Basically:
- C7 get $15 million
- Incoming football schools get $1 million
- $5 million to cover splitting the Big East office
- $72 million to Uconn, Cincinnati, and USF
http://ajerseyguy.com
Big pay day coming for Big East 3
March 3, 2013 – 5:29 pm
But with a Big East cash fund of close to $100 million available for distribution each of those schools should be collecting a check of between 18 and 25 million once the settlement is reached according to sources familiar with the talks between the Big East and the Catholic 7 schools who are pushing for a withdrawal by July 1.
The $100 million total is a combination of the nearly 70 million dollars the Big East has and will collect in exit fee money from schools that have left or have announced they are leaving. Another approximately $30 million check will come to the Big East offices from the NCAA as "unit" shares for conference teams participation in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.
According to sources, the offer that the Big East football faction has presented the Catholic 7 group consisting of St. John's, DePaul, Providence, Marquette, Seton Hall, Georgetown and Villanova is a lump sum of between 10 and 15 million dollars.
Using a generous estimate of 15 million, that reduces the total to 85 million dollars
Each of the new Big East schools that will be part of the Big East football league next season–SMU, Houston, Memphis, Central Florida and Temple will receive approximately $1 million, which reduces the total by another $5 million down to 80 million.
New members committed to join the Big East in 2014 such as Tulane and East Carolina and Navy which is scheduled to join in 2015 (in football only)could also receive a payment if they honor their commitment , which should reduce the total to 77 million.
The Big East office will then take an operating cost fee of another $5 million, which will reduce the total to 72 million, which will then be divided evenly between Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida.
Not sure if anyone's seen this yet, but in his post before the UCONN/Cincy/USF money split, he says
"Forget the part about Notre Dame being part of the Catholic 7 for a year. A large segment of the Catholic 7 group really doesn't want the Irish as a one and done participant."
Quote from: ElDonBDon on March 03, 2013, 05:58:13 PM
"Forget the part about Notre Dame being part of the Catholic 7 for a year. A large segment of the Catholic 7 group really doesn't want the Irish as a one and done participant."
Love this.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 03, 2013, 05:47:39 PM
Basically:
- C7 get $15 million
- Incoming football schools get $1 million
- $5 million to cover splitting the Big East office
- $72 million to Uconn, Cincinnati, and USF
http://ajerseyguy.com
Big pay day coming for Big East 3
March 3, 2013 – 5:29 pm
But with a Big East cash fund of close to $100 million available for distribution each of those schools should be collecting a check of between 18 and 25 million once the settlement is reached according to sources familiar with the talks between the Big East and the Catholic 7 schools who are pushing for a withdrawal by July 1.
The $100 million total is a combination of the nearly 70 million dollars the Big East has and will collect in exit fee money from schools that have left or have announced they are leaving. Another approximately $30 million check will come to the Big East offices from the NCAA as "unit" shares for conference teams participation in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.
According to sources, the offer that the Big East football faction has presented the Catholic 7 group consisting of St. John's, DePaul, Providence, Marquette, Seton Hall, Georgetown and Villanova is a lump sum of between 10 and 15 million dollars.
Using a generous estimate of 15 million, that reduces the total to 85 million dollars
Each of the new Big East schools that will be part of the Big East football league next season–SMU, Houston, Memphis, Central Florida and Temple will receive approximately $1 million, which reduces the total by another $5 million down to 80 million.
New members committed to join the Big East in 2014 such as Tulane and East Carolina and Navy which is scheduled to join in 2015 (in football only)could also receive a payment if they honor their commitment , which should reduce the total to 77 million.
The Big East office will then take an operating cost fee of another $5 million, which will reduce the total to 72 million, which will then be divided evenly between Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida.
I'd be ok with this. He also says that if we'd stay the extra year, we'd get double the 10-15 million. So, even at that estimate ($20-30M), we'd get at most a little over $4M a school. As is, we get $1.5-2 per school. For a year early exit, considering the difference in the media deals for the two different leagues for next season, and throwing in the Big East name and (hopefully) the MSG--I think this is a pretty fair deal.
