1) Davante Gardner can play an effective 33 minutes - probably a good thing Buzz only played him 11 at Nova.
2) The lineup of Cadougan, Mayo, Jamil, Steve/Otule and Davante caused major problems for Cuse...on both ends of the floor.
3) Time to reduce minutes to less than 5 for Juan (who is still a year away) and give more to Jamil and Steve Taylor, Derrick Wilson (give minutes only as a breather when Junior needs them)
4) Time to flip flop the minutes of Mayo and Lockett - can still start Trent - but Mayo needs to finish games and play more minutes. Todd's quickness and rise and fire ability better fit the team - Lockett is just a step slow...but a gritty/tough player who's best attribute is rebounding.
5) One of the most fun MU games to watch in a long time...big play after big play, and kept on fighting when they fell behind...a gritty win...that erases the sting and annoyance of Villanova loss.
Quote from: Ners on February 25, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
1) Davante Gardner can play an effective 33 minutes - probably a good thing Buzz only played him 11 at Nova.
2) The lineup of Cadougan, Mayo, Jamil, Steve/Otule and Davante caused major problems for Cuse...on both ends of the floor.
3) Time to reduce minutes to less than 5 for Juan (who is still a year away) and give more to Jamil and Steve Taylor, Derrick Wilson (give minutes only as a breather when Junior needs them)
4) Time to flip flop the minutes of Mayo and Lockett - can still start Trent - but Mayo needs to finish games and play more minutes. Todd's quickness and rise and fire ability better fit the team - Lockett is just a step slow...but a gritty/tough player who's best attribute is rebounding.
5) One of the most fun MU games to watch in a long time...big play after big play, and kept on fighting when they fell behind...a gritty win...that erases the sting and annoyance of Villanova loss.
I agree 100% on everything you said here. Taylor and Mayo need to see the floor more!
Quote from: Ners on February 25, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
3) Time to reduce minutes to less than 5 for Juan (who is still a year away) and give more to Jamil and Steve Taylor, Derrick Wilson (give minutes only as a breather when Junior needs them)
He played 2 minutes tonight ... done
Honestly, I think a lot of it depends on the type of game that is being played. It was a great move by Buzz to go big against the zone, but that might not work every game. But it's nice to have options.
Quote from: Ners on February 25, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
1) Davante Gardner can play an effective 33 minutes - probably a good thing Buzz only played him 11 at Nova.
I am confused about the youthful stamina question. I remember that at their age I could play for hours. Man, I was ready to go with my waking breath. And if I played on Saturday afternoon I often was eager to get in more playing time that night. And on Sunday morning.
Is there something you know about Gardner's stamina that makes this an issue?
Quote from: Ners on February 25, 2013, 09:24:08 PM
4) Time to flip flop the minutes of Mayo and Lockett - can still start Trent - but Mayo needs to finish games and play more minutes. Todd's quickness and rise and fire ability better fit the team - Lockett is just a step slow...but a gritty/tough player who's best attribute is rebounding.
Let's not get carried away on Mayo. Yeah, he hit a big shot but he was only 2-6 from the floor in 16 minutes. The Lockett/Mayo minutes will likely depend on the type of game being played. Mayo is a better scorer while Lockett is better at everything else.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2013, 09:49:01 PM
Let's not get carried away on Mayo. Yeah, he hit a big shot but he was only 2-6 from the floor in 16 minutes. The Lockett/Mayo minutes will likely depend on the type of game being played. Mayo is a better scorer while Lockett is better at everything else.
I disagree Mayo is a better on ball defender as well. Which only leaves lockett as a better rebounder.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 09:48:27 PM
I am confused about the youthful stamina question. I remember that at their age I could play for hours. Man, I was ready to go with my waking breath. And if I played on Saturday afternoon I often was eager to get in more playing time that night. And on Sunday morning.
Is there something you know about Gardner's stamina that makes this an issue?
Did you go constantly go 100% while carrying 300 pounds on your frame and get shoved, scratched and bumped by 250-pound guys on every single possession?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2013, 09:49:01 PM
Mayo is a better scorer while Lockett is better at everything else.
Man, I don't know about this. Lockett hustles and is all heart but he's a step slow on defense and often forces things when he gets the ball. Mayo's threes were bigger than Thomas' 4 pointer.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 09:51:46 PM
Man, I don't know about this. Lockett hustles and is all heart but he's a step slow on defense and often forces things when he gets the ball. Mayo's threes were bigger than Thomas' 4 pointer.
Agree 100%
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 09:51:46 PM
Man, I don't know about this. Lockett hustles and is all heart but he's a step slow on defense and often forces things when he gets the ball. Mayo's threes were bigger than Thomas' 4 pointer.
Statistically speaking, per 40 minutes played...
Lockett: 40.8% FG, 33.3% 3pt, 75.9% FT, 6.9 reb, 2.7 ast, 0.6 blocks, 1.2 steals, 2.7 TO, 1.0 A/TO, 11.4 PPG
Mayo: 40.0% FG, 31.8% 3pt, 81.6% FT, 3.4 reb, 1.8 ast, 0.3 blocks, 1.3 steals, 2.9 TO, 0.6 A/TO, 18.3 PPG
The thing I notice (and appreciate) about Mayo is that he can effectively feed the high post vs a zone. He'll be at the top of the key extended, and he will fake like he's passing to his right, causing the zone to shift a bit to Mayo's right, opening up a passing lane into the high post, which Mayo utilizes.
I can't say I never see any other MU players employ this (pretty damn basic, really) tactic against the zone, but it's rare. I see Mayo do it regularly. I'd really like to see it from the rest of the team as well.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2013, 09:51:36 PM
Did you go constantly go 100% while carrying 300 pounds on your frame and get shoved, scratched and bumped by 250-pound guys on every single possession?
