http://hoyatalk2.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=26638
Was reading the Hoya's message board and ran across this guy complaining about Buzz's demeanor. I'm a homer, so I'm not going to notice it, but it struck me that this guy seems to hate Buzz as much as I hate Boheim's whiny face :)
To the folks that spend more time on other sites, is this a consensus? Do we care?
WVU had slight dislike for him. Wiscy dislikes him less than they disliked Crean. L-ville respects him. If I was a fan of another team, I would probably dislike him. Heck, I will probably point out his flaws when he leaves to coach somewhere else. And then get criticized for it.
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2013, 08:37:10 AM
WVU had slight dislike for him. Wiscy dislikes him less than they disliked Crean. L-ville respects him. If I was a fan of another team, I would probably dislike him. Heck, I will probably point out his flaws when he leaves to coach somewhere else. And then get criticized for it.
Wait ... Buzz has flaws?
He's an opposing coach. They're not supposed to like him.
How many opposing coaches do you really like?
Of teams we face regularly, I can pretty much say Jay Wright is really the only one I like. And even he bugs me sometimes.
Quote from: tower912 on February 12, 2013, 08:37:10 AM
WVU had slight dislike for him. Wiscy dislikes him less than they disliked Crean. L-ville respects him. If I was a fan of another team, I would probably dislike him. Heck, I will probably point out his flaws when he leaves to coach somewhere else. And then get criticized for it.
Funny how flaws can only be talked about when they leave. :-\ But you are right, if you point them out now, you certainly will get criticized so best to wait when he leaves.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 12, 2013, 09:44:40 AM
Funny how flaws can only be talked about when they leave. :-\ But you are right, if you point them out now, you certainly will get criticized so best to wait when he leaves.
You're the new standard bearer of objectivity here, nice to see. I certainly don't remember that attitude from you during TC's final years at MU, but I guess people change.
Well, he called a timeout while standing in practically the center court tip-off circle last night. That would annoy me if it was the coach of another team. He strays so far from the coach's box so consistently that I wonder how he gets away with it. I only get to see a few games live a year and it always strikes me how far onto the court he strays. I've never noticed any other coaches doing that.
I would hate Buzz if I were opposing fan and that is part of his appeal. The guy is off his rocker, always on the court, flashy dresser and intense. IMO all things I hate about an opposing coach. This fan hopes every non MU fan gets pissed at him.
Chicos, I have pulled up threads from as far back as 2006 where I criticized Crean's in game work. If jsonline still had their old bulletin boards, I could go back further. I liked Crean. I thought he was a decent overall coach but that he had flaws. Recruiting bigs and in-game adjustments were two while he was at MU. I have been consistent since he left that I thought he would be able to do better in recruiting at IU than he did at MU. And I have been consistent wondering if he was going to be able to coach them up.
And you have consistently defended him to the hilt, which is your right.
I think I am going to use the ignore button as my lenten resolution.
Quote from: Goose on February 12, 2013, 10:03:37 AM
I would hate Buzz if I were opposing fan and that is part of his appeal. The guy is off his rocker, always on the court, flashy dresser and intense. IMO all things I hate about an opposing coach. This fan hopes every non MU fan gets pissed at him.
Correct.
If Buzz coached Louisville we'd all loathe him.
If Pitino coached Marquette, we'd love him. And Karen Cypher would be an evil succubus.
Marquette AND Celtic fans wouldn't love him.
Kentucky fans would continue to loathe him even more and dissect his every move.
I hate every other coach from any team that beats us, I'm cool with the ones that suck ;)
They hated Al too.
Some teams get fired up by coaching technicals. Players feel he is fighting for them. This is NOT one of those teams. Buzz should know that about HIS team and watch his emotions.
Quote from: jsglow on February 12, 2013, 12:15:22 PM
They hated Al too.
Everyone hated Al!
Except, of course, Marquette fans.
As Al himself once said, "Teams reflect their coach. Mine are arrogant and obnoxious!"