Not sure if this would be actually possible, but anyway UConn, Cincy and South Florida go Indpendent in football and join the C-7 in all other sports, it would bring the C7 to 12 teams (with Butler and Xavier). Just food for thought.
Wonder how their ESPN deal is structured next year as far as if the C7 leaves or not, or if it was done with the assumption that they're gone? If it's fixed regardless of in-or-out they get a little extra cash just by having the C7 leave now. Pennies compared to the ~$100M being distributed here though.
Cash flow of the above is also significant - a "lump sum" could be a big benefit for the C7...conference NCAA credits pay out over time, and who knows what the schedule for collecting exit fees looks like and if it will get reduced or held up in litigation.
I guess will know for sure if/when FOX makes their announcement on Tuesday.
Fair enough. A bit heavy handed by the BE3 but hell, look at the neighborhood they get to live in for the next many years. I would have a claw back mechanism that if any of those BE3 go to the ACC or any other conference the monies revert back to the pot for equal distribution. I am also assuming that the remaining capital assets convey - Brand, MSG, PPE associated with BE offices in Providence. This latter point, getting the current BE offices, will significantly reduce many of the administrative headaches associated with a start up. The existing PPE and staff offers a turn key solution for the transition - meaning we stay put and they migrate out. I doubt they want to stay in RI. All we need to do is fill certain key slots but many of the BE back office functions are already in place.
Quote from: dsense3034 on March 03, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
Not sure if this would be actually possible, but anyway UConn, Cincy and South Florida go Indpendent in football and join the C-7 in all other sports, it would bring the C7 to 12 teams (with Butler and Xavier). Just food for thought.
This has been discussed here a ton...basically, no football members since they cause instability. I can't think of a single reason to bring South Florida along in any case.
Ridiculous offer. If the c7 votes to dissolve they basically would get 70 million and possibly the intangibles (in a lengthy legal battle). The intangibles are not worth 55 million. They are worth 1 million tops.
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 03, 2013, 07:35:01 PM
Ridiculous offer. If the c7 votes to dissolve they basically would get 70 million and possibly the intangibles (in a lengthy legal battle). The intangibles are not worth 55 million. They are worth 1 million tops.
Likely the starting offer. It will get reduced but if we want to be rid of these guys it will cost us. I think moving on has intrinsic economic value as opposed to arguing over what will amount to a couple mil each.
Didn't we leave our Final 4 shares with CUSA to go to Big East?
$10 million split 7 ways is essentially a free year's worth of TV money on the current deal.
That's the walk away money to leave in July? Fine.
I agree Knight....everyone if forgetting the fact that the C7 can dissolve the Beast...which might still be the best thing to do.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 03, 2013, 07:43:36 PM
Didn't we leave our Final 4 shares with CUSA to go to Big East?
NCAA pays out tournament appearance money over 5 years, so yes.
Quote from: westcoastwarrior on March 03, 2013, 07:45:14 PM
I agree Knight....everyone if forgetting the fact that the C7 can dissolve the Beast...which might still be the best thing to do.
Now that they've announced their intention to leave, I don't know if they can, much like how Louisville & Notre Dame no longer have a vote.
Quote from: dsense3034 on March 03, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
Not sure if this would be actually possible, but anyway UConn, Cincy and South Florida go Indpendent in football and join the C-7 in all other sports, it would bring the C7 to 12 teams (with Butler and Xavier). Just food for thought.
Not gonna happen.
Quote from: keefe on March 03, 2013, 06:44:19 PM
Fair enough. A bit heavy handed by the BE3 but hell, look at the neighborhood they get to live in for the next many years. I would have a claw back mechanism that if any of those BE3 go to the ACC or any other conference the monies revert back to the pot for equal distribution. I am also assuming that the remaining capital assets convey - Brand, MSG, PPE associated with BE offices in Providence. This latter point, getting the current BE offices, will significantly reduce many of the administrative headaches associated with a start up. The existing PPE and staff offers a turn key solution for the transition - meaning we stay put and they migrate out. I doubt they want to stay in RI. All we need to do is fill certain key slots but many of the BE back office functions are already in place.
