In fact, he's far from a nightmare...Juan "Pachin" Vicens was bestowed with the title as World's Best Basketball Player in 1959, at the World Championships.
I have read his bio on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vic%C3%A9ns) as well as other sites I have searched.
But I am frustrated and need your help.
Or should I say, the MU WIKI (http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/start) needs your help!
Many sites I have about read about Vicens state that he studied and/or played for Tex Winter at Marquette then followed him to KState. This would mean the years of 1950-51 and 1951-52. I cannot confirm that he played, but some articles I read (http://www.primerahora.com/noticia/baloncesto/accion_deportiva/el_legado_de_un_pequeno_gigante/27864) mentioned he studied at Marquette then followed Coach Winter to KSU.
I want to add him, but I cannot confirm he suited up for MU.
Now, he probably would not have been playing on the Varsity team so...
I need someone with a 1950-51 or 1951-52 program to confirm that he was even on the team.
This guy is Mr. Basketball...Puerto Rico's "Roberto Clemente de Baloncesto"...
It would be a great add to our WIKI as well as confirming an intriguing part of Marquette history. ;D
A resource I check sometimes for information like this is the Marquette Hilltop Yearbook digital archives online: http://digitalmarquette.cdmhost.com/HT/index.html
The 1951 yearbook talks about the basketball season and has pictures of each of the players (Vicens not listed) starting on page 194.
The 1952 yearbook goes over the basketball season amd also has pictures of each of the players starting on page 216. There is also a great picture of the whole team on 225. Still no mention of Vicens.
Also, a little correction on your facts... Tex Winter coached for MU between 1951 and 1953. Bill Chandler coached in the 1950-1951 season.
So I looked at the 1953 yearbook.. the basketball section there starts on page 228... on page 233 I found this gem of a tidbit: "The frosh posted a 9-0 record for the season. Advancing to the varsity's will be coach Jack Nagle's Pat O'Keefe, Pachin Vicens, Fred Schneider, Terry Rand, Don Metz, Don Bugalski, Bill Gruszecki and Ron Nickchevich." Jackpot! So he was a freshman in 1952-1953 and on the freshman squad that season.
Onto the 1954 yearbook... search for "vicens" returns no matches.. basketball section starts on page 220.. page 221 has player pics for each of the varsity players.. 226 has a team pic for the varsity squad.. no vicens anywhere in there.. :(
Next step would be to check to see if KSU has any similar resources.. I work with a couple die-hard wildcat fans so let me check with them today and see if they know of anything. If Vicens shows up in their 1954 season roster then you have a confirmation of your facts. But he did play for the freshman team.. qualifies for wiki mention - dunno? :-\
Butch Lee is the only PuertoRicanNightmare in my book...a nickname given to him by the great Al McGuire!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 22, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
Butch Lee is the only PuertoRicanNightmare in my book...a nickname given to him by the great Al McGuire!
Oh no! Not another nickname debate.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 22, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
Butch Lee is the only PuertoRicanNightmare in my book...a nickname given to him by the great Al McGuire!
Thanks,
Spiral! I think he DOES count as an asterisk. He was at K-State from 54-56, so he must have been at MU from 52-54.
PRN, whether you like to admit it or not, Vicens was probably a huge reason why Butch came to Marquette (besides Al being a New Yorker). I remember some freshmen classmates who were from Puerto Rico and they said Butch Lee was the sh*t on the island.
I emailed the PRN. I'm hoping to hear from him.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 22, 2007, 08:28:46 AM
PRN, whether you like to admit it or not, Vicens was probably a huge reason why Butch came to Marquette (besides Al being a New Yorker). I remember some freshmen classmates who were from Puerto Rico and they said Butch Lee was the sh*t on the island.
You may be right, but wouldn't Butch Lee have been about 4 or 5 years old when Vicens attended MU?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 22, 2007, 08:36:09 AM
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 22, 2007, 08:28:46 AM
PRN, whether you like to admit it or not, Vicens was probably a huge reason why Butch came to Marquette (besides Al being a New Yorker). I remember some freshmen classmates who were from Puerto Rico and they said Butch Lee was the sh*t on the island.
