MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Sunbelt15 on January 30, 2013, 10:25:22 AM
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With the maturity I've seen in Vander Blue over the years and considering the 30 point game, I still have a hard time picturing him as a NBA caliber player. I know he has a year to go and, as of now, he and Gardner has the most potential. But, something is missing in his game that could push him over the top, and I just can't put my finger on it. We saw it in Jae C. his junior year, but its missing in Blue. What is it?
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Dreadlocks?
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He can't handle well enough to play the point, isn't consistent enough to be a knock down shooter, and is too small to attack the basket.
If he can continue to develop his mid-range game, and get better with the ball in his hands, he *could* stick on an NBA team. But in the end I think he is simply too small a la Jerel McNeal.
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With the maturity I've seen in Vander Blue over the years and considering the 30 point game, I still have a hard time picturing him as a NBA caliber player. I know he has a year to go and, as of now, he and Gardner has the most potential. But, something is missing in his game that could push him over the top, and I just can't put my finger on it. We saw it in Jae C. his junior year, but its missing in Blue. What is it?
A jetpack.
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It is awesome that a 30 pt game brings out so many people calling out Vander.
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About 3-4 inches.
Vander Blue's game at 6'7" translates to the NBA well.
At 6'3"ish, probably not.
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I think he needs to add 20 pounds to his frame so he is not bounced around going to hoop. Secondly, if he keeps in improving his shooting he has a chance. Freakish athlete who can
go to the hoop using his left or right. Last year we would all agree he had no chance, now the door is opening slightly. Lets see how he plays on the road, I think he was horrible at
GB. If he scores 15-20 against Louie I would be impressed.
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I dunno. Seems to me he just strapped it on last game.
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As others have said, needs to keep improving his jumper and handle. Right now he's a middle-class man's Jerel.
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Guys in NBA obviously see things differently than we do. If VB is considering going pro someone has to be telling him what the big boys think. That does not make him a sure fire pro by any means but because guys on here think he cannot make it really means nothing.
If someone would have told me Chris Crawford would have had the career he had I would have taken any bet on that. Athleticism and speed goes a long way, plus he has good basketball frame to grown into.
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Stone Cold
A middle class Jerel? Come on!!
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fans that appreciate him?
With the maturity I've seen in Vander Blue over the years and considering the 30 point game, I still have a hard time picturing him as a NBA caliber player. I know he has a year to go and, as of now, he and Gardner has the most potential. But, something is missing in his game that could push him over the top, and I just can't put my finger on it. We saw it in Jae C. his junior year, but its missing in Blue. What is it?
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Stone Cold
A middle class Jerel? Come on!!
??? What's the problem with that comparison?
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Madtown
+1
I think he is exciting as hell to watch. Frustrating less and exciting more.
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fans that appreciate him?
I think no one is being disrespectful of him or what he brings to the table for MU right now. The question on how his game translates to the next level is a good one. I mean, being compared to McNeal is not an insult by any means.
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Sultan
VB's D is vastly better, better rebounder and doing things his Jr. year Jerel did his Sr. year. Jerel was a cheat on D and VB is lockdown defender. Also, Jerel upside was hit and VB has plenty in the tank. In certain regard he reminds of Doc Rivers in that his best days were after MU. Doc was good college player but better pro.
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Guys in NBA obviously see things differently than we do. If VB is considering going pro someone has to be telling him what the big boys think. That does not make him a sure fire pro by any means but because guys on here think he cannot make it really means nothing.
I think Goose hit it on the head. Our opinions mean nothing. Vander is definitely on NBA radars. This was what David Thorpe had to say after last year's game vs Washington
"Vander Blue, G
School/Class: Marquette, sophomore
Line score: 11 points (5-9 FGM-A) 1-1 (FTs), 4 rebounds, 1 assist, 1 steal
Top 100 draft ranking: 74
Game play: This kid is really fast with the ball or on a dead sprint. Has great quickness, too. Blue looks like he's a combo guard with some passing talent. He made a number of nice touch passes and frequent skip or diagonal passes against a zone defense.
I liked his overall court awareness. He knew when to use his athletic gifts and when to slow down. And he always knew where his teammates were. He handled the point guard duties well, though he had few chances to earn an assist. What he did do was move the ball well. He showed me enough to think he might be able to play full-time point guard in the NBA, in part because he did not force shots.
