MUScoop

I have been critical of him in the past.   If it turns out that he was a driving force behind the conference re-alignment, the TV deal, etc.,  then I have to take back half of the mean stuff I have said about him.   Kudos and well done.     Now, make sure you keep Buzz. 

Quote from: tower912 on March 01, 2013, 08:30:45 AM
I have been critical of him in the past.   If it turns out that he was a driving force behind the conference re-alignment, the TV deal, etc.,  then I have to take back half of the mean stuff I have said about him.   Kudos and well done.     Now, make sure you keep Buzz. 

If buzz leaves because of him than the conference stuff does not matter

Quote from: tower912 on March 01, 2013, 08:30:45 AM
I have been critical of him in the past.   If it turns out that he was a driving force behind the conference re-alignment, the TV deal, etc.,  then I have to take back half of the mean stuff I have said about him.   Kudos and well done.     Now, make sure you keep Buzz. 

Agreed with all of this.  He has earned some leash with this Big East maneuvering.  The piddly stuff like the hey song is annoying but ultimately irrelevant.  Keeping Buzz and the Big East were the two critical items for the AD right now.  He gets an A in one, the other is incomplete.

If Buzz is our coach come fall and there were little or no Buzz is unhappy stories in the off season then Larry will have swung me completely.

LW has been getting it done it appears. Am not an anti LW guy and do not think I would blame him if Buzz would leave while LW was here. It looks like LW knows how to do his job.

Quote from: mu03eng on March 01, 2013, 08:47:45 AM
Keeping Buzz and the Big East were the two critical items for the AD right now.  He gets an A in one, the other is incomplete.

If Buzz is our coach come fall and there were little or no Buzz is unhappy stories in the off season then Larry will have swung me completely.

Doesn't quite seem fair to me. We heard completely unfounded rumors about Buzz's u happiness, and yet he's still here. In the meantime, LW has been key to negotiating a new league and giving Marquette stability.

But, should more unfounded rumors about Buzz being unhappy crop up, Larry fails in your book?

I guess I'd prefer to judge people by what we *know* they've done, not whispers on the wind.

Quote from: Utile et Dulce on March 01, 2013, 09:07:26 AM
Doesn't quite seem fair to me. We heard completely unfounded rumors about Buzz's u happiness, and yet he's still here. In the meantime, LW has been key to negotiating a new league and giving Marquette stability.

But, should more unfounded rumors about Buzz being unhappy crop up, Larry fails in your book?

I guess I'd prefer to judge people by what we *know* they've done, not whispers on the wind.

Oh the rumors were definitely founded on something otherwise they don't exist.  And I didn't say he would be a failure based on that.  Keeping the grade analogy, if Buzz stays and no rumors, A, it media scare stuff but Buzz stays A-.  If Buzz leaves C, and if Buzz leaves because of pressure from Larry/Administration D.  It's all about the context and not black and white.

Besides whoever promised you fair?  Want fair don't be an AD of a school with a semi-irrational fanbase.

1) He got some delusional reaction from some fans because he is a ND guy
2) He came from a smaller school
3) He dared to be an AD and actually be a boss...good for him
4) He has had to carry out some actions at the behest of the President, BOT, etc on some things like the Hey song, etc...he's just the messenger.

I love the guy.  Hope he is around a long time.  He has shown leadership for the conference, he has shown a willingness to be a strong leader for the school and the department. 

If Buzz thinks Larry Williams is tough, he's going to love going to Texas and work for Deloss Dodds.    The grass isn't always greener.  Buzz has a huge contract, a school willing to play ball, he just had to reign in his players from the bad press they were creating. 

Since the "dust up", I've noticed no front page stories about MU off the court and 2nd place in the Big East with a chance to win the title.  A top 10 recruiting class coming in.  Looks to me like Larry Williams and the administration got their point across and Buzz's teams haven't suffered in any way, which should make Buzz happy.

I've heard that Buzz really doesn't like Larry but that he isn't planning on leaving because his wife and kids are happy that they have finally settled down rather than moving every other year. Also Buzz loves the fact the MU pays their assistants a lot more than other places so because of his loyalty to his fellow coaches he won't leave.

Again this is what I have heard so there is no reason to take it as the God honest truth. This one post will now start a 5 page thread

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 01, 2013, 09:32:12 AM
1) He got some delusional reaction from some fans because he is a ND guy
2) He came from a smaller school
3) He dared to be an AD and actually be a boss...good for him
4) He has had to carry out some actions at the behest of the President, BOT, etc on some things like the Hey song, etc...he's just the messenger.

I love the guy.  Hope he is around a long time.  He has shown leadership for the conference, he has shown a willingness to be a strong leader for the school and the department. 

If Buzz thinks Larry Williams is tough, he's going to love going to Texas and work for Deloss Dodds.    The grass isn't always greener.  Buzz has a huge contract, a school willing to play ball, he just had to reign in his players from the bad press they were creating. 

