If you did not see it in the second half of the Florida/Kentucky game, Nerlens Noel crashed into the padded basket support and fell to the ground holding his knee screaming in pain. He was carried off the floor and taken to the University of Florida Hospital for more evaluation. He left the Hospital in a wheelchair and flew back to Lexington with his team.
Story and video (starting at 40 seconds) here
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8941964/nerlens-noel-kentucky-wildcats-injures-knee-helped-court-florida-gators
The sports media is speculating/assuming this is a serious injury and he is out for the rest of the season and his high lottery draft status, maybe even #1 status, is now at risk.
Eamonn Brennan is now asking if the NBA age limit rules are a mistake as it could cost Noel a lot of money. He wonder if they should change them.
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/75916/noels-knee-as-age-limit-referendum
And Pat Forde said this:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaab--nerlens-noel-s-fluke-knee-injury-casts-bleak-pall-over-promising-talent-s-basketball-career-042703462.html
Noel may have gotten hurt in 2013 no matter where he was playing, but at least he would be under contract and well-compensated by whatever NBA team would have drafted him in the first round last June.
Instead, he wound up playing for scholarship money at Kentucky. And while that is nothing to sneeze at, Noel's presence on campus represents restraint of trade and a bastardization of what college is supposed to be.
He wants to be a pro basketball player. Let him be a pro basketball player without the charade of college delaying it.
You think a change is coming? Should a Change come?
I say no to the change is coming and yes it should change. If a player is good enough for the NBA in High School, why force him to wait a year?
If the NBA does change the rules that allow people like Anthony Davis, Jabari Parker and Noel to jump straight to the NBA, how does this affect Duke/UNC/Kentucky etc? Do they lose because they no longer get the high talented one-and-done players? Or, do they take the next level of solid four year player and the programs a level below them (IU/Mich State/UCLA) suffers as they lose their recruits to these high blue bloods?
Thoughts?
I hate the rule, I think it's ridiculous.
You either should be able to be drafted right out of high school or a min. of 2 years in college. Let the player decide to take the risk of being drafted or not. This whole one year rule is stupid and the only reason its implemented is because NBA teams didn't want to scout high school gyms along with the fact they didn't want to continously draft a bust.
Basketball is not like football, kids out of high school have the physical abilites to play in the NBA right away, so all this wanting the kids to mature is bull. What is really one year going to do? Noel would have been a projected top 3 pick in LAST years draft and his college experience could really only hurt him.
The NBA wants colleges to babysit these guys for a year so that they can a) better evaluate their skill sets and b) monitor their behavior/maturity. Total BS.
Quote from: Warriors10 on February 13, 2013, 09:14:55 AM
You either should be able to be drafted right out of high school or a min. of 2 years in college. Let the player decide to take the risk of being drafted or not. This whole one year rule is stupid and the only reason its implemented is because NBA teams didn't want to scout high school gyms along with the fact they didn't want to continously draft a bust.
Basketball is not like football, kids out of high school have the physical abilites to play in the NBA right away, so all this wanting the kids to mature is bull. What is really one year going to do? Noel would have been a projected top 3 pick in LAST years draft and his college experience could really only hurt him.
agreed 100%. plus, the NFL/NCAA/Maurice Clarett case has already been run through the courts, so there is precidence.
No. Because it's the NBA's rule (backed by the players' union), the NBA doesn't care about Nerlens Noel, and the NBAPA only cares about current dues-paying members, not future members.
Personally, I think it should be 3 years at college minimum. It makes college basketball better, and it gives the NBA more time to evaluate players. For every KG, Lebron, or Kobe Bryant, there is a Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, and Darius Miles. Those players (and a few others) really set back the franchises that drafted them
The rule was put in place in part to save the NBA GMs from themselves. They kept drafting HS kids who had no business being in the NBA at that point but they had too much potential to pass on.
The NBA needs to fold the money suck that is the WNBA, develop the NBDL so that each team has its own affiliate and expand the draft to 5 rounds. If a HS grad wants to skip college and play pro ball, more power to him, but he should do so knowing that he's likely going to toil in the D-League for a couple years (while making D-League money). If a HS grad wants to play college ball, make him stay there for at least 2 seasons before entering the draft. A similar system works well for MLB. There's no reason to believe that it won't work well for the NBA.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 13, 2013, 09:28:32 AM
Personally, I think it should be 3 years at college minimum. It makes college basketball better, and it gives the NBA more time to evaluate players. For every KG, Lebron, or Kobe Bryant, there is a Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, and Darius Miles. Those players (and a few others) really set back the franchises that drafted them
There are going to be busts regardless, there have been just as many that have come out of college. It's up to the teams to get better at evaluating talent in the draft or learn to acquire talent through trades and free agency.
Quote from: Benny B on February 13, 2013, 09:27:32 AM
No. Because it's the NBA's rule (backed by the players' union), the NBA doesn't care about Nerlens Noel, and the NBAPA only cares about current dues-paying members, not future members.
Exactly. The NBAPA wants veterans taking up roster spots, not highly-paid projects who need 2-3 years to develop.
Of course the rule should change. But it won't, at least not anytime soon.
NBA honchos do not want to have to scout, draft and babysit high school kids; the NBA Players Association wants money to go to its current pros rather than to 18-year-olds; and the NCAA certainly doesn't want to lose its best prospects to the pros. So there is neither incentive nor momentum for a change back to the rule that let LeBron and Kobe go from preps-to-pros.
In fact, the governing bodies will argue that for every LeBron and Kobe there are dozens of kids who think they are good enough but aren't and end up having their lives ruined when the dream isn't fulfilled.
Could this end up in court? Maybe, but I doubt it. It is part of a collectively bargained agreement and the NBA is a private enterprise. The CBA has at least four more years left (it runs through 2021 but there is a mutual opt-out in 2017) and the sides are in no rush to reopen it, certainly not for this issue.