Basketball tools: Blue is a smooth dribbler with a nice perimeter shot. He mixed up his driving speeds well. He looked like he enjoyed playing defense and was up for the challenge of guarding Washington's talented guards without fouling.
Physical aptitude/comparables: Built like Raja Bell, Blue is totally proportional (as opposed to so many freakishly long athletes) but plays with more athleticism than Bell ever did. Blue is able to play with burst, but he's normally very smooth while still moving quickly."
It's interesting that the other players he highlighted were all drafted (Ross and Wroten from Wash and DJO) while he made no mention on Jae who has probably been the best pro so far out of anyone in that game and hit the game winning shot. All it takes is 1 GM to like him. Do I think he should come out this year, no, but when he does he has a good chance of being drafted.
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Sultan
VB's D is vastly better, better rebounder and doing things his Jr. year Jerel did his Sr. year. Jerel was a cheat on D and VB is lockdown defender. Also, Jerel upside was hit and VB has plenty in the tank. In certain regard he reminds of Doc Rivers in that his best days were after MU. Doc was good college player but better pro.
Note the bolded part. "Right now he's a middle-class man's Jerel." He has a higher ceiling but we don't know if he's going to reach it.
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Wesley, Lazar, JFB, and Jae had little to no chance - until they did. Dominic James was thought to be an NBA player from very early in his MU career - until he wasn't.
Watching his improvement, I wouldn't bet against Vander.
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Sultan
VB's D is vastly better, better rebounder and doing things his Jr. year Jerel did his Sr. year. Jerel was a cheat on D and VB is lockdown defender. Also, Jerel upside was hit and VB has plenty in the tank. In certain regard he reminds of Doc Rivers in that his best days were after MU. Doc was good college player but better pro.
Value add puts Jerel as the #12 player all time at Marquette. VB is not at that level. He might be a better pro, but I don't view that comparison as an insult by any stretch.
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Going into this season, I thought the idea of Blue in the NBA was insane, and said so in several threads.
He is exponentially better this season so that such talk is no longer insane. The biggest thing he has done is develop a shooting touch on his drives. I am frankly stunned and how often he makes shots off of the drive now when in the same situation the last two seasons he'd pick up a charge or brick a liner off the bottom of the rim. He's always had the requisite athleticism.
That said, he's still got work to do. He doesn't have the handle to play PG in the NBA, and he is not big enough to be a lock down defender except against a subset of SGs, so he is going to have to be a scorer. So the next step in his development has to become a consistent shooter without sacrificing the other parts of his game. Still a reach to project him as a meaningful contributer in the NBA, but now he's got a fighting chance.
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As others have said, needs to keep improving his jumper and handle. Right now he's a middle-class man's Jerel.
Not sure what "a middle-class man's Jerel" means.
Statistically, Blue's junior season is very similar to McNeal's:
BLUE: 14.8 pt - 45.3% FG - 32.4% 3PT - 72.2% FT - 3.1 reb - 1.8 ast - 1.0 stl
MCNL: 14.9 pt - 45.6% FG - 30.4% 3PT - 70.2% FT - 4.9 reb - 3.5 ast - 2.2 stl
Jerel's teammates included James, Matthews and Hayward, so that's an advantage to his assists but also means he had to share the ball with more scorers. He was a better rebounder and got more steals than Blue. Their shooting and scoring is identical.
Of course, Vander's story his junior year is still being told. He is coming off a 30-point game and has averaged 17 since laying an egg (like most of the rest of the team) at Green Bay. The tougher part of the schedule begins Sunday, but it's not outrageous to think he can finish a point or two higher than junior Jerel did.
Jerel made a significant leap from his junior year to his senior year. Can Vander do the same? I see no reason why not.
I have absolutely no problem comparing Blue favorably to McNeal ... but maybe that's because I'm a "middle-class man"?
As for Blue's NBA chances, I'd rate them about the same as McNeal's at this point. In other words, not very good. Too short, not good enough handle, not good enough passer, not good enough shooter. Same as McNeal.
Doesn't mean he's not already a good college player with a chance to be outstanding.
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fans that appreciate him?
Four words. Best post here!
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MU82
Difference is VB has been on NBA guys radar screen since high school and Jerel has never been on the radar screen. It comes down to eye test for NBA guys more than numbers.
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Not sure what "a middle-class man's Jerel" means.