You mean, parachuting at night behind enemy lines then carrying my 210 pounds PLUS another 120 on my back on 10-12 day missions behind the lines in Tora Bora while guys who didn't like us were trying to put an end to our distinguished service? Shoved, scratched, and bumped? How about taking two 7.62mm rounds in the leg and side, getting smoked by an IED in Diyala, bitten by a viper, stung by a scorpion in Anbar province?
Yea, I would say Air Force TACP JTACs give at least 100%. If not more.
My observation is that it is a real pleasure to have a coach once again who makes in-game adjustments that work!
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 10:06:51 PM
You mean, parachuting at night behind enemy lines then carrying my 210 pounds PLUS another 120 on my back on 10-12 day missions behind the lines in Tora Bora while guys who didn't like us were trying to put an end to our distinguished service? Shoved, scratched, and bumped? How about taking two 7.62mm rounds in the leg and side, getting smoked by an IED in Diyala, bitten by a viper, stung by a scorpion in Anbar province?
Yea, I would say Air Force TACP JTACs give at least 100%. If not more.
How did you come to be bitten by a viper?
Before we start calling for Mayo to get more minutes, let's all go watch the Seton Hall tape again.
Buzz uses Mayo exactly how he ought to. He gets a chance to come on and show that 'good Todd' has shown up and if he can't, then he rides the pine in favor of more consistant contributors.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 10:06:51 PM
You mean, parachuting at night behind enemy lines then carrying my 210 pounds PLUS another 120 on my back on 10-12 day missions behind the lines in Tora Bora while guys who didn't like us were trying to put an end to our distinguished service? Shoved, scratched, and bumped? How about taking two 7.62mm rounds in the leg and side, getting smoked by an IED in Diyala, bitten by a viper, stung by a scorpion in Anbar province?
Yea, I would say Air Force TACP JTACs give at least 100%. If not more.
Thank you for your service. However, what does that have to do with Gardner's stamina in a college basketball game vs your stamina in pick-up games?
Quote from: AZWarrior on February 25, 2013, 10:06:02 PM
I can't say I never see any other MU players employ this (pretty damn basic, really) tactic against the zone, but it's rare. I see Mayo do it regularly. I'd really like to see it from the rest of the team as well.
No joke, in the gameday chat I pointed out how refreshing it was to see Jake Thomas do this in the game tonight.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 10:06:51 PM
You mean, parachuting at night behind enemy lines then carrying my 210 pounds PLUS another 120 on my back on 10-12 day missions behind the lines in Tora Bora while guys who didn't like us were trying to put an end to our distinguished service? Shoved, scratched, and bumped? How about taking two 7.62mm rounds in the leg and side, getting smoked by an IED in Diyala, bitten by a viper, stung by a scorpion in Anbar province?
Yea, I would say Air Force TACP JTACs give at least 100%. If not more.
Alright dude give it a rest. Beating everyone over the head with your service on a message board isn't very befitting of a true operator IMO. I wonder if a CCT would be so quick to blow his own horn. ;)
It's also a completely apples oranges comparison. Two completely different types of fitness.
Quote from: AZWarrior on February 25, 2013, 10:06:02 PM
The thing I notice (and appreciate) about Mayo is that he can effectively feed the high post vs a zone. He'll be at the top of the key extended, and he will fake like he's passing to his right, causing the zone to shift a bit to Mayo's right, opening up a passing lane into the high post, which Mayo utilizes.
I can't say I never see any other MU players employ this (pretty damn basic, really) tactic against the zone, but it's rare. I see Mayo do it regularly. I'd really like to see it from the rest of the team as well.
Jamil does this frequently as well
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 09:51:46 PM
Man, I don't know about this. Lockett hustles and is all heart but he's a step slow on defense and often forces things when he gets the ball. Mayo's threes were bigger than Thomas' 4 pointer.
No way. Thomas four point play turned the tide. Led to another turnover and we had six points in 20 seconds. We were about to go into half time down double digits. We end up down three. Huge turnaround.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2013, 10:03:16 PM
Statistically speaking, per 40 minutes played...
Lockett: 40.8% FG, 33.3% 3pt, 75.9% FT, 6.9 reb, 2.7 ast, 0.6 blocks, 1.2 steals, 2.7 TO, 1.0 A/TO, 11.4 PPG
Mayo: 40.0% FG, 31.8% 3pt, 81.6% FT, 3.4 reb, 1.8 ast, 0.3 blocks, 1.3 steals, 2.9 TO, 0.6 A/TO, 18.3 PPG
Thanks for basically proving the point that Mayo would give you more than Lockett - sorry, I'll take 7ppg more in 40 minutes over 3.5 rebounds. Todd has had very few extended runs - where he gets to play 7-10 minutes straight - he's been on a pretty short leash, and its harder to get in a rhythm when your minutes are hard to come by, or you get pulled fairly quickly. Todd is a much better on ball defender than Lockett as well. This is not me hating on Trent or anything either - Todd is simply the more dynamic player.
Quote from: Ners on February 25, 2013, 10:38:59 PM
Thanks for basically proving the point that Mayo would give you more than Lockett - sorry, I'll take 7ppg more in 40 minutes over 3.5 rebounds. Todd has had very few extended runs - where he gets to play 7-10 minutes straight - he's been on a pretty short leash, and its harder to get in a rhythm when your minutes are hard to come by, or you get pulled fairly quickly. Todd is a much better on ball defender than Lockett as well. This is not me hating on Trent or anything either - Todd is simply the more dynamic player.
If MU gets 3.5 fewer rebounds a game, that could be an average 7 more points per game for the opposition ;)
Quote from: jzpenguin on February 25, 2013, 09:41:25 PM
Honestly, I think a lot of it depends on the type of game that is being played. It was a great move by Buzz to go big against the zone, but that might not work every game. But it's nice to have options.
This.
Big ups to Buzz for knowing his personnel.
He sat the players who needed to sit: Juan (after his forced TO), Lockett (general ineffectiveness toward zone), the rest of the gang who were inexperienced (sans StevieT), but utilized the players who were getting things done (Otule/Gardner screening off inside; Mayo/Blue/Gardner defensively; StevieT/Jamil for quick zone flashes).
