So I was reading the King's Court article on ESPN this morning and in there Jason King showcases what he calls his "Starting Five", the top 5 players and 3 reserves to play for a high-profile coach. http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8869847/big-ten-strength-work-schools-ncaa-tournament-college-basketball
This week he highlighted Bo Ryan, but this got me to thinking about what Buzz's "Starting Five" would be. I know he really has not been with the program for too long, but thought it would be kind of interesting to take a stab at it.
PG: Dominic James
SG: Darius Johnson-Odom
SF: Wesley Matthews
PF: Jae Crowder
C: Davante Gardner
SG: Jerel McNeal
PF: Lazar Hayward
PF: Jimmy Butler
I really wanted to include Lazar in the starting 5 over Wes, but he never really played the true 3. And really with all of the offense that is out there, it would make more sense to have a center such as Otule over Gardner, but as far as "best 5", I think Gardner takes it. Also a little tough leaving Blue out of this, but he very well might work his way up there.
Thoughts?
A whole lot of competition at the 2-3-4.
Jimmy vs Jae vs Lazar is tough. that would be a heck of a match up nightmare if you could go small, those 3, plus DJO and DJ
Butler would be the center over Gardner. There is no way you leave off the starting team Wes, Butler and Crowder, since they have proven themselves at next level.
Bo McCalebb at the point. Played 1 season under Buzz at UNO and averaged 25 a game.
Also, no Jamie McNeilly? ;)
McNeal
Matthews
Lazar
Crowder
JFB
Bench:
James
DJO
Davante
I'd probably lean to McNeal over DJO at the 2.
Jerel is in the vaunted "hate" category for MU fans with Merritt, James, possibly Cadougan, et al. but he turned from a very good defensive player to such an offensive weapon that Senior year to become the all-time scorer in school history.
I think Matthews' breakout that season overshadowed Jerel a little bit but he really was such a dynamic player on what was probably the best Marquette team over the last decade or more.
James
McNeal
Matthews
Crowder
Butler
OK, I agree with PTM, that team would be awesome, they would be all over the floor
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 24, 2013, 08:41:13 AM
I'd probably lean to McNeal over DJO at the 2.
Jerel is in the vaunted "hate" category for MU fans with Merritt, James, possibly Cadougan, et al. but he turned from a very good defensive player to such an offensive weapon that Senior year to become the all-time scorer in school history.
I think Matthews' breakout that season overshadowed Jerel a little bit but he really was such a dynamic player on what was probably the best Marquette team over the last decade or more.
DJ/Jerel/Wes's senior season was definitely Marquette's best team in over a decade. They had Final Four and then some potential until James went down. If only he hadn't broken his foot, we'd probably have another banner!!
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 24, 2013, 08:41:13 AM
I'd probably lean to McNeal over DJO at the 2.
Jerel is in the vaunted "hate" category for MU fans with Merritt, James, possibly Cadougan, et al. but he turned from a very good defensive player to such an offensive weapon that Senior year to become the all-time scorer in school history.
I think Matthews' breakout that season overshadowed Jerel a little bit but he really was such a dynamic player on what was probably the best Marquette team over the last decade or more.
Don't forget Vander Blue on MU fans' "hate list."
McNeal's senior season actually reminds me of Blue's current season. Not in terms of actual production but in terms of fans still not having confidence in him. Jerel averaged almost 20ppg, 4.5 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals and shot 40% from 3 yet when he'd miss an open look or turn the ball over, you could just feel a sense of "here we go again" in the arena. It was, and is, bizarre.
IMO, Wes' NBA success has overshadowed McNeal's collegiate career.
I guess it depends on criteria. If you look at their career, DJO being drafted and playing in the NBA already has him ahead of McNeal. But in terms of the better college player, I think I'd take Jerel. I loved DJO, but Jerel was a better defender, distributor, and rebounder. In terms of college production, this would be my team...
PG Dominic James
SG Jerel McNeal
SF Jimmy Butler
PF Jae Crowder
C Lazar Hayward
Darius Johnson-Odom
Wesley Matthews
Davante Gardner
The toughest call for me was JFB/WesMat at the 3. I picked Jimmy because he was an absolute lock-down defender. The job he did on Tu Holloway was one of the most impressive bits of defense I've ever seen. Also, Lazar starts at center because he was amazing at guarding up in size and was ridiculously productive. Obviously an undersized team, but that front line would wreak havoc on opposing teams. It would also help that nearly everyone on the team could hit the three.