Since the "dust up", I've noticed no front page stories about MU off the court and 2nd place in the Big East with a chance to win the title.  A top 10 recruiting class coming in.  Looks to me like Larry Williams and the administration got their point across and Buzz's teams haven't suffered in any way, which should make Buzz happy.

Well stated.

Quote from: cbowe3 on March 01, 2013, 09:33:35 AM
I've heard that Buzz really doesn't like Larry but that he isn't planning on leaving because his wife and kids are happy that they have finally settled down rather than moving every other year. Also Buzz loves the fact the MU pays their assistants a lot more than other places so because of his loyalty to his fellow coaches he won't leave.

Again this is what I have heard so there is no reason to take it as the God honest truth. This one post will now start a 5 page thread

Could be 100% true.  Many people don't like their bosses, but they find a way to be professional and get through it.  Buzz has a great gig, Larry and Father Pilarz's demands have not slowed down Buzz's ability to win, despite what people want to believe.  Over time, IF the relationship is difficult, you may find that they grow closer especially if winning continues and Buzz realizes that there are many ways to skin the cat to win games but also keep the university's image in tact.

Chico's

Agree completely.Hoping that Buzz does realize there are many ways to skin a cat.

Quote from: mu03eng on March 01, 2013, 09:20:10 AM
Oh the rumors were definitely founded on something otherwise they don't exist.  And I didn't say he would be a failure based on that.  Keeping the grade analogy, if Buzz stays and no rumors, A, it media scare stuff but Buzz stays A-.  If Buzz leaves C, and if Buzz leaves because of pressure from Larry/Administration D.  It's all about the context and not black and white.

Besides whoever promised you fair?  Want fair don't be an AD of a school with a semi-irrational fanbase.

So, say, the Texas job or the UCLA job or some other big-time job opens up and Buzz gets offered a huge deal to take it ... that somehow reflects poorly on Larry Williams?
Weird. Don't remember too many people blaming Cottingham when Crean left for Indiana (cue the Crean bashing ...).

And while LW seems to be doing a nice job with the conference realignment and all, I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for the hat.

Add in that Buzz is in a position to have a GREAT team next year, and it would have to be hard for him to leave now.

I really have no opinion on the man. My only criticism would be commenting on Buzz to the press. That was way over the line and busted the Praise in Public Punish in Private Maxim. As far as taking the lead in the conference stand-up I would chalk that up to doing his job. Sounds like he's taking the initiative but we really don't know any details so it's all mental masturbation.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 01, 2013, 09:37:06 AM
Many people don't like their bosses, but they find a way to be professional and get through it.

My wife works in an office of professionals where if you miss a social gathering after work, you're immediately suspected of not liking everyone else, but if you show up to the next gathering, suddenly you're everyone's best friend again.  Evidently, part of the bar exam is learning how to act like you're in junior high again.

Just because Buzz and Larry aren't hanging out at the Domes on the weekend doesn't mean they hate each other and/or can't work productively in the same building with each other.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 01, 2013, 09:37:06 AM
Could be 100% true.  Many people don't like their bosses, but they find a way to be professional and get through it.  Buzz has a great gig, Larry and Father Pilarz's demands have not slowed down Buzz's ability to win, despite what people want to believe.  Over time, IF the relationship is difficult, you may find that they grow closer especially if winning continues and Buzz realizes that there are many ways to skin the cat to win games but also keep the university's image in tact.

I dont post much, and i loathe, generally, the +1 (00000) posts, but:

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

He's an evil Domer with small-time experience and a stained cap who hates Buzz and wants us to greatly reduce budget and to be like SLU. 






Wait, he helped us leave CUSA 2.0 and move to a conference that best fits us and gives us much more money?  And Buzz was allowed to just coach and not have to be involved?  And all signs are we're still near the top of the list for program investment?  And wait, SLU is good?

Quote from: Pakuni on March 01, 2013, 09:57:34 AM
So, say, the Texas job or the UCLA job or some other big-time job opens up and Buzz gets offered a huge deal to take it ... that somehow reflects poorly on Larry Williams?
Weird. Don't remember too many people blaming Cottingham when Crean left for Indiana (cue the Crean bashing ...).

And while LW seems to be doing a nice job with the conference realignment and all, I'm not sure I can ever forgive him for the hat.

Texas is not Indiana, nor is it UCLA.  There are places that Buzz could go where LW wouldn't be necessarily be responsible. 

Having said that, the expectations for LW have to be higher than they were for Cottingham because the program has improved since Crean left for IIII, from MU's investments to performance on the court.  So my expectation is that Marquette is a destination equal to all but perhaps the top 5-10 programs in college basketball, and coaching decisions should reflect that.  Additionally, Buzz is an extremely important asset to the continued success of the basketball program and the AD's decisions/actions should reflect that fact.