Quote from: AZWarrior on February 25, 2013, 10:09:16 PM
How did you come to be bitten by a viper?
We were calling in A-10 air strikes between Tikrit and Samarra in support of some Stryker units that were doing a sweep of the highway along the Tigris River. This was the heart of the Baathist insurgency when Salah Al-Din was hotter than a pistol. That day the Tangos figured out our tactical position and we started getting our asses kicked, we were getting hammered with some heavy crew served stuff, so we beat feet and took cover in the reeds along the river. One of the guys kicked open a nest of the suckers. There were 6 in our JTAC team and four of us got bitten. Hurt like a mother but our corpsman was on it with needles and rubber hose. Meanwhile our ROMAD, despite having been bitten on his hand, had the presence of mind to call in two F 16 CJs to lay down a load of Snake and Nape that made the bad guys keep their heads down and we hitched a ride on a passing Black Hawk to Balad AB which was only about 12 minutes away. I still have the two fang hole scars in my thigh and the skin looks as if I have a bruise.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2013, 10:22:14 PM
Thank you for your service. However, what does that have to do with Gardner's stamina in a college basketball game vs your stamina in pick-up games?
Uh, I wasn't speaking of basketball stamina
Quote from: jzpenguin on February 25, 2013, 09:41:25 PM
Honestly, I think a lot of it depends on the type of game that is being played. It was a great move by Buzz to go big against the zone, but that might not work every game. But it's nice to have options.
Yup. It's also somewhat risky. With Gardner, Otule, and Wilson out there together you could have foul trouble or stamina issues later in the game. That said, I was thrilled to see Buzz try it, and even more thrilled at how well it payed off. Cuse had zero answer for our size and strength with that lineup.
6.) This team has a large set of balls. Could have called it a game when down big but fought back.
(http://worldofwonder.net/image1/womanwbigballs.jpg)
Its one to say Mayo was only 2-6 but I think 3 of those were he got passed the ball with 2 seconds left on the shot clock, at about 25 feet. He Goes 1-3 on those that is not bad at all. better to have someone take that with a 33% chance of making it and the possiblity for a rebound then just having someone not even get a shot off.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 10:58:45 PM
We were calling in A-10 air strikes between Tikrit and Samarra in support of some Stryker units that were doing a sweep of the highway along the Tigris River. This was the heart of the Baathist insurgency when Salah Al-Din was hotter than a pistol. That day the Tangos figured out our tactical position and we started getting our asses kicked, we were getting hammered with some heavy crew served stuff, so we beat feet and took cover in the reeds along the river. One of the guys kicked open a nest of the suckers. There were 6 in our JTAC team and four of us got bitten. Hurt like a mother but our corpsman was on it with needles and rubber hose. Meanwhile our ROMAD, despite having been bitten on his hand, had the presence of mind to call in two F 16 CJs to lay down a load of Snake and Nape that made the bad guys keep their heads down and we hitched a ride on a passing Black Hawk to Balad AB which was only about 12 minutes away. I still have the two fang hole scars in my thigh and the skin looks as if I have a bruise.
slow clapping
Quote from: PTM on February 25, 2013, 11:01:23 PM
6.) This team has a large set of balls. Could have called it a game when down big but fought back.
(http://worldofwonder.net/image1/womanwbigballs.jpg)
Several times. They clawed their way back into it at least three times before they actually took the lead. It would have been easy to say eff it tonight but they didn't.
Mayo is one of the two most talented players on the team. Anytime his minutes are limited it's because of issues completely unrelated to the game at hand. I am telling you people, if you don't understand and appreciate this, you don't understand Buzz or this team. He's our best shooter and one of our best defenders. Figure it out.
Don't forget...free throws! We have GOT to practice them! That's on Buzz!
Mayo 2 out of 5 on threes, or 40%. Coach put him in for the first time in the 2nd half with 8:05 minutes to go, MU down 53-46. Hits a three at 7:21. Has an assist and hits a second three to put MU up 59-54 with 3:58 to go. Has another assist at 2:48 to put MU up 63-57. Steal by Mayo at 1:30 and a then fouled with two free throws to put MU up 65-57. MU goes from 7 down to 8 up in that span.
Jamil with 7 assists. Ox with the SOTG by just wearing down Cuse.
Junior was stellar getting behind the defense, which is what he does best.
Steve Taylor being Steve Taylor.
Hello Jake Thomas. Huge four. Great move by Buzz.
Quote from: AZWarrior on February 25, 2013, 10:09:16 PM
How did you come to be bitten by a viper?
AZ Warrior: the problem w ignore function is when you quote him and then I read the insufferable ... sigh
Quote from: kmwtrucks on February 25, 2013, 11:03:40 PM
Its one to say Mayo was only 2-6 but I think 3 of those were he got passed the ball with 2 seconds left on the shot clock, at about 25 feet. He Goes 1-3 on those that is not bad at all. better to have someone take that with a 33% chance of making it and the possiblity for a rebound then just having someone not even get a shot off.
That is correct. Mayo threw up a couple Hail Mary's that should not count against him.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 11:33:39 PM
That is correct. Mayo threw up a couple Hail Mary's that should not count against him.
And one of those hail mary's was a sick dagger after which Marquette never looked back.
Quote from: AZWarrior on February 25, 2013, 10:06:02 PM
The thing I notice (and appreciate) about Mayo is that he can effectively feed the high post vs a zone. He'll be at the top of the key extended, and he will fake like he's passing to his right, causing the zone to shift a bit to Mayo's right, opening up a passing lane into the high post, which Mayo utilizes.
I can't say I never see any other MU players employ this (pretty damn basic, really) tactic against the zone, but it's rare. I see Mayo do it regularly. I'd really like to see it from the rest of the team as well.
You actually make a great point. Mayo's court sense and BB IQ are exceptionally high. I have no idea about any off court issues but I am damn glad to have him on the floor.