In most cases they only hate you if you are great. Hope Buzz gets there!
Quote from: Goose on February 12, 2013, 01:00:13 PM
In most cases they only hate you if you are great. Hope Buzz gets there!
Mike Deane must have been one of the All-Time Greats then
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 12, 2013, 12:59:19 PM
Everyone hated Al!
Except, of course, Marquette fans.
As Al himself once said, "Teams reflect their coach. Mine are arrogant and obnoxious!"
When you consistently beat people it engenders anger and envy. If you're funnier, smarter and all around cooler than the other guy while doing it you get more of the same. So naturally opponent's fan bases didn't much like Al when he was coaching. Once he stopped, the world discovered what MU fans already knew and he became beloved by nearly all who love college basketball.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2013, 10:09:37 AM
When you consistently beat people it engenders anger and envy. If you're funnier, smarter and all around cooler than the other guy while doing it you get more of the same. So naturally opponent's fan bases didn't much like Al when he was coaching. Once he stopped, the world discovered what MU fans already knew and he became beloved by nearly all who love college basketball.
I'm not convinced Al was actually "hated." Among his peers he was very much respected. Dean Smith called Al about Boylan. Wooden backed off Alfred Lee when he was told Al really wanted him. And when Al stashed players at JC's everyone knew the score.
Al was universally (outside the South) admired for standing up to Rupp for being the racist bastard that he was. Arthur Schlesinger wrote in his Bobby Kennedy bio that in 1968 the only two white men who could walk the streets of Harlem safely were Bobby and Al. High praise.
Quote from: Goose on February 12, 2013, 10:03:37 AM
I would hate Buzz Al if I were opposing fan and that is part of his appeal. The guy is off his rocker, always on the court, flashy dresser and intense. IMO all things I hate about an opposing coach. This fan hopes every non MU fan gets pissed at him.
Quote from: keefe on February 13, 2013, 05:47:08 PM
I'm not convinced Al was actually "hated." Among his peers he was very much respected. Dean Smith called Al about Boylan. Wooden backed off Alfred Lee when he was told Al really wanted him. And when Al stashed players at JC's everyone knew the score.
Al was universally (outside the South) admired for standing up to Rupp for being the racist bastard that he was. Arthur Schlesinger wrote in his Bobby Kennedy bio that in 1968 the only two white men who could walk the streets of Harlem safely were Bobby and Al. High praise.
You're absolutely right about his peers. Ray Meyer loved Al in spite of losing 21 straight to him and Bobby Knight looked up to him, and Tark, too. Everybody but the Baron of Bigotry, and that because Al called him out on it.
When I spoke of people hating Al I meant other fan bases, not coaches.
Cue the picture of him getting flipped off by the Wisconsin fans while standing on the scorers table. Does that one ever get old?
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2013, 07:55:53 PM
Cue the picture of him getting flipped off by the Wisconsin fans while standing on the scorers table. Does that one ever get old?
That was Kerry and Kim Hughes' old man flip pin' Al off. One of my favorite pictures of all time.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 13, 2013, 08:01:38 PM
That was Kerry and Kim Hughes' old man flip pin' Al off. One of my favorite pictures of all time.
A classic that will never grow old
(http://bp3.blogger.com/_tFk9wtrDGZo/R-W7rVCX0cI/AAAAAAAAAyE/5jL5ywAgxEs/s1600/glennrocks+copy.jpg)
The photo that ran in the Milwaukee Journal actually blocked out the"we're #1" finger.
Buzz saw some of that at WVU last year.....
Quote from: tower912 on February 13, 2013, 08:18:14 PM
Buzz saw some of that at WVU last year.....
I always hated that WVU Hillbilly mascot. Even stranger was they had an infant dressed up in buckskins, too.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSY--PyRIVDO_UF2z5zVb6MmtKGpD7gLgw8woB3ygBqnjXpDun5Fg)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSdvW9vXT4LdJnEnyX9Dem6IZSGeYUgGUtoARxr7EAv4pXOkn1b_Q)
Quote from: keefe on February 13, 2013, 08:14:44 PM
A classic that will never grow old
(http://bp3.blogger.com/_tFk9wtrDGZo/R-W7rVCX0cI/AAAAAAAAAyE/5jL5ywAgxEs/s1600/glennrocks+copy.jpg)
God love him! We certainly did.