As for the injury turning Noel from rich man to pauper, that is being overblown. A toe injury limited Duke's Kyrie Irving to only 11 games, yet he was the No. 1 draft pick. Oklahoma QB Sam Bradford suffered a serious injury to his throwing shoulder but was still drafted No. 1. Unless Noel's injury is diagnosed as career-ending, he still will be the No. 1 pick or close to it.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 13, 2013, 09:28:32 AM
Personally, I think it should be 3 years at college minimum. It makes college basketball better, and it gives the NBA more time to evaluate players. For every KG, Lebron, or Kobe Bryant, there is a Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, and Darius Miles. Those players (and a few others) really set back the franchises that drafted them
Probably should choose better examples. Darius Miles averaged over 10 pts a game over a decade long NBA career. Telfair bounced around, but is still in the league. Kwame Brown is probably the best example as he was completely immature and unready for the NBA, but he is still collecting an NBA paycheck 10 years later. Not every draftee can be a star. You could choose guys like Robert Swift, James Lang (who?), or everyone's favorite...Eddy Curry
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 13, 2013, 09:35:45 AM
The rule was put in place in part to save the NBA GMs from themselves. They kept drafting HS kids who had no business being in the NBA at that point but they had too much potential to pass on.
The NBA needs to fold the money suck that is the WNBA, develop the NBDL so that each team has its own affiliate and expand the draft to 5 rounds. If a HS grad wants to skip college and play pro ball, more power to him, but he should do so knowing that he's likely going to toil in the D-League for a couple years (while making D-League money). If a HS grad wants to play college ball, make him stay there for at least 2 seasons before entering the draft. A similar system works well for MLB. There's no reason to believe that it won't work well for the NBA.
Sounds great to me.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 13, 2013, 09:28:32 AM
Personally, I think it should be 3 years at college minimum. It makes college basketball better, and it gives the NBA more time to evaluate players. For every KG, Lebron, or Kobe Bryant, there is a Sebastian Telfair, Kwame Brown, and Darius Miles. Those players (and a few others) really set back the franchises that drafted them
I think you should go back and do some research. Most of the hs players were hits due to their talents. I remember going through every draft when they placed the rule and bring surprised how many hs went on to being longtime nba starters. I also think a year of playing against professionals and getting coached by professionals is so much better than a year in college. College coaches are game teachers like they used to be. Why is buzz a great coach? He recruits and gets his players to play hard. He's an average to below average X's and O's coach IMO.
The rule will never change though since it helps with exposure to players getting drafted by the teams. Plus it forces the NCAA to pay for the development even if its not as good.
Unfortunately basketball suffers with the current rule or the rule change to eliminate it. Let high school seniors in and that hurts both the NBA and college hoops. The kids aren't ready from a maturity standpoint, they miss out on that maturation process in college. Many of the HS'ers ride the pine in the NBA and takes years for them to accomplish anything, if ever.
The current system doesn't help much either. Puts the elite players at risk of injury...very rare, but it does happen. Schools like Kentucky benefit as a destination spot for these kids which can put the competitive balance out of whack.
No easy answer, but letting the seniors in high school go to the NBA directly makes me believe it's another hit to the game of basketball at the professional and college level. I'd prefer 2 years minimum. Don't like it, go play in Europe.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 13, 2013, 09:35:45 AM
The rule was put in place in part to save the NBA GMs from themselves. They kept drafting HS kids who had no business being in the NBA at that point but they had too much potential to pass on.
To that I would add that they were drafting HS kids whose bodies were an unknown when it came to a professional training & practice regimen. College gives the NBA the ability to gauge how a kid's body is going to hold up to the rigors of a schedule and regimen which - although is not quite the pro level - is far beyond anything he was subjected to in HS. Some people simply have "weak" bodies, not in terms of muscle strength, but bone, joints, ligaments, etc., making them what some would term "injury-prone." These kids might go through HS with no issues whatsoever, and nothing's going to show up in physicals, MRI's, evaluations/workouts, etc., but once they're on a college or pro training schedule... boom, injury city. Look no further than Greg Oden, and you'll understand what I mean.
I don't care how talented a kid is, if he's injury-prone, you better believe GM's want to know that before they draft him. Sure, guys like Oden and Andrew Bogut might slip through a year or two of college with no problems, but if Charlotte passes on Noel this year because of this injury, they may very well save themselves a few million dollars if he turns out to be the next Oden.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2013, 09:23:48 AM
The NBA wants colleges to babysit these guys for a year so that they can a) better evaluate their skill sets and b) monitor their behavior/maturity. Total BS.
This.
If someone is 18 years old and wants to enter the NBA draft, so be it. They're adults.
If and NBA GM is brain dead and lazy enough to overpay for immature, overrated turds like Kwame Brown, Sebastian Telfair, and Jonathan Bender, so be it.
As an avid Bulls and NBA fan, I believe this rule was necessary to keep it's fans and protect it's product. Countless veteran players were being dropped from rosters to make room for immature HS projects. No one wants to pay for pricey tickets to wait around for the kid to develop while hurting the team short term (turnovers) and long term (after the 3 year rookie contract runs out and he leaves). Not to mention the amount of kids who didn't develop and took salary cap space. I for one am happy that the rule is in place. Obviously every rule has in intended consequences. But the good outweighs the bad (from the NBA's point of view). But if you care less about the NBA, and only of the NCAA product, I wouldn't like the rule either. NBA D League would be good place for a minor league system for the guys who don't want to go to college... But that debases the lottery draft again.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 13, 2013, 09:35:45 AM
The rule was put in place in part to save the NBA GMs from themselves. They kept drafting HS kids who had no business being in the NBA at that point but they had too much potential to pass on.
The NBA needs to fold the money suck that is the WNBA, develop the NBDL so that each team has its own affiliate and expand the draft to 5 rounds. If a HS grad wants to skip college and play pro ball, more power to him, but he should do so knowing that he's likely going to toil in the D-League for a couple years (while making D-League money). If a HS grad wants to play college ball, make him stay there for at least 2 seasons before entering the draft. A similar system works well for MLB. There's no reason to believe that it won't work well for the NBA.
Fantastic post. I could not agree with this more.
Quote from: JWags85 on February 13, 2013, 09:41:33 AM
Probably should choose better examples. Darius Miles averaged over 10 pts a game over a decade long NBA career. Telfair bounced around, but is still in the league. Kwame Brown is probably the best example as he was completely immature and unready for the NBA, but he is still collecting an NBA paycheck 10 years later. Not every draftee can be a star. You could choose guys like Robert Swift, James Lang (who?), or everyone's favorite...Eddy Curry
Robert Swift had no business being in the NBA but made over $11M in 5 NBA seasons.
Eddy Curry actually had a few good years in his NBA career. He also has a championship ring and has made over $70M.