Quote from: MUSF on February 25, 2013, 10:32:10 PM
Alright dude give it a rest. Beating everyone over the head with your service on a message board isn't very befitting of a true operator IMO. I wonder if a CCT would be so quick to blow his own horn. ;)
It's also a completely apples oranges comparison. Two completely different types of fitness.
The Special Tactics Squadron guys are the ballsiest guys in blue. No question. CCTs actually augment TACP/JTACs for reasons that need no explanation. There is no bluff or bluster in any of these stories. I see them as a dispassionate recounting of events that continue through today. Chicos relates conversations held around the office water cooler and, since he works in Sports Marketing/Broadcasting, his opinions as well as those of his colleagues have relevance. Read through this thread and I think you will see that my comment was merely insight on training and conditioning. Since you seem to know a CCT you will know the warrior culture is obsessive about strength, will power, and conditioning. I have no idea of the fitness level of some posters here but, from my informed perspective, I find it absurd that these kids cannot go at full speed for a 40 minute game.
As for the stamina question, I do call BS on the notion these 18-22 y/o's are bushed with only 48 hours rest between games. These guys have perpetual hard ons and if you can't recharge and reenergize with 48 hours rest then you need to take up billiards.
As for fitness, you are right that 12 days in the mountains is different than playing hoops for 40 minutes crammed into two hours. But there are situations in war that crams that 40 minutes of adrenaline into a few minutes. And one's physical response can mean the difference between life and death.
By the way, the surest way to smell bullshit coming is when a pilot begins a war story with the dreaded, "There I was!" The perpetrator is almost always an Eagle Driver whose sole function in life has been reduced to flying MiGCAP.
Quote from: WarriorHal on February 25, 2013, 10:08:13 PM
My observation is that it is a real pleasure to have a coach once again who makes in-game adjustments that work!
Yeah, I think Buzz did a real good job tonight of playing the type of player they needed. Sometimes that will be Lockett...sometimes that will be Mayo.
Quote from: Ners on February 25, 2013, 10:38:59 PM
Thanks for basically proving the point that Mayo would give you more than Lockett - sorry, I'll take 7ppg more in 40 minutes over 3.5 rebounds. Todd has had very few extended runs - where he gets to play 7-10 minutes straight - he's been on a pretty short leash, and its harder to get in a rhythm when your minutes are hard to come by, or you get pulled fairly quickly. Todd is a much better on ball defender than Lockett as well. This is not me hating on Trent or anything either - Todd is simply the more dynamic player.
I think Todd has more offensive upside then Trent (eye test), but he's not really
THAT much more efficient. He shoots a lot, but his percentages aren't great. (trent doesn't shoot much, and his percentages also aren't great).
With all of this said, I think Buzz uses Todd perfectly. In the right match-ups, he's been good. On other occasions he's been below average. He gets the minutes he earns. IF he continues to make shots and defend, he will get 15-20min. per game. If he misses shots and makes mental mistakes, he will get 5-8min. Buzz uses Taylor, Juan and Otule the same way. Play well, you will stay in. When your rotation is 9-10 guys, you have the ability to play the "hot hand" in any given game.
Great coaching tonight. Buzz was really moving the chess pieces around. Crowd brought a ton of energy and you can tell that the guys really feed on that.
Saturday is going to be insane.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 25, 2013, 09:51:36 PM
Did you go constantly go 100% while carrying 300 pounds on your frame and get shoved, scratched and bumped by 250-pound guys on every single possession?
A couple of broadcasts pointed out one of MU's statistical observations that Gardners productivity decreased dramatically when he played more than 20 min.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 26, 2013, 06:47:26 AM
With all of this said, I think Buzz uses Todd perfectly. In the right match-ups, he's been good. On other occasions he's been below average. He gets the minutes he earns. IF he continues to make shots and defend, he will get 15-20min. per game. If he misses shots and makes mental mistakes, he will get 5-8min. Buzz uses Taylor, Juan and Otule the same way. Play well, you will stay in. When your rotation is 9-10 guys, you have the ability to play the "hot hand" in any given game.
Which is exactly why you play 11 guys in a night.
If anything you can't simply say "Todd is better than Trent." Just a week ago against Seton Hall, Todd played like crap and Trent played fantastic. Let's just be happy this team has multiple parts that Buzz can plug into a game as needed.
Quote from: muhoops1 on February 26, 2013, 06:55:12 AM
A couple of broadcasts pointed out one of MU's statistical observations that Gardners productivity decreased dramatically when he played more than 20 min.
Somewhat related:
Am I the only one who thinks Gardner looks thinner since the beginning of the season? I know he's trimmed up from last year, but he even looks trimmer since Oct. His jersey looks a little looser (maybe just a different jersey?)
Either way, the kid has the best hands and feet I have seen in a long time. Drop another 20lbs and see if he can be a little more explosive, and I think he could more consistent on a nightly basis. Plus, that might allow Buzz to play him more at the 4, which really creates match-up problems for some teams.
Quote from: keefe on February 26, 2013, 01:10:54 AM
The Special Tactics Squadron guys are the ballsiest guys in blue. No question. CCTs actually augment TACP/JTACs for reasons that need no explanation. There is no bluff or bluster in any of these stories. I see them as a dispassionate recounting of events that continue through today. Chicos relates conversations held around the office water cooler and, since he works in Sports Marketing/Broadcasting, his opinions as well as those of his colleagues have relevance. Read through this thread and I think you will see that my comment was merely insight on training and conditioning. Since you seem to know a CCT you will know the warrior culture is obsessive about strength, will power, and conditioning. I have no idea of the fitness level of some posters here but, from my informed perspective, I find it absurd that these kids cannot go at full speed for a 40 minute game.
As for the stamina question, I do call BS on the notion these 18-22 y/o's are bushed with only 48 hours rest between games. These guys have perpetual hard ons and if you can't recharge and reenergize with 48 hours rest then you need to take up billiards.
