I had the opportunity to see JD play Tuesday night in Lovington, NM (I was in Midland, TX for a few days and took Tuesday afternoon off and drove the ~120 miles) to see the game. Just able to sit down and type this up now.
Unfortunately it was probably not the best game to see, very chippy and lots of fouls called...in the 2nd qtr there were over 15 fouls called alone. Clovis ended up winning 67-60 and JD had 16 points.
My overall thoughts are:
1) Legitimate 6'3 - 6'4 body type think Jerel McNeal
2) Very nice jumper, especially pull-up in that he goes straight up and down even in transition..shot needs a little work in keeping elbow in...but he is already a better shooter than many we have seen come in lately.
3) Needs to work on left hand for shooting...everything is right handed, even layups from the left side.
4) Handle is good not great...typical HS player in that dribble is a little high but coaching and drills will handle that.
5) Good leader and tough minded...when things got chippy he was not one to back down..but also kept his cool and kept team focused on winning game.
6) Offense ahead of defense right now...will need to work on BBall IQ and foot work..got away with crossing over his feet a couple of times because he was just better than man he was guarding.
7) Good athlete, but not overly explosive..but I think Todd can make a difference here too.
8)I can see him and DW as a good matching pair. DW defensive specialist and JD as Offensive PG.
9) Has a really nice pull-up floater.
10) Most impressed with was that he plays under control and lets the game come to him...he is not the leading scorer on the team, and does a great job of not making bad plays.
Note of warning these are my thoughts from one game against a team that was not the best and in a game that had no flow. I am the same guy that the first time I saw JFB play I thought we was going to be a bust....
BD
Good to see you back BigDaddy. Any insight into the new conference?
Quote from: BigDaddy84 on February 08, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
I had the opportunity to see JD play Tuesday night in Lovington, NM (I was in Midland, TX for a few days and took Tuesday afternoon off and drove the ~120 miles) to see the game. Just able to sit down and type this up now.
Unfortunately it was probably not the best game to see, very chippy and lots of fouls called...in the 2nd qtr there were over 15 fouls called alone. Clovis ended up winning 67-60 and JD had 16 points.
My overall thoughts are:
1) Legitimate 6'3 - 6'4 body type think Jerel McNeal
2) Very nice jumper, especially pull-up in that he goes straight up and down even in transition..shot needs a little work in keeping elbow in...but he is already a better shooter than many we have seen come in lately.
3) Needs to work on left hand for shooting...everything is right handed, even layups from the left side.
4) Handle is good not great...typical HS player in that dribble is a little high but coaching and drills will handle that.
5) Good leader and tough minded...when things got chippy he was not one to back down..but also kept his cool and kept team focused on winning game.
6) Offense ahead of defense right now...will need to work on BBall IQ and foot work..got away with crossing over his feet a couple of times because he was just better than man he was guarding.
7) Good athlete, but not overly explosive..but I think Todd can make a difference here too.
8)I can see him and DW as a good matching pair. DW defensive specialist and JD as Offensive PG.
9) Has a really nice pull-up floater.
10) Most impressed with was that he plays under control and lets the game come to him...he is not the leading scorer on the team, and does a great job of not making bad plays.
Note of warning these are my thoughts from one game against a team that was not the best and in a game that had no flow. I am the same guy that the first time I saw JFB play I thought we was going to be a bust....
BD
IMO, the toughest things to teach are numbers 5 and 10, so its great to see that he has those now. They are also the keys to the type of player that buzz likes, again IMO.
If the shots go in, what does it matter what it looks like?
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on February 08, 2013, 01:10:23 PM
If the shots go in, what does it matter what it looks like?
In some respects you're right. However the best shooters tend to have the same form. I once coached with a guy who said that as long as you finish high and point to the basket, it doesn't really matter. Both of his kids had classic shooting form though and one played in college.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on February 08, 2013, 01:10:23 PM
If the shots go in, what does it matter what it looks like?
See Blue, Vander
Quote from: LittleMurs on February 08, 2013, 12:46:52 PM
IMO, the toughest things to teach are numbers 5 and 10, so its great to see that he has those now. They are also the keys to the type of player that buzz likes, again IMO.
Thanks and great write-up. And I completely agree, Murs... first thing I thought of, "this sounds like a prototypical Buzz player." Great to hear.
