MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:36:12 PM

Title: BE COY
Post by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:36:12 PM
Does a top-3 finished in the BE lock up a BE coach of the year award for Buzz? Does winning the BE make him a favorite for the national award?
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 19, 2013, 07:37:46 PM
Buzz and JT3 may come down to who finishes better. Maybe pitino if UL wins out and snags the conference
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: KenoshaWarrior on February 19, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
it was only 20 minutes ago when most of you guys were saying how bad of a coach buzz was and how he cant close out halfs
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:40:45 PM
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 19, 2013, 07:37:46 PM
Buzz and JT3 may come down to who finishes better. Maybe pitino if UL wins out and snags the conference

Could be. How many coaches lose 2 NBA draft picks, add a freshman who plays limited minutes and stays in contention for the league title?
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:41:26 PM
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on February 19, 2013, 07:39:46 PM
it was only 20 minutes ago when most of you guys were saying how bad of a coach buzz was and how he cant close out halfs

Why don't you reread my posting history
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on February 19, 2013, 07:41:43 PM
Don't put words in my mouth you piece of crap.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: KenoshaWarrior on February 19, 2013, 07:43:33 PM
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 19, 2013, 07:41:43 PM
Don't put words in my mouth you piece of crap.

I was referring to others not you.   Lighten up!!!
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:44:12 PM
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 19, 2013, 07:41:43 PM
Don't put words in my mouth you piece of crap.

Forget him/her/it

I think buzz has a legitimate shot at national honors
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: 4everwarriors on February 19, 2013, 07:50:13 PM
Larranaga
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: chapman on February 19, 2013, 07:53:02 PM
During the @USF game, LaPhonso Ellis had said Buzz had his vote for BE COY at that point.  If we get at least a share of the regular season title he should be a no-brainer.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Warriors10 on February 19, 2013, 07:53:42 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 19, 2013, 07:50:13 PM
Larranaga

Damn.  I didn't know they came back to the BE.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: warriorchick on February 19, 2013, 07:55:57 PM
Personal affinity aside, I would vote for Buzz over JT3 simply because Buzz doesn't have JT2 to critique all of his decisions.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 19, 2013, 07:57:59 PM
Heath stole one last year when Buzz should have gotten a look.

I think it's a definite he gets it this year.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: lab_warrior on February 19, 2013, 08:13:07 PM
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 19, 2013, 07:41:43 PM
Don't put words in my mouth you piece of crap.

HaywardsHeroes32

Remember, this is the same f***ing bozo troll who
claims the board is "better when we lose."
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: brewcity77 on February 19, 2013, 08:13:43 PM
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 19, 2013, 07:57:59 PM
Heath stole one last year when Buzz should have gotten a look.

I think it's a definite he gets it this year*

* If we finish 14-4 or better. Still work to be done.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: warriorstrack on February 19, 2013, 08:15:34 PM
Buzz should get serious consideration
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on February 19, 2013, 08:16:08 PM
He should be a lock... taking a team nobody was looking to be anything but middle -of-the-pack and in a rebuilding year to vie for the BE title.  Gotta be the frontrunner right now. Let's see how we finish out
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: NavinRJohnson on February 19, 2013, 08:29:21 PM
Unless UConn or Pitt have an unbelievable finish, it's a two horse race between Buzz and JT3.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: MU_Iceman on February 19, 2013, 08:30:45 PM
Season's not over yet...

BUT (just for shits and grins), if the voting were taking place today I'd think Buzz would have the edge over JT3.

Fingers crossed we can keep rolling!
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 08:31:20 PM
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 19, 2013, 08:29:21 PM
Unless UConn or Pitt have an unbelievable finish, it's a two horse race between Buzz and JT3.

Hard to see a postseason-ineligible coach take the honors. I agree. I think it's between Buzz and that Georgetown guy
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: real chili 83 on February 19, 2013, 08:34:33 PM
Quote from: lab_warrior on February 19, 2013, 08:13:07 PM
HaywardsHeroes32

Remember, this is the same f***ing bozo troll who
claims the board is "better when we lose."


Yah, kw can be a piece of work, but there were a few on the game thread who would have had you believing we were nit bound.  Gotta remember, the game is two 20 minute halves.

Buzz is a great candidate for coy....depending on how strong we finish.

Is the award given out at the end of the reg season or after the BE tourney?
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 19, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
Quote from: real chili 83 on February 19, 2013, 08:34:33 PM
Yah, kw can be a piece of work, but there were a few on the game thread who would have had you believing we were nit bound.  Gotta remember, the game is two 20 minute halves.

Buzz is a great candidate for coy....depending on how strong we finish.