While both of their games would have benefited from college, it's hard to tell a kid to play in college for free when bad players in the NBA make that kind of money because of "potential."
Why not an MLB-type system that allows a player to sign out of high school, but if he chooses college instead, he's ineligible to be drafted for three seasons or after his 21st birthday, whichever comes first?
This would:
- prevent kids from facing an either/or situation. They'll find out their worth to the pros without having to abandon the college route. And the kids who have no interest in college, and probably don't belong in college, won't be forced into college.
- provide stability and improve quality in the college game. If a kid shows up on campus, you know you've got him for at least three seasons. Though Kentucky has had success with the one and done model, I imagine even Calipari hates having to rebuild his roster on annually.
- force the NBA to create a real farm system to develop talent, and allow them to develop talent without the pressure to play the kids who aren't ready
-
One other way of looking at this question is from a Marquette fan's point of view. There are more than a few of our guys who probably wouldn't have had the opportunity if you had 15+ guys a year that were being drafted out of high school... Even if the NBA draft was expanded a few rounds for a larger NBA d league.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 13, 2013, 10:01:14 AM
No easy answer, but letting the seniors in high school go to the NBA directly makes me believe it's another hit to the game of basketball at the professional and college level. I'd prefer 2 years minimum. Don't like it, go play in Europe.
Yep. And frankly, I'm surprised more top players don't do the Brandon Jennings thing and make $ for a year over in Europe.
Quote from: lab_warrior on February 13, 2013, 10:02:07 AM
This.
If someone is 18 years old and wants to enter the NBA draft, so be it. They're adults.
If and NBA GM is brain dead and lazy enough to overpay for immature, overrated turds like Kwame Brown, Sebastian Telfair, and Jonathan Bender, so be it.
Bender was a pretty good player whose career was ruined by injuries. With his playing days behind him, he's gone on to do some really good charity work in his home state of Louisiana. He's neither immature nor a turd.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/25/sports/basketball/25knicks.html?_r=0
I think there are sort of 2 conversations going on:
#1 From a private business perspective, the NBA's rule is wise, and honestly, they should make it 2 or 3 years. Why not let guys develop in their skills in college and build a fan following before they enter the NBA? A TON of entry level jobs require a college degree, even if said degree isn't really applicable to the job role. The NBA is doing the same thing.
#2 From a "freedom perspective", if a kid can play, he can play. A college education doesn't really make him better at putting a ball through a hoop. I totally get that.
Given that the NBA IS NOT a government entity, they are free to run their business as they see fit... so in reality, #2 doesn't mean sh!t, and that's important to remember when we have conversation about what they "should do". The NBA should do whatever it wants to do. If the fans/free market don't support it, then they will change.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 13, 2013, 10:27:58 AM
Why not an MLB-type system that allows a player to sign out of high school, but if he chooses college instead, he's ineligible to be drafted for three seasons or after his 21st birthday, whichever comes first?
This would:
- prevent kids from facing an either/or situation. They'll find out their worth to the pros without having to abandon the college route. And the kids who have no interest in college, and probably don't belong in college, won't be forced into college.
- provide stability and improve quality in the college game. If a kid shows up on campus, you know you've got him for at least three seasons. Though Kentucky has had success with the one and done model, I imagine even Calipari hates having to rebuild his roster on annually.
- force the NBA to create a real farm system to develop talent, and allow them to develop talent without the pressure to play the kids who aren't ready
-
I think your plan would work, but why would the NBA do that?
If I was the NBA, I would just make the rule 2 years and keep letting college hoops be the infrastructure for my minor league.
Why would the NBA want to invest a bunch more time and money into an infrastructure they currently have for free?
Morality?
Quote from: TomW1365 on February 13, 2013, 10:15:15 AM
As an avid Bulls and NBA fan, I believe this rule was necessary to keep it's fans and protect it's product. Countless veteran players were being dropped from rosters to make room for immature HS projects. No one wants to pay for pricey tickets to wait around for the kid to develop while hurting the team short term (turnovers) and long term (after the 3 year rookie contract runs out and he leaves). Not to mention the amount of kids who didn't develop and took salary cap space. I for one am happy that the rule is in place. Obviously every rule has in intended consequences. But the good outweighs the bad (from the NBA's point of view). But if you care less about the NBA, and only of the NCAA product, I wouldn't like the rule either. NBA D League would be good place for a minor league system for the guys who don't want to go to college... But that debases the lottery draft again.
When you're running a business in a free country you weigh the risk/reward of the decisions you make and act accordingly. Make good decisions, you prosper. Poor ones, you fail. Now I get why the NBA doesn't want it to be a free country, but telling adults they're not allowed to play in the NBA because the people in charge would make foolish decisions and hurt their own product is unfair.
Noel could purchased an insurance policy to protect him in case of injury.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 13, 2013, 10:43:02 AM
I think your plan would work, but why would the NBA do that?
If I was the NBA, I would just make the rule 2 years and keep letting college hoops be the infrastructure for my minor league.
Why would the NBA want to invest a bunch more time and money into an infrastructure they currently have for free?
Morality?
The naive, simple answer: to create a better product at the highest level.
Bring in young players and develop them in YOUR system. Let them focus on basketball 24/7. Work with them on the areas where they need to improve and actually provide some semblance of teaching and guidance to help them become legit NBA players. Don't just hope that they learn from watching veterans while sitting on the bench.
That said, I completely understand what you're saying and, again, the "better product" notion is naive considering the NBA already has a free feeder league.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 13, 2013, 10:43:02 AM
I think your plan would work, but why would the NBA do that?
If I was the NBA, I would just make the rule 2 years and keep letting college hoops be the infrastructure for my minor league.
Why would the NBA want to invest a bunch more time and money into an infrastructure they currently have for free?
Morality?
I can see a couple of benefits for the NBA:
- it lessens the need for them to draft solely on potential. The high schoolers you'll see them drafting early will be kids they're confident can play right away and have obvious NBA skills. Guys like LeBron, Rose, Dwight Howard, etc. Otherwise, they won't draft less-than sure things players who have options.
- It forces most players to develop for three years in college, giving NBA teams a better read on their abilities and allowing them to enter the league more "NBA-ready." It's been said here and elsewhere that the "one-year" rule is all about NBA teams not wanting to babysit high schoolers, but is a kid with one season of college really
that much more prepared for the pros than a high schooler? Were Derrick Favors and Xavier Henry and Jrue Holiday and Byron Mullens more NBA-ready players because of they spent seven months in college?