How I grade LW is based on his actions regarding the handling of MU athletic assets and resources, and Buzz is one of them.  I'm not pre-judging LW in any way, simply saying I had issues with how he handled a situation previously(Buzz/SMU), his next be opportunity has so far been a resounding success(conference realignment), and he might have another opportunity to impress me this summer(if there are any Buzz issues in the off season).  We'll see what happens.

The question is whose stained cap does he wear this weekend?  If he is not wearing MU clothing then we can talk bad about him.

Hope they have the Kiss Cam on Larry tomorrow. Gotta check out if he's secretly blowin' wet ones Brey's way each time the Irish score.
Still may send him a new MU golf hat for his birthday.

My only complaint is he does have to improve his grammar in his official missives.  He does represent a top 100 University.  Actually two, if you take his alma mater into account.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 01, 2013, 11:05:57 AM
Hope they have the Kiss Cam on Larry tomorrow. Gotta check out if he's secretly blowin' wet ones Brey's way each time the Irish score.
Still may send him a new MU golf hat for his birthday.

Brey is a known philanderer

When is he gonna address the witch hunts going on in the student section?  It's a little ridiculous that the BC ushers are carding everyone who are given a beer.

Quote from: DavantesInferno on March 02, 2013, 03:34:23 AM
When is he gonna address the witch hunts going on in the student section?  It's a little ridiculous that the BC ushers are carding everyone who are given a beer.

Is it tho? It's in the stadiums best interest from keeping the underage drinking to a minimum. Can't fault them for wanting to cover their own ass if its found out they were doing nothing to prevent underagers from getting beers.

Quote from: mu03eng on March 01, 2013, 10:56:12 AM
Texas is not Indiana, nor is it UCLA.  There are places that Buzz could go where LW wouldn't be necessarily be responsible. 

Having said that, the expectations for LW have to be higher than they were for Cottingham because the program has improved since Crean left for IIII, from MU's investments to performance on the court.  So my expectation is that Marquette is a destination equal to all but perhaps the top 5-10 programs in college basketball, and coaching decisions should reflect that.  Additionally, Buzz is an extremely important asset to the continued success of the basketball program and the AD's decisions/actions should reflect that fact.

How I grade LW is based on his actions regarding the handling of MU athletic assets and resources, and Buzz is one of them.  I'm not pre-judging LW in any way, simply saying I had issues with how he handled a situation previously(Buzz/SMU), his next be opportunity has so far been a resounding success(conference realignment), and he might have another opportunity to impress me this summer(if there are any Buzz issues in the off season).  We'll see what happens.

Mu did a coaching search a few years ago. They didn't exactly have anybody knocking their door down.

Now you think it's a top 10 gig?

Your problem isn't with Larry. It's that your expectations are unrealistic.

Quote from: DavantesInferno on March 02, 2013, 03:34:23 AM
When is he gonna address the witch hunts going on in the student section?  It's a little ridiculous that the BC ushers are carding everyone who are given a beer.

BC ushers don't work for the Marquette athletic department, and the BC has multiple fiduciary interests in preventing underage students from getting served.

Are you suggesting MU should actively ignore state law? Cause that went over pretty well when public safety did it.

Quote from: mu03eng on March 01, 2013, 09:20:10 AM
Oh the rumors were definitely founded on something otherwise they don't exist

Have you guys heard that mu03eng is nailing his cousin? Wouldn't have expected it but that rumor must be founded on something otherwise is wouldn't exist.

Quote from: Benny B on March 01, 2013, 10:11:34 AM
Evidently, part of the bar exam is learning how to act like you're in junior high again.

Close. Law school is junior high revisited.

My "inside source" (don't we all have to have at least one...) told me that right now everything is copacetic in the world of Buzz, LW,and the administration.  I hate to be the bearer of good news, but we might not have anything to bitch about right now.  Top 20 team, good conference alternative, great incoming recruiting class, happy Buzz...

Quote from: DavantesInferno on March 02, 2013, 03:34:23 AM
When is he gonna address the witch hunts going on in the student section?  It's a little ridiculous that the BC ushers are carding everyone who are given a beer.

Wait, you really think the Marquette AD should encourage the Bradley Center to look the other way on underage drinking in their arena?

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 05, 2013, 02:56:23 PM
Wait, you really think the Marquette AD should encourage the Bradley Center to look the other way on underage drinking in their arena?

If you're underage student, yeah!

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2013, 02:58:36 PM
If you're underage student, yeah!

How many students can afford $7 beers at the BC, anyway?  That's what pregaming is about.  That and making sure you print out two copies of your ticket (one to rip up for the confetti at the first bucket, and one to turn in at Caffrey's for $2 post-game pitchers).

