On a night with no offense whatsoever mainly due to Nova's defense why were Mayo and Blue never on the court together?? They are the teams to best scorers from the outside but when they are out their alone the team lacks the ability to score. Also a few more set plays in a game where the free flowing offense is not working seems like it should happen, but it never did.
Blue was nonexistent today...unfortunately.
Agree, they should have been on the court together. Would have eliminated the press...
How would putting mayo an blue eliminated the press when they both would dribble into the trap at the half court corners? In fact those, along with junior were the reason the trap was kept.
Vander with 7 + Gardner with 2 = LOSS
The problem for press/ full court trap is not the players. Its has to do with the fact that they have no press breakers in place it seems. Every press break consists of looking around, dribbling, and over the top lob passes.. All effective ways to make a full court press/trap look dang good.
Syracuse won't press us Monday because it isn't their style, but God help us if we face any kind of press in the tournament.
Where is Buzz's press break? i have about 6 different plays I could give him.
Also why don't we do a full court zone trap press instead of the ineffective man to man. I always think of Buzz as being such a prepared coach, but I don't see it in this phase of the game.
Quote from: westcoastwarrior on February 23, 2013, 07:23:52 PM
How would putting mayo an blue eliminated the press when they both would dribble into the trap at the half court corners? In fact those, along with junior were the reason the trap was kept.
Quite simply ist takes Junior out as he tries to split the double teams or tries to lob over. May does well in getting around a press.
Quote from: MU4life2 on February 23, 2013, 07:27:56 PM
The problem for press/ full court trap is not the players. Its has to do with the fact that they have no press breakers in place it seems. Every press break consists of looking around, dribbling, and over the top lob passes.. All effective ways to make a full court press/trap look dang good.
This.
I can't believe Buzz doesn't even experiment with this lineup. It's baffling honestly. Especially on a night when our "pg's" were so horrible
Quote from: MU4life2 on February 23, 2013, 07:27:56 PM
The problem for press/ full court trap is not the players. Its has to do with the fact that they have no press breakers in place it seems. Every press break consists of looking around, dribbling, and over the top lob passes.. All effective ways to make a full court press/trap look dang good.
+1. Press break inbound passess and inbound passes under our own basket are pathetic and unfortunately have improved very little this year.
I don't see how it would have helped. I don't think Mayo played particularly well today.
Quote from: avalanche on February 23, 2013, 07:35:09 PM
Where is Buzz's press break? i have about 6 different plays I could give him.
i've watched many college coaches work on breaking the press...you can't just run a press breaker like you would in high school. it's not like buzz can just run a 1-3-1 press breaker when nova comes out in a 2-3 3/4 court. it's like saying anyone that loses to cuse doesn't know how to run a 1-3-1.
in my opinion, we've watched mu struggle all year long with not being a smart team...that shows up in turnovers, attacking zone's, dealing with teams that throw multiple defenses at them, poor fouls, stupid decisions at the end of games, etc.
Quote from: avid1010 on February 24, 2013, 10:09:23 AM
i've watched many college coaches work on breaking the press...you can't just run a press breaker like you would in high school. it's not like buzz can just run a 1-3-1 press breaker when nova comes out in a 2-3 3/4 court. it's like saying anyone that loses to cuse doesn't know how to run a 1-3-1.
That's all well and good... but there has to be something better than lobbed cross court passes, and dribbling into two defenders (with the sideline as a third).
There may not be a set press break, but I'd definitely start with quicker ball movement. The lobs allow the trap to move and get set.
Quote from: avid1010 on February 24, 2013, 10:09:23 AM
i've watched many college coaches work on breaking the press...you can't just run a press breaker like you would in high school. it's not like buzz can just run a 1-3-1 press breaker when nova comes out in a 2-3 3/4 court. it's like saying anyone that loses to cuse doesn't know how to run a 1-3-1.
in my opinion, we've watched mu struggle all year long with not being a smart team...that shows up in turnovers, attacking zone's, dealing with teams that throw multiple defenses at them, poor fouls, stupid decisions at the end of games, etc.
I don't think its that we're not smart.
I think the problem is that we rely too much on our own quickness.
One could easliy see the assumption that "we're so quick, nobody would dare press us". When somebody does, we're flummoxed.
We see that in overall gameplan as well. One can see an assumption that "we're so quick we can always just score in transition". Hence, we struggle when an opposing team can force us into a half-court game.
Just for kicks and giggles....why not put dwilson and Jr on the floor to break the press. Presumably our two best ball handlers.
Anyone remember doc breaking the press singlehandedly?
Quote from: real chili 83 on February 24, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Just for kicks and giggles....why not put dwilson and Jr on the floor to break the press. Presumably our two best ball handlers.
Anyone remember doc breaking the press singlehandedly?
I remember Tony Miller breaking it single handedly, but he's a better PG than Junior.
Quote from: real chili 83 on February 24, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Just for kicks and giggles....why not put dwilson and Jr on the floor to break the press. Presumably our two best ball handlers.
