seniors need to step up. Why has our best leader(cadougan) been on the bench so much?? Otule has heart but
no hands. Lockett provides experience but not much else. The future looks bright , but for this year to finnish strong
we need our seniors.
Lockett had his best game of the year today and has been improving as the season has gone on....way more than just "experience."
must be talking about someone else. The lockett I watch is always out of position on defense. takes questionable shots
and commits some of the most head scratching fouls in crunch time of any player in memory.
Lockett's game stats are trending very nicely.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/trent-lockett/game_stats
He's third in minutes...second in rebounds...top five in steals, assists and points. He's not a superstar, but he is certainly playing well.
never going to change my mind on lockett. But what is the deal with junior??
Lockett played very well today. Otule is what he is...he played hard and did some good things but he is a very limited player.
Junior never seems to play well against Louisville......Has had a very up and down season so far.
Jae and DJO aren't walking through that door......
Lockett is a good stat filler type of player but he just does not seem to fit with the players and style marquette plays. Hes too slow, slumbles and falls anytime he goes into traffic, and he out of position/soft on D.
Quote from: mhendrick on February 03, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
never going to change my mind on lockett. But what is the deal with junior??
Suffers from L.O.F.T.
Quote from: MU4life2 on February 03, 2013, 08:38:37 PM
Lockett is a good stat filler type of player but he just does not seem to fit with the players and style marquette plays. Hes too slow, slumbles and falls anytime he goes into traffic, and he out of position/soft on D.
That is the first time I have ever heard Trent described as a "stat filler type."
lack of full testicals
stat stuffer no. buzz calls him the smartest player but smart players do not make stupid fouls in crunch time.
simply put he is experienced.
little onions for testicles
Can we throw Jamil in there as a 4th year player? Total bumslayer. Plays scared against good teams. Not even giving the defensive plus he did last year
Blue was outstanding today. Lockett was good offensively, but lost his man for back door layups several times. Otule was ok. Downhill from there.
I thought Lockett was one of our better players on the court today. Diving for balls and making a good effort. I thought he and Blue were the two guys who wanted to be on the floor and take it to LU
Lockett looked better than anyone else today. He has been improving every day....
Quote from: mubb34 on February 04, 2013, 01:01:35 AM
Lockett looked better than anyone else today. He has been improving every day....
He needs to improve, especially his defense. He looked silly out there against UL. They are simply much too quick for him.
IMO we need more help at PG than anything else. Both guys hold the ball too long and get sloppy with passes. Our seniors are giving us exactly what was expected for the most part.
Quote from: mhendrick on February 03, 2013, 08:59:42 PM
lack of full testicals
Quote from: keefe on February 03, 2013, 09:22:35 PM
little onions for testicles
Quote from: dpucane on February 03, 2013, 09:26:14 PM
Can we throw Jamil in there as a 4th year player? Total bumslayer. Plays scared against good teams. Not even giving the defensive plus he did last year
It would be nice if people could actually post logical thoughts about our players instead of this embarrassing crap. I don't mind criticism, but this kind of stuff is just useless and unnecessary.
Lockett had a good game relative to the rest of the team, at least he was playing hard. He still gets caught watching the ball and giving up back door cuts a couple of times a game. Blue showed up and played hard. Siva owns Junior. JWilson is starting to genuinely concern me. He has regressed. Last year, being forced to play lots of minutes out of position, he was an able and talented sidekick to Crowder. He didn't get outmuscled/ outfought, he guarded in the post without committing stupid fouls, he played smart on offense, he competed hard for an extended period of games. I'm not seeing much of that this year. He had a rep coming out of high school of being soft, but I thought he was past that.
Otule competed harder than Gardner yesterday. DG got his early fouls and packed it in. You can't make slow motion moves against Louisville.
We were beat by a better team on their home court. Our seniors played hard. Losses are tough to take. But, we lost, let's move on.
Regarding Jamil, there has been a number of comments that talk about his natural ability and his gifts, but honestly I am beginning to think that has been exaggerated. He can clearly jump.
But I don't think he is quick enough. He oftentimes can't stay in front of people on defense at times. Also, he never takes guys off the dribble and attacks the basket. His offensive game is limited to spot up shooting. Even the curl off the pick that Vander is starting to hit, Jamil can't really do.
I'm not exactly sure what Jamil is even after a year and a half of watching him.