Is the award given out at the end of the reg season or after the BE tourney?

Exaggeration, no?
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: real chili 83 on February 19, 2013, 08:42:08 PM
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 19, 2013, 08:39:23 PM
Exaggeration, no?

Maybe a little overstated.  First half deserved criticism, but the sky was not falling.  Thats all. 

Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: We R Final Four on February 19, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
Quote from: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:40:45 PM
Could be. How many coaches lose 2 NBA draft picks, add a freshman who plays limited minutes and stays in contention for the league title?

John Calipari seems to do it every year.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Lennys Tap on February 19, 2013, 09:30:54 PM
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 19, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
John Calipari seems to do it every year.

Not this year, even with his unlimited budget.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 09:34:39 PM
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 19, 2013, 09:26:35 PM
John Calipari seems to do it every year.

His Freshmen don't play limited minutes
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: chapman on February 19, 2013, 09:41:46 PM
Quote from: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 08:31:20 PM
Hard to see a postseason-ineligible coach take the honors. I agree. I think it's between Buzz and that Georgetown guy

Bill O'Brien says hi.  Though Ollie didn't walk into half the hell; probably his only shot is winning out.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: honkytonk on February 19, 2013, 09:42:38 PM
Quote from: RideMyBuycks on February 19, 2013, 07:40:45 PM
Could be. How many coaches lose 2 NBA draft picks, add a freshman who plays limited minutes and stays in contention for the league title?

LOL. How many PROGRAMS lose a HoF coach, 2 underclassman lottery picks and a couple of transfers due to an APR violation that the current coach had no part of?????

OR--

A coach that lost 2 underclassmen to the NBA draft (one being a lottery pick) and 4 of 5 players that were on the court last year to close out games but no longer are around due to graduation and early entry to the nba (Fab, Joseph, Waiters, Scoop)?
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: NavinRJohnson on February 19, 2013, 09:44:26 PM
Quote from: chapman on February 19, 2013, 09:41:46 PM
Bill O'Brien says hi.  Though Ollie didn't walk into half the hell; probably his only shot is winning out.

Just what I was thinking, though looking ath their schedule, winning out may not be as far fetched as it sounds. If they did, he'd have my vote.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: MU82 on February 19, 2013, 09:45:19 PM
Quote from: Warriors10 on February 19, 2013, 07:53:42 PM
Damn.  I didn't know they came back to the BE.

I believe Larranaga was a response to national honors as mentioned in the previous post. And yes, barring a complete fade, that would be my guess, too. Crean will get plenty of support, BTW.

As for Big East honors, I'd agree that it's probably between Buzz and JT3. In preseason coach poll, GT was picked to finish 5th and we were picked for 7th (as usual).
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Hubert Davis on February 19, 2013, 09:50:58 PM
I think if we end up winning 13 Big East games Buzz definitely deserves to be the Coach of the Year.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: keefe on February 20, 2013, 02:38:24 AM
Not one mention of Pitino or Boeheim?? Funny, because one of them stands a greater chance than Buzz.

For national it will be Larranaga. God I hope so.

ABC, ABC, ABC (Anyone But Crean!)
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Goose on February 20, 2013, 06:31:37 AM
If season ended today it would be hard to vote against Buzz. The guy makes the most of what he has and they play hard every night for the most part.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Hards Alumni on February 20, 2013, 06:56:12 AM
Quote from: Goose on February 20, 2013, 06:31:37 AM
If season ended today it would be hard to vote against Buzz. The guy makes the most of what he has and they play hard every night for the most part.

It would be hard to vote against Buzz except that Miami is playing out of its mind.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: mu_hilltopper on February 20, 2013, 07:48:52 AM
Who votes for BE COY?  Is it the coaches or media?
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: TSmith34, Inc. on February 20, 2013, 07:54:47 AM
Quote from: MU82 on February 19, 2013, 09:45:19 PM
As for Big East honors, I'd agree that it's probably between Buzz and JT3. In preseason coach poll, GT was picked to finish 5th and we were picked for 7th (as usual).

I'm sure some Scooper knows this, but has Buzz ever underperformed pre-season expectations?  Maybe his first season when he inherited the Three Amigos and Dom got injured?  Seems like every single year MU is picked middle of the pack and ever single year he has us fighting for the double bye.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Golden Avalanche on February 20, 2013, 09:02:25 AM
Quote from: keefe on February 20, 2013, 02:38:24 AM
Not one mention of Pitino or Boeheim?? Funny, because one of them stands a greater chance than Buzz.

For national it will be Larranaga. God I hope so.

ABC, ABC, ABC (Anyone But Crean!)