Quote from: warriorchick on March 05, 2013, 03:05:03 PM
How many students can afford $7 beers at the BC, anyway?  That's what pregaming is about.  That and making sure you print out two copies of your ticket (one to rip up for the confetti at the first bucket, and one to turn in at Caffrey's for $2 post-game pitchers).

All the students will access to Mom and Dad's bank account...so about 95% of 'em  ;)

Quote from: PJDunn on March 05, 2013, 02:51:42 PM
My "inside source" (don't we all have to have at least one...) told me that right now everything is copacetic in the world of Buzz, LW,and the administration.  I hate to be the bearer of good news, but we might not have anything to bitch about right now.  Top 20 team, good conference alternative, great incoming recruiting class, happy Buzz...

I like these kinds of reports...but what's the nature of your source's knowledge?  Is it someone who works in the program, at MU, etc?

My freshman son said they were tossing fair amount of kids the last two. Judging by my conversation with him at halftime he took advantage of pregame festivities.

Quote from: Goose on March 05, 2013, 03:08:51 PM
Judging by my conversation with him at halftime he took advantage of pregame festivities.

Chip/Block.   The legacy continues.  Had lunch with the Commish today, and your name came up. 

Whatever happened to sneaking a couple of cans into the game and guzzling them in a bathroom stall during timeouts/halftime?

Quote from: Pakuni on March 05, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
Whatever happened to sneaking a couple of cans into the game and guzzling them in a bathroom stall during timeouts/halftime?

I think they pat the students down now before entering. Risky play.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 05, 2013, 03:13:18 PM
Whatever happened to sneaking a couple of cans into the game and guzzling them in a bathroom stall during timeouts/halftime?

A couple?  With a large winter jacket, one could
basically snitch in a 12er, or, so I've been told.

Quote from: RJax55 on March 05, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
I think they pat the students down now before entering. Risky play.

Damn you, post Sept. 11 security state.

Sir Lawrence

Hope the Commish is doing well. Unfortunately Little Goose has some similarities to the original.

Quote from: Goose on March 05, 2013, 03:22:33 PM
Sir Lawrence

Hope the Commish is doing well. Unfortunately Little Goose has some similarities to the original.

The original has done well.  No reason for the lad not to do the same, or better.  The Commissioner is fine, thanks for asking.  He holds you in high regard. 

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 01, 2013, 11:05:57 AM
Hope they have the Kiss Cam on Larry tomorrow. Gotta check out if he's secretly blowin' wet ones Brey's way each time the Irish score.
Still may send him a new MU golf hat for his birthday.

Nope.  Like all good administrators he knows where his paycheck comes from.  He was even wearing his 'MUst Beat Notre Dame' button during the Senior Celebration.

Tom Crean left and the AD let him run the school. Why is Buzz's future so dependent on what message boards think the relationship is between coach and AD?

Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 05, 2013, 03:52:31 PM
Tom Crean left and the AD let him run the school. Why is Buzz's future so dependent on what message boards think the relationship is between coach and AD?

You apparently read none of the old threads before you signed up for this forum.

Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 05, 2013, 03:52:31 PM
Tom Crean left and the AD let him run the school. Why is Buzz's future so dependent on what message boards think the relationship is between coach and AD?

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31777.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=31777.0)

Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 05, 2013, 03:52:31 PM
Tom Crean left and the AD let him run the school. Why is Buzz's future so dependent on what message boards think the relationship is between coach and AD?

There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash.  Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy...and if Crean could leave under a super friendly AD/administration - just concerns some of us that the current regime may not be as forgiving/supportive.

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash.  Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy...and if Crean could leave under a super friendly AD/administration - just concerns some of us that the current regime may not be as forgiving/supportive.

Context is key here. Crean left for one of the great jobs in college hoops.  If Buzz is offered UCLA, Kansas, Duke, UNC....he's a fool not to go as well, regardless of how happy he is.

And no, Buzz doesn't need to be allowed to run the school, however tongue in cheek your comment is.  Here we are in 2nd place in the Big East, doing just fine taking 4 year kids for the most part, no one has ended up on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune, MJS, Milwaukee news, etc for something other than hoops.  Shorter leash or not, it's been a win win for Buzz and the school. 

so the carding thing in the BC is a little over the top, I have season tickets in 407, get my beer at the same place every game (that I have a beer), they only sell beer there, they card me every time which is fine, but I have a CA ID and they literally pull out a book and look it up, holds up the entire line.  I took a few friends of mine to a game, 3 CA ID's (!!!), I thought they were going to call the cops.  I'm 28, I expect to get carded but come on

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash.  Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy...and if Crean could leave under a super friendly AD/administration - just concerns some of us that the current regime may not be as forgiving/supportive.

You think the basketball coach should run the school and get a long leash?!?!?