See attached link for scouting report on Dawson by Future150 scouting service - for whatever its worth, they rank him as #83 player in the country for 2013.
http://future150.com/hs/basketball-profiles/john-dawson-pg-2013
Holy smokes ... you drove 120 miles to look at a recruit! I am beyond impressed. Thanks for the report.
Quote from: BigDaddy84 on February 08, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
8)I can see him and DW as a good matching pair. DW defensive specialist and JD as Offensive PG.
Thanks BD. I'm assuming you're referring to Derrick Wilson here, correct? How will Dawson's skills complement Duane Wilson's?
Quote from: LittleMurs on February 08, 2013, 12:46:52 PM
IMO, the toughest things to teach are numbers 5 and 10, so its great to see that he has those now. They are also the keys to the type of player that buzz likes, again IMO.
I would have to go with number 1 in that regard.... ;)
Thanks for the report. I was wondering how he was doing. If his defense doesn't get better by November, he isn't going to get heavy minutes.
I would not expect much from the freshman anyway, I do expect McKay to play as he is a little older, and Duane Wilson might start and get playing time, but Johnson, Burton and
Dewson, I do not see big minutes, much like Steve Taylor this year.
Great report, thanks for posting. Absolutely love your intensity...driving 2 hours across the desert to see a recruit. Well done sir!
Thanks a lot for sharing your thoughts! It would be great to have that offense/defense combo with a couple point guards. Right now Duane Wilson Jr. seems like an offensive stud, so hopefully Dawson can be a bit of both too.
Quote from: BigDaddy84 on February 08, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
I had the opportunity to see JD play Tuesday night in Lovington, NM (I was in Midland, TX for a few days and took Tuesday afternoon off and drove the ~120 miles) to see the game.
Are you kidding? I have flown over that area many times and it is like the moon. This ranks up there among the greatest hard core fan feats of all time. We're talking 5 hours of sheer boredom. Impressive.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 08, 2013, 02:45:09 PM
I would not expect much from the freshman anyway, I do expect McKay to play as he is a little older, and Duane Wilson might start and get playing time, but Johnson, Burton and Dewson, I do not see big minutes, much like Steve Taylor this year.
I'm not as sure. These guys are at another level from past classes.
Johnson and Wilson will play big minutes. Burton can guard 1-4. I'd be surprised if rode the bench.
I think we have to keep in mind who is going to be back....the only one leaving for sure is Junior. There may not be a lot of playing time to be had.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 08, 2013, 03:04:16 PM
I'm not as sure. These guys are at another level from past classes.
Johnson and Wilson will play big minutes. Burton can guard 1-4. I'd be surprised if rode the bench.
I'll take the exact opposite viewpoint. I just don't expect frosh. to ever have a significant impact. It's very rare.
I assume they will play "spot minutes" and be solid role players in Buzz's 10-12 man rotation.
I've never seen these guys play, so maybe I'm completely wrong. I'm simply paying the numbers. The majority of Frosh. in college basketball aren't good enough to play major minutes.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 08, 2013, 03:15:04 PM
I'll take the exact opposite viewpoint. I just don't expect frosh. to ever have a significant impact. It's very rare.
UK, circa 2012. UofM, circa Fab 5.
Quote from: keefe on February 08, 2013, 03:17:23 PM
UK, circa 2012. UofM, circa Fab 5.
None of MU's freshmen are ranked nearly as high as those examples.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 08, 2013, 03:09:41 PM
I think we have to keep in mind who is going to be back....the only one leaving for sure is Junior. There may not be a lot of playing time to be had.
Agreed, senior leadership next year, Wilson, Gardner and Blue (maybe Otule), Taylor and Mckay are back up bigs
If Mayo is back he is going to get some minutes with Anderson at the 3, but Johnson and Burton might get sometime there
Blue is going to get 30 plus at the 2 guard, Mayo will see back up minutes there as well
point- Dwill will get first chance being a junior, as you know, I am not sure he is a Big East caliber point so bothn incoming frosh will get a chance.
You forgot Lockett, he is gone as well.
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 08, 2013, 03:18:50 PM
You forgot Lockett, he is gone as well.
Blah...thanks. Forgot about that.
So yeah, there will be some time available. Hopefully Mayo returns, but if he doesn't, there could be a lot of guard time available.
Quote from: keefe on February 08, 2013, 03:17:23 PM
UK, circa 2012. UofM, circa Fab 5.
Oh good God.
How many Frosh. basketball players enroll at D1 programs every year? 1200? Maybe more?
How many are making a significant impact and playing a lot of minutes? 200?