Statistically, Blue's junior season is very similar to McNeal's:
BLUE: 14.8 pt - 45.3% FG - 32.4% 3PT - 72.2% FT - 3.1 reb - 1.8 ast - 1.0 stl
MCNL: 14.9 pt - 45.6% FG - 30.4% 3PT - 70.2% FT - 4.9 reb - 3.5 ast - 2.2 stl
Jerel's teammates included James, Matthews and Hayward, so that's an advantage to his assists but also means he had to share the ball with more scorers. He was a better rebounder and got more steals than Blue. Their shooting and scoring is identical.
Of course, Vander's story his junior year is still being told. He is coming off a 30-point game and has averaged 17 since laying an egg (like most of the rest of the team) at Green Bay. The tougher part of the schedule begins Sunday, but it's not outrageous to think he can finish a point or two higher than junior Jerel did.
Jerel made a significant leap from his junior year to his senior year. Can Vander do the same? I see no reason why not.
I have absolutely no problem comparing Blue favorably to McNeal ... but maybe that's because I'm a "middle-class man"?
As for Blue's NBA chances, I'd rate them about the same as McNeal's at this point. In other words, not very good. Too short, not good enough handle, not good enough passer, not good enough shooter. Same as McNeal.
Doesn't mean he's not already a good college player with a chance to be outstanding.
Yes, their junior year statlines are similar but look back at freshman and soph years to see why Blue is not quite at McNeal's level yet.
In terms of NBA potential, the major difference between Blue and McNeal is that Blue is at least 2" taller and much more athletic.
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VB is not at that level. He might be a better pro, but I don't view that comparison as an insult by any stretch.
Since Jerel has never played a second in the NBA the worst outcome for Van would be a dead heat.
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Sultan
If you want to compare Jerel and VB as college player no problem. I thought discussion was VB and the NBA. As for next level potential IMO Jerel is a poor man's Vander in regard to playing at next level.
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Yes, their junior year statlines are similar but look back at freshman and soph years to see why Blue is not quite at McNeal's level yet.
In terms of NBA potential, the major difference between Blue and McNeal is that Blue is at least 2" taller and much more athletic.
I'd say the fact that Blue has a greater gap between his fresh/soph and junior numbers gives him the edge in NBA chances.
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Here's something from Jason King's "King's Court" on ESPN (he's gets the 'B' grade):
"B: Vander Blue -- After subpar seasons as a freshman and sophomore, the 31st-ranked recruit in the Class of 2010 is finally living up to expectations. Blue is averaging 14.8 points per game for 25th-ranked Marquette and 19 points in his past five contests. "We don't necessarily sign guys that are ready-made," Golden Eagles coach Buzz Williams told ESPN.com. "We sign guys that know they're going to have to work. He's had a lot on his shoulders. He can't control what all the expectations have been for him since he got here. He's handled that burden, and now his stock is on the rise. But we need him to do more." Blue netted a career-high 30 points in Sunday's win over South Florida."
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8895166/six-teams-exceeded-expectations-college-basketball (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8895166/six-teams-exceeded-expectations-college-basketball)
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Stone Cold
A middle class Jerel? Come on!!
I think Stone Cold has it right. McNeal was a better player at this stage.
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Since Jerel has never played a second in the NBA the worst outcome for Van would be a dead heat.
The worst outcome would be to never sign a contract, thus not making it a dead heat. Meaning, he would never be a NBA player which McNeal has already accomplished
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Wesley, Lazar, JFB, and Jae had little to no chance - until they did. Dominic James was thought to be an NBA player from very early in his MU career - until he wasn't.
Watching his improvement, I wouldn't bet against Vander.
+1
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Chico's
So did you think Jerel had higher NBA prospects than Vander?
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Chico's
So did you think Jerel had higher NBA prospects than Vander?
I view them similarly overall. By no means am I suggesting he can't make it, but I think right now in his junior year he is a long way off.
Let's not forget that McNeal was the Big East Defensive Player of the year in a conference back then that was superior to today's Big East. He is also MU's all time leading scorer, a better assist man than Vander is.
I won't bet against VB, but I find the notion of him leaving after this year to be bad bad advice if that's what he is thinking.
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Chico's
If he goes this year or not is not really the point. Comparing Jerel and Vander as Jr's you thought Jerel had same NBA prospects as Vander? IMO there is no comparison between the two in regards to being NBA prospects. Seriously, with all of your contacts what do the NBA guys look for?
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Had to look at the stats: small sample size for this conf. season year BUT IF Blue keeps up his ppg and fg% in league play I'll say he's about McNeal's equal this year if not better jr year.