As for fitness, you are right that 12 days in the mountains is different than playing hoops for 40 minutes crammed into two hours. But there are situations in war that crams that 40 minutes of adrenaline into a few minutes. And one's physical response can mean the difference between life and death.
By the way, the surest way to smell bullcrap coming is when a pilot begins a war story with the dreaded, "There I was!" The perpetrator is almost always an Eagle Driver whose sole function in life has been reduced to flying MiGCAP.
Look, If you want to compare military fitness to elite basketball fitness, fine. I think it's not a valid comparison, but go ahead and make it. That said, don't pretend that your original response was a simple comparison of fitness, endurance, and stamina between the two. There was a fair amount of chest beating in there.
The problem I have with this is two fold. One, it takes away from the conversation because very few posters will want to disagree or counter your point because they don't want to seem disrespectful of your service. Two, telling unsolicited war stories to strangers on a message board comes across as self-promoting and exposes people to information they don't really need.
Where I come from we pride ourselves on being quiet professionals. It's called SELFLESS service. You and the SEALS should keep this in mind.
Now, in the interest of good MU BBALL discourse, I will disengage from this.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 26, 2013, 07:10:24 AM
Somewhat related:
Am I the only one who thinks Gardner looks thinner since the beginning of the season?
Its funny, because I was thinking just the opposite. It seems to me he may have actually put on a little weight since the beginning of the season. If he can play extended minutes with energy like last night that bulk is an asset, because something tells me that even if he was 50 pounds lighter he wouldn't be that much better an athlete/jumper, etc.
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 11:00:00 PM
Uh, I wasn't speaking of basketball stamina
You brought up Gardner's conditioning in relation to your own personal conditioning while playing basketball at that age. I pointed out that Big East basketball is different than pick-up basketball. You then discussed stamina in terms of your military background. I guess I just don't follow. Are we talking about a college basketball player or a soldier? Perhaps you're going Walter Sobchak on us and there's not a literal connection...
Quote from: keefe on February 25, 2013, 11:33:39 PM
That is correct. Mayo threw up a couple Hail Mary's that should not count against him.
Should we count the Hail Mary that he made?
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 26, 2013, 06:47:26 AM
I think Todd has more offensive upside then Trent (eye test), but he's not really THAT much more efficient. He shoots a lot, but his percentages aren't great. (trent doesn't shoot much, and his percentages also aren't great).
With all of this said, I think Buzz uses Todd perfectly. In the right match-ups, he's been good. On other occasions he's been below average. He gets the minutes he earns. IF he continues to make shots and defend, he will get 15-20min. per game. If he misses shots and makes mental mistakes, he will get 5-8min. Buzz uses Taylor, Juan and Otule the same way. Play well, you will stay in. When your rotation is 9-10 guys, you have the ability to play the "hot hand" in any given game.
Great coaching tonight. Buzz was really moving the chess pieces around. Crowd brought a ton of energy and you can tell that the guys really feed on that.
Saturday is going to be insane.
As you know I'm a huge Buzz fan, but his usage of Mayo this season is an area where I'm critical of Buzz. A player rarely plays well when on a short leash as you describe above - miss a shot, or have a 1 mental breakdown and get yanked - no player thrives in that kind of role...which is the way its been for Todd. Give him some good run and a little slack and his efficiency will go up. Period.
As for mental mistakes - Lockett has made some of the most idiotic mental mistakes of the year fouling 3 point shooters....Georgetown game...and after he got bailed out as kid missed one of the 3 free throws...when we go to the other end and miss our FT..and GTown player rebounds and flings it 85 feet...Lockett almost fouls the kid. There have been others..those two just the most egregious.
Also - It's looking pretty tight on our bet...Mayo and Vander are neck and neck for PPG per 40...could be trending my way. Regardless, I'm glad the bet is this close as it bodes well for the MU team.
Quote from: Ners on February 26, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
As you know I'm a huge Buzz fan, but his usage of Mayo this season is an area where I'm critical of Buzz. A player rarely plays well when on a short leash as you describe above - miss a shot, or have a 1 mental breakdown and get yanked - no player thrives in that kind of role...which is the way its been for Todd. Give him some good run and a little slack and his efficiency will go up. Period.
Mayo doesn't get yanked if he misses a shot or has 1 mental breakdown. He may get yanked if he forces a shot or takes a bad shot, something Buzz has been harping on with him. He may also get yanked if he makes the same mental mistake that he's been making over and over and that the coaching staff has been stressing. Mayo is the prototypical "volume scorer." He can get hot and pour in points. He can also get cold, take bad shots and pout. Buzz is using him perfectly this season, especially considering he provides something different than Lockett and their games can compliment each other very well.
Also, as much as people talk up Mayo's offensive prowess, the offensively challenged Vander Blue actually has a higher career FG% (42.8% to 41.2%).
Quote from: Ners on February 26, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
As you know I'm a huge Buzz fan, but his usage of Mayo this season is an area where I'm critical of Buzz. A player rarely plays well when on a short leash as you describe above - miss a shot, or have a 1 mental breakdown and get yanked - no player thrives in that kind of role...which is the way its been for Todd. Give him some good run and a little slack and his efficiency will go up. Period.
As for mental mistakes - Lockett has made some of the most idiotic mental mistakes of the year fouling 3 point shooters....Georgetown game...and after he got bailed out as kid missed one of the 3 free throws...when we go to the other end and miss our FT..and GTown player rebounds and flings it 85 feet...Lockett almost fouls the kid. There have been others..those two just the most egregious.
Also - It's looking pretty tight on our bet...Mayo and Vander are neck and neck for PPG per 40...could be trending my way. Regardless, I'm glad the bet is this close as it bodes well for the MU team.
The problem with your theory is that Gardner and Steve Taylor are guys who HAVE excelled in sporadic minutes and short leashes.
DeDe in his frosh. and soph. year was subbed in and out all of the time. Taylor has seen really sporadic minutes, but seems to be efficient in the minutes he gets. Otule's minutes have been up and down as well this season.