How many are making a significant impact at a major program? 50? 75?
I said it's RARE. RARE.
I'm playing the odds. MU's incoming frosh. probably won't play a lot of minutes or make a huge impact on next year's team.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 08, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
None of MU's freshmen are ranked nearly as high as those examples.
I am addressing the fact while rare it does happen. Both of those examples were led by freshmen and resulted in stellar results. MU never had such classes, even under Al. Al very much believed in the senior star theory. They also had freshmen teams back then too so it is not analogous.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 08, 2013, 03:21:49 PM
Blah...thanks. Forgot about that.
So yeah, there will be some time available. Hopefully Mayo returns, but if he doesn't, there could be a lot of guard time available.
Always time available for good players. People think Buzz won't play youngsters, but he will if they show they can help the team win. Blue averaged 19 mpg as a freshman and Mayo averaged 21. Even Gardner averaged 14 down the stretch of his frosh season despite being pretty badly out of shape.
Butch Lee, the #1 player in the country that year, as a freshman averaged 8 points.
Recruiting during Al's day was so much different. I remember reading that Al was the closer and would wait until late in the day to get involved. When MU was after Bo I read that Majerus worked the deal hard and then in April Al asked, "So what do we need? A big guy?" He then got in his car and drove to Chicago to meet Bo. Now, coaches are texting and tweeting and calling and fed exing constantly. Crean offering 8th graders is an extreme example of how awful it has gotten.
The biggest impact of any freshman class in MU history was the Amigos + Burke - not because they were our best, but because there wasn't much talent on the rest of the roster. As long as Buzz is here the talent level will be high enough to ensure that no freshman class get those kind of minutes.
Quote from: MU82 on February 08, 2013, 03:37:57 PM
Always time available for good players. People think Buzz won't play youngsters, but he will if they show they can help the team win. Blue averaged 19 mpg as a freshman and Mayo averaged 21. Even Gardner averaged 14 down the stretch of his frosh season despite being pretty badly out of shape.
Yes, but even those guys didn't have huge impacts as players. They were role players.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but expectations are often too high for incoming players.
Frosh. usually don't play much, and if they do play, they usually aren't great.
Juan Anderson's continued development in the off season will probably impact next year more than any of the frosh.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 08, 2013, 03:54:04 PM
The biggest impact of any freshman class in MU history was the Amigos + Burke - not because they were our best, but because there wasn't much talent on the rest of the roster. As long as Buzz is here the talent level will be high enough to ensure that no freshman class get those kind of minutes.
You're right, but it takes minutes + talent.
Cordell Henry and Oluoma Nnamaka started a lot of games as frosh. Neither was anywhere close to the Amigos.
MU has had frosh. starters, but Frosh. impact players are hard to come by.
The Amigos are far and away the best performing frosh. class at MU.
I have to think that we need help at PG next year and that will translate into minutes. Dom James started as a frosh and played his way into first round discussion. I'll bet he is still regretting the decision not to leave. Life changing.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 08, 2013, 03:59:20 PM
You're right, but it takes minutes + talent.
Cordell Henry and Oluoma Nnamaka started a lot of games as frosh. Neither was anywhere close to the Amigos.
MU has had frosh. starters, but Frosh. impact players are hard to come by.
The Amigos are far and away the best performing frosh. class at MU.
,
Yes, but the "best performing frosh class at MU" won a grand total of 2 NCAA games in their career and never finished in the top 15. As good as they were, in the Al era (and now) those 4 wouldn't have gotten anything close to 90 minutes a game as freshmen.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 08, 2013, 04:21:20 PM
,
Yes, but the "best performing frosh class at MU" won a grand total of 2 NCAA games in their career and never finished in the top 15. As good as they were, in the Al era (and now) those 4 wouldn't have gotten anything close to 90 minutes a game as freshmen.
Probably true. But, it takes a mix minutes AND talent.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but throughout MU's history, a lot of frosh. have gotten minutes, very few have been impact players.
To have 3 in one class was SUPER rare.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 08, 2013, 04:21:20 PM
Yes, but the "best performing frosh class at MU" won a grand total of 2 NCAA games in their career and never finished in the top 15.
More than anything else this burned the most.