Like that Blue is moving in the right direction obviously. Amazing thing about Jerel was he gave us consistent top level production for 4 years (and took it to another level his senior year).
*Conference Statistics*
McNeal:
Soph year: 14.9 ppg, 3.9 apg, 5.1 rpg, 42.9 fg%, 37.7 3pt fg%.
Blue:
Soph year: 8 ppg, 2.6 apg, 4.7 rpg, 42 fg%, 25 3 fg%
McNeal:
Junior year: 13.6 ppg, 4.0 apg, 4.7 rpg, 40.3 fg%, 25. 9 3pt fg%. (senior yr. 22.3 ppg, 4.6 apg, 40 3 fg%, 44 fg%)
Blue:
Junior-7 games: 17.1ppg, 1.9 apg, 3.9 rpg, 46.6 fg%, 27.8 3pt fg%.
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Chico's
If he goes this year or not is not really the point. Comparing Jerel and Vander as Jr's you thought Jerel had same NBA prospects as Vander? IMO there is no comparison between the two in regards to being NBA prospects. Seriously, with all of your contacts what do the NBA guys look for?
You guys are arguing over who's the tallest midget in the room.
As juniors, neither are/were good NBA prospects.
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Pakuni
Just curious...how do you know what NBA guys think? I fully admit I do not know, but know Vander has been NBA draft charts all three seasons here.
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Pakuni
Just curious...how do you know what NBA guys think? I fully admit I do not know, but know Vander has been NBA draft charts all three seasons here.
If you don't know what NBA guys think, how is it that you're certain Vander is on NBA draft charts?
I'd guess there are dozens of players on NBA draft charts. But in a draft in which only 60 players are taken, a decent number of them from Europe, being on the radar does not make one a good prospect.
How do I know what NBA guys think? From watching the draft. And 6-foot-3ish two guards without consistent perimeter shots or point-guard skills don't often fare well in the draft.
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I think some folks here don't realize how difficult it is for a skinny 6-3 or 6-4 kid to make it in the NBA. The few who do are either incredible shooters, killer ballhandler/assist men or both.
Vander, at this point, is neither.
Please, I am not saying Vander is no good. He has worked hard to become very good and he has the chance to be an outstanding, outstanding college player.
But unless he significantly improves the most important NBA skill-sets for a player of his size -- shooting, ballhandling, passing -- he will not be an NBA player. Just as Jerel is not an NBA player and DJO is not an NBA player and former Illini star Dee Brown is not an NBA player and so many other undersized non-shooters are not NBA players. The NBA values defense and hustle, but not so much in a skinny 6-3 kid.
Might Vander get drafted? That's a whole 'nother question. Sure he might. Lazar and DJO got drafted ... but they are not destined to have long NBA careers. Adam Morrison got drafted No. 3 overall and he was out of basketball faster than you could say "What was Michael Jordan thinking?"
Only 450 players in the entire world are good enough to be on NBA rosters, and only half of them are good enough to have real security. I can't think of another player similar to Vander Blue who is in that group.
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The worst outcome would be to never sign a contract, thus not making it a dead heat. Meaning, he would never be a NBA player which McNeal has already accomplished
In your world (and i'll grant officially according to the NBA) a guy who signs a contract but never plays a second before being cut is an NBA player. In mine you have to play to be considered a player. I also don't think that a singer who signs a contract with Columbia records but never records anything with them is a Columbia recording artist.
But for the sake of a wager I'm willing to give Jerel credit for his contract. Here's my offer: Jerel vs Vander, first 5 years after college professional success. $100 for signing an NBA contract (limit 1 per player) + $1 per minute of playing time in regular or playoff games. You're ahead right now by a hundred and if Vander never gets a sniff you'll win at least that much. Conditions accepted?
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Eventually, this is all going to boil down to the most important question: What does he measure without shoes?
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Isn't Blue a couple inches taller than McNeil?
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Isn't Blue a couple inches taller than McNeil?
Vander is listed at 6'4", I believe McNeal was usually listed at 6'2" or 6'3".
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Isn't Blue a couple inches taller than McNeil?
McNeal's official height at MU was 6-foot-3.
Blue's official height is 6-foot-4.
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A better long-range jumper, the ability to play the point. He has the speed, athleticism and hops. He can defend well enough.