But if you look at future potential...
PG Dominic James
SG Vander Blue
SF Wesley Matthews
PF Jae Crowder
C Jimmy Butler
Darius Johnson-Odom
Jerel McNeal
Lazar Hayward
I am sure people will disagree with the Blue pick, based on production, so do I. But he's showing this year that he definitely has NBA potential, and perhaps more important, that he can learn. His shot technique has improved noticeably this year and he's shooting just under 34% from 3, very respectable considering his first two years. I think he's more likely to be able to stick at the next level than any of the bench players I have here. And I know I'm leaving Davante out...much as I like him, I'm not yet convinced he'll transition to the next level, though he does have a ridiculous offensive skillset that could give him a shot. James stays on the team simply because we haven't had anyone else eclipse him at the point, no offense to Buycks or Junior.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 24, 2013, 09:11:30 AM
Don't forget Vander Blue on MU fans' "hate list."
McNeal's senior season actually reminds me of Blue's current season. Not in terms of actual production but in terms of fans still not having confidence in him. Jerel averaged almost 20ppg, 4.5 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals and shot 40% from 3 yet when he'd miss an open look or turn the ball over, you could just feel a sense of "here we go again" in the arena. It was, and is, bizarre.
IMO, Wes' NBA success has overshadowed McNeal's collegiate career.
That was a strange omission. Maybe it's become too obvious and that's why I forgot.
This is a tough choice, but I would go with
1 Dominic James
2 Wesley Matthews
3 Jimmy Butler
4 Jae Crowder
5 Lazar Hayward
Not the biggest lineup in the world, but Jae, Jimmy and Lazar were tremendous undersized rebounders.
Davante has still got a year to cement himself. But I would LOVE his low post scoring in addition to these all stars.
If we do this list again at the end of next year, do Jamil Wilson and/or Vander Blue force their way on?
Recall that Wes underperformed for his first three years. Then Buzz "took the blanket off his head" and he had a very good senior year. So JW and VB still have time.
Agree?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 24, 2013, 09:11:30 AM
Don't forget Vander Blue on MU fans' "hate list."
McNeal's senior season actually reminds me of Blue's current season. Not in terms of actual production but in terms of fans still not having confidence in him. Jerel averaged almost 20ppg, 4.5 boards, 4 assists, 2 steals and shot 40% from 3 yet when he'd miss an open look or turn the ball over, you could just feel a sense of "here we go again" in the arena. It was, and is, bizarre.
IMO, Wes' NBA success has overshadowed McNeal's collegiate career.
I agree, I stopped trying to defend him a long time ago and now I just roll my eyes at how bad everyone seems to think the leading scorer in Marquette history was.
Quote from: TJ on January 24, 2013, 11:44:38 AM
I agree, I stopped trying to defend him a long time ago and now I just roll my eyes at how bad everyone seems to think the leading scorer in Marquette history was.
No kidding. A bunch of Norman Dale's in the fanbase... no shot is acceptable until they've passed the ball 4 times.
Jerel drove me nuts sometimes. Took some bad shots and bad risks defensively. But I still want him on my team at the end of the day.
Quote from: The Golden Avalanche on January 24, 2013, 08:41:13 AM
I'd probably lean to McNeal over DJO at the 2.
Jerel is in the vaunted "hate" category for MU fans with Merritt, James, possibly Cadougan, et al. but he turned from a very good defensive player to such an offensive weapon that Senior year to become the all-time scorer in school history.
I think Matthews' breakout that season overshadowed Jerel a little bit but he really was such a dynamic player on what was probably the best Marquette team over the last decade or more.
Hmm...that's interesting...what would Buzz's "all-hate" team look like?
PG Junior Cadougan
SG Jerel McNeal
SF Vander Blue
PF Jamil Wilson
C Chris Otule
Maurice Acker
David Cubillan
Dwight Buycks
Cadougan has taken a lot of criticism every year despite being the obvious choice for the starting PG role. McNeal was playing at an All-American level and still couldn't get respect. Vander has had critics after virtually every game regardless of how well he plays, while Jamil is getting that "soft" reputation and seems to be everyone's pick for disappointment this year. Otule has been constantly doubted as a starter and had his positive contributions minimized.