Boeheim didn't get it last year when Cuse dominated the conference. Heath, who finished fifth, took it.

There's something in there about achievement relative to expectation.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: MUMonster03 on February 20, 2013, 09:22:32 AM
I think Buzz gets BE coach of the year if we finish in top 2 in conference.

If Miami continues and gets a 1 seed in the tournament IMO Larranaga gets the national award easily with some others, possibly Buzz getting some votes.

Crean may get some national votes but they were expected to be good and had the talent there to be as good as they are so the coaches who did more with less will probably get more of the votes.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2013, 09:33:08 AM
Lots of candidates for national COY. Larranga is the obvious choice at the moment, but Mark Few,  Buzz, Bo, Crean, JT3...Jim Crews might actually get my vote if they keep doing what they've been doing...plenty to shake out over the next couple weeks.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RJax55 on February 20, 2013, 09:38:00 AM
Quote from: MUMonster03 on February 20, 2013, 09:22:32 AM
Crean may get some national votes but they were expected to be good and had the talent there to be as good as they are so the coaches who did more with less will probably get more of the votes.

IU was the preseason #1. They were expected to be good.

Right now, national COY is Larranga.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: T-Bone on February 20, 2013, 09:53:34 AM
1-2-3-4-5 : hatch-hatch-hatch-hatch-ohsh!t
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Bricky on February 20, 2013, 11:48:21 AM
We were pegged as 7th-8th with lots of unproven talent. Media thought we would be in the bottom half. We assumed our best player was a transfer from a weaker conference. The two players, who basically made up the entire 11-12 team, went on to the NBA. We lost a couple players before the season started, one of which was a proven contributor. This site thought we were having a rebuilding year.

Currently we're in 1st.

I'd say that's COY worthy.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: The Equalizer on February 20, 2013, 01:11:46 PM

I didn't know whether the history has been to award coaches who have have low pre-season expectations, but outperform, or whether to award elite-level coaches who do what is expected.

It looks like there is no set pattern.  Here are the AP and Naismith winners for the last 10 years.  The coaches typically fall into two categories:  A strong performing team from a lower-performing conference (labelled "Unknown").  Or a coach of a #1 or #2 seeded team from a BCS-level conference (for lack of  a better term, I've labelled these "Elite").


   Year      AP      Category   
   2003      Tubby Smith, Kentucky      Elite   
   2004      Phil Martelli, Saint Joseph's      Unexpected   
   2005      Tubby Smith, Kentucky      Elite   
   2006      Roy Williams, North Carolina      Elite   
   2007      Tony Bennett, Washington State      Unexpected   
   2008      Keno Davis, Drake      Unexpected   
   2009      Bill Self, Kansas      Elite   
   2010      Jim Boeheim, Syracuse      Elite   
   2011      Mike Brey, Notre Dame      Elite   
   2012      Frank Haith, Missouri      Elite   

                           
   Year      Naismith      Category   
   2003      Tubby Smith, Kentucky      Elite   
   2004      Phil Martelli, Saint Joseph's      Unexpected   
   2005      Bruce Weber, Illinois      Elite   
   2006      Jay Wright, Villanova      Elite   
   2007      Tony Bennett, Washington State      Unexpected   
   2008      John Calipari (2), Memphis      Elite   
   2009      Jamie Dixon, Pittsburgh      Elite   
   2010      Jim Boeheim*, Syracuse      Elite   
   2011      Steve Fisher, San Diego State      Unexpected   
   2012      Bill Self, Kansas      Elite   


Big Time coaches who lead teams to #1 or #2 seeds win nearly 3/4 of the time, so I have to think that  if the awards were picked today, the short list of most likely winners would include Izzo, Crean, Boeheim, Donovan, Kryszewski--maybe Beilein and Self.

For the rest, right now, Larranga has got to be the hand-down favorite for the "unexpected" vote.  He's a nice guy, been around a long time, and bringing success to a place where nobody would have expected it. 

Mark Few presents is an interesting case. Might be considered in any other year, but I have to think the anti-elite vote this year is going to Larranaga.

Buzz is probably stuck between these two. Nobody has us as a #1 or #2 seed yet, so he probably woudn't get the same consideration as Brey, Wright or Dixon have in the past. And even with a #2 seed, I think a lot of people looked at Brey getting the AP award and went "huh?".