Perhaps a better example would be an NHL model. You draft a kid when he's 18 and retain his rights even if he goes to college, for at least two years. In the case of college players, rights are retained for 30 days after they leave college.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2013, 10:51:05 AM
When you're running a business in a free country you weigh the risk/reward of the decisions you make and act accordingly. Make good decisions, you prosper. Poor ones, you fail. Now I get why the NBA doesn't want it to be a free country, but telling adults they're not allowed to play in the NBA because the people in charge would make foolish decisions and hurt their own product is unfair.
Unless you are a bank. ;D
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 13, 2013, 10:54:21 AM
Noel could purchased an insurance policy to protect him in case of injury.
What would a policy like that cost? You would be insuring for something that has a relatively high chance of occurring with a potential payout of millions of dollars.
I know that this example is incredibly simplified, but let's assume the actuaries determine that Noels has a 1% chance in any given year to suffer a career-ending injury, with a potential payout of $10 million if he does. Just to break even, the insurance company would have to charge $100,000 per year for that policy, right? What kid could afford that?
Quote from: warriorchick on February 13, 2013, 11:10:01 AM
What would a policy like that cost? You would be insuring for something that has a relatively high chance of occurring with a potential payout of millions of dollars.
I know that this example is incredibly simplified, but let's assume the actuaries determine that Noels has a 1% chance in any given year to suffer a career-ending injury, with a potential payout of $10 million if he does. Just to break even, the insurance company would have to charge $100,000 per year for that policy, right? What kid could afford that?
Football players do it all the time. Besides, Kentucky alums are loaded.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2013, 10:51:05 AM
When you're running a business in a free country you weigh the risk/reward of the decisions you make and act accordingly. Make good decisions, you prosper. Poor ones, you fail. Now I get why the NBA doesn't want it to be a free country, but telling adults they're not allowed to play in the NBA because the people in charge would make foolish decisions and hurt their own product is unfair.
On the other hand, in this particular free country we have a long (and lawful) tradition of collective bargaining between labor and management that allows them to determine the terms of employment in a manner that, ideally, is beneficial to each side.
It may or may not be fair, but it has nothing to do with being in a free country. And it's hardly unique to the NBA. Try finding work as a construction laborer with the "free country" argument.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 13, 2013, 10:54:21 AM
Noel could purchased an insurance policy to protect him in case of injury.
I was scrolling through waiting for someone to bring this up. Best response here. Do the smart thing and buy insurance. While you can debate his future earnings potential vs liability of the coverage, this is all that needs to be pointed out, end of discussion.
AnotherMU84 loves this stuff.
1) The sport of football will fold. It's too dangerous.
2) Noel got hurt so the NBA will change a draft rule.
3) Ancient aliens built everything on this planet.
4) The ACC will implode, ND will move to the C7 and become the greatest conference in the history of the earth.
Regarding Noel, how about the NCAA (and maybe the NBA) move the bottom of the basket further away from the baseline? It was the second injury in as many weeks due to the base of the rim interfering. Maybe they will look into it. Then again, maybe they'll think it isnt a problem because injuries from it are so infrequent. For change to happen, it typically takes a hell of a lot more problems to occur than just one or two or three...
Quote from: honkytonk on February 13, 2013, 11:25:45 AM
AnotherMU84 loves this stuff.
1) The sport of football will fold. It's too dangerous.
2) Noel got hurt so the NBA will change a draft rule.
3) Ancient aliens built everything on this planet.
4) The ACC will implode, ND will move to the C7 and become the greatest conference in the history of the earth.
Regarding Noel, how about the NCAA (and maybe the NBA) move the bottom of the basket further away from the baseline? It was the second injury in as many weeks due to the base of the rim interfering. Maybe they will look into it. Then again, maybe they'll think it isnt a problem because injuries from it are so infrequent. For change to happen, it typically takes a hell of a lot more problems to occur than just one or two or three...
Hey hey hey ... ancient aliens only built the pyramids. They brought humans to their planet and trained them to build everything else.
Get your facts straight!
Quote from: warriorchick on February 13, 2013, 11:10:01 AM
What would a policy like that cost? You would be insuring for something that has a relatively high chance of occurring with a potential payout of millions of dollars.
I know that this example is incredibly simplified, but let's assume the actuaries determine that Noels has a 1% chance in any given year to suffer a career-ending injury, with a potential payout of $10 million if he does. Just to break even, the insurance company would have to charge $100,000 per year for that policy, right? What kid could afford that?
Well, that's not really how insurance rates are determined, but regardless ... the chance of a suffering a career-ending injury are far smaller than 1 percent. How many top prospects can you name who suffered a career-ending injury in college? Even guys like Willis McGahee went on to earn tens of millions of dollars after suffering devastating injuries in college. A guy like Eric LeGrand (who probably wasn't a top prospect, regardless) is more like 1 in 100,000.
Any chance that this injury (assuming it is as bad as the media is assuming) causes Noel to return to UK? And, if his injury causes UK to miss the tourney, do others return to boost their draft stock.
What I'm asking is Cal expects a certain number to leave or he is over-signed. Does the Noel injury increase the chance that UK winds up over-signed and someone has to be sent packing?
Added
UK has 13 scholarship players (maximum allowed). Only 2 are seniors (Beckham and Mays). UK has signed 6 players already for next year (Harrison twins, Young, Johnson, Lee and Willis) and have three more still considering (Wiggins, Randle and Gordon).
So, UK is over-signed by at least 4.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 13, 2013, 11:30:45 AM
Well, that's not really how insurance rates are determined, but regardless ... the chance of a suffering a career-ending injury are far smaller than 1 percent. How many top prospects can you name who suffered a career-ending injury in college? Even guys like Willis McGahee went on to earn tens of millions of dollars after suffering devastating injuries in college. A guy like Eric LeGrand (who probably wasn't a top prospect, regardless) is more like 1 in 100,000.
Perhaps "career-ending" was a poor word choice. How about "career-affecting"? How often does it happen that college players suffer injuries that knock at least $10 million off their lifetime career-earning potential? A few times a year? That's a lot when you consider that realistically, the number of kids coming out of college every year that could have even a chance to earn that kind of money is fewer than 50.