Agreed. Take the offer with some legal protection.
If that deal includes the BigEast name and MSG as well as keeping tournament shares (for each team individually) take the offer and run.
edit. Just read the entire article. That number includes the tournament shares. I still say take the money and run. According to the article we are leaving 15 million on the table and getting the Big East name (good deal) we are also getting to start the Fox contract earlier (~2 million more per team for the 1 year compared to the existing ESPN deal) so in the end we come out $1M short of where we would be if we waited a year, but also get the Big East name.
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 03, 2013, 07:35:01 PM
Ridiculous offer. If the c7 votes to dissolve they basically would get 70 million and possibly the intangibles (in a lengthy legal battle). The intangibles are not worth 55 million. They are worth 1 million tops.
There is some legal question as to whether or not they can do that. Furthermore the ensuing legal battle would likely deplete a bunch of this money anyway. And my understanding is that the football schools are due more of the money anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MneA9pgLVw
Something like this.
Do we really want to fight Pitt/Cuse/RU/UL/ND for exit fee money? That costs money too. There's a ton of risk holding a claim on it and hoping it's all going to come in timely, clean, and without any legal battles. The lump sum offer allows us to move on and forget about all of that. They'll probably get a little more, but IIRC the claim from a month or two ago said $41M was their share but assumed the bylaws' full two year notice, so $15M to go July 1 isn't as lowballed as it sounds.
Quote from: forgetful on March 03, 2013, 08:05:57 PM
If that deal includes the BigEast name and MSG as well as keeping tournament shares (for each team individually) take the offer and run.
edit. Just read the entire article. That number includes the tournament shares. I still say take the money and run. According to the article we are leaving 15 million on the table and getting the Big East name (good deal) we are also getting to start the Fox contract earlier (~2 million more per team for the 1 year compared to the existing ESPN deal) so in the end we come out $1M short of where we would be if we waited a year, but also get the Big East name.
I wonder how the negotiations are handling the current year's tourney credits--it'd be great if we were allowed to retain the credit's for whatever happens this year. With G'town and MU both poised to make decent runs, and 'nova maybe squeaking in, that could be a nice start for the new BE.
Quote from: dsense3034 on March 03, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
Not sure if this would be actually possible, but anyway UConn, Cincy and South Florida go Indpendent in football and join the C-7 in all other sports, it would bring the C7 to 12 teams (with Butler and Xavier). Just food for thought.
Two of those three (UCONN and Cincy) have been publicly humping the ACC's leg trying to get in for the past few years. Joining the C7 would be a terrible idea - they'll keep holding onto that dream just like Dayton fans are holding tightly to the dream of the C7 joining the A10.
Sorry, PTM, for that visual.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 03, 2013, 08:06:31 PM
There is some legal question as to whether or not they can do that. Furthermore the ensuing legal battle would likely deplete a bunch of this money anyway. And my understanding is that the football schools are due more of the money anyway.
That's a good point. I don't have the contract in front of me but there is an uneven distribution of tv dollars with the majority going to the football schools. Forfeited football dollars from defectors would accrue to the remaining football schools. Hence what appears to be a very skewed distribution could reflect the mandated football-basketball split.
Quote from: CaptainAwesome on March 03, 2013, 09:24:04 PM
Two of those three (UCONN and Cincy) have been publicly humping the ACC's leg trying to get in for the past few years. Joining the C7 would be a terrible idea - they'll keep holding onto that dream just like Dayton fans are holding tightly to the dream of the C7 joining the A10.
Sorry, PTM, for that visual.