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Pakuni
I am basing my point off that I had heard Vander was going pro after this season nine months ago. I am assuming someone must be giving him solid advice. The person(s) that told me this were very confident that this was his last year at MU. I am not surprised he is having breakout year if what I heard is correct. The kid is playing to get himself to next level.
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If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander? I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.
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If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander? I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.
He's also a better handler.
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If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander? I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.
Vander has a good 3 inches on DJO at least. That's important in the NBA. Not everyone has to be a scorer to stick, it just helps overcome other deficiencies at times.
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If DJO can't make a roster, how can Vander? I know Vander is far superior at defense, but the fact is they just do not have the size to translate their game into the NBA.
Has a higher basketball IQ.
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Pakuni
I am basing my point off that I had heard Vander was going pro after this season nine months ago. I am assuming someone must be giving him solid advice. The person(s) that told me this were very confident that this was his last year at MU. I am not surprised he is having breakout year if what I heard is correct. The kid is playing to get himself to next level.
I would postulate that whoever is telling Vander he should go pro after this year is giving him the opposite of solid advice.
Liquid advice? Gas advice? Whatever, but it isn't solid.
Only somebody who is a lock to be drafted in the first round (and who then will receive a multi-year, guaranteed contract) -- and then, only somebody quite certain to go in the lottery -- should come out early.
We might disagree about Vander's long-range prospects and about whether or not he'll get drafted, but I'm pretty sure that nobody here thinks he'll be one of the top 14 picks in the draft.
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MU82
Being a 20 year old might work in his favor. That extra year of being coached at higher level might be what a team would be looking for. Age factors into things and being a young Jr. in college is a positive. Paying guys to play is different story and teams draft for different reasons. Just look at the number of high school kids drafted early and never did a thing. They were drafted for long term potential.
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Hes got as many points in 18 games this year as he had in 33 last year, big improvement but he needs to stay
for a senior season..
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Wesley, Lazar, JFB, and Jae had little to no chance - until they did. Dominic James was thought to be an NBA player from very early in his MU career - until he wasn't.
Watching his improvement, I wouldn't bet against Vander.
But would you bet on him?
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MU82
Being a 20 year old might work in his favor. That extra year of being coached at higher level might be what a team would be looking for. Age factors into things and being a young Jr. in college is a positive. Paying guys to play is different story and teams draft for different reasons. Just look at the number of high school kids drafted early and never did a thing. They were drafted for long term potential.
I hear ya, Goose. But I still say there is not one GM in the league who would make Vander a top-14 draft pick, or even a top-30.
The difference between drafting a prep kid and even a kid who has played only one year of college is night and day because college kids have a real track record against real competition. NBA teams HATED the prep-eligible rule and are thrilled it no longer exists.
Also, of all "let's take a flier on this young kid" high draft picks, how many were skinny 6-3 or 6-4 kids without proven point-guard skills and without a proven jumpshot?
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As juniors, neither are/were good NBA prospects.
That is my sense as well. He will have to make big strides to get to the next level. McNeal made enough strides to land for a cup of coffee.
We should just look at DJO...here's a kid that got drafted and couldn't stick, either. I think DJO is a better player than Vander will become. Just my two cents. Vander has more size than DJO, but he doesn't do well the things he has to at his size for the NBA, that's part of the problem.
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Vander has a good 3 inches on DJO at least. That's important in the NBA. Not everyone has to be a scorer to stick, it just helps overcome other deficiencies at times.
No chance. DJO was 6'3" (in shoes) and 6'1.5" without at the NBA combine. MU lists Vander at 6'4" and, given past Combine results, is typically generous. Also, DJO has an NBA body. Strong. Physical.
Maybe not everybody has to be a scorer to stick, but if you want to be a 6'3" two guard in the NBA, you'd better be a big-time scorer.
I hope he makes it (after 2014, of course). Really do. But for that to happen, he's either going to have to show some point guard skills or become an elite scorer/shooter. Being athletic isn't enough.
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In your world (and i'll grant officially according to the NBA) a guy who signs a contract but never plays a second before being cut is an NBA player. In mine you have to play to be considered a player. I also don't think that a singer who signs a contract with Columbia records but never records anything with them is a Columbia recording artist.
But for the sake of a wager I'm willing to give Jerel credit for his contract. Here's my offer: Jerel vs Vander, first 5 years after college professional success. $100 for signing an NBA contract (limit 1 per player) + $1 per minute of playing time in regular or playoff games. You're ahead right now by a hundred and if Vander never gets a sniff you'll win at least that much. Conditions accepted?
