The Zags are an elite program. We need them. We are already bringing questionable teams like DePaul and Seton Hall we can't expect Daytons and Richmonds to bring us up to where we need to be. If people from those schools read this, don't misunderstand me, your schools could compete with most of our conference and wouldn't bring us down, but that's not enough. We need to bring in a school that lifts everyone else up, that is BETTER than most of our conference.
The Zags are a unique opportunity to do that. Here's my proposal, which I mentioned on another thread: because of their distance, give them an extra $1,000,000 a year as a compensation for travel from the TV deal. No one will miss it, we're going to get a huge increase from our current deal and it can be split 11 ways. We are talking less than $100,000 per year per team given up. How would the Zags be able to say no to that (~$4 mil a year), compared to what they are currently getting in the WCC?
What about the compensation for MU's travels to Spokane? What about 10 PM EST starts?
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2013, 09:10:20 AM
What about the compensation for MU's travels to Spokane? What about 10 PM EST starts?
We'd have 1 of those a year. Worth it.
Would you rather have a 10 pm start against a top 10 team or a 7 pm start against Dayton?
Easy choice.
MU is lobbying for Creighton and can't get the east coast teams to buy in because Creighton is too far west. If this is true, Gonzaga to the new conference is DOA. And BTW, I am a Dayton fan. Sister and B-I-L went there and I have fond memories of there, along with MU's history with Dayton in the 60's, 70's and 80's. So give me the 7 PM start in Dayton.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
And BTW, I am a Dayton fan. Sister and B-I-L went there and I have fond memories of there, along with MU's history with Dayton in the 60's, 70's and 80's. So give me the 7 PM start in Dayton.
That's nice and everything. But the selection committee isn't going to consider that.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2013, 09:10:20 AM
What about the compensation for MU's travels to Spokane? What about 10 PM EST starts?
My feeling was you have 2 divisions with 6 teams. Gonzaga goes in West Division with MU. You play each team in your division 2 times (totals 10 games), then you play 4 games outside your division Home, and 4 away. Limits travel. Those 4 Away games for the Eastern teams at Gonzaga - you aim to play on the weekends - no arena scheduling conflicts for the Zags...so they could host Saturday or Sunday games at any time they want...
Regarding travel - it's really only 1 trip per year to Spokane for MU's teams - not all that different than going to a South Florida currently.
To me it is very doable, and the value the Zags bring in basketball...for a basketball-centric league....it's a no brainer. You figure it out and get it done.
I really believe you guys are dreaming.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:11:45 AM
We'd have 1 of those a year. Worth it.
Would you rather have a 10 pm start against a top 10 team or a 7 pm start against Dayton?
Easy choice.
It is 6 hours to Spokane to NYC/Philly/Providence. That a long flight but at least the basketball team flies private and in directly.
To send the soccer team (which number 30 to 40 people when players, coaches, trainers and others are considered) one-way to Spokane on a charter is more than 50k. 100k round trip. I doubt the school spends this much on the entire program (not including scholarships).
Non-revenue sports take a bus to Chicago Midway and fly Southwest or some other discount airline to Spokane. It long, hard, luggage gets lost, flights get delay, you know the drill. IT affects their performance on the field.
The ONLY way this could even be a discussion is if Gonzaga's non-revenue sports stay in the WCC and basketball is the only sport in the C7. The WCC will never go for that.
Similarly I'll bet the push back against Creighton is not basketball. It's St. Johns, PC and Seton Hall thinking about the money, time and hassle involved in sending non-revenue sports to Omaha.
Quote from: Ners on February 22, 2013, 09:21:37 AM
My feeling was you have 2 divisions with 6 teams. Gonzaga goes in West Division with MU. You play each team in your division 2 times (totals 10 games), then you play 4 games outside your division Home, and 4 away. Limits travel. Those 4 Away games for the Eastern teams at Gonzaga - you aim to play on the weekends - no arena scheduling conflicts for the Zags...so they could host Saturday or Sunday games at any time they want...
Regarding travel - it's really only 1 trip per year to Spokane for MU's teams - not all that different than going to a South Florida currently.
To me it is very doable, and the value the Zags bring in basketball...for a basketball-centric league....it's a no brainer. You figure it out and get it done.
Great, we play Gonzaga, Creighton (which will not be this good every year) St. Louis, Depaul and Butler from the west twice. We only play the eastern teams once.
MID-MAJOR!! Let's just joint the A-10.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2013, 09:10:20 AM
What about the compensation for MU's travels to Spokane? What about 10 PM EST starts?
Personally, I think the marginal travel time & cost of going to Spokane vs. Providence is being over-hyped. It will suck for Providence to have to go x-country, but perhaps that's reason to go to 14 teams and have two divisions so the eastern seaboard teams don't have to go to Gonzaga (and vice versa) every single year.
And as far as start times, stipulate no weeknight games in Spokane start later than 6:00p PT, and make all efforts to schedule eastern teams on the weekends.
I'm sure Gonzaga wants in the C7 so I think there would be some leverage the C7 has in negotiating terms of their membership. They don't need to rake the Zags over the coals, but at least try to make things reasonably convenient for the 13 teams that aren't on the west coast.
Quote from: tower912 on February 22, 2013, 09:18:08 AM
MU is lobbying for Creighton and can't get the east coast teams to buy in because Creighton is too far west. If this is true, Gonzaga to the new conference is DOA.
Agreed. But then again, it might not be entirely true. Perhaps MU and a couple others are indeed lobbying for Creighton, but are also lobbying for 12 teams and Gonzaga, too - while the easties agree on Creighton but are lobbying for only 10 teams, perhaps they're amenable to 12 teams on the condition that Richmond is also included. It may not be a mutually exclusive proposition for Creighton and Richmond... and Gonzaga may still be in the mix. Who knows?
Frankly, speculating and handicapping the Invite 3/5/7 is more fun than filling out tourney brackets.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:34:36 AM
Great, we play Gonzaga, Creighton (which will not be this good every year) St. Louis, Depaul and Dayton from the west twice. We only play the eastern teams once.
MID-MAJOR!! Let's just joint the A-10.
If you're going to assume that Creighton won't always be this good, you also have to assume that DePaul and Dayton may not always be this bad.
Quote from: Benny B on February 22, 2013, 09:37:35 AM
If you're going to assume that Creighton won't always be this good, you also have to assume that DePaul and Dayton may not always be this bad.