Dayton has bigger dreams than that, see the UDPride thread 'Path to the A-10 12 seed'
Quote from: keefe on March 03, 2013, 07:39:57 PM
Likely the starting offer. It will get reduced but if we want to be rid of these guys it will cost us. I think moving on has intrinsic economic value as opposed to arguing over what will amount to a couple mil each.
Moving on's intrinsic value is something that should benefit both parties.
Quote from: keefe on March 03, 2013, 10:23:40 PM
That's a good point. I don't have the contract in front of me but there is an uneven distribution of tv dollars with the majority going to the football schools. Forfeited football dollars from defectors would accrue to the remaining football schools. Hence what appears to be a very skewed distribution could reflect the mandated football-basketball split.
Also, the remaining schools really have nothing left to lose here. Unlike the C7, they are going to be losing money with their next television contract and likely see a future with a bunch of bills to pay and not quite knowing where it is all going to come from. They have every reason to fight hard for this money.
Quote from: keefe on March 03, 2013, 10:23:40 PM
That's a good point. I don't have the contract in front of me but there is an uneven distribution of tv dollars with the majority going to the football schools. Forfeited football dollars from defectors would accrue to the remaining football schools. Hence what appears to be a very skewed distribution could reflect the mandated football-basketball split.
All the more reason to get the hell out. When it was 9 football/7 basketball it made sense, but now it's 7 bball/3 fball and the football schools still have more power and veto rights and get more money.
I obviously don't know the details of the contracts, but would dissolving the league only help the departing schools? (Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, UofL, ND) If the league dissolves, can those schools avoid paying their exit fees? Do those schools then get to keep their NCAA credits? There could be much more to gain for the C7 and the Leftover 3 by not dissolving.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 04, 2013, 09:05:17 AM
I obviously don't know the details of the contracts, but would dissolving the league only help the departing schools? (Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers, UofL, ND) If the league dissolves, can those schools avoid paying their exit fees? Do those schools then get to keep their NCAA credits? There could be much more to gain for the C7 and the Leftover 3 by not dissolving.
These are really good questions and why the "nuclear option" of attempting a dissolution is very likely going to be more protracted and expensive.
If we dissolve, WVU might even come back asking for a refund.
I thought the league could not be dissolved without at least one vote from a football school which is why this was not an option.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 04, 2013, 09:41:57 AM
I thought the league could not be dissolved without at least one vote from a football school which is why this was not an option.
Wrong. Its based on 2/3 vote. The C7 has the numbers. The only somewhat legal question is whether Temple would have a vote but based on multiple reports, their vote would only count beginning July 1.
I worry that we are so afraid of losing the Fox deal we are at risk of leaving a ton of money on the table.
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 04, 2013, 10:34:25 AM
Wrong. Its based on 2/3 vote. The C7 has the numbers. The only somewhat legal question is whether Temple would have a vote but based on multiple reports, their vote would only count beginning July 1.
I worry that we are so afraid of losing the Fox deal we are at risk of leaving a ton of money on the table.
Like the (recently old) Big East left all that money on ESPN's table, led by the Pitt President (IIRC).
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 04, 2013, 10:34:25 AM
Wrong. Its based on 2/3 vote. The C7 has the numbers. The only somewhat legal question is whether Temple would have a vote but based on multiple reports, their vote would only count beginning July 1.
You are correct. The bylaws are attached to the suit here:
http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2011/11/04/bigeast_v_wvu_110411.pdf
The issue that will be contested are that football revenues are specifically allocated to football schools, but it never specifically states how withdrawl fees are allocated. My guess is what they did is take the traditional ratio of football:basketball television revenue, but added a premium for the Big East name, the MSG contract, AND allowing the schools to leave the conference early.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 04, 2013, 10:47:06 AM
You are correct. The bylaws are attached to the suit here:
http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2011/11/04/bigeast_v_wvu_110411.pdf
The issue that will be contested are that football revenues are specifically allocated to football schools, but it never specifically states how withdrawl fees are allocated. My guess is what they did is take the traditional ratio of football:basketball television revenue, but added a premium for the Big East name, the MSG contract, AND allowing the schools to leave the conference early.