Well, like I said, I'm not betting against the kid so I would say no, conditions not accepted. I hope the kid makes it, I just think he isn't ready today just as I didn't think McNeal was ready his junior year.
I'm not sure I follow your singer analogy. Remember,to be part of a team it's not just about the games. Prep time, practice time, etc...you're under contract to be a player and be ready to go in. You're paid whether you play in a real game or not, but you prepare in practice, film room, strategy sessions, etc, just like the other 11 guys that are also paid. If you are called to get in, you're called to get in. Some of it is a matter of luck. There have been players that got to play that were not as good as McNeal, but because the team was up 20 points in the 4th quarter or down 20, they got an opportunity. McNeal didn't, maybe someday he will. For now, I go on what the NBA says.
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As a senior at Indiana in 2000, A.J. Guyton averaged 20 points. He was a career 41 percent 3-point shooter who also averaged 3 assists and 3 rebounds. He was a little shorter than Vander but had a similar body type.
He was a second-round pick. Played 80 games over three seasons and was never heard from again.
This kid could really, really shoot but simply couldn't overcome his body size.
It takes a special, special, special kid to be a smallish 2-guard in the NBA. That specialness usually means an incredible shooting stroke. And even then, it's tough.
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I'm not sure I follow your singer analogy. Remember,to be part of a team it's not just about the games. Prep time, practice time, etc...you're under contract to be a player and be ready to go in. You're paid whether you play in a real game or not, but you prepare in practice, film room, strategy sessions, etc, just like the other 11 guys that are also paid. If you are called to get in, you're called to get in. Some of it is a matter of luck. There have been players that got to play that were not as good as McNeal, but because the team was up 20 points in the 4th quarter or down 20, they got an opportunity. McNeal didn't, maybe someday he will. For now, I go on what the NBA says.
I'm surprised you can't follow my singer analogy. In it, the singer is part of the Columbia Records team. He/she attends meetings and "practices" songs under the watchful eye of company executives. He/she may be compensated while touring, etc, and whether they actually record may be a matter of luck (finding the right material,etc). I'm sure some who never record are better singers (in someone's eyes anyway) than those who do. But since they never record (play) it's not fair to call him/her a Columbia Recording artist (NBA player).
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Guys in NBA obviously see things differently than we do. If VB is considering going pro someone has to be telling him what the big boys think. That does not make him a sure fire pro by any means but because guys on here think he cannot make it really means nothing.
If someone would have told me Chris Crawford would have had the career he had I would have taken any bet on that. Athleticism and speed goes a long way, plus he has good basketball frame to grown into.
For sure. The guys working in the NBA know what to look for in players much more than most here and surely myself. Extreme devotion to our Marquette basketball team doesn't mean we are well versed in the next level of basketball.
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On Pomeroy's similar player rating system, he rated Vander's sophomore season very similar to Wes's. This year his season rates similar's to DJO's junior year.
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VDB=PRO
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I'm surprised you can't follow my singer analogy. In it, the singer is part of the Columbia Records team. He/she attends meetings and "practices" songs under the watchful eye of company executives. He/she may be compensated while touring, etc, and whether they actually record may be a matter of luck (finding the right material,etc). I'm sure some who never record are better singers (in someone's eyes anyway) than those who do. But since they never record (play) it's not fair to call him/her a Columbia Recording artist (NBA player).
I don't follow it because it makes no sense. A NBA roster has 12 players under contract. If you are on the roster and under contract, you are ON the team. So says the NBA. Whether you play or not, you are on the team.
How this applies to your comparison, quite frankly, is not remotely analogous. I don't know if it is because you are disappointed that the NBA's official recognition differs from your POV or what, but Jerel McNeal was a paid player in the NBA, on a roster, and recognized as such by the NBA. It's open and shut.
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Strangely, I think Blue's best shot at getting drafted is actually this June. Scouts are not looking forward to this summer's draft because it is absolutely terrible. It would be impossible for the following year's draft to not be better...and probably MUCH better. In fact, there actually might be better talent in the d-league than this year's draft class. Still, he's no more than a second rounder, at best.
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Certainly not the end all, be all, but here are a few of the ratings out there.