We will be lost to the eastern media in this division. MID-MAJOR!
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:34:36 AM
Great, we play Gonzaga, Creighton (which will not be this good every year) St. Louis, Depaul and Butler from the west twice. We only play the eastern teams once.
MID-MAJOR!! Let's just joint the A-10.
#3 in the country (zags), #15 in the country (Butler), #17 in the country (us) #26 in the country (SLU), oh yeah, and another unranked team that will make the tournament (Creighton) IN ONE DIVISION
In what world is that mid-major? Try again.
Quote from: Ners on February 22, 2013, 09:21:37 AM
My feeling was you have 2 divisions with 6 teams. Gonzaga goes in West Division with MU. You play each team in your division 2 times (totals 10 games), then you play 4 games outside your division Home, and 4 away. Limits travel. Those 4 Away games for the Eastern teams at Gonzaga - you aim to play on the weekends - no arena scheduling conflicts for the Zags...so they could host Saturday or Sunday games at any time they want...
Regarding travel - it's really only 1 trip per year to Spokane for MU's teams - not all that different than going to a South Florida currently.
To me it is very doable, and the value the Zags bring in basketball...for a basketball-centric league....it's a no brainer. You figure it out and get it done.
When Gonzaga is brought up to join the league, it is always referenced from an MU perspective. Question, are the Zags even interested in joining?
If you're MU or another C-7 team, one trip out to Spokane is no big deal. But, for Mark Few and his team, do you really want to play 9 road games that are either semi-across the country or coast-to-coast. I'm not sure, especially since Gonzaga has been able to build and sustain a model of success that frankly is unparalleled for any non-BCS conference school.
Quote from: RJax55 on February 22, 2013, 09:45:10 AM
When Gonzaga is brought up to join the league, it is always referenced from an MU perspective. Question, are the Zags even interested in joining?
If you're MU or another C-7 team, one trip out to Spokane is no big deal. But, for Mark Few and his team, do you really want to play 9 road games that are either semi-across the country or coast-to-coast. I'm not sure, especially since Gonzaga has been able to build and sustain a model of success that frankly is unparalleled for any non-BCS conference school.
Read my first post. For $4 million a year, I think they would. Anyone know what their current WCC deal is worth?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:34:36 AM
Great, we play Gonzaga, Creighton (which will not be this good every year) St. Louis, Depaul and Butler from the west twice. We only play the eastern teams once.
MID-MAJOR!! Let's just joint the A-10.
While I see your point, I don't see a sked that features two games a year against St. Louis, Creighton and DePaul as any less attractive than one with Providence, Seton Hall and Richmond twice a year. In fact, I'd prefer it.
I'd prefer not to see divisions, but a six-team division of MU, DePaul, Creighton, Gonzaga, Butler and St. Louis isn't all that bad. It wouldn't be significantly better or worse than one with Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier and Richmond.
MU/Gonzaga are on par with Georgetown and Nova.
Butler/Creighton > Xavier and St. John's.
DePaul/St. Louis equal to Providence and Seton Hall.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:44:14 AM
#3 in the country (zags), #15 in the country (Butler), #17 in the country (us) #26 in the country (SLU), oh yeah, and another unranked team that will make the tournament (Creighton) IN ONE DIVISION
In what world is that mid-major? Try again.
Tell me what their 2015 ranking will be? Based on their history, worse than this year.
Depaul, Butler and MU will be good ... Creighton will be a marginal NCAA team and Depaul and St. Louis will be NIT teams.
Again, why is this better than leaving the C7 and joining the A-10?
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2013, 09:47:03 AM
While I see your point, I don't see a sked that features two games a year against St. Louis, Creighton and DePaul as any less attractive than one with Providence, Seton Hall and Richmond twice a year. In fact, I'd prefer it.
I'd prefer not to see divisions, but a six-team division of MU, DePaul, Creighton, Gonzaga, Butler and St. Louis isn't all that bad. It wouldn't be significantly better or worse than one with Georgetown, Nova, Seton Hall, Providence, Xavier and Richmond.
MU/Gonzaga are on par with Georgetown and Nova.
Butler/Creighton at least equal to Xavier and Richmond.
DePaul/St. Louis equal to Providence and Seton Hall.
Actually....
Gonzaga > Georgetown
MU > Nova
Butler > Xavier
Creighton > Richmond
St. Louis > Providence
DePaul = Seton Hall
This is better in almost every regard.
And AGAIN, what do you do with Gonzaga's other 16 sports? Are we now going to invite them as well? Throwing massive dollars down a rat hole. If you invite them for basketball only, what conference would take Gonzaga's horrible other sports teams and why would they do it? Finally, why would Gonzaga do this to their team, to their fan base, etc? Playing half their games at 2 or 3 time zones away. Massive travel on the student athletes, definitely a hit to their record, etc.
Hell, the way they have it setup right now, they may back into a number 1 seed (as ridiculous as that is) with their current setup.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:49:03 AM
Tell what their 2015 ranking will be? Based on their history, worse than this year.
Depaul, Butler and MU will be good ... Creighton will be a marginal NCAA team and Depaul and St. Louis will be NIT teams.
Again, why is this better than leaving the C7 and joining the A-10?
Because we aren't playing Duquesne. Try again dude.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:30:43 AM
It is 6 hours to Spokane to NYC/Philly/Providence. That a long flight but at least the basketball team flies private and in directly.
To send the soccer team (which number 30 to 40 people when players, coaches, trainers and others are considered) one-way to Spokane on a charter is more than 50k. 100k round trip. I doubt the school spends this much on the entire program (not including scholarships).
Non-revenue sports take a bus to Chicago Midway and fly Southwest or some other discount airline to Spokane. It long, hard, luggage gets lost, flights get delay, you know the drill. IT affects their performance on the field.
The ONLY way this could even be a discussion is if Gonzaga's non-revenue sports stay in the WCC and basketball is the only sport in the C7. The WCC will never go for that.
Similarly I'll bet the push back against Creighton is not basketball. It's St. Johns, PC and Seton Hall thinking about the money, time and hassle involved in sending non-revenue sports to Omaha.
Milwaukee has joined the 90's. Southwest now flies outta here.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:50:27 AM
Because we aren't playing Duquense. Try again dude.
