MU notes
Tom Crean is about as supportive as a coach can be when it comes to his players' outside endeavors.
But he and his staff are having a hard time trying to keep track of sophomore guard David Cubillan, who's spent much of the summer playing abroad for the Venezuelan National Team.
Internet searches reveal Venezuela went 0-6 in the recently completed Stankovic Cup, which was held in China, but box scores were non-existent. As a result, Crean has been relying on Cubillan's roommate at MU, Lazar Hayward, for updates.
"We heard he's starting, but it's very, very tough to find any information," said coach Tom Crean. "According to Lazar and Jerel (McNeal) he's been playing and that's a positive thing. You can't text him or get him on the phone; it's been more by instant messenger. I'd like to be able to have more knowledge."
Cubillan will return to the U.S. later this month along with the Venezuelan team and take part in the 10-team FIBA Americas Championship in Las Vegas. Venezuela's first game will be against the U.S on Aug. 22, a game Crean is planning to travel to watch.
Depending upon how Venezuela fares in Las Vegas, there's a chance Cubillan might not be able to take part in MU's Labor Day trip to Vancouver, British Columbia for a series of four exhibition games.
"I think (he may miss the trip), but at the same time we're also prepared for him to come right to us from Las Vegas," Crean said. "We'll just play that by ear. He's done such a good job in school, I'm not overly worried about that. If he's not with us, we know he's playing. If he's playing at that point, we know his team is playing well."
The schedule has MU leaving on Aug. 31 and then playing two games each of the next two days before returning to Milwaukee on Sept. 3.
On Sept. 1, the Golden Eagles will play the Douglas/Vancouver All-Stars at noon and University College of Fraser Valley at 8 p.m. On Sept. 2, they'll play Douglas College at 10 a.m. and the University of Victoria at 8 p.m.
MU has four of its NCAA-allotted 10 practices remaining, and Crean is planning on using them just prior to leaving for Vancouver.
"We won't do anything until school starts, and they'll be with the whole team," he said. "We'll do four within the five days - Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, possibly move one of them to Friday morning before we leave that afternoon. That's all we have left and that's how we timed it. It worked out perfect."
Blackledge update: It's beginning to sound more and more like forward Lawrence Blackledge will be back with the Golden Eagles for his senior season.
Blackledge had been on shaky ground after being declared academically ineligible by MU late last season, but apparently turned things around with a solid performance in the classroom over the summer.
When asked about his status, Crean sounded optimistic.
"He finished the last week of summer school," said Crean. "He's done a good job to this point. No real issues there."
Remembering Skip: Crean was understandably shaken by the July 26 death of Wake Forest coach Skip Prosser, who succumbed to a heart attack while jogging on a track at his school's campus.
"I was with him the day before he passed away at the AAU Super Showcase in Orlando," said Crean. "That morning I was with his son (Mark), who's an assistant at Bucknell, in the concession line and for the National Anthem. I've known him for a long, long time. It's a tough thing to put into any sort of perspective."
"One of my recollections is how healthy and young he looked," said Crean. "He was a very young 56 but obviously something in his body was not, with his heart. He was one of the first guys who really gave me the time of day when I was coaching at Mount Pleasant High School and Alma College," he said. "We developed a really good friendship at that point."
As a head coach, Crean matched wits with Prosser three times, twice when Prosser was at Xavier and once after he moved to Wake Forest. The Golden Eagles' 68-61 victory over the Demon Deacons at the Bradley Center in February, 2003 was one of their most impressive of the season as they made their march to the Final Four.
Still looking: Aside from the home-and-home series that Alabama turned down earlier in the off-season, MU had discussions with a number of other notable teams regarding a similar setup.
Most notable were Gonzaga, Maryland and Texas. Gonzaga wanted to play a home-and-home that would have taken place this season in Chicago and next season in Seattle, but MU wasn't interested unless this year's game was played at the Bradley Center. Maryland and Texas both wanted MU to open up the series there, something the Golden Eagles weren't willing to do considering they're already playing in the Maui Invitational and at Wisconsin, not to mention the nine Big East road games they'll now be playing.
