Xavier and Butler only. I could live with this.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/blog/eye-on-college-basketball/21787349/catholic-7-looking-at-nine-schools-might-stop-there
The Catholic 7 may only expand to nine schools.
According to multiple sources, the seven teams leaving the Big East -- Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, Seton Hall, St. John's, DePaul and Providence -- may only add Xavier and Butler in the immediate future. There has been speculation the league would expand to 12 teams, but it now appears that it will be a nine- or 10-team league. Sources revealed there is a lack of consensus among the above schools on who the 10th member should be.
Creighton, Saint Louis, Dayton, Richmond and VCU were all under consideration if the league opted to expand to 10 or 12 teams.
"Nine teams would be ideal in the sense that each team would be able to play every team twice in the league," one source said.
ESPN story:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9000502/catholic-7-schools-keep-big-east-name-new-league-next-season-according-sources
The Big East's departing Catholic 7 schools are expected to start their own league next season and will keep the Big East Conference name, sources told ESPN's Brett McMurphy, Andy Katz and Dana O'Neil.
Joining the Catholic 7 schools -- DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova -- in the new "Big East" this fall will be Xavier and Butler, sources said.
No way. I would think Fox would want at least an 18-game schedule, so 10 teams allows for 9 home and 9 away games. Do any leagues play 16 game schedules anymore?
Quote from: Aughnanure on February 28, 2013, 05:00:29 PM
No way. I would think Fox would want at least an 18-game schedule, so 10 teams allows for 9 home and 9 away games. Do any leagues play 16 game schedules anymore?
Perhaps Fox is willing to trade some conference matchups involving the likes of Dayton or St. Louis for more appealing non-conference games, maybe Georgetown-UConn, Marquette-Gonzaga, Xavier-Cincy, Butler-Memphis, etc.
Fewer conference games gives these programs flexibility to schedule more quality OOC matchups without losing the necessary buy games.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 28, 2013, 05:02:57 PM
Perhaps Fox is willing to trade some conference matchups involving the likes of Dayton or St. Louis for more appealing non-conference games, maybe Georgetown-UConn, Marquette-Gonzaga, Xavier-Cincy, Butler-Memphis, etc.
Fewer conference games gives these programs flexibility to schedule more quality OOC matchups without losing the necessary buy games.
STJ has already scheduled Syracuse for the next 2 years.
How many teams does a league need for an auto bid to the tourney? For some reason I thought it was 10
Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 28, 2013, 05:10:59 PM
How many teams does a league need for an auto bid to the tourney? For some reason I thought it was 10
1) Every conference gets an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament.
2) It won't matter whether the C7 gets an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament or not, because they will be sending multiple at large teams to the NCAA Tournament every year.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2013, 05:17:43 PM
2) It won't matter whether the C7 gets an automatic bid to the NCAA Tournament or not, because they will be sending multiple at large teams to the NCAA Tournament every year.
Oh, it matters. The lack of an automatic bid won't keep the conference from being a multi-bid league, but it certainly makes the conference tourney more interesting, at least for bubble teams and teams who only would get in that way.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 28, 2013, 05:20:20 PM
Oh, it matters. The lack of an automatic bid won't keep the conference from being a multi-bid league, but it certainly makes the conference tourney more interesting, at least for bubble teams and teams who only would get in that way.
How often do teams that wouldn't get into the NCAA Tournament from the top 6 conferences (I would consider the C7 at least on par with the bottom of those conferences in every year) win their conference tournament and take over an automatic bid? Very, very rarely.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2013, 05:27:31 PM
How often do teams that wouldn't get into the NCAA Tournament from the top 6 conferences (I would consider the C7 at least on par with the bottom of those conferences in every year) win their conference tournament and take over an automatic bid? Very, very rarely.
I don't care to examine a decade worth of automatic bids to find out, because you're missing the point.
The automatic bid gives all conference teams (and their fans) reason to care. It's also an essential element of the whole March Madness hoopla, the idea that anyone can get into the tourney. Take away the bid, and 3-4 teams in the conference (and their fan base) have no reason to care or watch.