Anyone remember doc breaking the press singlehandedly?
What I don't understand is Buzz himself stated that Jamil is our best option for pressing and breaking a press and yet he only played 19 minutes. Added, Wilson seemed to be in the frontcourt when we were pressed.
Maybe it slipped my mind... was he in foul trouble at some point?
Quote from: real chili 83 on February 24, 2013, 10:54:20 AM
Just for kicks and giggles....why not put dwilson and Jr on the floor to break the press. Presumably our two best ball handlers.
Because you take too much offense off the court.
Junior holds the whole team back with his high dribble and slow motion mode. We need Blue and Mayo in the game more; but, the key is to return to Marquette's fast pace attacking offense. Sad to say, but, Cadugan should see limited action hereafter. He's the problem period.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 24, 2013, 11:42:14 AM
Junior holds the whole team back with his high dribble and slow motion mode. We need Blue and Mayo in the game more; but, the key is to return to Marquette's fast pace attacking offense. Sad to say, but, Cadugan should see limited action hereafter. He's the problem period.
He has faults but who do you want playing point for 25+ minutes a game? Blue? Then that takes away from his offense. D Wilson... teams will not respect his shooting. Cadougan is still our best, if imperfect, option.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 24, 2013, 10:17:49 AM
That's all well and good... but there has to be something better than lobbed cross court passes, and dribbling into two defenders (with the sideline as a third).
There may not be a set press break, but I'd definitely start with quicker ball movement. The lobs allow the trap to move and get set.
there wasn't anywhere to move the ball to because mu wasn't getting the ball into the correct spaces on the floor. it's not like any d1 college player or coach is thinking to break the press with lob passes and slow ball movement. the type of zone nova played yesterday is broken off the dribble, not the pass...junior couldn't do it, and everyone knows this, which is why nova was in that zone. to nova's credit, they were pretty good with it.
Quote from: TJ on February 23, 2013, 08:56:22 PM
I don't see how it would have helped.
I don't see how it would have hurt.
I'm not one who thinks a Mayo/Blue combo solves all the problems. And it might have fared horribly against Nova. But I don't see why it wouldn't have been worth a try for a couple minutes. I mean, Buzz did finally try Gardner/Otule after 2+ years of pooh-poohing it. That hasn't been great guns, either, but, again, it was worth a try.
I'm as frustrated as anyone with Junior at point guard, but honestly I can't see how Blue would be a good option right now. He doesn't have the greatest handle either. And I don't think Mayo nor Blue have the mentality for the position. Maybe try it out for a bit to see how it goes, but I would be surprised if it works any better.
And I would stop the DG/CO bit too. Nothing like slowing down even more a team that lacks foot-speed. And DG at the high post isn't doing anything for me on offense. I would rather see more of Steve Taylor.
Quote from: MU82 on February 24, 2013, 05:29:07 PM
I don't see how it would have hurt.
I'm not one who thinks a Mayo/Blue combo solves all the problems. And it might have fared horribly against Nova. But I don't see why it wouldn't have been worth a try for a couple minutes. I mean, Buzz did finally try Gardner/Otule after 2+ years of pooh-poohing it. That hasn't been great guns, either, but, again, it was worth a try.
I'm not saying don't try it. I'm saying that I thought Mayo played poorly on Saturday, so more minutes of him out there with Blue wouldn't have helped. Obviously I could be wrong. I did think there were long stretches of puzzling lineups on the floor - Otule, Wilson, and Taylor at the same time during a scoring drought for one.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 25, 2013, 10:28:04 AM
I'm as frustrated as anyone with Junior at point guard, but honestly I can't see how Blue would be a good option right now. He doesn't have the greatest handle either. And I don't think Mayo nor Blue have the mentality for the position. Maybe try it out for a bit to see how it goes, but I would be surprised if it works any better.
I think this is ultimately the question: Do you try it out? You've done pretty well so far and it's risky to try something new, but at the same time is it right to accept the the questionable play by your starting PG?
I think screwing with Blue right now is a bad idea, I'd rather give it a shot with Mayo and at the same time, give a few more minutes to D. Wilson.
Vander with the ball in open court makes things happen.. I would say even if you do not want him full time PG we are better in transition with the ball in his hands. He can speed up the game. Worst case is I would use him as outlet pass off D rebound when possible. Always can go more traditional in half court if nothing materializes.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 25, 2013, 10:28:04 AM
And I would stop the DG/CO bit too. Nothing like slowing down even more a team that lacks foot-speed. And DG at the high post isn't doing anything for me on offense. I would rather see more of Steve Taylor.
I don't think I have ever been proven more wrong, with more force, than in this post!!
We can now officially stop the Vander to the NBA stuff...reality is reality. The good news is that we will have him for his senior year, where he belongs.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 25, 2013, 08:26:44 PM
I don't think I have ever been proven more wrong, with more force, than in this post!!