And speaking of that, you'd have to bump the premium up further to account for the endless litigation costs that would occur while determining the amount of the loss involved, because the number would be almost 100% subjective unless the guy got the injury after his NBA contract was drawn up, but before he had a chance to sign it. Midway through freshman year? The insurance company is going to say the guy was an overrated stiff, and the player's attorney is going to say he would have been the next Michael Jordan.
Again, I admit my example was extremely simplified, but does anyone have real examples of what these types of insurance policies would cost?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 13, 2013, 11:08:00 AM
Unless you are a bank. ;D
A BIG bank. The little guys failed.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 11:35:41 AM
Any chance that this injury (assuming it is as bad as the media is assuming) causes Noel to return to UK? And, if his injury causes UK to miss the tourney, do others return to boost their draft stock.
What I'm asking is Cal expects a certain number to leave or he is over-signed. Does the Noel injury increase the chance that UK winds up over-signed and someone has to be sent packing?
Added
UK has 13 scholarship players (maximum allowed). Only 2 are seniors (Beckham and Mays). UK has signed 6 players already for next year (Harrison twins, Young, Johnson, Lee and Willis) and have three more still considering (Wiggins, Randle and Gordon).
So, UK is over-signed by at least 4.
Noel is more likely to go now - don't want to risk further injury when there are millions on the table. Poythress and Goodwin are gone too. I believe they also have 1-2 walk-ons who were given schollies for this season.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 13, 2013, 11:07:37 AM
I can see a couple of benefits for the NBA:
- it lessens the need for them to draft solely on potential. The high schoolers you'll see them drafting early will be kids they're confident can play right away and have obvious NBA skills. Guys like LeBron, Rose, Dwight Howard, etc. Otherwise, they won't draft less-than sure things players who have options.
- It forces most players to develop for three years in college, giving NBA teams a better read on their abilities and allowing them to enter the league more "NBA-ready." It's been said here and elsewhere that the "one-year" rule is all about NBA teams not wanting to babysit high schoolers, but is a kid with one season of college really that much more prepared for the pros than a high schooler? Were Derrick Favors and Xavier Henry and Jrue Holiday and Byron Mullens more NBA-ready players because of they spent seven months in college?
Perhaps a better example would be an NHL model. You draft a kid when he's 18 and retain his rights even if he goes to college, for at least two years. In the case of college players, rights are retained for 30 days after they leave college.
I see where you are going, but if I was an NBA owner, my response would be:
"We can hardly run our own league (referees on the take, off the court issues for players and coaches, small markets struggling for revenue, etc. etc.). I don't think taking on MORE infrastructure is a good idea for this league. Make the college rule a 3 year minimum. If HS kids skip college and go to Europe for 3 years, even better for us... it will allow us to evaluate Euro-talent vs American talent. I don't want the headache of trying to support and run an entire minor league system. The D-league is one thing, but trying to actually cultivate a viable minor league is a LARGE undertaking."
I know there is potential with what you are saying, but for right now, I would be frightened to extend that infrastructure. Let colleges and Europeans worry about that stuff.
It's the same reason most entry level office jobs require a college degree. I don't think I actually used my degree in my first 2 years of working in an office, but I needed it to get in the door.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 13, 2013, 11:57:00 AM
Perhaps "career-ending" was a poor word choice. How about "career-affecting"? How often does it happen that college players suffer injuries that knock at least $10 million off their lifetime career-earning potential? A few times a year? That's a lot when you consider that realistically, the number of kids coming out of college every year that could have even a chance to earn that kind of money is fewer than 50.
And speaking of that, you'd have to bump the premium up further to account for the endless litigation costs that would occur while determining the amount of the loss involved, because the number would be almost 100% subjective unless the guy got the injury after his NBA contract was drawn up, but before he had a chance to sign it. Midway through freshman year? The insurance company is going to say the guy was an overrated stiff, and the player's attorney is going to say he would have been the next Michael Jordan.
Again, I admit my example was extremely simplified, but does anyone have real examples of what these types of insurance policies would cost?
Some of the reasons you cite above are why insurers wouldn't issue any kind of policy other than one for a definite career-ending injury. A real-life example of this being discussed right now is with Jadeveon Clowney, who's seeking insurance to play in college next year knowing that he'll almost certainly be the first pick of the 2014 NFL Draft.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 13, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
Some of the reasons you cite above are why insurers wouldn't issue any kind of policy other than one for a definite career-ending injury. A real-life example of this being discussed right now is with Jadeveon Clowney, who's seeking insurance to play in college next year knowing that he'll almost certainly be the first pick of the 2014 NFL Draft.
Colt McCoy is the first name that popped into my head while reading this thread. I'm sure there have been others. The trick is obviously having the capital to foot the premiums for a year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4356869
Quote from: Pakuni on February 13, 2013, 12:08:22 PM
Some of the reasons you cite above are why insurers wouldn't issue any kind of policy other than one for a definite career-ending injury. A real-life example of this being discussed right now is with Jadeveon Clowney, who's seeking insurance to play in college next year knowing that he'll almost certainly be the first pick of the 2014 NFL Draft.
Any guy named Jadeveon Clowney has to play college hoops long enough to make The Poll. Just sayin'.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 13, 2013, 12:04:01 PM
I see where you are going, but if I was an NBA owner, my response would be:
"We can hardly run our own league (referees on the take, off the court issues for players and coaches, small markets struggling for revenue, etc. etc.). I don't think taking on MORE infrastructure is a good idea for this league. Make the college rule a 3 year minimum. If HS kids skip college and go to Europe for 3 years, even better for us... it will allow us to evaluate Euro-talent vs American talent. I don't want the headache of trying to support and run an entire minor league system. The D-league is one thing, but trying to actually cultivate a viable minor league is a LARGE undertaking."
I know there is potential with what you are saying, but for right now, I would be frightened to extend that infrastructure. Let colleges and Europeans worry about that stuff.
It's the same reason most entry level office jobs require a college degree. I don't think I actually used my degree in my first 2 years of working in an office, but I needed it to get in the door.
The owners wouldn't necessarily have to take on the infrastructure, or at least not much of it. Minor league baseball and hockey teams, and their infrastructures, are very rarely owned (if ever ... can't think of an example, though there may be one) by the MLB/NHL affiliates. The MLB/NHL teams just provide the players and, in MLB's case, the coaches. The stadiums, travel costs, non-player personnel, etc., are all funded by the team's ownership, not the affiliate. And given the explosion of minor-league sports over the past couple decades, I think the NBA could find enough owners to set up a developmental league that costs them little more than lending their name to it.