MU was also a candidate to play Washington State in the Pete Newell Classic and explored a series with Tennessee as well.
Shooting around: Former assistant coach Jason Rabedeaux has returned from his personal leave of absence and is now serving in his new role of director of basketball operations...
MU hopes to have 6-foot-10 big man Frank Ben-Eze of Bishop O-Connell High School in Arlington, Va. in for an official visit sometime before the end of the month...
Diamond Taylor, a 6-3 junior guard from Westchester (Ill.) St. Joseph's, made an unofficial visit to MU last Monday. On Thursday, 6-4 junior guard Joseph Bertrand from Sterling (Ill.) and 6-5 sophomore forward Marquis Mason of Madison East were on campus, and took part in pickup games following a Golden Eagles practice...
Crean said that senior forward Ousmane Barro was contemplating an invitation to play for the Senegalese National Team, but wasn't sure he'd ultimately accept...
Crean recently attended the weddings of former players Steve Novak and Brian Barone. He said all but two members of the Final Four team attended Novak's wedding and all but three members of MU's 2005-06 team (Novak's senior year).
http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2007/08/12/mu-notes.aspx
As a West Coaster (Nor Cal), this really wet my pants:
MU was also a candidate to play Washington State in the Pete Newell Classic and explored a series with Tennessee as well.
The Pete Newell Classic is a SWEEEEEET venue!
Caught the Stanford-Duke game (when Casey Jacobsen hit the game-winner and Tiger danced on the sidelines) and the Cal-UNC game in the Newell Classic!
Most notable were Gonzaga, Maryland and Texas. Gonzaga wanted to play a home-and-home that would have taken place this season in Chicago and next season in Seattle, but MU wasn't interested unless this year's game was played at the Bradley Center. Maryland and Texas both wanted MU to open up the series there, something the Golden Eagles weren't willing to do considering they're already playing in the Maui Invitational and at Wisconsin, not to mention the nine Big East road games they'll now be playing.
So .. the Gonzaga thing .. wonder why they didn't want to play at the BC?
But what's the deal with turning down Maryland and Texas? From that quote, it seemed like we'd need to go to their house first .. and we turned that down?
Seems rather inflexible to turn down a H&H just because you don't go first. Yeah, it makes your road schedule tougher this year, but next year, you get 'em at home. Plus, this year's team should be plenty tough. Who knows if all 3 Amigos will be back for 2008-9. -- The reason stated was @UW and @Maui .. well, since we seem to try and play a pre-season tourny every year now .. it's not like there's an "easy" year to ever have an away H&H versus a powerhouse.
Hmm!
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 13, 2007, 08:20:20 AM
But what's the deal with turning down Maryland and Texas? From that quote, it seemed like we'd need to go to their house first .. and we turned that down?
Seems rather inflexible to turn down a H&H just because you don't go first. Yeah, it makes your road schedule tougher this year, but next year, you get 'em at home.
As a season ticket holder I would be livid if I had to watch 9 Big East games, UW and Texas all at the BC next season...just livid.
/sarcasm off
...especially if the Texas game bumped out the big Savannah State game. Livid.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 13, 2007, 08:20:20 AM
But what's the deal with turning down Maryland and Texas? From that quote, it seemed like we'd need to go to their house first .. and we turned that down?
Seems rather inflexible to turn down a H&H just because you don't go first. Yeah, it makes your road schedule tougher this year, but next year, you get 'em at home. Plus, this year's team should be plenty tough. Who knows if all 3 Amigos will be back for 2008-9. -- The reason stated was @UW and @Maui .. well, since we seem to try and play a pre-season tourny every year now .. it's not like there's an "easy" year to ever have an away H&H versus a powerhouse.
Hmm!
Don't forget--it wasn't just MU that turned down the deal if they didn't get the home game first---Texas and Maryland made hosting the first game a condition of the deal, and both apparently turned down the series unless they got the home game first. They obviously feel they're superior to MU and think can dictate the terms of the engagement. Well, their fans now miss out on a quality opponent, too.