Now, we play DePaul twice ... same thing
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:51:32 AM
Now, we play DePaul twice ... same thing
THATS ALREADY HAPPENING. This is why we need Gonzaga.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 22, 2013, 09:51:16 AM
Milwaukee has joined the 90's. Southwest now flies outta here.
No direct flights Milw to Spokane ... 8 hours of flying to get their (not counting delays)
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:07:53 AM
The Zags are an elite program. We need them.
The Zags are not an elite program. They have never been to a Final Four, and have been to five Sweet 16s. They are a good program no doubt...but "elite?" If that's the case I would love to hear the adjective you use to describe Marquette - much less schools like Duke.
And while it would be nice to work things out with them, we certainly don't "need" them.
You are over stating their value.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:46:28 AM
Read my first post. For $4 million a year, I think they would. Anyone know what their current WCC deal is worth?
This. Let's not forget why were in this position. CREAM.
Maybe keefe will volunteer to fly the team pro bono in a DC-3.
We all realize the only reason this came up now is they are #3 this week. And the unstated assumption is they will be #3 every week forever. So, we are torturing reason to figure out how to get a top 5 team in our conference, even to the point that we will reduce our games against eastern teams, which is suicidal.
If they were "other receiving votes" this week, no one would give them a second thought.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:51:32 AM
Now, we play DePaul twice ... same thing
Now you're just being silly.
DePaul, for all their faults, is the top team in the #3 market in the country. They averaged more than 7,700 fans per game last year, have a strong tradition and brand recognition.
Duquesne is the second team in the #23 market. They average 3,200 fans per game and have no tradition or brand recognition.
But yeah, same thing.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:58:48 AM
We all realize the only reason this came up now is they are #3 this week.
Right. And my guess is that even if they end up with a #1 seed, they will get "upset" sometime before the Final Four.
According to this Marquette has the sixth highest strength of schedule, and top outside of the Big Ten. Gonzaga is #54, right ahead of Wyoming.
http://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team
All this 'Mid-Major' crap is also forgetting that WE HAD NO BETTER OPTIONS.
No one thinks this is Big East 2.0 but we weren't going to get a better deal from realignment than the C7. Complaining about the quality of the teams in the C7 is just masturbatory gloom and doom.
Argue for the marginal merits of one addition or another, but don't just whine about the existence of the new conference and it not being as good as the Big East.
Gonzaga isn't happening. They have a great program and I'd love for us to look at a home-and-home or maybe a neutral court series, one in Seattle and one in Chicago, but they won't be part of this league. There's a reason their name hasn't come up for the past couple months. Accept that there will be no Gonzaga and look at the best remaining options. It's just the reality of the situation.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 22, 2013, 10:11:51 AM
Gonzaga isn't happening. They have a great program and I'd love for us to look at a home-and-home or maybe a neutral court series, one in Seattle and one in Chicago, but they won't be part of this league. There's a reason their name hasn't come up for the past couple months. Accept that there will be no Gonzaga and look at the best remaining options. It's just the reality of the situation.
Oh sure, that's just like you, going with common sense and facts and stuff.
Reality? Come on! That's not what fan boards are for!!!
Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2013, 10:16:48 AM
Oh sure, that's just like you, going with common sense and facts and stuff.
Reality? Come on! That's not what fan boards are for!!!
I would take common sense and reality over the stupidity that makes its way onto this board any day...
Quote from: akmarq on February 22, 2013, 10:03:36 AM
All this 'Mid-Major' crap is also forgetting that WE HAD NO BETTER OPTIONS.
No one thinks this is Big East 2.0 but we weren't going to get a better deal from realignment than the C7. Complaining about the quality of the teams in the C7 is just masturbatory gloom and doom.
Argue for the marginal merits of one addition or another, but don't just whine about the existence of the new conference and it not being as good as the Big East.
+1
Quote from: MU82 on February 22, 2013, 10:16:48 AM
Oh sure, that's just like you, going with common sense and facts and stuff.
Reality? Come on! That's not what fan boards are for!!!
Sorry :-[
Let's send Duke an invite and suggest they torpedo their football program :)
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:58:48 AM
We all realize the only reason this came up now is they are #3 this week. And the unstated assumption is they will be #3 every week forever. So, we are torturing reason to figure out how to get a top 5 team in our conference, even to the point that we will reduce our games against eastern teams, which is suicidal.
If they were "other receiving votes" this week, no one would give them a second thought.
Actually, I was looking at their 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances.
We don't need Gonzaga in our conference. Membership will be what is best for all schools in the conference which means a balance of long term stability and money. They will pick the best schools in the East/Midwest that will help generate the most revenue, minimize expenses, fits the academic integrity of all schools involved and doesn't plan on leaving for a long, long time.
Our non-conference schedule going forward will make up for any short-comings our league might have. Why have Gonzaga in the conference if you can schedule a non-conference game with them and if not Gonzaga, Louisville, ND, Syracuse, Memphis, etc. The weaker the conference, the stronger the non-conference schedule. Gonzaga seems to do it every year and look at them, top 3 in the country this year.
Quote from: akmarq on February 22, 2013, 10:03:36 AM
All this 'Mid-Major' crap is also forgetting that WE HAD NO BETTER OPTIONS.
No one thinks this is Big East 2.0 but we weren't going to get a better deal from realignment than the C7. Complaining about the quality of the teams in the C7 is just masturbatory gloom and doom.
Argue for the marginal merits of one addition or another, but don't just whine about the existence of the new conference and it not being as good as the Big East.
The issue is not inviting Gonzaga ... everyone would love to have them. The issue is whether we would be willing to split the C7 into an east and west division to accommodate them. I'm arguing that if we get put in a west division that further waters down the C7 making our division a mid-major.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:49:21 AM
Actually....
Gonzaga > Georgetown
MU > Nova
Butler > Xavier
Creighton > Richmond
St. Louis > Providence
DePaul = Seton Hall
This is better in almost every regard.
The perfect message board response, take what happen this week and assume that will be the status quo forever. So what will this look like in two years (remember the C7 does not even start for two years). Well let's look back two years ago. Week 17 2011 ...