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash.  Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy...and if Crean could leave under a super friendly AD/administration - just concerns some of us that the current regime may not be as forgiving/supportive.

How many Division I athletic departments have you
succesfully been in charge of, again?  You SEEM like
such an expert on how one should perform their duties
as an AD. 

I'm shocked you're currently NOT an AD of a DI athletic
department, or, alternatively,  if you are, and have time
in your busy schedule to offer your INFINITE expertise here,
KUDOS!!  Great time management!

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 05:36:35 PM
There would be less paranoia if the current AD let Buzz run the school and gave him a long leash.  Instead the new AD has tried to shackle/reign Buzz in, in some areas...which is messing with happy...and if Crean could leave under a super friendly AD/administration - just concerns some of us that the current regime may not be as forgiving/supportive.

Is there any scenario where Buzz Williams leaving MU won't be because of Larry Williams?

I mean, MU ain't Duke. If Buzz gets offered a better gig, he should take it, and that has nothing to do with Larry, right?

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 05, 2013, 08:58:42 PM
Is there any scenario where Buzz Williams leaving MU won't be because of Larry Williams?

I mean, MU ain't Duke. If Buzz gets offered a better gig, he should take it, and that has nothing to do with Larry, right?

For a certain core of irrational, torch waving, LW-hating
doom monkeys on this board, this question is completely
rhetorical.

Quote from: lab_warrior on March 05, 2013, 03:18:26 PM
A couple?  With a large winter jacket, one could
basically snitch in a 12er, or, so I've been told.

windyplayer perfected the art.

Quote from: PJDunn on March 05, 2013, 02:51:42 PM
My "inside source" (don't we all have to have at least one...) told me that right now everything is copacetic in the world of Buzz, LW,and the administration.  I hate to be the bearer of good news, but we might not have anything to bitch about right now.  Top 20 team, good conference alternative, great incoming recruiting class, happy Buzz...

I hope with every fiber of my being that your are correct.  If only Cadougan & Lockett + a minor reserve leave this offseason, plus the potential to add super high profile local kids in the 2014 & 2015 classes we're on the verge of something great with Buzz at the helm.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 05, 2013, 06:19:29 PM
You think the basketball coach should run the school and get a long leash?!?!?

I think you should go back and read the post I quoted for some context, as should this jag..

Quote from: lab_warrior on March 05, 2013, 08:53:00 PM
How many Division I athletic departments have you
succesfully been in charge of, again?  You SEEM like
such an expert on how one should perform their duties
as an AD. 

I'm shocked you're currently NOT an AD of a DI athletic
department, or, alternatively,  if you are, and have time
in your busy schedule to offer your INFINITE expertise here,
KUDOS!!  Great time management!

Not surprised a Jag like you would love a jag like Larry Williams.  And for your ego, you are right - I'm not an AD of a D1 athletic department - but I do know an AD with a lick of common sense doesn't throw the biggest asset in his department under the bus to the local media with disparaging comments, just 90 days on the job, when prior to that your biggest accomplishment was running the Athletic Department at the high major University of Portland.

Buzz will leave MU when he feels like it, right now he is making his own legacy at MU and the basketball landscape.  He was on Jim Rome today, he gets press, he gets a huge and I mean
huge paycheck.  If Larry Williams is an idiot, which I doubt he is, he has a coach that 90% percent of the other schools in the country would like to have.  He is a tireless worker, loves
his kids, but if those kids this year made some of the same mistakes in the past then maybe Buzz would have seen the door.  The young kids have matured, that made mistakes in the past.
Buzz did what he had to do to keep the program at a top level.  Leave now, I do not see it.  Has a Top 10 recruiting class coming in, quality players returning and potential top recruits right
here in Milwaukee.  I will never forget that the top player in Wisconsin in 1968 went to Northwestern, saw Al and Hank at his house, made a big mistake not going to MU.  Why?  Because
he could have keep his name in the Milwaukee community and probably would have gotten a better job out of college.  Was not good enough in college to play Pro Ball.  Was 6'6" center in
high school, now he would have played forward.  Was better than Gary Brell.

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 11:18:42 PM
I think you should go back and read the post I quoted for some context, as should this jag..

Not surprised a Jag like you would love a jag like Larry Williams.  And for your ego, you are right - I'm not an AD of a D1 athletic department - but I do know an AD with a lick of common sense doesn't throw the biggest asset in his department under the bus to the local media with disparaging comments, just 90 days on the job, when prior to that your biggest accomplishment was running the Athletic Department at the high major University of Portland.

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1tl7bY56m1rp7e21o1_400.gif)

Buzz is very driven professionally.

He is loyal, but he isn't afraid to move on if a better opportunity opens up. Look as his resume. I assume he wasn't run off by an evil AD at each job. He (probably) left for a better opportunity, and that includes UNO, where Buzz correctly saw the writing on the wall.