Al was a role model for the 1970s. Honorable and straightforward on the inside and crusty and obnoxious on the outside. We loved him because he was "our's." Much of the African American community loved him because Al didn't care less what your skin color was -- as long as you could play ball.
And anyone who stood up to Bigot Boy Rupp deserves a free sanctification and immediate pass to heaven. Maybe Al can throw him a cool drink from up where he is down to where Bigot Boy is. I suppose Bigot Boy needs it worse than Al does.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 13, 2013, 10:32:26 PM
God love him! We certainly did.
Al was a role model for the 1970s. Honorable and straightforward on the inside and crusty and obnoxious on the outside. We loved him because he was "our's." Much of the African American community loved him because Al didn't care less what your skin color was -- as long as you could play ball.
And anyone who stood up to Bigot Boy Rupp deserves a free sanctification and immediate pass to heaven. Maybe Al can throw him a cool drink from up where he is down to where Bigot Boy is. I suppose Bigot Boy needs it worse than Al does.
There is so much evidence of Al's compassion and humanity. When Chones was offered millions by the ABA Al went to his apartment late that night. He looked in Chones' fridge and saw that it was effectively empty. He then asked Chones if his widowed mother was still a minimum wage salad maker. When Chones nodded Al told him he had no choice but to take the money. Even though it destroyed Marquette's season and a huge shot at a national championship Al knew it was the right decision for a poor family. I am attaching a link on Chones that you must read but here are some nuggets:
Al McGuire, knowing full well the decision might cost him a championship season, insisted Jim Chones take a somewhat cruel mid-season offer from the Nets which disqualified Jim from finishing the season with the Warriors.
Sports Illustrated reported: 6′11″ Jim Chones . . . agreed to take $1.5 million in cash Thursday night from the ABA's New York Nets. Chones . . . unquestionably needs the money, since his father died two years ago and his mother has been supporting her five other children on a $1.85-per-hour job as a salad lady. But even in these turbulent days it is surprising for a college player to quit an undefeated team. . .
According to the Boston Globe, Al had no patience for people second guessing his player's lives and motives, whether it be the NBA or the NCAA:
. . . the NCAA committees [are] a waste of time . . . If they held the meetings in a tenement building in Brooklyn, I guarantee they would come up with solutions. (Source: The Boston Globe, March 26, 2000)
Telling Jim it would be no different than if he was injured, and telling the press that he looked into his own refrigerator and then Jim's and realized there was no decision to make, Al McGuire never once professed regret.
After playing ball for St Catherine's high school in Racine, Wisconsin, under John McGuire, the man credited with creating St. Cat's basketball powerhouse (Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Wisconsin, June 12, 2001), Jim headed for Marquette and the experience of his life, playing for a McGuire called Al. Jim, who lost his McGuires in the same sad year, held both in high esteem:
"He [John] was as great as any coach I had. It was funny that he and Al McGuire were both named McGuire, because they were the best coaches I ever had. I'll bet I had 20 to 25 coaches, and they got the most out of me. (John) was even-tempered, never swore . . .There was nothing fancy about him, but he played to win. He was a great strategist."
Coming from Chones, that was high praise. . . Among Chones' coaches were Lou Carnesecca, a former coaching legend at St. John's University, and Larry Brown, Bill Fitch and Gene Shue, all three of whom rank among the NBA's 10 winningest coaches. (Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Wisconsin, June 12, 2001)
Reflecting on Al's influence, Jim mused, "He was an example for my life."
Chones once said he had met only two color-blind people in his life: Dean Smith and Al McGuire.