I'm not saying it'll happen, or that there aren't good reasons for NBA owners to prefer their current set up, but I think there are clear benefits and it could be done with it becoming a WNBA-like financial drain.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2013, 11:59:47 AM
A BIG bank. The little guys failed.
So Lehman Brothers is, er, uh, WAS, a "little" bank?
Quote from: MUDish on February 13, 2013, 11:15:47 AM
I was scrolling through waiting for someone to bring this up. Best response here. Do the smart thing and buy insurance. While you can debate his future earnings potential vs liability of the coverage, this is all that needs to be pointed out, end of discussion.
Couldn't disagree more. As warriorchick brought up - you're telling an 18 year old to buy insurance on
an asset he isnt permitted to make the money on that would be required to pay the premium. Far from being end of story, it's a non-starter.
Noel is officially done for the season...ACL
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8944097/nerlens-noel-kentucky-wildcats-torn-acl-for-season
Quote from: Bocephys on February 13, 2013, 12:13:02 PM
Colt McCoy is the first name that popped into my head while reading this thread. I'm sure there have been others. The trick is obviously having the capital to foot the premiums for a year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4356869
From the article:
Quote"The premium is astronomical," said Brad McCoy. "But the payback in the event of a catastrophe puts the monetary value there. We felt it was the prudent thing to do."
Point proven. 99% of the players would have no way to legally obtain this insurance. Colt is just lucky he has a rich Texas daddy.
Why does this argument only apply to basketball? When Marcus Lattimore completely destroyed his knee in every sense of the word, no one was calling for a rule change. Football players have to wait 2 years. I can see basketball doing that too. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal for basketball when literally the same exact thing happened in football.
Quote from: setyoursightsnorth on February 13, 2013, 02:19:22 PM
Why does this argument only apply to basketball? When Marcus Lattimore completely destroyed his knee in every sense of the word, no one was calling for a rule change. Football players have to wait 2 years 3 years. I can see basketball doing that too. I just don't understand why this is such a big deal for basketball when literally the same exact thing happened in football.
Fixed.
It was somewhat discussed when Lattimore was injured, but more in the vein of paying athletes than how soon they could turn pro.
And it's fair to point out that there are good reasons to keep kids from jumping from high school to the NFL that don't exist when talking about a similar jump to the NBA.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 13, 2013, 10:54:21 AM
Noel could purchased an insurance policy to protect him in case of injury.
Exactly. He's insured:
John Calipari @UKCoachCalipari
The good news is he is insured, so he would have been fine even if the injury would have been worse.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 13, 2013, 10:38:25 AM
I think there are sort of 2 conversations going on:
From a private business perspective, the NBA's rule is wise, and honestly, they should make it 2 or 3 years. Why not let guys develop in their skills in college and build a fan following before they enter the NBA? A TON of entry level jobs require a college degree, even if said degree isn't really applicable to the job role. The NBA is doing the same thing.
David Stern has repeatedly said he would like the rule to be 2 years at least. But he does not have the authority to unilaterally make it so. This is a collectively bargained issue. The NBAPA didn't want it to be 2 years and owners did not feel strongly enough about it to scuttle a CBA that almost didn't happen.
There is not enough feeling about this issue by either side to reopen the CBA. So we can keep this thread going for 100 more pages and every blogger on every Web site and every columnist at every newspaper can pontificate about it ...
But it ain't gonna change.
Apparently the NCAA already makes up to $5 million in career-ending injury insurance available and premiums can be financed through a low-interest loan.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/13/ncaa-makes-5-million-in-insurance-availabl/
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2013, 02:57:43 PM
David Stern has repeatedly said he would like the rule to be 2 years at least. But he does not have the authority to unilaterally make it so. This is a collectively bargained issue. The NBAPA didn't want it to be 2 years and owners did not feel strongly enough about it to scuttle a CBA that almost didn't happen.
There is not enough feeling about this issue by either side to reopen the CBA. So we can keep this thread going for 100 more pages and every blogger on every Web site and every columnist at every newspaper can pontificate about it ...
But it ain't gonna change.
Well, in my mind, the only way it would change would be to make the college rule longer.
I envision a lot of headaches and not a lot to gain by the NBA starting a true minor league.
However, it would be interesting if they made the draft 3 rounds, and could draft kids out of highschool and retain their rights until the player comes out of school. Happens a lot in hockey. In fact, guys turn pro right after the college season and go right into the AHL/NHL.
Imagine this: A player goes through March madness and emerges as a star. His rights are already owned by a middle of the pack NBA team. He immediately goes to that team and leads them deep into the playoffs.
ESPN would KILL for a story like that.
Also, this type of system might put more of an emphasis of smart drafting and development vs signing free agents. It might help some small market teams if they get the timing right.
With all of this said, it introduces NBA scouts into High Schools again, which I know the NBA wasn't in love with. Plus, we know college ball can already be a little sleezy. Add in agents trying to get kids to sign, and see what happens.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 13, 2013, 01:10:37 PM
Couldn't disagree more. As warriorchick brought up - you're telling an 18 year old to buy insurance on an asset he isnt permitted to make the money on that would be required to pay the premium. Far from being end of story, it's a non-starter.
Umm, you realize he was insured, right? Like I said, end of story, he was smart enough to get himself insured, very smart.
The NBA pushed for 2 years when the last CBA was negotiated. The players' union pushed for no limit. They "settled" for the one year rule. Standard negotiating procedure. The NBA KNEW they werent going to get 2 years. Thats fine.
Noel's injury shouldnt change anything. At least I hope not. Any rule change would be nothing more than a knee-jerk reaction to ONE player's injury.
Replay in baseball took more than one foul ball. The age limit in the nba took more than one high school bust that got drafted. The NFL's player safety initiatives took a hell of a lot more than one players' health record. Nothing will change because one player got hurt.
Jeff Goodman tweeted that he's talked to a few NBA GMs today and they still think he'll get drafted anywhere from 1-5 if he leaves early
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 13, 2013, 12:00:10 PM
Noel is more likely to go now - don't want to risk further injury when there are millions on the table. Poythress and Goodwin are gone too. I believe they also have 1-2 walk-ons who were given schollies for this season.