MU is the pinnacle of his career (to this point). He's been great for MU, and I believe he is very loyal to the school and his players.

BUT, that doesn't mean Buzz is suddenly going to stop considering all his options. He's been coaching for a long time. He knows there are no certainties, so if he gets an attractive offer, you can bet he's going to consider it. He's a mercenary, just like every other college coach. If he finds something better for him and his family, he has to consider it. Good for him! He's earned it.

(please note: none of the above is "insider information", and it has nothing to do with LW. It's basic common sense if you just look at Buzz's resume and/or watch the yearly coaching carrousel).

Now, if Buzz leaves MU for South Florida, then start the witch hunt. But, until then, let's just apply a little common sense.

Guns

I agree completely. The coaching profession is one that you have to look at opportunities when they arise. Buzz mentioned that Junior was the first player he ever recruited that he saw graduate and finish career as a coach. He added he has been at this for 16 years. If Buzz goes to better opportunity down the road I would not blame him one bit. If he went to South Florida or sideways move it would be puzzling. Honestly, I really think that coaches get burned out at the same school much quicker today than years ago. Aside from the elite jobs I think guys moving every 5-7 years is more the rule than exception today.

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 11:18:42 PM

Not surprised a Jag like you would love a jag like Larry Williams.  And for your ego, you are right - I'm not an AD of a D1 athletic department

KEWL THANKS

Also, it's not really for my "ego" (another Ners straw man!), it's useful
knowledge so that hopefully other folks on the board will appreciate your
AD expertise as much as I do.

Quote from: Ners on March 05, 2013, 11:18:42 PM

- but I do know an AD with a lick of common sense doesn't throw the biggest asset in his department under the bus to the local media with disparaging comments, just 90 days on the job, when prior to that your biggest accomplishment was running the Athletic Department at the high major University of Portland.

You're right, no one in the history of everything ever has started
at a smaller job, then moved onward and upward, to a bigger one.

Quote from: Ners on December 13, 2012, 11:44:33 AM
Okay...I surrender...I've been owned quite badly on the How can you possibly support Larry Williams thread I started.

This new thread, and the previous one I'm sure has come as an early Christmas gift to my numerous haters who lined up quite nicely in the above thread.

I'm sorry for starting the thread and irrevocably offending those of you who back Larry.

I will no longer comment on any matters involving Larry Williams (unless of course Buzz leaves during Larry's tenure.)

Ners history on this board is pretty much one hysterical overreaction followed by another.

Surprise, surprise - the Jag squad all shows up:  Sultan, Guns, Lab, Reinko.

Reinko - Love the cartoon gif..advanced beyond childhood yet?
Lab - Care to comment on the point I made or just avoid the topic?
Sultan - your history on this board is pretty much one arrogant, pompous poor point followed by another. 
Guns - The king of writing a bunch without ever really making a point/opinion

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 06, 2013, 07:12:05 AM

Now, if Buzz leaves MU for South Florida, then start the witch hunt. But, until then, let's just apply a little common sense.

Ahh....it was worse....Buzz damn near left MU for SMU.  When the year prior under Wild/Cottingham he turned down OU and Arkansas.  His wife, Corey, should be sent a big thank you note from all those who enjoy having Buzz at MU.

Some of you feel MU as a "program" is so awesome, we'll be fine moving forward.  Can MU be an occasional NCAA tourney team under a different coach...sure..occasionally...probably....but a consistent Sweet 16/Elite 8 worthy program....doubt it....it can under Buzz perennially. 

Quote from: Ners on March 06, 2013, 10:05:03 AM
Surprise, surprise - the Jag squad all shows up:  Sultan, Guns, Lab, Reinko.

Reinko - Love the cartoon gif..advanced beyond childhood yet?
Lab - Care to comment on the point I made or just avoid the topic?
Sultan - your history on this board is pretty much one arrogant, pompous poor point followed by another. 
Guns - The king of writing a bunch without ever really making a point/opinion

Ahh....it was worse....Buzz damn near left MU for SMU.  When the year prior under Wild/Cottingham he turned down OU and Arkansas.  His wife, Corey, should be sent a big thank you note from all those who enjoy having Buzz at MU.

Some of you feel MU as a "program" is so awesome, we'll be fine moving forward.  Can MU be an occasional NCAA tourney team under a different coach...sure..occasionally...probably....but a consistent Sweet 16/Elite 8 worthy program....doubt it....it can under Buzz perennially. 

Woah. 

I've never called you a name or resorted to a personal attack. I disagree with you on a ton of stuff, but can we keep this civil?

The SMU rumors (assuming they are true) are disappointing, no doubt. But, Buzz didn't actually leave, so it's hard for me to summon that much outrage.

IF Buzz leaves for North Dakota State, I'll bring the torches and we can attack Larry's house.