NBA DRAFT.net has top 100 players and no MU player is there for 2013 draft. http://www.nbadraft.net/ranking/bigboard
Draft Express has Vander 46th best junior (DG rated ahead of him at 38...Jamil at 81), but no MU player in top 100 overall http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/Top-100-Prospects/
I went through about 5 to 7 others that have mock drafts for 2013 and 2014 and he isn't on any lists right now. I suspect he could be for 2014, but find it to be a stretch that he would be on any 2013 list any time soon.
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#81 according to Chad Ford. I would say 20% chance he would get drafted should he leave after this year, which I, of course, would prefer did not happen.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/player/_/id/19605/vander-blue (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/player/_/id/19605/vander-blue)
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#81 according to Chad Ford. I would say 20% chance he would get drafted should he leave after this year, which I, of course, would prefer did not happen.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/player/_/id/19605/vander-blue (http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/player/_/id/19605/vander-blue)
Another thing to consider is that he is at best a late second right now. That would mean no guaranteed contract.
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Another thing to consider is that he is at best a late second right now. That would mean no guaranteed contract.
Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.
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Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.
i was just going to mention jimmy butler (as he's currently beating on the bucks)...remember how he was the guy that couldn't make a lay-up to save his life as he would draw contact (and often the foul), but couldn't finish...seems like he progressed well. people have been trying to write vander off for a long time. the fact is he plays really solid defense, has great athleticism/quickness, and gets better ever year. if his game continues to improve at the rate that is has since he set foot at mu, i see him getting drafted. mcneal is a bad comparison...not nearly the athlete.
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i was just going to mention jimmy butler (as he's currently beating on the bucks)...remember how he was the guy that couldn't make a lay-up to save his life as he would draw contact (and often the foul), but couldn't finish...seems like he progressed well. people have been trying to write vander off for a long time. the fact is he plays really solid defense, has great athleticism/quickness, and gets better ever year. if his game continues to improve at the rate that is has since he set foot at mu, i see him getting drafted. mcneal is a bad comparison...not nearly the athlete.
Honestly, no, I don't remember JB being a guy that missed a lot of layups...certainly not at the level VB did and VB often missed them without the contact. VB is a wonderful athlete, unfortunately doesn't have JB's size so he has to be really proficient in some other areas (either passing as a PG or shooting). As Lenny said, lots of golf left, hope he makes it. McNeal, by the way, was a good athlete which is one reason why he had so many more rebounds than VB....nearly 5 rebounds per game compared to 3.5.
I think people are having some short memories around here about McNeal...MU's all time leading scorer, Big East Defensive Player of the Year, all time steals leader, top 10 all time in assists, etc.
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I agree with Chicos. Jimmy had a nose for the bucket from day one. He did not have the problems with layups and no footers that VB did last season.
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Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.
+1. There's at least 13 games left, including the bulk of the games that matter most in the season and Vander's positioning for the draft, Ferguson is transferring to somewhere like Radford, and Otule is welcome back next year (though with 14 games left in the season it would have been best for him to just move on). Let's shelf this and sub it for some of the painful offseason debates that we usually see.
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Where were JFB and Jae on Jan 30th of their senior year? Lotta golf left.
I have said that, too.
As we speak, Vander is not a serious NBA prospect at all. A dozen more games even 2/3 as good as the last one, and he will be.
Gotta let him tee it up a bunch more times. Fore!
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I recall Vander (recently) saying that there was a world of difference between high school and college. Compared to how he played in high school, I'd say the biggest thing he lacks is confidence and that "killer instinct." Seems to me like he was a beast in high school and he knew it; he got to college and was humbled by the jump in competition. I really want to see him regain that drive and killer instinct that he had in high school. His defense is as good as ever though, I love Blue as a defender--I hope he continues to play well on both ends of the floor.
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AJ was a barely 6 foot tall 3 point shooter, with not much athletecism.....A good comparison would probably be towel waving sensation Kent Bazemore of the Golden State Golden Eagles (Warriors).
Bazemores stats at Old Dominion
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2011-12 35 31.5 15.4 40.7 32.1 63.2 3.1 6.1 0.3 2.1
2010-11 34 30.7 12.3 48.1 40.8 66.2 2.9 5.1 0.9 2.2
2009-10 36 26.7 8.4 48.6 30.0 48.6 3.4 4.2 0.5 1.9
2008-09 35 16.3 4.5 43.3 26.5 42.9 1.5 3.1 0.2 0.9
versus vander
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=vander-blue&p1=kent-bazemore
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Career 140 26.3 10.1 44.6 33.4 58.0 2.7 4.6 0.5 1.8