As was noted above, Noels has an ACL tear. That is a year to recover (see Derek Rose). So if you draft him as is, without any workouts, it is a pure guess as to how good an NBA player he might be. Maybe starts playing for you around the all-star break next year.
If he was a top 5 draft pick before the injury (and maybe #1), what is he now? mid round 1? Lower round 1? Still top 5? Still a potential #1?
Remember the Illini guard Dee Brown? He lead them to a final four and then broke his foot in pre-draft camp. Opted to return to UofI for another year.
Will Noel consider doing the same? Come back to UK next year for the final 10 games and the tourney and then into the draft? Might mean more money if he can move up 10 to 15 draft spots.
Quote from: cbowe3 on February 13, 2013, 04:41:15 PM
Jeff Goodman tweeted that he's talked to a few NBA GMs today and they still think he'll get drafted anywhere from 1-5 if he leaves early
Of course he will. Now, maybe Im surprised he would still go in the top 5...but I fully expect that he is still a lottery pick. Just because he got hurt doesnt mean that the draft this June suddenly became strong in terms of immediate impact talent. Noel was going to take time to develop anyways; he is very limited offensively.
Its strange to me that some people think he might actually come back to college for another year. Why? ....To potentially get injured again without a guaranteed NBA contract? LOL.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 11:29:39 AM
Hey hey hey ... ancient aliens only built the pyramids. They brought humans to their planet and trained them to build everything else.
Get your facts straight!
Wrong. The aliens mated with humans, thereby injecting their superior genetics into the human DNA pool. Through that magnanimous act came such wonders as the Great Wall of China, the Taj Mahal, the Panama Canal, the Astrodome, single malt scotch, Cuban-produced Cohibas, bratwurst, and thong underwear.
Get your facts straight!!
Quote from: keefe on February 13, 2013, 04:59:39 PM
Wrong. The aliens mated with humans, thereby injecting their superior genetics into the human DNA pool. Through that magnanimous act came such wonders as the Great Wall of China, the Taj Mahal, the Panama Canal, the Astrodome, single malt scotch, Cuban-produced Cohibas, bratwurst, and thong underwear.
Get your facts straight!!
Can any of those Alien/Human hybrids make it past the NCAA clearinghouse to give MU a better outside shooting presence?
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
As was noted above, Noels has an ACL tear. That is a year to recover (see Derek Rose). So if you draft him as is, without any workouts, it is a pure guess as to how good an NBA player he might be. Maybe starts playing for you around the all-star break next year.
If he was a top 5 draft pick before the injury (and maybe #1), what is he now? mid round 1? Lower round 1? Still top 5? Still a potential #1?
Remember the Illini guard Dee Brown? He lead them to a final four and then broke his foot in pre-draft camp. Opted to return to UofI for another year.
Will Noel consider doing the same? Come back to UK next year for the final 10 games and the tourney and then into the draft? Might mean more money if he can move up 10 to 15 draft spots.
A couple things here ...
Rose's injury was torn ACL
and MCL. Pretty big difference. It won't be easy for Noel, and I certainly don't know about either his work habits or the rest of his health, but lots of guys come back from torn ACL in less than a year. Adrian Peterson came back in much less than a year and almost set the NFL rushing record, for cripe's sake.
If, indeed, it's "just" a torn ACL, he still will be a top-5 pick, probably still has a shot at going No. 1.
Dee Brown? Please. He never was first-round material. He was a 6-foot (very generously listed) shooting guard with a mediocre jumper (42% overall, 36% arc) and the worst finishing touch around the rim I have
ever seen in a supposed star. The best thing to happen to him was that injury because it forced him to return for his senior season, get his degree and let him prove he could play PG. That at least helped him get drafted in the second round and hang around the NBA for a couple of years.
If you're going to compare Noel to an injured guard, Kyrie Irving is a much better comparison. Foot injury limited him to 11 games at Duke, he still went pro and he still was the No. 1 overall pick. Not a perfect comparison, though, because his foot injury probably wasn't considered as serious as Noel's knee injury.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
As was noted above, Noels has an ACL tear. That is a year to recover (see Derek Rose). So if you draft him as is, without any workouts, it is a pure guess as to how good an NBA player he might be. Maybe starts playing for you around the all-star break next year.
If he was a top 5 draft pick before the injury (and maybe #1), what is he now? mid round 1? Lower round 1? Still top 5? Still a potential #1?
See what Goodman reported above. An ACL tear no longer is seen as a career-ending, or even necessarily career-altering (other than missed time) injury. Adrian Peterson just won the NFL MVP award and nearly set the league's rushing record less than a year after suffering an ACL tear.
Quote from: lab_warrior on February 13, 2013, 12:30:56 PM
So Lehman Brothers is, er, uh, WAS, a "little" bank?
They were so rapacious that it was impossible to overlook their excesses. Had they been more 'subdued' in developing new products for their home mortgage product line they would have been bailed out.
I saw them in action in the Soros-triggered Asian currency crisis in the late '90's. It started with a run on the Thai Baht, spread to the Korean Won and then ripped through ASEAN with a vengeance. The ID Rupiah went from Rp2,000:USD1 to Rp20,000:USD1 within 3 months. A correction was necessary but to that degree? The resulting liquidity crisis triggered demand for hard currency which put virtually every asset in SE Asia (ex- Malaysia) into play. GE Cap was working diligently with IMF & World Bank to restructure debt but a couple firms, with Lehman in the vanguard, were undermining those efforts through predatory practices. Steven Marks and I met with the head of Lehman at the Mercantile Club in Jakarta and asked for them to back off to give some of the reforms a chance to take effect. Soharto had already been removed from power and we had recovered almost all of the assets that had been controlled by the former First Family. Lehman basically wanted a check for $250MM in exchange for them staying out of Indonesia. You had a nation of 220 million flat on its back and these guys wanted only to stick the knife deeper. Remember that Lehman wasn't a corporation; it was a partnership model that umbrella branded hundreds of individual businesses. Still, when they went tits up in '08 I was in Iraq and I had the fighter doc issue me a snort of medicinal scotch to celebrate their demise. Biggest cock suckers I have ever met.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 05:04:11 PM
Can any of those Alien/Human hybrids make it past the NCAA clearinghouse to give MU a better outside shooting presence?