I would love this, and have been advocating it on these boards. I think 9 is better, for at least for the first few years.
It'll be up to 10 teams next year. Seven, plus X and butler. If ND can't get to the acc next year, they'll hang around with the c-7. Then bring in creighton and SLU after that and we're good
Quote from: setyoursightsnorth on February 28, 2013, 05:38:49 PM
It'll be up to 10 teams next year. Seven, plus X and butler. If ND can't get to the acc next year, they'll hang around with the c-7
No thanks. We don't need to serve as a one-year home for ND. Best of luck to them...somehow I think they'll land on their feet.
Why 13 schools...if that's the case leave Dayton behind and stick with 12
ESPN just reported that we will have a 9-team league in 2013-14 then will add Creighton, Dayton, and St. Louis in 2014.
Its one of things where I dont care. I just want to leave.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 28, 2013, 05:10:59 PM
How many teams does a league need for an auto bid to the tourney? For some reason I thought it was 10
6.
I don't think this is a bad move, so long as it doesn't affect the per-school $ from Fox. Keeps the basketball product really strong, with I'd guess up to 7 of 9 teams that could be bubble teams or locks next year (all but DePaul and SH). If 5-6 of those can actually make it, those are pretty good odds.
And, I like the idea of flexibility to schedule a few more tough non-conference games.
Quote from: MUMountin on February 28, 2013, 05:53:16 PM
6.
I don't think this is a bad move, so long as it doesn't affect the per-school $ from Fox. Keeps the basketball product really strong, with I'd guess up to 7 of 9 teams that could be bubble teams or locks next year (all but DePaul and SH). If 5-6 of those can actually make it, those are pretty good odds.
And, I like the idea of flexibility to schedule a few more tough non-conference games.
I don't think it can be 6. Has to be at least 7 because the requirement is 7 teams that have been in a league together for 5 years. That's exactly why Marquette and DePaul were added to the Big East in 2005, with the idea of the football schools and basketball schools eventually going their separate ways.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 28, 2013, 05:54:47 PM
I don't think it can be 6. Has to be at least 7 because the requirement is 7 teams that have been in a league together for 5 years. That's exactly why Marquette and DePaul were added to the Big East in 2005, with the idea of the football schools and basketball schools eventually going their separate ways.
Didn't they drop the requirement to 6 for the WAC's sake a couple years ago?
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 28, 2013, 05:49:32 PM
ESPN just reported that we will have a 9-team league in 2013-14 then will add Creighton, Dayton, and St. Louis in 2014.
I don't know if this is a typo in the ESPN article but the final paragraph says:
Quote
While Butler, Xavier and a team yet to be determined are expected to join the new Big East this fall, the Catholic 7 schools are also expected to add Creighton, Dayton and St. Louis in 2014 for a 13-team league.
Let the theories begin...
Spot open for Gonzaga
Quote from: Warriors10 on February 28, 2013, 06:03:36 PM
I don't know if this is a typo in the ESPN article but the final paragraph says:
Let the theories begin...
Spot open for Gonzaga
It will be one of SLU, Creighton or Richmond most likely. Also could be VCU or Dayton, though it seems there isn't a ton of support for Dayton.
If Notre Dame gets a free year with the C7east, it better have strings. Little or no television revenue, or future year scheduling obligations.
And please don't bother going to 13 teams. Going from 12-13 teams is a 8.3% growth, and adds 8.3% of additional regular season games...does that really increase the per school share of revenue when that 13th team is as lame as Dayton? It certainly doesn't increase the basketball product; we already have too many teams that never make the tournament in the C7.
Screw ND. Let them park their team somewhere else for one year.
Having said that, I'd love to see a long-term home-and-home series with them.
Quote from: muguru on February 28, 2013, 06:05:21 PM
It will be one of SLU, Creighton or Richmond most likely. Also could be VCU or Dayton, though it seems there isn't a ton of support for Dayton.
It seems to me that all of today's articles have been mentioning Dayton, with silence regarding schools like Richmond and VCU.