And though Al's speech often teetered on the politically incorrect, there was no mistaking his pure intentions:
"We don't run a plantation here. I want and expect my players to get degrees, even if it takes more than four years."
http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1501
Al did have one condition, though, for giving his blessing to Chones' leaving for the ABA: he made Chones promise him and his mother that he would get his degree. Chones did fulfill that promise. If memory serves I believe he was graduated in the same year as one of his daughters.
Bobby Knight once reflected on the difference between Al and Rupp that, "Rupp saw a colored person. Al saw a man."
Al really was color blind and his ability to bring out the best in people was unreal. I love the quote from Knight, especially because of how much Al hated Rupp.
Quote from: keefe on February 13, 2013, 12:32:28 AM
Mike Deane must have been one of the All-Time Greats then
Along the same lines, Bobby Knight would say Steve Yoder (UW) is a great coach and just needs a few more years to turn things around. ;)
Quote from: Goose on February 14, 2013, 07:34:42 AM
Al really was color blind and his ability to bring out the best in people was unreal. I love the quote from Knight, especially because of how much Al hated Rupp.
Rupp was the ultimate racist, even making sure Kentucky's first African-American basketball player would be thrown out of school so that he could tell his followers, "See? I was right."
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 12, 2013, 09:57:47 AM
Well, he called a timeout while standing in practically the center court tip-off circle last night. That would annoy me if it was the coach of another team. He strays so far from the coach's box so consistently that I wonder how he gets away with it. I only get to see a few games live a year and it always strikes me how far onto the court he strays. I've never noticed any other coaches doing that.
Buzz did that because the refs weren't catching his timeout calls. They didn't leave him much choice in that instance.
Re. Buzz more frequent on-court appearances, what coach doesn't do that? There may be a few coaches that mostly sit in their seats but the vast majority spends quite a bit of time out of the coaches' box.
Quote from: slingkong on February 14, 2013, 02:48:17 PM
Buzz did that because the refs weren't catching his timeout calls. They didn't leave him much choice in that instance.
Re. Buzz more frequent on-court appearances, what coach doesn't do that? There may be a few coaches that mostly sit in their seats but the vast majority spends quite a bit of time out of the coaches' box.
True, most coaches go out of the box. Can't say I remember anyone being that far out of the box, though I'm sure it has happened.
Quote from: slingkong on February 14, 2013, 02:48:17 PM
Re. Buzz more frequent on-court appearances, what coach doesn't do that? There may be a few coaches that mostly sit in their seats but the vast majority spends quite a bit of time out of the coaches' box.
Yeah, Buzz is hardily the only coach to leave the box area. Since the refs rarely enforce it, the whole coaches' box thing is pretty stupid.
Quote from: RJax55 on February 14, 2013, 02:55:06 PM
Yeah, Buzz is hardily the only coach to leave the box area. Since the refs rarely enforce it, the whole coaches' box thing is pretty stupid.
Well...it's there for a reason
Quote from: keefe on February 14, 2013, 06:16:04 PM
Well...it's there for a reason
That may be so, but if there's no penalty for not following the rule, what's the point. Coaches are going to move around, an arbitrary line on the floor isn't going to stop them. Furthermore, a number of these ref crews struggle just to keep up with the game action. The last thing I would want to add is another variable they need to watch, especially one as inconsequential as seeing how far the coach is walking down the sidelines.
If he's leaving the box to be noticed as he's calling a time out, where's the harm?
Assuming he's not called for leaving the box, that is.....
Quote from: ecompt on February 14, 2013, 09:13:29 AM
Rupp was the ultimate racist, even making sure Kentucky's first African-American basketball player would be thrown out of school so that he could tell his followers, "See? I was right."
I had never heard that. Wow. That is just beyond cruel. What sort of twisted mind dreams up such an awful plot? Why mess with a young man in that way. I would love to hear the details of that story.
Buzz is certainly no Al. I don't understand his stupid and often negative quotes about his players. A coach should coach and not tell your players that they are bad. What's the point? Apparently one of Buzz's flaws is his immaturity and stupidity.