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2011/week/17/seasontype/2
EASTSt. John = #15
GU = #17
Nova = #19
X = #23
SH = no votes
PC = no votes
WESTButler = other receiving votes (3)
MU = no votes
Gonzaga = no votes
St. Louis = no votes
Creighton = no votes
DePaul = no votes
Would we have been as excited about splitting into a west division of the C7 if this was the voting this week? I would argue it would have been suicidal.
How do we know this will not be the voting pattern in two years? (except for MU, of course :))
How do we know the Mayans weren't just off by a year. Life is a crapshoot. There are no better deals out there.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 10:56:39 AM
The issue is whether we would be willing to split the C7 into an east and west division to accommodate them. I'm arguing that if we get put in a west division that further waters down the C7 making our division a mid-major.
To me, this is the whole argument for keeping the conference smaller--divisions end up creating imbalance. Keep it at 10, play a true round-robin, and you end up with a pretty nice schedule, with a mix of top schools to get marquee wins and a couple of bunnies in conference to pad the numbers.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 10:56:39 AM
The issue is not inviting Gonzaga ... everyone would love to have them. The issue is whether we would be willing to split the C7 into an east and west division to accommodate them. I'm arguing that if we get put in a west division that further waters down the C7 making our division a mid-major.
The perfect message board response, take what happen this week and assume that will be the status quo forever. So what will this look like in two years (remember the C7 does not even start for two years). Well let's look back two years ago. Week 17 2011 ...
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings/_/year/2011/week/17/seasontype/2
EAST
St. John = #15
GU = #17
Nova = #19
X = #23
SH = no votes
PC = no votes
WEST
Butler = other receiving votes (3)
MU = no votes
Gonzaga = no votes
St. Louis = no votes
Creighton = no votes
DePaul = no votes
Would we have been as excited about splitting into a west division of the C7 if this was the voting this week? I would argue it would have been suicidal.
How do we know this will not be the voting pattern in two years? (except for MU, of course :))
Dude, you just cherry picked a week that was incredibly good for the eastern teams and terrible for the western ones.
How is that representative of what has really happened over the past few years?
Is MU usually unranked? How often is St. Johns #15 in the country?
Look at tournament appearances over the past decade (2003 to present).
EAST = 25
WEST = 29
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 10:56:39 AM
The perfect message board response, take what happen this week and assume that will be the status quo forever. So what will this look like in two years (remember the C7 does not even start for two years). Well let's look back two years ago. Week 17 2011 ...
So it's acceptable for you to assume the status quo, but it's not ok for the rest of us to do the same. Got it.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 22, 2013, 09:56:41 AM
Maybe keefe will volunteer to fly the team pro bono in a DC-3.
Tail dragger. 200 kts. 20k'.
Could save time and money if teams parachute vs landing at field.
No Pro Bono. Islay Single Malt. And Cubans.
(http://www.combatreform.org/c47sreadytodropusparatroopers.jpg)
Marquette flying to Omaha
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 10:29:15 AM
Actually, I was looking at their 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances.
Badgers must be Elite then with their 14 straight.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:54:30 AM
No direct flights Milw to Spokane ... 8 hours of flying to get their (not counting delays)
Something tells me we would charter directly....now, if non basketball teams were involved because we had to take on their volleyball, tennis, golf, etc programs....nightmare travel. Probably through SLC
Quote today from sources
Sources said that the "three to five new members need not be Catholic schools." The sources added "geographical coherence" is expected. Schools joining the Catholic 7 will "have to agree to surrender their media rights to the conference for a significant number of years -- possibly the life of the league's first TV contract, whether that's five, seven or 10 years" (WASHINGTON POST, 2/22).
Quote from: MUMountin on February 22, 2013, 11:14:28 AM
To me, this is the whole argument for keeping the conference smaller--divisions end up creating imbalance. Keep it at 10, play a true round-robin, and you end up with a pretty nice schedule, with a mix of top schools to get marquee wins and a couple of bunnies in conference to pad the numbers.
+1
I'm trying to argue splitting into east and west, for the express purpose of getting Gonzaga, is a bad deal for MU. The better deal is to keep it a complete conference and play everyone equally.
C7 is a high D1 conference. Split into divisions and we could wind up with a mid-major division like two years ago showed.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 11:14:41 AM
Dude, you just cherry picked a week that was incredibly good for the eastern teams and terrible for the western ones.
How is that representative of what has really happened over the past few years?
Is MU usually unranked? How often is St. Johns #15 in the country?
Look at tournament appearances over the past decade (2003 to present).
EAST = 25
WEST = 29
VM is making my point here. Keep it together as this conference averaged 44*** bids since 2003 (10 years.) or an
average of 4.5/year for an 11 team conference. That is high D1 by any measure.
*** = the 54 listed above less the 10 bids Gonzaga = 44
Quote from: MUMountin on February 22, 2013, 11:14:28 AM
To me, this is the whole argument for keeping the conference smaller--divisions end up creating imbalance. Keep it at 10, play a true round-robin, and you end up with a pretty nice schedule, with a mix of top schools to get marquee wins and a couple of bunnies in conference to pad the numbers.
Or just do what the current Big East, ACC, SEC, Pac 12, and Big Ten do with 12+ teams and don't have divisions. Wouldn't even make a difference with Gonzaga. What, twice a year they get to fly to Indianapolis instead of Philadelphia and Milwaukee instead of DC? Not going to be what makes or breaks them wanting to join this conference. If anything being locked out from ever having potential home-and-homes with Georgetown and St. John's on their schedule would be a deterrent to them.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 22, 2013, 10:11:51 AM
Gonzaga isn't happening. They have a great program and I'd love for us to look at a home-and-home or maybe a neutral court series, one in Seattle and one in Chicago, but they won't be part of this league. There's a reason their name hasn't come up for the past couple months. Accept that there will be no Gonzaga and look at the best remaining options. It's just the reality of the situation.
Damn your realism! ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 11:40:58 AM
Something tells me we would charter directly....now, if non basketball teams were involved because we had to take on their volleyball, tennis, golf, etc programs....nightmare travel. Probably through SLC
Or they could just take a 90-minute or less bus ride to O'Hare.
The horror. The horror.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2013, 12:33:51 PM
Or they could just take a 90-minute or less bus ride to O'Hare.
The horror. The horror.
A latter day Bataan Death March...
(http://www.tragedyofbataan.com/march/dm2.png)
The Marquette Soccer Team en route O'Hare
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2013, 09:23:55 AM
I really believe you guys are dreaming.