After inventing the thong they have nothing left to give and are now struggling with the SAT
Quote from: MU82 on February 13, 2013, 05:05:38 PM
If you're going to compare Noel to an injured guard, Kyrie Irving is a much better comparison. Foot injury limited him to 11 games at Duke, he still went pro and he still was the No. 1 overall pick. Not a perfect comparison, though, because his foot injury probably wasn't considered as serious as Noel's knee injury.
Irving was injured at the
beginning of the season. He managed to return during the tourney and scored 28 points in his last game for the Blue Devils. The point is he was healed and able to workout and run drills for teams so they could judge his physical abilities.
Noel will barely be able to walk properly by the time workouts start in April. Teams will not be able to assess first hand his physical abilities. That makes him a risk in that you're drafting an unknown ... unless you want to call Calpari and believe everything he tells you.
What Adrian Peterson did was nothing short of a medical miracle. When did his recovery period become the standard?
Saying Peterson is the standard is liking saying all MU grads that do not make more than $1 million/year are losers.
Changing the NBA rule just for Noels would be, well, a bad knee-jerk reaction.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
As was noted above, Noels has an ACL tear. That is a year to recover (see Derek Rose). So if you draft him as is, without any workouts, it is a pure guess as to how good an NBA player he might be. Maybe starts playing for you around the all-star break next year.
Not always. ACL tear can have a recovery less than that. Depends on severity of injury and what else was injured.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 13, 2013, 07:19:30 PM
Changing the NBA rule just for Noels would be, well, a bad knee-jerk reaction.
That's often the remedy for some...until they realize the law of unintended consequences and then screw it up even more. It's an American tradition.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
If he was a top 5 draft pick before the injury (and maybe #1), what is he now? mid round 1? Lower round 1? Still top 5? Still a potential #1?
My thought would be that it wouldn't change his draft number too much. With the layout of the NBA right now, there is no quick turn around for the teams that will be picking that high, and not having him right away for his rookie season won't be a huge deterrent.
Some good NBA players who recovered well from ACL tears.... Kyle Lowery, David West, Al Jefferson, Jamal Crawford.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on February 13, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
My thought would be that it wouldn't change his draft number too much. With the layout of the NBA right now, there is no quick turn around for the teams that will be picking that high, and not having him right away for his rookie season won't be a huge deterrent.
Some good NBA players who recovered well from ACL tears.... Kyle Lowery, David West, Al Jefferson, Jamal Crawford.
Agreed. He'll still go top 5, likely top 3. A vast majority of the time, when a team drafts a one-and-done guy, they're not expecting any significant contributions for 2-3 years anyway, especially from a big man. He's 19-years-old and if a team believes that he really is going to be the next Mutombo or Parish or whatever great he's being compared to, it'll be worth the wait.
@darrenrovell
Source: Nerlens Noel has a $10 million permanent total disability policy thru Lloyd's of London. Would have to be career ending to collect.
@darrenrovell
NCAA will only loan high-profile student-athletes premiums up to $5M, but if you go outside the NCAA, you can get the $10M that Noel did.
@darrenrovell
Noel's $10M insurance policy would cover his first 3 years of NBA earnings, since $ is tax free. Would have to never play again.
Reported today that RGIII may start the September opener for the Redskins, despite a torn LCL and ACL.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 14, 2013, 01:40:18 PM
@darrenrovell
Source: Nerlens Noel has a $10 million permanent total disability policy thru Lloyd's of London. Would have to be career ending to collect.
@darrenrovell
NCAA will only loan high-profile student-athletes premiums up to $5M, but if you go outside the NCAA, you can get the $10M that Noel did.
@darrenrovell
Noel's $10M insurance policy would cover his first 3 years of NBA earnings, since $ is tax free. Would have to never play again.
Who is paying the premium on this? And if it's not Nerlins Noel, I am not 100% sure the money would be tax-free to him.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on February 13, 2013, 07:01:22 PM
Irving was injured at the beginning of the season. He managed to return during the tourney and scored 28 points in his last game for the Blue Devils. The point is he was healed and able to workout and run drills for teams so they could judge his physical abilities.
Noel will barely be able to walk properly by the time workouts start in April. Teams will not be able to assess first hand his physical abilities. That makes him a risk in that you're drafting an unknown ... unless you want to call Calpari and believe everything he tells you.
What Adrian Peterson did was nothing short of a medical miracle. When did his recovery period become the standard?
Saying Peterson is the standard is liking saying all MU grads that do not make more than $1 million/year are losers.
My bad on Irving comparison. I totally forgot he came back at season's end.
And yes I realize Peterson's case was amazing, to be able to perform as well as he did as soon after surgery. But as I and others have said, many, many athletes come back from an ACL at full speed far sooner than a year. It wasn't a multiple (with MCL or LCL) and who knows the severity of it, Noel's work habits, Noel's mental state, etc.
Quote from: MU82 on February 14, 2013, 01:59:42 PM
My bad on Irving comparison. I totally forgot he came back at season's end.
And yes I realize Peterson's case was amazing, to be able to perform as well as he did as soon after surgery. But as I and others have said, many, many athletes come back from an ACL at full speed far sooner than a year. It wasn't a multiple (with MCL or LCL) and who knows the severity of it, Noel's work habits, Noel's mental state, etc.
I'm not doubting Noel can return to full health. The problem is NBA GMs and scouts cannot call him in for workouts because of this injury. His physical abilities will be based on legend, talks with Calpari and watching video. Historically this is how NBA teams make bad draft choices. Therefore, he becomes an unknown and a big risk. For a struggling franchise, if Noel is over-hyped and they take him in the first five picks, he can really set them back.
Forget Calipari, GM's should just ax Crean.
Quote from: warriorchick on February 14, 2013, 01:49:12 PM
Who is paying the premium on this? And if it's not Nerlins Noel, I am not 100% sure the money would be tax-free to him.
And now I'll come back to the conversation. As with any insurance policy you (the insured) pay the premiums on, the proceeds are tax free. The only time proceeds are not tax free (in some cases) is when when an employer/3rd party pays for them since that is a tax deductible expense to the organization. An example of this could be employer provided disability insurance or some life insurance contracts that are owned by the business for the benefit of the business (used to fund exec benefits or buyouts). So again, if someone has a billing account in his name, it is 100% tax free.