You keep saying that guys don't do well on short leashes, but I just don't think that is factually accurate. There are several guys ON THIS ROSTER that seem to do well at it.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 26, 2013, 08:46:42 AM
You brought up Gardner's conditioning in relation to your own personal conditioning while playing basketball at that age. I pointed out that Big East basketball is different than pick-up basketball. You then discussed stamina in terms of your military background. I guess I just don't follow. Are we talking about a college basketball player or a soldier? Perhaps you're going Walter Sobchak on us and there's not a literal connection...
I don't think he was referring to basketball in his first post about his stamina. Maybe only horny old men like me would get that and of course 4ever and zfb
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 26, 2013, 07:47:25 AM
Its funny, because I was thinking just the opposite. It seems to me he may have actually put on a little weight since the beginning of the season. If he can play extended minutes with energy like last night that bulk is an asset, because something tells me that even if he was 50 pounds lighter he wouldn't be that much better an athlete/jumper, etc.
I agree--we were commenting on how he stuffed himself into that jersey last night. What a player though.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 25, 2013, 10:38:38 PM
No way. Thomas four point play turned the tide. Led to another turnover and we had six points in 20 seconds. We were about to go into half time down double digits. We end up down three. Huge turnaround.
This. It was the turning point for sure and showed the team that there was still a chance.
'Cuse is a unique animal in the BEast. And for the first time in memory MU is deep enough to have different line-ups that do different things. Last night it was absolutely critical to spread the floor so Davante could have some room to operate. The guys that were able to command some level of respect at the 3-pt line were able to do that. That won't necessarily be the solution every night.
The single best example of that last night was Jake. He was born to bust the Syracuse zone. And a single play changed the game. He may not have a meaningful assignment for the rest of the year. But in one moment as the 11th or 12th man he earned his scholarship for '12-'13.
Quote from: Ners on February 26, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
As you know I'm a huge Buzz fan, but his usage of Mayo this season is an area where I'm critical of Buzz. A player rarely plays well when on a short leash as you describe above - miss a shot, or have a 1 mental breakdown and get yanked - no player thrives in that kind of role...which is the way its been for Todd. Give him some good run and a little slack and his efficiency will go up. Period.
As for mental mistakes - Lockett has made some of the most idiotic mental mistakes of the year fouling 3 point shooters....Georgetown game...and after he got bailed out as kid missed one of the 3 free throws...when we go to the other end and miss our FT..and GTown player rebounds and flings it 85 feet...Lockett almost fouls the kid. There have been others..those two just the most egregious.
Also - It's looking pretty tight on our bet...Mayo and Vander are neck and neck for PPG per 40...could be trending my way. Regardless, I'm glad the bet is this close as it bodes well for the MU team.
Mayo made a series of mistakes / bad shots in the Seton Hall game and Buzz was right to take him out. In the second half of that game we really got on a roll and Blue and Lockett played key roles so there was no need to bring Mayo back. Last night Mayo was better than Lockett or Blue so he saw more action. It's easy to say in general that Mayo shouldn't be on such a short leash, but when the margin for error is so thin and you have great depth, you can't afford to leave in a guy that is struggling, especially a streaky scorer like Mayo.
I'm a Mayo guy. You can show me all the stats to tell me why I'm wrong, but he has "it." I would much rather have him pulling the trigger on jumpers vs. Vander (or Lockett). I think Mayo and Vander together are a perfect combo to excel at the Kentucky dribble drive. We sat behind the bench last night and both Mayo and Vander have competitive "issues" that can work for them or against them. Mayo was none to happy to see Thomas come off the bench. And Vander was no happy camper being subbed out for at the end of the game. Both gave the obligatory high fives, but you could tell they were pissed. On the other hand, Lockett was an all-around happy guy the whole time. I think this speaks to Lockett's maturity. He seems to be a good guy and a great teammate. Not to say Mayo and Vander are not, they are just different. Suffice it to say, neither lacks confidence.
I agree with Ners on the short leash thing with Mayo. If he had the opportunity to play through mistakes like Blue does, I think you would see the solution to this team. He needs to be on the floor. Obviously, there will be nights that he doesn't have it, but to me, he is the key to this team going anywhere in the post season.
Quote from: frozena pizza on February 26, 2013, 10:30:25 AM
Mayo made a series of mistakes / bad shots in the Seton Hall game and Buzz was right to take him out. In the second half of that game we really got on a roll and Blue and Lockett played key roles so there was no need to bring Mayo back. Last night Mayo was better than Lockett or Blue so he saw more action. It's easy to say in general that Mayo shouldn't be on such a short leash, but when the margin for error is so thin and you have great depth, you can't afford to leave in a guy that is struggling, especially a streaky scorer like Mayo.
This. Exactly.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on February 26, 2013, 10:39:16 AM
I agree with Ners on the short leash thing with Mayo. If he had the opportunity to play through mistakes like Blue does, I think you would see the solution to this team. He needs to be on the floor. Obviously, there will be nights that he doesn't have it, but to me, he is the key to this team going anywhere in the post season.
This is high level D1 hoops, and it's competitive. If you don't do what the coaches want (when you get in), you won't get a lot of minutes.
Vander played through some mistakes 2 years ago because there wasn't a lot of depth on that team.
With the current roster, that isn't really an option.
Todd, Juan, Taylor, Ferguson, etc. Will all have to earn their minutes in practice and with their performance in games. Buzz isn't going to hand them anything. The frosh. next year will be the same way... and people will probably bitch about that too! "Duane Wilson has "it". Play him more!"
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on February 26, 2013, 10:39:16 AM
I agree with Ners on the short leash thing with Mayo. If he had the opportunity to play through mistakes like Blue does, I think you would see the solution to this team. He needs to be on the floor. Obviously, there will be nights that he doesn't have it, but to me, he is the key to this team going anywhere in the post season.