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2013, 08:21:19 AMJWilson is starting to genuinely concern me.
Same here. With all of his natural athletic talent, it makes me wonder if he even wants to be here. He has all the tools to be a great player (and, I think, the personality to be a strong leader), but seems to want to handicap himself. Just don't get it.
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2013, 08:21:19 AMDG got his early fouls and packed it in.
(I only watched the first half, so this may be a completely ignorant comment.) I have to think the flagrant 2 had an effect on him. He's a pretty emotional guy—pounding his chest, crushing the ball after a miss—and I didn't see much of that yesterday. I think he might have been told to take it down a notch, and responded in-kind. After Harrel's flop (DG's second foul, I believe), he seemed pretty calm. Not what I expected.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Regarding Jamil, there has been a number of comments that talk about his natural ability and his gifts, but honestly I am beginning to think that has been exaggerated.
That's certainly possible. It explains his output better than lack of trying.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on February 04, 2013, 08:30:32 AM
Regarding Jamil, there has been a number of comments that talk about his natural ability and his gifts, but honestly I am beginning to think that has been exaggerated. He can clearly jump.
But I don't think he is quick enough. He oftentimes can't stay in front of people on defense at times. Also, he never takes guys off the dribble and attacks the basket. His offensive game is limited to spot up shooting. Even the curl off the pick that Vander is starting to hit, Jamil can't really do.
I'm not exactly sure what Jamil is even after a year and a half of watching him.
Perhaps. What confuses me more is that he produced at a fairly high level for half a season last year as Crowder's sidekick. It appeared that the spot up 4 position in Buzz's offense was made for his skills. It appeared that he could defend multiple positions without fouling. It appeared he could make good decisions. I think the talent is there, but he hasn't yet taken on the warrior mentality of a Crowder/Butler/Lazar.
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2013, 08:44:12 AM
Perhaps. What confuses me more is that he produced at a fairly high level for half a season last year as Crowder's sidekick. It appeared that the spot up 4 position in Buzz's offense was made for his skills. It appeared that he could defend multiple positions without fouling. It appeared he could make good decisions. I think the talent is there, but he hasn't yet taken on the warrior mentality of a Crowder/Butler/Lazar.
See, I just don't see it as a mental issue...I think it's a physical one. I just don't think he has the strength or quickness to do what his three predecessors, all of whom where NBA draft picks, did previously for MU. Last year when Otule got injured, he had to guard the generally slower post players. He worked hard even though he was undersized, but he *did* pick up a lot of fouls. (Just look at last year's game log.) Now he's back to guarding wing players and he is struggling.
We are seeing the same thing and disagreeing on the cause. I see him make lateral moves that only elite players of his size make. But I see him do it once every other game. I see him making offensive moves and getting to the foul line or short corner against the zone and making the whole defense move.....once every other game. You think it is physical, I think its mental. If he never gets better, then perhaps we will never know. If he does get better, or even as good as he was last year, then it is mental.
I've said it before - Jamil is an ok though undersized 5. He can play the 4 against slower, less athletic guys like Knight at ND, but he's too slow and mechanical to play the 4 against elite athletes. He can jump out of the gym and shoot but has little lateral quickness, doesn't handle it well and isn't a good decision maker. He'll tease with some "wow" moments but can't (so far anyway) sustain them with any consistency.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on February 04, 2013, 08:27:37 AM
We were beat by a better team on their home court. Our seniors played hard. Losses are tough to take. But, we lost, let's move on.
Well put. Louisville is more talented than Marquette, they got on a roll and MU couldn't do much to stop it. It happens.
I do not think Jamil has any physical limitations to play at this level. IMO it has to be mental. He is way too gifted athletically to get lost in the shiffle as often as he does. Physically I think and Vander are our top two athletically gifted guys. Yesterday was the first time I actually got pissed at Jamil because something is missing, either confidence or he just does not get it.
Just way too passive. There were a couple times he just stood at the edge of the lane and watched a guy waltz past him for a layup.
Just once I want him to get nasty and foul the guy. Hard. Don't let the ball get to the rim.
Quote from: Goose on February 04, 2013, 09:32:47 AM
I do not think Jamil has any physical limitations to play at this level. IMO it has to be mental. He is way too gifted athletically to get lost in the shiffle as often as he does. Physically I think and Vander are our top two athletically gifted guys. Yesterday was the first time I actually got pissed at Jamil because something is missing, either confidence or he just does not get it.