I'm hearing it will be 10 and that person is at FOX Sports who told me.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 28, 2013, 06:22:19 PM
I'm hearing it will be 10 and that person is at FOX Sports who told me.
ESPN concurs.
Now reporting that Creighton will be the 10th member this fall, with Dayton and St. Louis possibly joining in 2014.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on February 28, 2013, 06:17:35 PM
It seems to me that all of today's articles have been mentioning Dayton, with silence regarding schools like Richmond and VCU.
Richmond, VCU, SLU and Dayton will be in the group of 4 considered. No one really wants Dayton though, and Xavier may not want them in. There were reports from Xavier insiders stating as much. Not sure Dayton will get in.
So if it helps, what my birdie is saying is one "west" and one "east" for expansion if he were to bet, but he doesn't know for sure. I suggested SLU and VCU and he said "possible".
Take it for whatever it's worth, which is not much right now.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 28, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
So if it helps, what my birdie is saying is one "west" and one "east" for expansion if he were to bet, but he doesn't know for sure. I suggested SLU and VCU and he said "possible".
Take it for whatever it's worth, which is not much right now.
Is this after Xavier, Butler and Creighton sign on for a 10-team league? I'd take SLU and VCU for a 12-team league, as I'm in the ABD camp.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 28, 2013, 06:35:06 PM
So if it helps, what my birdie is saying is one "west" and one "east" for expansion if he were to bet, but he doesn't know for sure. I suggested SLU and VCU and he said "possible".
Take it for whatever it's worth, which is not much right now.
This lends some credibility to the Feinstein article which suggested that the eastern schools would want another eastern school added to achieve geographic balance between midwestern and eastern teams with six teams in each region.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on February 28, 2013, 06:00:42 PM
Didn't they drop the requirement to 6 for the WAC's sake a couple years ago?
Correct... six. But either way, the C7 will have an auto bid next year.
Quote from: Norm on February 28, 2013, 08:09:26 PM
Is this after Xavier, Butler and Creighton sign on for a 10-team league? I'd take SLU and VCU for a 12-team league, as I'm in the ABD camp.
Yes, after...next round
Quote from: LittleMurs on February 28, 2013, 08:11:09 PM
This lends some credibility to the Feinstein article which suggested that the eastern schools would want another eastern school added to achieve geographic balance between midwestern and eastern teams with six teams in each region.
Don't like this at all. Too easy to make "Divisions" for scheduling. Would deny the Midwest teams the East Coast exposure they're looking for.
And it would deny MU home and home games with Georgetown and Nova, presumably the two teams MU would most like to play twice.
Quote from: Groin_pull on February 28, 2013, 06:15:34 PM
Screw ND. Let them park their team somewhere else for one year.
Having said that, I'd love to see a long-term home-and-home series with them.
Wrong ... ND is getting weaved into the C7 (or is it "the new Big East?") so when the ACC blows up, they don't have to change anything, they just continue on.
Screw Uconn/Lousiville/Cincy and USF.
Quote from: buckchuckler on February 28, 2013, 08:27:29 PM
And it would deny MU home and home games with Georgetown and Nova, presumably the two teams MU would most like to play twice.
And to go along with that, Fox would not have that. It would "fix" 16/18 games on the schedule each year (10 home-and-home vs. division, 6 vs. other division, only 2 semi-flexible). Similar to how the old/current Big East arranged home and homes to give some weight to projected strength, the television partner wants the flexibility in the schedule that allows them to have the best slate of marquee games. Without divisions and 12 teams you really only "fix" 11/18 games.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 28, 2013, 08:18:57 PM
Don't like this at all. Too easy to make "Divisions" for scheduling. Would deny the Midwest teams the East Coast exposure they're looking for.
I don't know, couldn't you get creative?? I don't like the divisional idea either...BUT what if you just play more conference games then?? Say for instance you have a 12 team league, and still play each team twice?? It balanced, and it's only 4 more conference games than what they play now. It's beneficial in several regards. Teams would have to give up some non conference games yes, but if they were going to be "buy" games anyway, is that such a bad thing?? I mean with more money in this TV contract, perhaps the schools could give up those buy games?? In reality, in a two week time span(which is what you'd have to add 4 more conference games if two games per week), most teams would play what?? Maybe 3 non conference games in a two week span??