You may say that I'm a dreamer... but I'm not the only one.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2013, 12:33:51 PM
Or they could just take a 90-minute or less bus ride to O'Hare.
The horror. The horror.
Yup. It would suck, but they could do that. Nothing better than flying several thousand miles, getting off a plane, waiting for luggage, then getting on a 90 minutes bus ride. They are young, they can handle it, but it is a drag.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 01:36:39 PM
Yup. It would suck, but they could do that. Nothing better than flying several thousand miles, getting off a plane, waiting for luggage, then getting on a 90 minutes bus ride. They are young, they can handle it, but it is a drag.
Meh .... if it's something you have to do frequently, it's a drag.
If it's something you have to do at most once a year, it's an adventure.
Though I ultimately agree that the Zags won't be a member, I think the benefits absolutely outweigh the negatives.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:49:21 AM
Actually....
Gonzaga > Georgetown
MU > Nova
Butler > Xavier
Creighton > Richmond
St. Louis > Providence
DePaul = Seton Hall
This is better in almost every regard.
This is a weird hypothetical threat that will never happen (i.e., All of the The 7 need each other to get the auto-bid). But it's fun! Not sure how much I agree with. I think its pretty competitive. No St. John's though?
Quote from: Pakuni on February 22, 2013, 02:02:06 PM
Meh .... if it's something you have to do frequently, it's a drag.
If it's something you have to do at most once a year, it's an adventure.
Though I ultimately agree that the Zags won't be a member, I think the benefits absolutely outweigh the negatives.
Something tells me that - though not a member - Gonzaga will not escape all benefits of the C7. Most likely we'll see Gonzaga show up in the non-con schedules of several C7 teams every year, perhaps on a purely coincidental but seemingly rotational basis.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 01:36:39 PM
Yup. It would suck, but they could do that. Nothing better than flying several thousand miles, getting off a plane, waiting for luggage, then getting on a 90 minutes bus ride. They are young, they can handle it, but it is a drag.
Don't get me wrong, I get the logistic nightmare of inviting Gonzaga. Probably will not happen. My heart says "make it so" and my mind says "probably no".
Regarding the actual travel itself... as someone who travels internationally quite frequently for work: My god do not have an ounce of sympathy for students making a once a year trip from Milwaukee to Spokane.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 22, 2013, 03:11:24 PM
Don't get me wrong, I get the logistic nightmare of inviting Gonzaga. Probably will not happen. My heart says "make it so" and my mind says "probably no".
Regarding the actual travel itself... as someone who travels internationally quite frequently for work: My god do not have an ounce of sympathy for students making a once a year trip from Milwaukee to Spokane.
Oh, I get you. Usually my travels are to NYC and Denver, but I also make the circuit once a year to the call centers to make sure they are doing what needs to be done. Going to Albuquerque, Boise and Salt Lake City, no problem. Getting to fun places like Tulsa, McAllen TX, Pueblo CO, Chattanooga, Valdosta, Pocatello, etc, etc....not as much fun. :)
I agree with Pakuni, when I was out of college I lived on an airplane it seemed...three weeks of every month. It was an adventure....I have to remember to put myself in those shoes of an 18 to 22 year old and not in today's world where making that trip would be a big drag.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 04:26:00 PM
Oh, I get you. Usually my travels are to NYC and Denver, but I also make the circuit once a year to the call centers to make sure they are doing what needs to be done. Going to Albuquerque, Boise and Salt Lake City, no problem. Getting to fun places like Tulsa, McAllen TX, Pueblo CO, Chattanooga, Valdosta, Pocatello, etc, etc....not as much fun. :)
I agree with Pakuni, when I was out of college I lived on an airplane it seemed...three weeks of every month. It was an adventure....I have to remember to put myself in those shoes of an 18 to 22 year old and not in today's world where making that trip would be a big drag.
I love Chattanooga!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 01:36:39 PM
Yup. It would suck, but they could do that. Nothing better than flying several thousand miles, getting off a plane, waiting for luggage, then getting on a 90 minutes bus ride. They are young, they can handle it, but it is a drag.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTFZ9RkX6KLGX4327Yfq0SNtjbrT7-Rj471DzDb05hiqCwpU1dG)
Why didn't you check your bag?
I didn't want to risk it getting lost. These flights to Spokane are grueling...
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 22, 2013, 09:51:16 AM
Milwaukee has joined the 90's. Southwest now flies outta here.
lol
More like the 2000s.
The Mil-SJ service WOULD'VE helped me in the 90s.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 04:26:00 PM
Oh, I get you. Usually my travels are to NYC and Denver, but I also make the circuit once a year to the call centers to make sure they are doing what needs to be done. Going to Albuquerque, Boise and Salt Lake City, no problem. Getting to fun places like Tulsa, McAllen TX, Pueblo CO, Chattanooga, Valdosta, Pocatello, etc, etc....not as much fun. :)
I agree with Pakuni, when I was out of college I lived on an airplane it seemed...three weeks of every month. It was an adventure....I have to remember to put myself in those shoes of an 18 to 22 year old and not in today's world where making that trip would be a big drag.
It took me less than two years out of school before the airport started to look like a bus station. That's when I knew the bloom was off the rose.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 04:26:00 PM
I agree with Pakuni, when I was out of college I lived on an airplane it seemed...three weeks of every month. It was an adventure....I have to remember to put myself in those shoes of an 18 to 22 year old and not in today's world where making that trip would be a big drag.
Yes but after we travel, connect flights, lose bags and get in late, we are not expected to get up the next morning and win a tennis match, or soccer game against an opponent of equal abilty. Instead, we stumble through the day bleary eyed fueled by caffeine.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 22, 2013, 09:26:00 AM
This.
Gonzaga is literally across the entire country for the east coast schools. It is NOT going to happen.
That said, I love the Zags and their program, not to mention their shared Jesuit tradition.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 22, 2013, 09:11:45 AM
We'd have 1 of those a year. Worth it.
Would you rather have a 10 pm start against a top 10 team or a 7 pm start against Dayton?
Easy choice.
But they would have a lot of 4pm starts.
Quote from: RJax55 on February 22, 2013, 09:45:10 AM
Question, are the Zags even interested in joining?
Yes, the Zags are definitely interested. Still looking at ways to make it work. Adding GU would be a home run.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 22, 2013, 04:52:17 PM
I love Chattanooga!