Goose-
If yesterday was the first time you got pissed at Jamil because something is missing you're more patient than I. He COMPLETELY disappeared against Butler (we win if he's not totally passive) and against Florida. Sorry to say but he just doesn't bring it every day, especially against tough, physical opponents.
Lenny
Trust me I have wanted to get pissed at him a ton this season and yesterday was breaking point. Have mentioned often on here about his obvious athleticism and talents and I gave him plenty of time to prove it. If things do not improve with him he might go down as one of the biggest disappointments in use of talent I have seen at MU.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2013, 09:12:01 AM
I've said it before - Jamil is an ok though undersized 5. He can play the 4 against slower, less athletic guys like Knight at ND, but he's too slow and mechanical to play the 4 against elite athletes. He can jump out of the gym and shoot but has little lateral quickness, doesn't handle it well and isn't a good decision maker. He'll tease with some "wow" moments but can't (so far anyway) sustain them with any consistency.
Great post. I have come to the exact same conclusion.
See, I see it as a scheme issue. Pitino and his protege Billy D have got Buzz's zone offense down to a T as how to defend it. When they press, they know exactly where Buzz wants Junior to get it in the backcourt (or after a rebound). Whenever MU puts it on the ground as Buzz's paint touch offense requires, the defenders always drop down and disrupt the dribble as our ballhandlers dribble high. Good lord, MU couldn't even inbound the ball yesterday. Scouting people.
Buzz likes to dribble cross sectional to move the defense up high, and their defenses go to disrupt the dribble drive. They have figured out the seam entries he prefers and the passing lanes. The ball goes into Gardner and there is a quick double team always. Gardner cannot get it back out nor can he get a shot off. MU is not a great perimeter team...but are they this bad? Too many of their shots are rushed at the end of a shot clock off a dribble instead of a catch and shoot because the offense is not allowing them to create space for a three. Buzz keeps trying to make Jamil the Jae/Lazar forward. He is a 4 not a 3.
Honestly, against the zone, Buzz's best protypical lineup is Vander at PG, Todd at the 2G, Steve at the 3, Jamil at the 4, and Gardner at the 5. Junior is dynamite against the man and poor against the zone. Juan fits the 3 spot well as does Lockett. Otule the 5. DWilson the backup, controlled PG, who did a great job on Smith defensively yesterday. Buzz is trying to force fit talent without changing his scheme. Guess what? The Pitino Clan has caught on if they have time to prepare their great athletic talent. Adjustments are needed for personnel. Buzz's teams never get blown out--except now against this DNA coaching strand.
Quote from: mhendrick on February 03, 2013, 09:02:19 PM
stat stuffer no. buzz calls him the smartest player but smart players do not make stupid fouls in crunch time.
simply put he is experienced.
It took Jae Crowder half a season to adjust to MU's game. He was always making stupid fouls and people were ragging on him also. Their are very few teams that the players on defense chase the ball like MU does. It takes time for players to learn to play that way. Most teams do not run an offense like MU does either. Lockett played three years playing a totally different style on offense and defense at ASU. It takes time to adapt and I feel that he is starting to show significant progress. There is still room for improvement, but he is going in the right direction.
why all the talk on wilson...he is not a senior. He still has a year to figure out how hard he needs to play
every day and every possesion. When he loses that hang loose attitude and tightens up he could be special.
Its the seniors who need to elevate their play against the better teams and set the tone for the other guys
how hard they need to play.
Quote from: mhendrick on February 04, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
why all the talk on wilson...he is not a senior. He still has a year to figure out how hard he needs to play
every day and every possesion. When he loses that hang loose attitude and tightens up he could be special.
Its the seniors who need to elevate their play against the better teams and set the tone for the other guys
how hard they need to play.
He's a 4th year junior who was a top 50 player in high school - and he was pretty darn good last year. It's time for him to take the next step or grab some bench.
Quote from: mhendrick on February 04, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
why all the talk on wilson...he is not a senior. He still has a year to figure out how hard he needs to play
every day and every possesion. When he loses that hang loose attitude and tightens up he could be special.
Its the seniors who need to elevate their play against the better teams and set the tone for the other guys
how hard they need to play.
Been hearing this ever since he stepped on campus. I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest specialness is in his future.
Quote from: MU82 on February 04, 2013, 10:32:55 PM
Been hearing this ever since he stepped on campus. I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest specialness is in his future.