But, if Buzz leaves for the L.A. Lakers, I have a tough time pinning that on Larry.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you are prepared to blame Larry regardless of where Buzz goes. I just can't follow that logic. Buzz has climbed the ladder and had a lot of promotions. I assume there wasn't an evil AD at each of the schools he left. 

Holy cow. Didn't know we had so many military attorneys here.

Oh, wait, that's JAG Corps, not squad.

Quote from: Ners on March 06, 2013, 10:05:03 AM
Surprise, surprise - the Jag squad all shows up:  Sultan, Guns, Lab, Reinko.

Reinko - Love the cartoon gif..advanced beyond childhood yet?

I irony here is just fantastic.  And no, have not advanced beyond childhood yet.

I wonder when the jag squad comes together, we become some kind of super jag, like captain planet.

Quote from: Ners on March 06, 2013, 10:05:03 AM
Surprise, surprise - the Jag squad all shows up:  Sultan, Guns, Lab, Reinko.

Reinko - Love the cartoon gif..advanced beyond childhood yet?
Lab - Care to comment on the point I made or just avoid the topic?
Sultan - your history on this board is pretty much one arrogant, pompous poor point followed by another. 
Guns - The king of writing a bunch without ever really making a point/opinion

Ahh....it was worse....Buzz damn near left MU for SMU.  When the year prior under Wild/Cottingham he turned down OU and Arkansas.  His wife, Corey, should be sent a big thank you note from all those who enjoy having Buzz at MU.

Some of you feel MU as a "program" is so awesome, we'll be fine moving forward.  Can MU be an occasional NCAA tourney team under a different coach...sure..occasionally...probably....but a consistent Sweet 16/Elite 8 worthy program....doubt it....it can under Buzz perennially. 

I did comment on your point, but to clarify--my comment
is that your point is meaningless.  You haven't been,
and currently are not, an AD at a D1 university, so you don't
have any idea what you are talking about. 

And Jag squad...oof...SICK BURN.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 06, 2013, 07:12:05 AM
Buzz is very driven professionally.

He is loyal, but He's a mercenary, just like every other college coach.

A "loyal mercenary" is a contradiction. One "motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain" (a mercenary) considers concepts like loyalty a weakness. It's not in their DNA.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 11:27:12 AM
A "loyal mercenary" is a contradiction. One "motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain" (a mercenary) considers concepts like loyalty a weakness. It's not in their DNA.

That's fair.

Let's just say "independent contractor".

Buzz works for Buzz inc., (just like every other coach) and there is nothing wrong with that.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 06, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
That's fair.

Let's just say "independent contractor".

Buzz works for Buzz inc., (just like every other coach) and there is nothing wrong with that.

Or, to put it another way, every coach is ready and willing to consider a better gig, a bigger paycheck, etc. Coach K has flirted with the NBA, as has Tom Izzo. Bill Self thought about bolting Kansas. Roy Williams did bolt Kansas.
Buzz Williams is no different, and if he's offered a better job and/or a bigger paycheck, he'll probably take it. And it won't be anyone's "fault."

Buzz didn't turn down OU or Arkansas out of a sense of loyalty. He turned them down because they're not better (or better paying) jobs than the one he has at Marquette.

Quote from: Pakuni on March 06, 2013, 11:58:51 AM
Or, to put it another way, every coach is ready and willing to consider a better gig, a bigger paycheck, etc. Coach K has flirted with the NBA, as has Tom Izzo. Bill Self thought about bolting Kansas. Roy Williams did bolt Kansas.
Buzz Williams is no different, and if he's offered a better job and/or a bigger paycheck, he'll probably take it. And it won't be anyone's "fault."

Buzz didn't turn down OU or Arkansas out of a sense of loyalty. He turned them down because they're not better (or better paying) jobs than the one he has at Marquette.

Isn't this the case for just about everyone in the working world?

Why does that one guy keep saying 'jag' over and over again?

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 06, 2013, 12:04:28 PM
Isn't this the case for just about everyone in the working world?

Just about.
Point is, if (when) Buzz eventually leaves, some around here are going to blame LW - or maybe the next AD -  no matter what. And that will be stupid.

Quote from: Ners on March 06, 2013, 10:05:03 AM
Surprise, surprise - the Jag squad all shows up:  Sultan, Guns, Lab, Reinko.

Reinko - Love the cartoon gif..advanced beyond childhood yet?
Lab - Care to comment on the point I made or just avoid the topic?
Sultan - your history on this board is pretty much one arrogant, pompous poor point followed by another. 
Guns - The king of writing a bunch without ever really making a point/opinion

Ahh....it was worse....Buzz damn near left MU for SMU.  When the year prior under Wild/Cottingham he turned down OU and Arkansas.  His wife, Corey, should be sent a big thank you note from all those who enjoy having Buzz at MU.