On the bench, Acker and Cubillan were both guys Buzz wanted to run off and we only came to accept as contributors around the middle of their senior years. And Buycks...need I say more than the old MUScoop user "NoMoreBuycks"?
All things considered, while a bit undersized, that would still be a pretty darn good college basketball team.
Quote from: AnotherMU84 on January 24, 2013, 11:26:51 AM
Recall that Wes underperformed for his first three years. Then Buzz "took the blanket off his head" and he had a very good senior year. So JW and VB still have time.
In Wesley's own words, Buzz "took off the chains" and incorporated him in the offense more. Paid major dividends for Wes and the team. He should have been getting more shots than DJ (great player, lousy shooter) from day one but TC liked DJ as a scorer.
You could even put DJ and Ousmane on the all hate team. I remember constantly being frustrated whenever DJ would take a stupid 3 he wasn't even good at and his well documented free throw woes. I still use the phrase "Ousmane Barro hands" with regularity. I still loved Ous any way though, because how could you not? maybe he doesn't qualify. Dan Fitzgerald maybe? Just trying to find some height for our boys.
EDIT: nm, forgot the Buzz part of this team. DJ stuff is still good.
Quote from: TJ on January 24, 2013, 11:44:38 AM
I agree, I stopped trying to defend him a long time ago and now I just roll my eyes at how bad everyone seems to think the leading scorer in Marquette history was.
Jerel was a really good player, but that "leading scorer in Marquette history" tag is his undoing. When people see that, they assume that he should be the best player in MU history or at least in the team photo. He's not.
Quote from: boyonthedock on January 24, 2013, 01:06:16 PM
You could even put DJ and Ousmane on the all hate team. I remember constantly being frustrated whenever DJ would take a stupid 3 he wasn't even good at and his well documented free throw woes. I still use the phrase "Ousmane Barro hands" with regularity. I still loved Ous any way though, because how could you not? maybe he doesn't qualify. Dan Fitzgerald maybe? Just trying to find some height for our boys.
EDIT: nm, forgot the Buzz part of this team. DJ stuff is still good.
I didn't include them because this is about Buzz. Ooze never played for Buzz while James shed a lot of criticism in his senior year and his injury that season only highlighted how important he was for us. McNeal, despite being one of the best players in the country, couldn't manage to do the same.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 24, 2013, 01:07:31 PM
Jerel was a really good player, but that "leading scorer in Marquette history" tag is his undoing. When people see that, they assume that he should be the best player in MU history or at least in the team photo. He's not.
Being the all-time leading scorer means being a really good college player but generally not good enough for the NBA. At least not good enough to leave early.
Quote from: boyonthedock on January 24, 2013, 10:50:35 AM
Davante has still got a year to cement himself. But I would LOVE his low post scoring in addition to these all stars.
Imagine Gardner with the three amigos and Jimmy/Lazar. That team would fast break so much and so quickly that Gardner could simply hang out on the defensive end.
G - Dominic James
G - Jerel McNeal
G/F - Wesley Matthews
F - Jae Crowder
F - Jimmy Butler
Standard positions don't fit our team. This team would play at 100 mph.
Bench
G - Darius Johnson-Odom
G - Junior Cadougan (need someone to spell DJ when he cramps up)
F - Lazar Hayward
C - Davante Gardner
Bring those guys in to slow it down and play half-court
EDIT - Note that this was same at PTM, but didn't read other lineups before choosing my own.
Right now Jerel has is NBA-D League Team in first place...as was recently selected on the D-league Honorable Mention during the four day showing in Reno that the D-League has every year.
http://www.nba.com/dleague/bakersfield/james_major_mcneal_earn_all_2013_01_14.html
Quote from: Badgerhater on January 24, 2013, 02:03:59 PM
Imagine Gardner with the three amigos and Jimmy/Lazar. That team would fast break so much and so quickly that Gardner could simply hang out on the defensive end.
Why would you want a team on which Gardner would simply hang out on the defensive end? Gardner is an offensive player and, to put it charitably, a work in progress on defense. Wouldn't want Novak simply hanging out at the defensive end, either!