On the other hand, Buzz's approach to Mayo has us sitting at 11-4 in the BE with a realistic shot of winning it in a year when the 'talent' level said we should finish 7th.
I don't think this team needs a "solution." It's not as if they're underperforming.
I Like Lockett more then most, But the ability to take a good shot and make a tough shot Mayo is clearly better. Lockett had a (by Cuse Standards) a wide open 22 footer from top of the key and passed it up in the 1/2 court with 10-15 seconds on the shot clock. We ended up with a much harder shot 10 seconds later. Mayo would have turned and pulled the trigger.
Quote from: MUSF on February 26, 2013, 07:32:32 AM
Look, If you want to compare military fitness to elite basketball fitness, fine. I think it's not a valid comparison, but go ahead and make it. That said, don't pretend that your original response was a simple comparison of fitness, endurance, and stamina between the two. There was a fair amount of chest beating in there.
The problem I have with this is two fold. One, it takes away from the conversation because very few posters will want to disagree or counter your point because they don't want to seem disrespectful of your service. Two, telling unsolicited war stories to strangers on a message board comes across as self-promoting and exposes people to information they don't really need.
Where I come from we pride ourselves on being quiet professionals. It's called SELFLESS service. You and the SEALS should keep this in mind.
Now, in the interest of good MU BBALL discourse, I will disengage from this.
And to suggest that a kid playing Div I basketball is spent from playing just 48 hours before is rubbish. Anyone who advances that theory is someone who has welded himself to his La Z Boy, who views running to the Fridge to grab another PBR constitutes a work out, and who tells people that he wears sweats as part of his wardrobe because they are comfortable.
As for selflessness, please tell me when was the last time you did anything for others which involved true sacrifice? And by that I don't mean throwing an extra $20 in the basket at church or ladling slop once a month at the food kitchen. Fact is you likely have not and until you do you have zero credible say in that conversation. I am always amused by those who have not who insist on telling those who have how they should behave. You don't like SEALs writing books or telling war stories? How about going to McP's and saying that to their face? You may know a combat controller or read an article in Esquire about one but I doubt you yourself have ever done anything like that. I know the STS guys at McChord AFB. We drink with them at the Ram in Lakewood. And we talk about our jobs. When you join an ASOS every guy throws $500 into the blood bar fund. When a guy doesn't come back we gather in a pub, put his picture on the bar, and drink in his honor. You may see yourself as a selfless professional but I won't tell you how to sell insurance or run the Piggly Wiggly if you won't tell me how we should behave.
Tell you what, I am heading down to Napa in a couple weeks. I plan to spend a few nights in SF - if that is where you live I will gladly buy you a beer or three. I stay at the Nikko so we can meet at the bar down stairs . I look forward to meeting you and hearing your views on selflessness, professionalism, and physical fitness.
Quote from: akmarq on February 26, 2013, 11:15:42 AM
On the other hand, Buzz's approach to Mayo has us sitting at 11-4 in the BE with a realistic shot of winning it in a year when the 'talent' level said we should finish 7th.
I don't think this team needs a "solution." It's not as if they're underperforming.
I think Buzz is a great coach and the ball really bounced our way early in the BE. To be where we are at is incredible. My bigger point is, if Mayo turns it on at the end of the season, this team could go very, very far. I'm talking FF, or beyond. A hot Mayo is exactly what this team needs to go far into the tourney. Without him, we could get to the Sweet Sixteen, but we are a zone away from losing to anyone. We just don't have the shooters. With Mayo healthy and happy, I think we could go even further.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on February 26, 2013, 12:18:16 PM
I think Buzz is a great coach and the ball really bounced our way early in the BE. To be where we are at is incredible. My bigger point is, if Mayo turns it on at the end of the season, this team could go very, very far. I'm talking FF, or beyond. A hot Mayo is exactly what this team needs to go far into the tourney. Without him, we could get to the Sweet Sixteen, but we are a zone away from losing to anyone. We just don't have the shooters. With Mayo healthy and happy, I think we could go even further.
I agree on a productive Mayo being a huge factor in our favor if we are going to make a run. I just think that responsibility needs to fall on Todd to play more consistantly rather than Buzz to run him out there more. Todd's lack of minutes (real or perceived) are a Todd problem, not a Buzz problem.
Quote from: akmarq on February 26, 2013, 12:36:04 PM
I agree on a productive Mayo being a huge factor in our favor if we are going to make a run. I just think that responsibility needs to fall on Todd to play more consistantly rather than Buzz to run him out there more. Todd's lack of minutes (real or perceived) are a Todd problem, not a Buzz problem.
Perfectly stated.
IF Todd gets more minutes, it won't be because Buzz suddenly decides Todd should play. It will be because Todd is effective and Buzz can't take him out.
If you ever listen to Buzz's post game, that is how he describes guys: "He was really good tonight, I just couldn't take him out."
Todd has been pretty solid since the game @USF. He struggled from @Cincy through @UL. However, since the @USF game, he's only been net negative one time (@SHU).
Quote from: Ners on February 26, 2013, 08:53:28 AM
As you know I'm a huge Buzz fan, but his usage of Mayo this season is an area where I'm critical of Buzz. A player rarely plays well when on a short leash as you describe above - miss a shot, or have a 1 mental breakdown and get yanked - no player thrives in that kind of role...which is the way its been for Todd. Give him some good run and a little slack and his efficiency will go up. Period.
There is no evidence to suggest this is the case. Todd is a scorer, but he has never been terribly efficient.
Be happy he contributed and got his chance...hopefully he can build from there. But don't make stuff up.
Quote from: keefe on February 26, 2013, 11:22:06 AM
And to suggest that a kid playing Div I basketball is spent from playing just 48 hours before is rubbish. Anyone who advances that theory is someone who has welded himself to his La Z Boy, who views running to the Fridge to grab another PBR constitutes a work out, and who tells people that he wears sweats as part of his wardrobe because they are comfortable.