Well Sultan...at least you can admit it...time to enjoy this win before we lay a beat down on ND...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 25, 2013, 08:26:44 PM
I don't think I have ever been proven more wrong, with more force, than in this post!!
Aw come on, Sultan. You've been more wrong plenty of times!!
(That's a joke, son.)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 25, 2013, 08:31:18 PM
We can now officially stop the Vander to the NBA stuff...reality is reality. The good news is that we will have him for his senior year, where he belongs.
If you go back and read closely, nobody other than Goose and his source actually think Vander is leaving.
A lot of people commented on his prospect status, but nobody really said "he is going".
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 24, 2013, 12:05:48 PM
He has faults but who do you want playing point for 25+ minutes a game? Blue? Then that takes away from his offense. D Wilson... teams will not respect his shooting. Cadougan is still our best, if imperfect, option.
My thoughts exactly
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 25, 2013, 09:43:06 PM
If you go back and read closely, nobody other than Goose and his source actually think Vander is leaving.
A lot of people commented on his prospect status, but nobody really said "he is going".
It's not so much about whether they think he is going, it's the number of people who think he is ready to go. He isn't.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 25, 2013, 08:31:18 PM
We can now officially stop the Vander to the NBA stuff...reality is reality. The good news is that we will have him for his senior year, where he belongs.
IMO, the talk of VB to the NBA was a joke and nothing more than blue and gold kool aid. Here is to hoping Vander finishes strong this year, works hard on his three over the summer, and comes back and to dominate the BE his senior year. He is a stud and has been having a great year, but he is nowhere near the NBA.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 25, 2013, 09:52:53 PM
It's not so much about whether they think he is going, it's the number of people who think he is ready to go. He isn't.
I'd like to join Chicos out on his limb and predict that Juan Anderson will not bolt for the NBA after this season.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 25, 2013, 09:52:53 PM
It's not so much about whether they think he is going, it's the number of people who think he is ready to go. He isn't.
It isn't whether he's ready to play nightly in the NBA, it's whether he's ready to start learning at that level. If a team thinks he has NBA upside, he would have a shot, especially if someone believed he could play the point. Whether we see it or not, Vander has the size and athleticism to play the point in the NBA. He doesn't have the handle yet but considering how he improved his shot there's no reason to believe his game couldn't further improve. Blue's age also plays in his favor. He's still only 20 years old and will be 10 days past his 21st birthday on draft night. That's the age of the average sophomore, it's possible someone would take a shot.
I'm not saying he should go, but with a weak draft class this year and a strong one next year, it wouldn't be crazy to see him going, even if he had a couple off nights.
But brew, you do realize that no NBA team is going to draft him unless he goes wild in the BE and NCAA tourneys, right? I'm not saying mock drafts are gospel, but when not a single one even has him as a late second-rounder, it means something.
The only way he leaves is if he gets some godawful advice.
Quote from: MURFC on February 25, 2013, 09:59:32 PM
IMO, the talk of VB to the NBA was a joke and nothing more than blue and gold kool aid. Here is to hoping Vander finishes strong this year, works hard on his three over the summer, and comes back and to dominate the BE his senior year. He is a stud and has been having a great year, but he is nowhere near the NBA.
I don't think some of these folks were joking, they just view things through a lens very narrow without realizing there is a continent called Europe with NBA prospects, or many other kids here in the states that are just as good or better. Just my opinion. Fans tend to overvalue their guys too much.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2013, 07:18:03 PM
I don't think some of these folks were joking, they just view things through a lens very narrow without realizing there is a continent called Europe with NBA prospects, or many other kids here in the states that are just as good or better. Just my opinion. Fans tend to overvalue their guys too much.
Nobody said he WOULD DEFINITELY leave, besides
maybe Goose. That's your problem in arguments. You take polar positions yourself (ex. there is NO WAY Vander is leaving), then paint "the other side" as your polar opposite. Now every time he has an off game you can't wait to come on here and say VANDER IS DEFINITELY NOT AN NBA PLAYER. Annoying.
For the most part people gave reasons why he COULD potentially leave (ex. demonstrated continued shooting improvement from midrange, demonstrated ability to finish in traffic, elite athleticism, being young for his grade which the NBA does value) and you act like they said he's for sure gone. Right now, for reasons stated above I think it's a 20% likelihood he leaves. Which means the odds are overwhelming that he comes back, but it's not definite. I think for him to leave he would have to be a guaranteed 1st round pick or guaranteed by a GM that he would be picked in the 2nd round (like Boobie Gibson). The odds of that happening increase to about 40-50% in my opinion the further we go in the tournament on the back of him having big games. Anything past the S16 with him as a major impact player, and we sweat it out as he goes through the draft process waiting for him to remove his name. Anything short of that, and we're relatively safe that he comes back even better for a ridiculous run next year. Either scenario I'm happy with and the latter is far more likely though not guaranteed.
I keep seeing the Subject title of this thread and think it's some special Marquette sandwich topping.