Some of you feel MU as a "program" is so awesome, we'll be fine moving forward.  Can MU be an occasional NCAA tourney team under a different coach...sure..occasionally...probably....but a consistent Sweet 16/Elite 8 worthy program....doubt it....it can under Buzz perennially. 

"Everybody's wrong except me!"

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on March 06, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
That's fair.

Let's just say "independent contractor".

Buzz works for Buzz inc., (just like every other coach) and there is nothing wrong with that.

Sure, every coach is to some degree an independent contractor, but the idea that their characters, motivations, etc are all the same is inaccurate. Do you really think that Mark Few is just like John Calipari? I don't.

Maybe I am missing something....

But other than one LW interview in which he made some rather generalized statements, a few unsubstantiated rumors, and a crapload of conjecture by rabid Domer haters, what evidence exists that LW and Buzz are at odds with each other in any meaningful way?

Please, enlighten me.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 06, 2013, 12:04:28 PM
Isn't this the case for just about everyone in the working world?

Yes, but we all (as fans) have an emotional attachment to the team/school, so we mistakenly project that onto our favorite player or coach.

The harsh truth is that most coaches don't have the deep seeded passion for the program that the fans do.

MU will always be my favorite team. A coach's favorite team is the team he is currently coaching.

The irony is, we (as fans) will be butthurt if a coach leaves us, but then we will immediately start speculating on where we are going to steal "our" next coach from because obviously MU is better than (insert job).

Quote from: MU82 on March 06, 2013, 12:15:38 PM
"Everybody's wrong except me!"

I for one am thankful for this thread. It reminded me that I had accidently taken Ners off 'Ignore.'

Problem solved.

Quote from: Goose on March 06, 2013, 07:17:44 AM
Guns

I agree completely. The coaching profession is one that you have to look at opportunities when they arise. Buzz mentioned that Junior was the first player he ever recruited that he saw graduate and finish career as a coach. He added he has been at this for 16 years. If Buzz goes to better opportunity down the road I would not blame him one bit. If he went to South Florida or sideways move it would be puzzling. Honestly, I really think that coaches get burned out at the same school much quicker today than years ago. Aside from the elite jobs I think guys moving every 5-7 years is more the rule than exception today.

I don't think that I can agree with you Goose.  At least not regarding the really good coaches.  It took Indiana to lure Crean away.  It took Arizona to finally lure Sean Miller away from Xavier.  Both of those guys had lots of opportunities before they left to make smaller moves up elsewhere.  Look at Stevens sticking with Butler, Smart sticking with VCU, again both of those guys were/are in high demand every off season, yet they're biding their time.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 06, 2013, 12:22:10 PM
Sure, every coach is to some degree an independent contractor, but the idea that their characters, motivations, etc are all the same is inaccurate. Do you really think that Mark Few is just like John Calipari? I don't.

I would never imply that their character is the same, because obviously it isn't.

Specific motivations will also differ from coach to coach.

But, in the industry, as a whole, we (as fans) should be comfortable with coaches doing what is best for themselves and their families, because that is who they are really loyal to.

The coaches don't have the built in loyalty and passion for these specific schools that we have. We can't expect them to.

I love Buzz and Buzz loves MU. But, if Buzz has several losing season in a row, he'll be fired, and if Buzz gets a monster contract offer from (insert pro or college team), he will consider leaving.

Some people are just uncomfortable with this reality because we all want to romanticize it. Hell, Al McGuire tried to leave MU for a pro job!

Quote from: warriorchick on March 06, 2013, 12:22:23 PM
Maybe I am missing something....

But other than one LW interview in which he made some rather generalized statements, a few unsubstantiated rumors, and a crapload of conjecture by rabid Domer haters, what evidence exists that LW and Buzz are at odds with each other in any meaningful way?

Please, enlighten me.

+1

Don't you know that on internet message boards,
the rumors, hearsay, and conjecture ARE the evidence?

Now, who wants some scotch?

(http://www.bobpitch.com/anon/LionelHutz.jpg)

Quote from: warriorchick on March 06, 2013, 12:22:23 PM
Maybe I am missing something....

But other than one LW interview in which he made some rather generalized statements, a few unsubstantiated rumors, and a crapload of conjecture by rabid Domer haters, what evidence exists that LW and Buzz are at odds with each other in any meaningful way?

Please, enlighten me.

There's no actual evidence but there doesn't need to be. Lots of people know people who heard things.

LittleMurs

I think we both might be right if you using Crean as example. He would have made lateral move the previous year from I heard. May or may not be true but he was looking to bolt. He might have got lucky with IU because of the problems they were having. Plus I think guys can justify to themselves why some lateral moves make sense. It comes down money and ultimate motivation. While I hope Buzz and MU can win NC in next five years I cannot say with certainty if it can happen. Buzz at Texas I think is better chance for NC.