You may be right, but wouldn't Butch Lee have been about 4 or 5 years old when Vicens attended MU?
True. But Alfred was 10 when the Puerto Rico basketball team won gold at the 1966 Caribbean and Central American games held in San Juan. And he was 16 when Vicens' home team, the Ponce Leons, renamed their arena after him. Both Vicens and Lee were associated later in life with the BSN (Puerto Rico's basketball league).
By the way, here's Alfred's numbers from the BSN. (http://www.bsnpr.com/jugadores/jugador.asp?id=59&e=)
EDIT: Question for you seasoned MU fans...was it divided up into a Freshman team, Sophomore team, and a Varsity team? Or Frosh/Soph (JV) team then a Varisty team?
spiral, thanks for posting that digital marquette link. i was able to find a picture of my grandparents, who both went to marquette, from the 1949 yearbook.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 22, 2007, 08:28:46 AM
Thanks, Spiral! I think he DOES count as an asterisk. He was at K-State from 54-56, so he must have been at MU from 52-54.
No problem. I don't think he was at MU from 53-54 just 52-53. There is no mention of him at all in the 54 yearbook. I somehow doubt it but was there an equivalent "transfers must sit out a year" rule back then? If so, that'd explain where he disappeared to.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 22, 2007, 08:44:24 AM
EDIT: Question for you seasoned MU fans...was it divided up into a Freshman team, Sophomore team, and a Varsity team? Or Frosh/Soph (JV) team then a Varisty team?
I might be wrong but the strong impression I was getting from reading the articles in the yearbooks was that during that time, there was a freshman team and then a varsity team (sophomores were on the varsity team). In fact, the 1954 yearbook actually has a one page article on freshman basketball immediately following the varsity basketball story (on page 227). A picture of the freshmen team is in there as well. There is no sophomore article (and further, Terry Rand, who was on the freshman team with Vicens the year before, played on the varsity team that year as a sophomore).
Quote from: jutaw22mu on August 22, 2007, 10:10:46 AM
spiral, thanks for posting that digital marquette link. i was able to find a picture of my grandparents, who both went to marquette, from the 1949 yearbook.
No problem.. it really is a goldmine of info.. I'm probably going to go back at some point and start adding rosters for the older teams to the wiki based on the pictures.
Frosh could not play Varsity ball up into the 70's. JV was not very good and usually Frosh that were good would go straight to Varsity.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 22, 2007, 08:28:46 AM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 22, 2007, 08:18:41 AM
Butch Lee is the only PuertoRicanNightmare in my book...a nickname given to him by the great Al McGuire!
Thanks, Spiral! I think he DOES count as an asterisk. He was at K-State from 54-56, so he must have been at MU from 52-54.
PRN, whether you like to admit it or not, Vicens was probably a huge reason why Butch came to Marquette (besides Al being a New Yorker). I remember some freshmen classmates who were from Puerto Rico and they said Butch Lee was the sh*t on the island.
I emailed the PRN. I'm hoping to hear from him.
When you break it all down - Juan Vicens is the reason all of us came to Marquette - this solves the eternal question - why did you go to Maquette?
Butch was not yet born when Vincens attended MU. Butch was born in 55 if he was the usual age for his class.
I wonder if the Vincens that played at Holy Cross, and later on the Puerto Rican Olympic team w/ Butch Lee is his son? Anyone know?
(the two of them, Lee and Vincens, almost beat the U.S. team by themselves).
I was there at the time. My recollection is that Vicens and "Fritz" Schneider both transferred to KS when MU refused to give Winter a slight raise (I heard $500per year). Murff should know>
I emailed Terry Rand and here's his wonderful reply (I was surprised at the turnaround time too - the next morning!):
"I remember Pachin very well. We played on an undefeated freshman team at Marquette. Vicens was an exceptional ball handler. He was small, but very quick. I had him to my home for Thanksgiving that year, 1952. I had met Pachin several times after college and we remained good friends. I have not heard from him in years. Pachin was a floor leader type, a captain and ran the famous offense designed by Tex Winter, who now has 9 NBA championship rings having had a major influence on basketball attack plans. Tex recruited Pachin from Puerto Rico and I helped "Americanize" him. Terry Rand"