Junior Cadougan (Sr) #47
Jamil Wilson (Jr) #40
Todd Mayo (So) no RSCI
Trent Lockett (Sr) no RSCI
Juan Anderson (So) #81
Steve Taylor (Fr) #82
Chris Otule (Sr) no RSCI
Derrick Wilson (So) no RSCI
Jake Thomas (Jr) no RSCI
I like your approach, but not using RSCI which is just a measure how players were thought of before they got on campus and people knew better. If I could remember what it was called, I'd suggest using that added points per game or whatever it is measurement that bamamarquette fan does a lot of figuring of during the off season.
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 05, 2013, 10:46:59 AM
I like your approach, but not using RSCI which is just a measure how players were thought of before they got on campus and people knew better. If I could remember what it was called, I'd suggest using that added points per game or whatever it is measurement that bamamarquette fan does a lot of figuring of during the off season.
You're referring to value-add.
And the players have been sorted to how they are contributing on the court. For example, Russ Smith is the top contributor for UL, but he was not ranked by RSCI coming into school. Peyton Siva is a major contributor, and he was ranked highly. Stephan Van Treese gets scrub minutes and was not ranked.
Quote from: MountainCreek19 on March 05, 2013, 09:30:52 AM
Obviously the amount of players who made it to the NBA...
Or the number of players with Big East proven talent before they get to MU
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2013, 09:35:21 AM
I think we've all seen how ridiculous many of those are.
Victor Oladipo #144
Erik Williams #69
Example 2 of 10,000,000
That's like all recruit rankings. Obviously it's not a science but the Top 30-50you seem to get a greater distinction. Calipari's recruits, etc.
Cream is also pretty good at getting guards to excel in their all around game. I'm not sold on oladipo. Good college player though.
Pitino is a bad matchup for MU not only because of their talent level, but because of their system. Debating whether UL or SU or UCONN has better talent is missing the point - they all have elite (better than MU) level talent (I'm referring to UCONN under Calhoun).
UL is successful against MU because Marquette often has problems with pressure defense. We play well against Syracuse because we attack their zone and can move the ball into the paint. The shortened front court possessions caused by the UL press take our offense out of rythem and prevent decrease the likelihood of a quality paint touch. Combine that with turnovers and we lose.
Thing about UL is, they are a tough matchup for almost all teams. That's why they're UL.
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2013, 09:38:20 AM
You are correct. >.500 against every CONFERENCE opponent other than Louisville.
Villanova?
You are correct, villacats. Not like Buzz to mess up a stat like that, but he did.