The bylaws may have been amended after the WVU lawsuit.
Quote from: MUMountin on March 04, 2013, 10:54:05 AM
The bylaws may have been amended after the WVU lawsuit.
Doubtful and if so, it would not be detrimental to the C7, as amendments require 3/4 approval.
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 03, 2013, 05:47:39 PM
Basically:
- C7 get $15 million
- Incoming football schools get $1 million
- $5 million to cover splitting the Big East office
- $72 million to Uconn, Cincinnati, and USF
http://ajerseyguy.com
Big pay day coming for Big East 3
March 3, 2013 – 5:29 pm
But with a Big East cash fund of close to $100 million available for distribution each of those schools should be collecting a check of between 18 and 25 million once the settlement is reached according to sources familiar with the talks between the Big East and the Catholic 7 schools who are pushing for a withdrawal by July 1.
The $100 million total is a combination of the nearly 70 million dollars the Big East has and will collect in exit fee money from schools that have left or have announced they are leaving. Another approximately $30 million check will come to the Big East offices from the NCAA as "unit" shares for conference teams participation in the NCAA men's basketball tournament.
According to sources, the offer that the Big East football faction has presented the Catholic 7 group consisting of St. John's, DePaul, Providence, Marquette, Seton Hall, Georgetown and Villanova is a lump sum of between 10 and 15 million dollars.
Using a generous estimate of 15 million, that reduces the total to 85 million dollars
Each of the new Big East schools that will be part of the Big East football league next season–SMU, Houston, Memphis, Central Florida and Temple will receive approximately $1 million, which reduces the total by another $5 million down to 80 million.
New members committed to join the Big East in 2014 such as Tulane and East Carolina and Navy which is scheduled to join in 2015 (in football only)could also receive a payment if they honor their commitment , which should reduce the total to 77 million.
The Big East office will then take an operating cost fee of another $5 million, which will reduce the total to 72 million, which will then be divided evenly between Cincinnati, UConn and South Florida.
FWIW, A Jersey Guy later tweeted that the C7 are asking for $35M of the $100M. So, we're probably just seeing the negotiation positions being staked out, with likely resolution somewhere in between. As others have said, too much at stake to let this get bogged down in litigation, so I imagine that the C7 will eventually come down close to the initial offer of 10-15--maybe low 20s? Just guessing here.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on March 04, 2013, 10:47:06 AM
You are correct. The bylaws are attached to the suit here:
http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2011/11/04/bigeast_v_wvu_110411.pdf
The issue that will be contested are that football revenues are specifically allocated to football schools, but it never specifically states how withdrawl fees are allocated. My guess is what they did is take the traditional ratio of football:basketball television revenue, but added a premium for the Big East name, the MSG contract, AND allowing the schools to leave the conference early.
The other thing to note is that the C7 could dissolve and then control how assets are distributed with only a simple majority (i.e. they could potentially vote to distribute the entire 100 mil to themselves). In light of these provisions a 15 million (out of 100 mil) offer is not reasonable.
Quote from: PTM on March 03, 2013, 11:04:17 PM
Dayton has bigger dreams than that, see the UDPride thread 'Path to the A-10 12 seed'
Link (this really needs to be seen):
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22708 (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22708)
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 04, 2013, 12:03:14 PM
The other thing to note is that the C7 could dissolve and then control how assets are distributed with only a simple majority (i.e. they could potentially vote to distribute the entire 100 mil to themselves). In light of these provisions a 15 million (out of 100 mil) offer is not reasonable.
I'm unable to find the link now, but there was quite a bit of discussion when the C7 started breaking away that there was a clause in the bylaws that required one football school to vote for dissolution for it to be a valid vote. Maybe someone else can locate that thread.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 04, 2013, 12:19:24 PM
Link (this really needs to be seen):
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22708 (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22708)
Kinda makes you feel sorry for them...