On the other hand, we're too big a program to get the type of consideration that Martelli, Bennett, Fisher or Keno Davis got.  Buzz doesn't have the recruitng challenges that you have at St. Joseph, Washington State, San Diego State or Drake. 
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: hoyasincebirth on February 20, 2013, 01:28:51 PM
BE COY goes to the coach who has exceeded expectations the most. It's a 2 horse race between JT3 and Buzz. Who ever finishes higher will win it. If Whittington hadn't been suspended I would think Buzz could win it if they were a spot or two below JT3 but what JT3 has done missing his second best player is quite impressive.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: dwaderoy2004 on February 20, 2013, 01:38:00 PM
Assuming MU keeps winning, I think Buzz wins COY, while Porter wins POY.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: Silkk the Shaka on February 20, 2013, 01:38:55 PM
Quote from: The Equalizer on February 20, 2013, 01:11:46 PM
I didn't know whether the history has been to award coaches who have have low pre-season expectations, but outperform, or whether to award elite-level coaches who do what is expected.

It looks like there is no set pattern.  Here are the AP and Naismith winners for the last 10 years.  The coaches typically fall into two categories:  A strong performing team from a lower-performing conference (labelled "Unknown").  Or a coach of a #1 or #2 seeded team from a BCS-level conference (for lack of  a better term, I've labelled these "Elite").


   Year      AP      Category   
   2003      Tubby Smith, Kentucky      Elite   
   2004      Phil Martelli, Saint Joseph's      Unexpected   
   2005      Tubby Smith, Kentucky      Elite   
   2006      Roy Williams, North Carolina      Elite   
   2007      Tony Bennett, Washington State      Unexpected   
   2008      Keno Davis, Drake      Unexpected   
   2009      Bill Self, Kansas      Elite   
   2010      Jim Boeheim, Syracuse      Elite   
   2011      Mike Brey, Notre Dame      Elite   
   2012      Frank Haith, Missouri      Elite   

                           
   Year      Naismith      Category   
   2003      Tubby Smith, Kentucky      Elite   
   2004      Phil Martelli, Saint Joseph's      Unexpected   
   2005      Bruce Weber, Illinois      Elite   
   2006      Jay Wright, Villanova      Elite   
   2007      Tony Bennett, Washington State      Unexpected   
   2008      John Calipari (2), Memphis      Elite   
   2009      Jamie Dixon, Pittsburgh      Elite   
   2010      Jim Boeheim*, Syracuse      Elite   
   2011      Steve Fisher, San Diego State      Unexpected   
   2012      Bill Self, Kansas      Elite   


Big Time coaches who lead teams to #1 or #2 seeds win nearly 3/4 of the time, so I have to think that  if the awards were picked today, the short list of most likely winners would include Izzo, Crean, Boeheim, Donovan, Kryszewski--maybe Beilein and Self.

For the rest, right now, Larranga has got to be the hand-down favorite for the "unexpected" vote.  He's a nice guy, been around a long time, and bringing success to a place where nobody would have expected it. 

Mark Few presents is an interesting case. Might be considered in any other year, but I have to think the anti-elite vote this year is going to Larranaga.

Buzz is probably stuck between these two. Nobody has us as a #1 or #2 seed yet, so he probably woudn't get the same consideration as Brey, Wright or Dixon have in the past. And even with a #2 seed, I think a lot of people looked at Brey getting the AP award and went "huh?".

On the other hand, we're too big a program to get the type of consideration that Martelli, Bennett, Fisher or Keno Davis got.  Buzz doesn't have the recruitng challenges that you have at St. Joseph, Washington State, San Diego State or Drake. 

Well, Miami will likely get a 1 or 2 seed, therefroe falling into your "Elite" category, not "Unexpected" for Larranga.
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: KenoshaWarrior on February 20, 2013, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: lab_warrior on February 19, 2013, 08:13:07 PM
HaywardsHeroes32

Remember, this is the same f***ing bozo troll who
claims the board is "better when we lose."


Well it is.

Way more pages of info after we lose than when we win.

Lab Warrior=Smug Dick of the year!!
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: keefe on February 20, 2013, 03:05:55 PM
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on February 19, 2013, 07:57:59 PM
Heath stole one last year

Somehow I don't think Stan Heath will be under consideration for that honor this year
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: RJax55 on February 20, 2013, 03:11:46 PM
Quote from: keefe on February 20, 2013, 03:05:55 PM
Somehow I don't think Stan Heath will be under consideration for that honor this year

Understatement
Title: Re: BE COY
Post by: The Equalizer on February 20, 2013, 03:15:39 PM
Quote from: Jajuannaman on February 20, 2013, 01:38:55 PM
Well, Miami will likely get a 1 or 2 seed, therefroe falling into your "Elite" category, not "Unexpected" for Larranga.

Good point.

Still think Buzz would be well behind Izzo, Crean, Beilein, and Donovan--as well as Larranaga--if the vote were held today.



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