I do, too, it's just a pain in the rear to get there from So. Cal...multiple stops.
I live in the midst of Zags country here in Montana. Hundreds of GU alums here in Billings. There is absolutely no talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that is on the other side of the country. Believe me, they love the role of playing Cinderella even if no one else believes it or cares anymore. They love playing a grueling non-con schedule before the big boys get their acts together, winning a few of those, and then retreating back into their low major WCC, feasting on cupcakes and assuring another NCAA tourney berth. Gonzo is a media darling of the highest order. If I have to listen to Andy Katz salivate over them one more time I'm going to barf. Look, the Zags have only played 3 ranked teams this year and they lost 2 of those games. The Catholic 7 isn't looking to Spokane and the Zags aren't looking to leave their cushy gig called the WCC.
Quote from: Montana Warrior on February 22, 2013, 08:56:38 PM
I live in the midst of Zags country here in Montana. Hundreds of GU alums here in Billings. There is absolutely no talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that is on the other side of the country. Believe me, they love the role of playing Cinderella even if no one else believes it or cares anymore. They love playing a grueling non-con schedule before the big boys get their acts together, winning a few of those, and then retreating back into their low major WCC, feasting on cupcakes and assuring another NCAA tourney berth. Gonzo is a media darling of the highest order. If I have to listen to Andy Katz salivate over them one more time I'm going to barf. Look, the Zags have only played 3 ranked teams this year and they lost 2 of those games. The Catholic 7 isn't looking to Spokane and the Zags aren't looking to leave their cushy gig called the WCC.
A----F'ING---MEN
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaFzXFzllolA0IHIDl4JlU-O7lB0OIYFmR4SiTmIo9wJDfjCHq)
Quote from: Montana Warrior on February 22, 2013, 08:56:38 PM
The Catholic 7 isn't looking to Spokane and the Zags aren't looking to leave their cushy gig called the WCC.
I swear on a stack of Jesuit-blessed Bibles that I will donate $1000 to Al's Run if Gomzaga is in the C7+. It's so incredibly implausible.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 09:02:12 PM
A----F'ING---MEN
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSaFzXFzllolA0IHIDl4JlU-O7lB0OIYFmR4SiTmIo9wJDfjCHq)
Not so much to drag down the Zags but their media attention is more about the lack of relevance of west coast hoops than the strength of GU. If the Zags play in a high major conference, mediocrity will come fast. Big time talent is not headed to the backwater that is Spokane. Their roster is full of Canadians and Euros for a reason. We don't need Gonzaga.
Quote from: Montana Warrior on February 22, 2013, 10:41:06 PM
Not so much to drag down the Zags but their media attention is more about the lack of relevance of west coast hoops than the strength of GU. If the Zags play in a high major conference, mediocrity will come fast. Big time talent is not headed to the backwater that is Spokane. Their roster is full of Canadians and Euros for a reason. We don't need Gonzaga.
That's also why the idea of them being a #1 seed just blows my mind. They are a good team, capable of doing a lot, making the Final Four, but if they had to play in the Big East, ACC, Big Ten, etc, they would not be a two loss team. Hell, they lost to the 6th place Big Ten team on their home court by double digits and a loss to the Atlantic 10's 3rd place team. They would have 4 of 5 more losses in a top 5 conference. Please please please have MU in Gonzaga's bracket if they get a #1 seed.
Quote from: Montana Warrior on February 22, 2013, 08:56:38 PM
I live in the midst of Zags country here in Montana. Hundreds of GU alums here in Billings. There is absolutely no talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that is on the other side of the country. Believe me, they love the role of playing Cinderella even if no one else believes it or cares anymore. They love playing a grueling non-con schedule before the big boys get their acts together, winning a few of those, and then retreating back into their low major WCC, feasting on cupcakes and assuring another NCAA tourney berth. Gonzo is a media darling of the highest order. If I have to listen to Andy Katz salivate over them one more time I'm going to barf. Look, the Zags have only played 3 ranked teams this year and they lost 2 of those games. The Catholic 7 isn't looking to Spokane and the Zags aren't looking to leave their cushy gig called the WCC.
I live in the midst of Zags country here in Seattle. Tens of thousands of GU alums here in the Puget Sound. There is absolutely fevered talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that features universities with similar traditions and missions. Believe me, they see GU as the national program it truly is and want the Zags to take their rightful place on a bigger stage. They are ashamed to retreat back into the low major WCC, where they feast on cupcakes and earn NCAA tourney berths that are tarnished by the weakness of their schedule. The days of GU being a media darling are numbered so long as they remain in the WCC. I listen to Andy Katz and know that he is far more connected than any poster on this board; if he is hearing the Zags are looking at the C7 then there is much more credibility in his insight than anyone at Scoop. The Catholic 7 is looking to Spokane and the Zags are seriously considering investigating leaving their current home in a low major conference which they have long since outgrown.
(http://cdn.tradebit.org/usr/engjengneer23/pub/9002/Hallelujah.gif)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 22, 2013, 10:51:23 PM
Please please please have MU in Gonzaga's bracket if they get a #1 seed.
God help us if we are
Quote from: keefe on February 22, 2013, 10:58:29 PM
I live in the midst of Zags country here in Seattle. Tens of thousands of GU alums here in the Puget Sound. There is absolutely fevered talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that features universities with similar traditions and missions. Believe me, they see GU as the national program it truly is and want the Zags to take their rightful place on a bigger stage. They are ashamed to retreat back into the low major WCC, where they feast on cupcakes and earn NCAA tourney berths that are tarnished by the weakness of their schedule. The days of GU being a media darling are numbered so long as they remain in the WCC. I listen to Andy Katz and know that he is far more connected than any poster on this board; if he is hearing the Zags are looking at the C7 then there is much more credibility in his insight than anyone at Scoop. The Catholic 7 is looking to Spokane and the Zags are seriously considering investigating leaving their current home in a low major conference which they have long since outgrown.
(http://cdn.tradebit.org/usr/engjengneer23/pub/9002/Hallelujah.gif)
Andy Katz manufactures news as much as he reports it. Ask Jimmy Boeheim, he isn't wrong. Only consecutive Final Fours or a NCAA championship gets the Zags out of the WCC.