So you are giving up playing Bethune Cookman, Mercer and Kennesaw State, in exchange for Georgetown, Villanova and St, John's. All games that would draw better anyway. I bet if one crunched the numbers, the lost revenue if any under this set up would be minimal when everything is factored in.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on February 28, 2013, 08:18:57 PM
Don't like this at all. Too easy to make "Divisions" for scheduling. Would deny the Midwest teams the East Coast exposure they're looking for.
It would make divisions "easy", but in no way mandatory. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see the division concept used for all sports except basketball (men's and women's) which would use a system like the current Big East one with home and away opponents rotating each year.
Man I thought with that whole South Florida/freedom of information act release of BE financial data, we would have learned our lesson about bringing in a public school. Why the hell is VCU still coming up in conversations as an expansion team??
Divisions in 2014?
East
G-Town
SH
SJ
NOVA
PC
X
West
MU
DP
Creighton
SLU
Dayton
Butler
Divisions would the worst thing that could happen to us in this league.
Quote from: Litehouse on February 28, 2013, 10:31:13 PM
Divisions would the worst thing that could happen to us in this league.
+ 1,000,000
Quote from: LittleMurs on February 28, 2013, 08:11:09 PM
This lends some credibility to the Feinstein article which suggested that the eastern schools would want another eastern school added to achieve geographic balance between midwestern and eastern teams with six teams in each region.
The same Feinstein article that had Siena and Detroit in the mix?
Realistically, there will be divisions.
Divisions for everything not basketball.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2013, 05:27:31 PM
How often do teams that wouldn't get into the NCAA Tournament from the top 6 conferences (I would consider the C7 at least on par with the bottom of those conferences in every year) win their conference tournament and take over an automatic bid? Very, very rarely.
Didn't this just happen with UCON a few years ago? They won so many games in the Big East Tourney b/c they had a mediocre record and had to play from day 1. they won the big east tourney and then went on to win the national championship. I recall them being firmly on the bubble prior to the big east tourney.
Quote from: Schmidtyfactor on February 28, 2013, 10:58:22 PM
Didn't this just happen with UCON a few years ago? They won so many games in the Big East Tourney b/c they had a mediocre record and had to play from day 1. they won the big east tourney and then went on to win the national championship. I recall them being firmly on the bubble prior to the big east tourney.
Bubble team prior to the tournament, no doubt. I believe they were 9-9.
UConn was not on the bubble. They were undefeated in non-con, including winning the Maui invitational. However, Georgia won the SEC tourney a few years back to make the NCAA tourney. They were nowhere near the bubble.
Quote from: warriorstrack on February 28, 2013, 10:26:40 PM
Divisions in 2014?
East
G-Town
SH
SJ
NOVA
PC
X
West
MU
DP
Creighton
SLU
Dayton
Butler
Do. Not. Like.
Stay at 10 if 12 means divisions.
I don't expect MU to let this fly, and I am confident that the C7 will back MU's wishes.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on February 28, 2013, 11:13:57 PM
UConn was not on the bubble. They were undefeated in non-con, including winning the Maui invitational. However, Georgia won the SEC tourney a few years back to make the NCAA tourney. They were nowhere near the bubble.
Iowa won the Big 10 tourney in 2001 heading in with little hope for an NCAA bid.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on February 28, 2013, 11:13:57 PM
UConn was not on the bubble. They were undefeated in non-con, including winning the Maui invitational. However, Georgia won the SEC tourney a few years back to make the NCAA tourney. They were nowhere near the bubble.
Google bubble watch uconn 2010-2011.
Syracuse won in 2006 and probably wouldn't have made it otherwise.
There will not be divisions.
Won't the league we are leaving lose their auto bid for a few years? If I remember correctly, you need 6 schools together for 5 years. After Rutgers/Louisville/Pittsburgh/Syracuse/ND/C7 leave, they'll be down to just UConn, Cincinnati and USF as members with at least 5 years, right?