Hank said the same thing about Marquardt. And we laughed. Dino had a great senior season.
Buzz said the same about Butler. And we scratched our heads. Jimmy led the team to the Sweet 16.
Quote from: keefe on February 04, 2013, 10:40:36 PM
Hank said the same thing about Marquardt. And we laughed. Dino had a great senior season.
Buzz said the same about Butler. And we scratched our heads. Jimmy led the team to the Sweet 16.
Dean Marquardt averaged 8.5 points and 6.6 rebounds in his "great" senior season, so I guess you and I define "great" differently.
Jimmy Butler's outstanding senior season wasn't at all surprising; he averaged 15 points and 6 rebounds as a junior.
Just sayin'.
Quote from: MU82 on February 04, 2013, 10:49:45 PM
Dean Marquardt averaged 8.5 points and 6.6 rebounds in his "great" senior season, so I guess you and I define "great" differently.
Jimmy Butler's outstanding senior season wasn't at all surprising; he averaged 15 points and 6 rebounds as a junior.
Just sayin'.
'
Read my statement. From their arrival on campus to their last year these guys emerged as floor leaders. And that isn't just stats.
Are you aware of Marquardt's serious injuries suffered in a car crash after his freshman year? He broke 14 ribs, his arm, and his collarbone. After the car crash and his first three seasons Marquardt had a breakout senior year. Hank repeatedly championed Dino as a First Rounder. Maybe you weren't there but Hank and Michael Wilson said Marquardt's maturation and emergence was the most important factor in their senior year.
Frankly, I will listen to a coach and a team mate well before I listen to you.
And who thought Butler would go in the first round when he showed up at Marquette? Sure, he had a great Junior year but that's not what I was referencing. I said when he first showed up. Quit taking things out of context or read.
"Just sayin'"
Quote from: mhendrick on February 04, 2013, 08:35:48 PM
why all the talk on wilson...he is not a senior. He still has a year to figure out how hard he needs to play
every day and every possesion. When he loses that hang loose attitude and tightens up he could be special.
Its the seniors who need to elevate their play against the better teams and set the tone for the other guys
how hard they need to play.
I've just come to the conclusion that this is who he is. And I don't think attitude has anything to do with it.
Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
We are seeing the same thing and disagreeing on the cause. I see him make lateral moves that only elite players of his size make. But I see him do it once every other game. I see him making offensive moves and getting to the foul line or short corner against the zone and making the whole defense move.....once every other game. You think it is physical, I think its mental. If he never gets better, then perhaps we will never know. If he does get better, or even as good as he was last year, then it is mental.
Have to agree with tower re. JWilson. He does make moves you'd expect from an athletic wing 4. He just doesn't look to make them with the frequency MU needs. It's like he'll make a nice, athletic move and then relaxes and sits back - on both ends of the floor. Something has to click so that he'll really understand that he has to play pissed off without actually being pissed off (see the game earlier this year when he got pissed about a swipe by an opposing player, and then went off for the better part of a half). Maybe that's just not in his personality, and there's nothing wrong with that. We, the fans, will just have to adjust our expectations downward for the rest of this year and maybe next year.
Quote from: keefe on February 04, 2013, 10:59:01 PM
'
Read my statement. From their arrival on campus to their last year these guys emerged as floor leaders. And that isn't just stats.
Are you aware of Marquardt's serious injuries suffered in a car crash after his freshman year? He broke 14 ribs, his arm, and his collarbone. After the car crash and his first three seasons Marquardt had a breakout senior year. Hank repeatedly championed Dino as a First Rounder. Maybe you weren't there but Hank and Michael Wilson said Marquardt's maturation and emergence was the most important factor in their senior year.
Frankly, I will listen to a coach and a team mate well before I listen to you.
And who thought Butler would go in the first round when he showed up at Marquette? Sure, he had a great Junior year but that's not what I was referencing. I said when he first showed up. Quit taking things out of context or read.
"Just sayin'"
Marquardt and I were in the same class. I knew him. I'm well aware of his trials and tribulations and I commend him overcoming adversity. That doesn't mean he had a "great" senior season, unless you and I simply agree to define "great" differently.
I do see what you're saying about context, though. I was the one who brought up the stepped-on-campus line while you didn't mention it. But I now see that you were making a reference back to my point. Fair enough, especially on Jimmy.