Quote from: Montana Warrior on February 22, 2013, 11:39:38 PM
Andy Katz manufactures news as much as he reports it. Ask Jimmy Boeheim, he isn't wrong. Only consecutive Final Fours or a NCAA championship gets the Zags out of the WCC.
Mark Few wants out of the WCC:
"We're happy with where we're at but we're going to continue to monitor everything that's going on," Few said. "We've built ourselves into a national program and we're going to do what's best for Gonzaga. Because of our success, we've put ourselves into a position where we're attractive to other entities out there."
Quote from: keefe on February 22, 2013, 11:01:58 PM
God help us if we are
Why do you overrate them so much? Is it the scary woodshed beating they put on Univ of San Diego recently by two points? The fact they were up 5 on might San Francisco with 5 minutes to go last week? Their home loss to the 6th place Big Ten team?
They haven't played a top notched team in more than 6 weeks when they hit the NCAA tournament. Please have MU in their bracket!!
Quote from: keefe on February 22, 2013, 10:58:29 PM
I live in the midst of Zags country here in Seattle. Tens of thousands of GU alums here in the Puget Sound. There is absolutely fevered talk amongst this crowd of joining a real cbb conference, especially one that features universities with similar traditions and missions. Believe me, they see GU as the national program it truly is and want the Zags to take their rightful place on a bigger stage. They are ashamed to retreat back into the low major WCC, where they feast on cupcakes and earn NCAA tourney berths that are tarnished by the weakness of their schedule. The days of GU being a media darling are numbered so long as they remain in the WCC. I listen to Andy Katz and know that he is far more connected than any poster on this board; if he is hearing the Zags are looking at the C7 then there is much more credibility in his insight than anyone at Scoop. The Catholic 7 is looking to Spokane and the Zags are seriously considering investigating leaving their current home in a low major conference which they have long since outgrown.
Well if Andy Katz says so........
Gonzaga should look out for other opportunities, they are fools not to. C7 should look at them, doesn't mean a marriage is happening anytime soon. Geography kills them, especially if no one takes their terrible sports programs off their hands for another conference, and why would any other conference do them that favor? The conference commissioner that agrees to that deal better get massive $$$ for taking on the Zags baseball, volleyball, track, soccer, etc programs because it's a loser situation for that conference.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 23, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
Well if Andy Katz says so........
Gonzaga should look out for other opportunities, they are fools not to. C7 should look at them, doesn't mean a marriage is happening anytime soon. Geography kills them, especially if no one takes their terrible sports programs off their hands for another conference, and why would any other conference do them that favor? The conference commissioner that agrees to that deal better get massive $$$ for taking on the Zags baseball, volleyball, track, soccer, etc programs because it's a loser situation for that conference.
What will kill GU joining will be not finding a home for their Olympic sports.
Quote from: keefe on February 23, 2013, 11:50:19 AM
What will kill GU joining will be not finding a home for their Olympic sports.
Does that include exotic mushroom collecting?
Why, and how, do their Olympic sports suck so much? At least that's the impression I'm getting from some posters here. SF, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, and LMU all have good overall athletic departments.
Why does this keep coming up? The logistics of this just is going to be too hard on all the student athletes. The timing of games will be bad for the fans unless they are all played on weekends. It would be most difficult for the Gonzaga.
Quote from: Marqevans on February 23, 2013, 02:19:07 PM
Why does this keep coming up? The logistics of this just is going to be too hard on all the student athletes. The timing of games will be bad for the fans unless they are all played on weekends. It would be most difficult for the Gonzaga.
Yep, and damned either way I think. Sending all the "other" sports traveling east constantly might be cheaper than paying some conference to let you stick in all of your non-revenue sports...they'd demand "pay to play", a strong non-conference basketball scheduling arrangement, or a combination. Then if you're the C7 relying on basketball money to fund your other sports, you don't want to give Gonzaga equal basketball money when they don't share the non-basketball expenses within conference...logistics are just way too burdening.
Quote from: Aughnanure on February 23, 2013, 02:18:51 PM
Why, and how, do their Olympic sports suck so much? At least that's the impression I'm getting from some posters here. SF, Santa Clara, Pepperdine, and LMU all have good overall athletic departments.
They don't. That's just Chicos trying to blow smoke up your a$$. Gonzaga's athletic program is competitive. I can't understand why he hates the idea of the Zags joining us.
Chico is looking at it in both a financial and student/athlete point of view.
The travel for the Gonzaga student/athletes would be ridiculous. Just looking at it in a time zone situation, the Zags closest road game would be two time zones away. The east coast games would start at 4:00 p.m., so most of your alums (west coast) would have to take off work on a weekday to watch the games. That also leads to west coast alums NEVER being able to see a conference game if they aren't season ticket holders in Spokane or if they don't travel to a road game. No more conference games in San Diego, LA, they Bay Area or Portland. I'm not even going to get into the travel costs for the non-revenue sports where they'd have to fly everywhere.
I just don't understand how people can't see this.
Quote from: TedBaxter on February 23, 2013, 05:01:15 PM
Chico is looking at it in both a financial and student/athlete point of view.
The travel for the Gonzaga student/athletes would be ridiculous. Just looking at it in a time zone situation, the Zags closest road game would be two time zones away. The east coast games would start at 4:00 p.m., so most of your alums (west coast) would have to take off work on a weekday to watch the games. That also leads to west coast alums NEVER being able to see a conference game if they aren't season ticket holders in Spokane or if they don't travel to a road game. No more conference games in San Diego, LA, they Bay Area or Portland. I'm not even going to get into the travel costs for the non-revenue sports where they'd have to fly everywhere.
I just don't understand how people can't see this.
They fly everywhere now! They aren't taking the Silver Dog to Socal!
Gonzaga is #3 in the country, probably won't lose again in the regular season and tournament, has a #1 seed locked up in the NCAA's and could finish the regular season as #1 if Indiana loses, which is more likely than Gonzaga losing at this point. Why would they want to mess with this formula? They play roughly 3-4 tough non-conference games and then play a cupcake league schedule with 2 hard games and coast to the NCAA's every year. if they can do this now, why switch?