Quote from: PTM on February 28, 2013, 11:29:00 PM
Google bubble watch uconn 2010-2011.
I did.. UConn was a lock in mid to late February...before the conference tourney.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 01, 2013, 06:53:03 AM
Won't the league we are leaving lose their auto bid for a few years? If I remember correctly, you need 6 schools together for 5 years. After Rutgers/Louisville/Pittsburgh/Syracuse/ND/C7 leave, they'll be down to just UConn, Cincinnati and USF as members with at least 5 years, right?
When this was starting to sort itself out, the NCAA made some kind of statement that both the C7 and the Old Big East would end up with Autobids. Relied in some way on the unprecedented nature of all of the conference restructuring upheaval. I'd be very surprised if we didn't have an autobid, regardless of what formal requirements there might be.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 01, 2013, 08:02:08 AM
I did.. UConn was a lock in mid to late February...before the conference tourney.
UCON finished the Big East regular season in a tie for
ninth place at 9–9.
I know the Big East is deep, but this is definitely bubble territory. If they were 1 and done, their bubble might have popped.
Quote from: Schmidtyfactor on March 01, 2013, 10:14:50 AM
UCON finished the Big East regular season in a tie for ninth place at 9–9.
I know the Big East is deep, but this is definitely bubble territory. If they were 1 and done, their bubble might have popped.
Wasn't that the year that, despite the 9-9 conference record, they had a ridiculously high SOS/RPI ranking?
Quote from: Schmidtyfactor on March 01, 2013, 10:14:50 AM
UCON finished the Big East regular season in a tie for ninth place at 9–9.
I know the Big East is deep, but this is definitely bubble territory. If they were 1 and done, their bubble might have popped.
Sorry, that's just not correct. They were a lock. Their Non-con was ridiculous (they beat Michigan St., Texas and Kentucky, all of them road/neutral games), and they were ranked 21st in the country going INTO the Big East tourney. I looked...I could not find a single site that had them as a bubble team going into the Big East tourney.
Quote from: Benny B on March 01, 2013, 10:20:45 AM
Wasn't that the year that, despite the 9-9 conference record, they had a ridiculously high SOS/RPI ranking?
Yes. At the end of the regular season, UConn had an RPI rank of 14 and an SOS of 7. They were in no way, shape or form on the bubble. To say they were is revisionist history.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on March 01, 2013, 10:36:44 AM
Yes. At the end of the regular season, UConn had an RPI rank of 14 and an SOS of 7. They were in no way, shape or form on the bubble. To say they were is revisionist history.
They may not have been on the bubble going into the NCAA tourney, but a first round loss to DePaul may have moved them there.
Quote from: The Equalizer on March 01, 2013, 06:45:41 PM
They may not have been on the bubble going into the NCAA tourney, but a first round loss to DePaul may have moved them there.
Nobody is on the bubble going into the NCAA tourney - you're either in or out. As to the Big East tourney, a loss to DePaul would have been embarrassing but wouldn't have put the #14 RPI team on the bubble.
Quote from: Schmidtyfactor on March 01, 2013, 10:14:50 AM
UCON finished the Big East regular season in a tie for ninth place at 9–9.
I know the Big East is deep, but this is definitely bubble territory. If they were 1 and done, their bubble might have popped.
Looked up their RPI, pretty sure they were in regardless. They had wins against MSU (38), UK (13), Tennessee(32), Texas(8), Marquette(54), Villanova(22), Georgetown(6) and Cinci(31).
Their losses were to teams with RPI's of 7,12,17,18,21,54 (ahem, Marquette),16 and 12. That is a tourney resume for sure.
They were in. They were never on the bubble. Not even close.
Quote from: Schmidtyfactor on March 01, 2013, 10:14:50 AM
UCON finished the Big East regular season in a tie for ninth place at 9–9.
I know the Big East is deep, but this is definitely bubble territory. If they were 1 and done, their bubble might have popped.
I thought the whole argument was about getting in only with the automatic bid. So if they only needed 2 wins in the tourney to get it, this isn't a good example.