Quote from: drbeauch on February 08, 2013, 02:11:06 PM
See attached link for scouting report on Dawson by Future150 scouting service - for whatever its worth, they rank him as #83 player in the country for 2013.
http://future150.com/hs/basketball-profiles/john-dawson-pg-2013
Funny, under their "Similar Players" they list Bronson Koenig, who they rank as the #92 recruit. It's funny that out of a 5 player class, our least hyped/lowest ranked recruit is ranked above the 2nd most hyped recruit since Bryan Bust...I mean, Butch...was coming into Madison.
Really good freshmen play. Players have to show in practice that they can dominate other players on the team. The best players will play.
I don't see how anyone can get excited about the incoming players. Once again Buzz has chosen to recruit high school and junior college players instead of recruiting "proven Big East" players.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 08, 2013, 03:54:34 PM
Yes, but even those guys didn't have huge impacts as players. They were role players.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but expectations are often too high for incoming players.
Frosh. usually don't play much, and if they do play, they usually aren't great.
Juan Anderson's continued development in the off season will probably impact next year more than any of the frosh.
Role players are great and we need more of them. Mostly, we're going to need somebody to play the role of a point guard who isn't offensively challenged and the role of an all-around 4. Here's hoping Duane Wilson and McKay are up to it. If they are, they'll get plenty of minutes.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on February 08, 2013, 01:10:23 PM
If the shots go in, what does it matter what it looks like?
Exactly
I would love to see Buzz recruit an athletic, true 7 footer. With his coaching skills, Buzz would probably have a dominate center by their senior year, taking us deep in the tournament.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 08, 2013, 05:00:07 PM
Probably true. But, it takes a mix minutes AND talent.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but throughout MU's history, a lot of frosh. have gotten minutes, very few have been impact players.
To have 3 in one class was SUPER rare.
Maybe we disagree on what an "impact player" is. Okay teams might have one, really good one might have two, great teams as many as three. In 2005-06, DJ and Novak were our impact players. McNeal and Mathews were not. Actually, Wesley didn't become one til his senior year, long after Dom stopped being one.
Quote from: BigDaddy84 on February 08, 2013, 12:33:05 PM
I had the opportunity to see JD play Tuesday night in Lovington, NM (I was in Midland, TX for a few days and took Tuesday afternoon off and drove the ~120 miles) to see the game.
OK, I have to ask....why were you in Midland, TX. Very close to my heart, but not many people go to Midland.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 08, 2013, 08:15:27 PM
Maybe we disagree on what an "impact player" is. Okay teams might have one, really good one might have two, great teams as many as three. In 2005-06, DJ and Novak were our impact players. McNeal and Mathews were not. Actually, Wesley didn't become one til his senior year, long after Dom stopped being one.
Yeah, we're just parsing up semantics now.
I thought McNeal and James were impact players as frosh. with Matthews being a solid role player (mostly due to injury).
But... it's all just semantics of the adjectives we are using.
Quote from: MU82 on February 08, 2013, 07:44:15 PM
Role players are great and we need more of them. Mostly, we're going to need somebody to play the role of a point guard who isn't offensively challenged and the role of an all-around 4. Here's hoping Duane Wilson and McKay are up to it. If they are, they'll get plenty of minutes.
If you expect 1 or 2 guys in next years class to be role players, I think that is reasonable.
If you (or anybody else) expects them to come in and play 30min, I think you will be disappointed.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 08, 2013, 05:04:03 PM
Funny, under their "Similar Players" they list Bronson Koenig, who they rank as the #92 recruit. It's funny that out of a 5 player class, our least hyped/lowest ranked recruit is ranked above the 2nd most hyped recruit since Bryan Bust...I mean, Butch...was coming into Madison.
Wasn't the highest rated WI recruit Sam Okey? That guy never amounted to anything.
(http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/draft/images/players/64.jpg)
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on February 08, 2013, 07:52:43 PM
I would love to see Buzz recruit an athletic, true 7 footer. With his coaching skills, Buzz would probably have a dominate center by their senior year, taking us deep in the tournament.
Not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do. See: Embiid, Joel.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 08, 2013, 04:21:20 PM
,
Yes, but the "best performing frosh class at MU" won a grand total of 2 NCAA games in their career and never finished in the top 15. As good as they were, in the Al era (and now) those 4 wouldn't have gotten anything close to 90 minutes a game as freshmen.
It happens. Shaq won two NCAA tournament games in his career as well....SHAQ...one of the most dominant players in the history of the game at any level. A guy that played with Chris Jackson and Stanley Roberts mind you. Plenty of other examples just like them. The DJ injury was huge. The McNeal injury was huge. Life goes on, some will judge players and teams by one game, others by their career.