Quote from: Norm on February 24, 2013, 01:55:44 AM
Gonzaga is #3 in the country, probably won't lose again in the regular season and tournament, has a #1 seed locked up in the NCAA's and could finish the regular season as #1 if Indiana loses, which is more likely than Gonzaga losing at this point. Why would they want to mess with this formula? They play roughly 3-4 tough non-conference games and then play a cupcake league schedule with 2 hard games and coast to the NCAA's every year. if they can do this now, why switch?
Well, this is hardly the norm. Gonzaga isn't one of the top four teams in the country on a yearly basis. This year is as much about the rest of the country sucking as it is Gonzaga playing in a crappy conference. Most years this Gonzaga team is a 3-seed at best, probably 4-5.
But that's beside the point. As much as a few people (warthog, VMC) are still holding out hope, this just isn't going to happen. The logistics are simply too much. Maybe if Gonzaga were in Seattle, or if Gonzaga had top-notch non-revenue sports, or Gonzaga was another 500 miles east, then maybe. But none of those are the case.
Creighton is as far west as we will go, at least for now.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 22, 2013, 09:30:43 AM
It is 6 hours to Spokane to NYC/Philly/Providence. That a long flight but at least the basketball team flies private and in directly.
To send the soccer team (which number 30 to 40 people when players, coaches, trainers and others are considered) one-way to Spokane on a charter is more than 50k. 100k round trip. I doubt the school spends this much on the entire program (not including scholarships).
I understand your point re. travel costs for non-revenue sports, but you're really overstating your case here. Unless you're talking about the men's and women's team traveling at the same time, where in the world did you get the idea that it would be that many people? Speaking of experience, it would be 25-ish, unless Lil' Louis has added a lot of assistants.
Quote from: keefe on February 23, 2013, 03:05:26 PM
They don't. That's just Chicos trying to blow smoke up your a$$. Gonzaga's athletic program is competitive. I can't understand why he hates the idea of the Zags joining us.
They do suck, it's not me at all. I don't hate the idea at all, they are a solid program, I just don't see why they would do it. I'll use facts to back it up.
If you look at their all sports ratings (Commissioner's Cup) in the WCC, they finish in the bottom almost every year.
REMEMBER, these rankings are WITH men's basketball included. Take them out for the "other sports" and they are even worse.
2011-12 WCC Commissioner's Cup
Overall
1. San Diego 76.5
2. BYU 69.0
3. Pepperdine 67.5
4. Saint Mary's 65.0
5. San Francisco 61.5
6. Loyola Marymount 58.0
7. Gonzaga 54.5
8. Santa Clara 54.0
9. Portland 47.0
2010-11 West Coast Conference Commissioner's Cup Final Standings
Overall
1. San Diego 62.5
2. Santa Clara 61.0
3. San Francisco 59.0
4t. Portland 57.5
4t. Saint Mary's 57.5
6. Gonzaga 51.0
7. Loyola Marymount 50.5
8. Pepperdine 42.0
2009 - 2010 WCC Commissioner's Cup
San Diego 66.0
Pepperdine 62.5
Portland 57.0
Saint Mary's 56.5
Santa Clara 55.5
San Francisco 55.0
Loyola Marymount 47.0
Gonzaga 46.5
2008-09 WCC Commissioner's Cup
San Diego 64.0
San Francisco 62.5
Pepperdine 60.5
Loyola Marymount 58.5
Portland 57.0
Gonzaga 56.5
Saint Mary's 47.0
Santa Clara 40.0
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 26, 2013, 02:28:28 PM
They do suck, it's not me at all. I don't hate the idea at all, they are a solid program, I just don't see why they would do it. I'll use facts to back it up.
If you look at their all sports ratings (Commissioner's Cup) in the WCC, they finish in the bottom almost every year.
REMEMBER, these rankings are WITH men's basketball included. Take them out for the "other sports" and they are even worse.
2011-12 WCC Commissioner's Cup
Overall
1. San Diego 76.5
2. BYU 69.0
3. Pepperdine 67.5
4. Saint Mary's 65.0
5. San Francisco 61.5
6. Loyola Marymount 58.0
7. Gonzaga 54.5
8. Santa Clara 54.0
9. Portland 47.0
2010-11 West Coast Conference Commissioner's Cup Final Standings
Overall
1. San Diego 62.5
2. Santa Clara 61.0
3. San Francisco 59.0
4t. Portland 57.5
4t. Saint Mary's 57.5
6. Gonzaga 51.0
7. Loyola Marymount 50.5
8. Pepperdine 42.0
2009 - 2010 WCC Commissioner's Cup
San Diego 66.0
Pepperdine 62.5
Portland 57.0
Saint Mary's 56.5
Santa Clara 55.5
San Francisco 55.0
Loyola Marymount 47.0
Gonzaga 46.5
2008-09 WCC Commissioner's Cup
San Diego 64.0
San Francisco 62.5
Pepperdine 60.5
Loyola Marymount 58.5
Portland 57.0
Gonzaga 56.5
Saint Mary's 47.0
Santa Clara 40.0
Honestly, who cares. Its a basketball-focused conference.
Quote from: Victor McCormick on February 26, 2013, 03:51:32 PM
Honestly, who cares. Its a basketball-focused conference.
It matters in the context of who is going to take them. Keefe has argued that Gonzaga will join in basketball only and the Olympic sports will be housed elsewhere. What I have been asking is, who on earth is going to take Gonzaga's dreadful sports program outside of the men's basketball team and why would they do it? The rest of the athletic department sports don't bring anything to the table, so why would the WCC allow them to stay if hoops bolts? Makes no sense.
If you bring their Olympic sports with them to the C7, then it becomes a much bigger cost issue for us and the rest of the league. So basketball focused or not, this is a complete conference, not just hoops and there are ramifications to decisions.
I think people are arguing at cross purposes. The question isn't whether the new conference would TAKE Gonzaga...it would. The question is whether GONZAGA will want to join. They certainly want to join for basketball, but there are a lot more factors at play here.
It seems to me that the real choice they have to make is whether it is financially feesible for them to travel as much as joining the new conference as an all-sport member would require. This is most certainly a real concern for them and I trust GU to come to the correct answer on this (something tells me they are doing a bit more than google-mapping distances).
If the travel is feesible, they join. If not, they explore a basketball only option. If they can leave their other sports in the WCC and move men's (and also women's?) basketball to the C7, they are likely to go for it. If not, then it becomes time to find someone else to take their Olympic sports. If no one will, then they stay in the WCC until they find a better option.