As for selflessness, please tell me when was the last time you did anything for others which involved true sacrifice? And by that I don't mean throwing an extra $20 in the basket at church or ladling slop once a month at the food kitchen. Fact is you likely have not and until you do you have zero credible say in that conversation. I am always amused by those who have not who insist on telling those who have how they should behave. You don't like SEALs writing books or telling war stories? How about going to McP's and saying that to their face? You may know a combat controller or read an article in Esquire about one but I doubt you yourself have ever done anything like that. I know the STS guys at McChord AFB. We drink with them at the Ram in Lakewood. And we talk about our jobs. When you join an ASOS every guy throws $500 into the blood bar fund. When a guy doesn't come back we gather in a pub, put his picture on the bar, and drink in his honor. You may see yourself as a selfless professional but I won't tell you how to sell insurance or run the Piggly Wiggly if you won't tell me how we should behave.
Tell you what, I am heading down to Napa in a couple weeks. I plan to spend a few nights in SF - if that is where you live I will gladly buy you a beer or three. I stay at the Nikko so we can meet at the bar down stairs . I look forward to meeting you and hearing your views on selflessness, professionalism, and physical fitness.
You know what happens when you assume right. I ain't from San Francisco and I know a few personal things about service that I don't choose to share on a bball internet board. That's all I'll say.
Quote from: MUSF on February 26, 2013, 04:31:28 PM
You know what happens when you assume right. I ain't from San Francisco and I know a few personal things about service that I don't choose to share on a bball internet board. That's all I'll say.
So shoot me a PM.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 26, 2013, 01:46:38 PM
There is no evidence to suggest this is the case. Todd is a scorer, but he has never been terribly efficient.
Be happy he contributed and got his chance...hopefully he can build from there. But don't make stuff up.
Sure missed you while you were in time out...I'm surprised you offered this rebuttal as I recall you have played some ball in your life - maybe even high school level? Maybe you are in the minority, perhaps 2 out of 10 guys, who would say your efficiency and effectiveness wasn't impacted negatively if you knew you were a missed shot or two, or turnover away from getting benched within a couple of minutes. Playing on eggshells isn't a great way to play.....and it is particularly hard for a highly talented player, like Todd is, to play under that dynamic. As much slack as Vander was given his first 2 years....it would be nice to see what would happen if Todd were granted just half as much...
Quote from: Ners on February 26, 2013, 05:05:41 PM
As much slack as Vander was given his first 2 years....it would be nice to see what would happen if Todd were granted just half as much...
Totally different cases. You have to consider who is behind/ahead of Todd and who was behind/ahead of Vander at the time.
We all know that Buzz doesn't just throw the 5 best players out there, regardless of position. He is looking to use each of his players' skills in a special way. Todd may have more of talent X than Trent, but Buzz goes with Trent because he brings Y to the table.
Our offense is good this year. Let's trust the guy who built it and give him the benefit of the doubt on playing time.
You have no idea what the coaching relationship is between Buzz and Todd. And my high school basketball experience is irrelevant to that.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 26, 2013, 05:11:25 PM
You have no idea what the coaching relationship is between Buzz and Todd. And my high school basketball experience is irrelevant to that.
The coaching relationship between Buzz and Todd is pretty much on display every time we play - and for the most part, Todd has had a very short leash this season...shorter than last year...and i'd argue the guy in front of Todd last year (DJO) was much better than Lockett.
Now, I don't doubt Buzz has his reasons for how he is coaching Todd this year, but I'd like to see the quick hook strategy not be employed the rest of the season with regard to Todd - as "good" Todd can be the difference between this team being a Round of 32 and Elite 8/Final 4 caliber team.
Quote from: Ners on February 26, 2013, 05:49:49 PM
The coaching relationship between Buzz and Todd is pretty much on display every time we play - and for the most part, Todd has had a very short leash this season...shorter than last year...and i'd argue the guy in front of Todd last year (DJO) was much better than Lockett.
Now, I don't doubt Buzz has his reasons for how he is coaching Todd this year, but I'd like to see the quick hook strategy not be employed the rest of the season with regard to Todd - as "good" Todd can be the difference between this team being a Round of 32 and Elite 8/Final 4 caliber team.
Do you feel the same way about Gardner(last season), Taylor Jr., Otule and Juan (all this season)?
All 4 of those guys have played sporadic minutes and been subbed in and out often.
Buzz has a deep team and if (insert player) doesn't perform, Buzz will play somebody else. If Buzz doesn't like the match-up, he'll play somebody else.
I think you are twisting yourself into knots trying to explain Todd's performance (or lack there of on some occasions). This isn't that complicated. He's a soph. guard who is having some growing pains. Juan is a soph. forward who is going through the SAME THING. Some nights are good, some aren't so good.
We have no real evidence that more minutes would mean more efficiency. In fact, several players on MU's roster have proven to be very efficient in limited roles.
Mayo is getting plenty of minutes to get himself in rhythm. 15.4, which is seventh on the team. This is down from about 21 last year.
He is shooting at about the same percentage as last year - both from 3 and overall. Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that he is more than this when it comes to "efficiency" right now. Considering he missed half the year, and half the summer, that is probably all we can hope for right now. If he keeps his act together in the classroom, and works his ass off this summer, my guess is that he will grow like Blue has done this year.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 27, 2013, 07:09:43 AM
Mayo is getting plenty of minutes to get himself in rhythm. 15.4, which is seventh on the team. This is down from about 21 last year.
He is shooting at about the same percentage as last year - both from 3 and overall. Again, there is no evidence whatsoever that he is more than this when it comes to "efficiency" right now. Considering he missed half the year, and half the summer, that is probably all we can hope for right now. If he keeps his act together in the classroom, and works his ass off this summer, my guess is that he will grow like Blue has done this year.
When Mayo plays well next year, I'm going to shove it in your face, Mayo hater!
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 27, 2013, 07:11:29 AM
When Mayo plays well next year, I'm going to shove it in your face, Mayo hater!
Sultan's always been a Miracle Whip guy.
*rimshot