Second, I think there's the very real possiblity that the other schools would have bought out the return game. By insisting on the home game first, MU is assured that we'll definitely get a home game out of it. If I recall that's what happened with UNC a few years back.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 13, 2007, 08:20:20 AM
Most notable were Gonzaga, Maryland and Texas. Gonzaga wanted to play a home-and-home that would have taken place this season in Chicago and next season in Seattle, but MU wasn't interested unless this year's game was played at the Bradley Center. Maryland and Texas both wanted MU to open up the series there, something the Golden Eagles weren't willing to do considering they're already playing in the Maui Invitational and at Wisconsin, not to mention the nine Big East road games they'll now be playing.
So .. the Gonzaga thing .. wonder why they didn't want to play at the BC?
But what's the deal with turning down Maryland and Texas? From that quote, it seemed like we'd need to go to their house first .. and we turned that down?
Seems rather inflexible to turn down a H&H just because you don't go first. Yeah, it makes your road schedule tougher this year, but next year, you get 'em at home. Plus, this year's team should be plenty tough. Who knows if all 3 Amigos will be back for 2008-9. -- The reason stated was @UW and @Maui .. well, since we seem to try and play a pre-season tourny every year now .. it's not like there's an "easy" year to ever have an away H&H versus a powerhouse.
Hmm!
It is not just another road game but rather the loss of a home date which means less revenue to run the athletic dept. When the BE expanded to an 18 game schedule, MU's scheduling flexablity became very little. They can truly only afford one road NC game a year.
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 09:05:41 AM
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 13, 2007, 08:20:20 AM
But what's the deal with turning down Maryland and Texas? From that quote, it seemed like we'd need to go to their house first .. and we turned that down?
Seems rather inflexible to turn down a H&H just because you don't go first. Yeah, it makes your road schedule tougher this year, but next year, you get 'em at home. Plus, this year's team should be plenty tough. Who knows if all 3 Amigos will be back for 2008-9. -- The reason stated was @UW and @Maui .. well, since we seem to try and play a pre-season tourny every year now .. it's not like there's an "easy" year to ever have an away H&H versus a powerhouse.
Hmm!
Don't forget--it wasn't just MU that turned down the deal if they didn't get the home game first---Texas and Maryland made hosting the first game a condition of the deal, and both apparently turned down the series unless they got the home game first. They obviously feel they're superior to MU and think can dictate the terms of the engagement. Well, their fans now miss out on a quality opponent, too.
Second, I think there's the very real possiblity that the other schools would have bought out the return game. By insisting on the home game first, MU is assured that we'll definitely get a home game out of it. If I recall that's what happened with UNC a few years back.
SJS, we're not living in CUSA anymore, we're a ranked school in the Big East. If they tried to buy us out only a handleful of teams would ever agree to schedule them again. They would be setting a horrible precedent. We're not Dayton. Texas and Maryland are not big time enough to big time us (nor am I saying we are big time enough to big time them). You should have some faith in the heirarchy that Coach Crean has placed us in...
.. and indeed, in the contract, wouldn't you make the buy-out stupendously expensive, to stop that from happening? .. You'd make the buy-out the same $$ as your home-date's revenue. It'd actually work out pretty well, making it into a buy-game road game with the same revenue as a home date.
.. and to the comment about needing the revenue, sure. But in addition to the UW H&H, I think it's reasonable to expect ONE additional H&H. The budget can't be stretched so thin ONE away game every other year is going to strangle the program.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 13, 2007, 09:33:32 AM
.. and to the comment about needing the revenue, sure. But in addition to the UW H&H, I think it's reasonable to expect ONE additional H&H. The budget can't be stretched so thin ONE away game every other year is going to strangle the program.
but one year without that revenue is not a good thing. it is a big loss and one the athletic department would not want (nor would i). what they need to do is to better schedule the H & H series so they can start a series on the road.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on August 13, 2007, 08:20:20 AM
Most notable were Gonzaga, Maryland and Texas. Gonzaga wanted to play a home-and-home that would have taken place this season in Chicago and next season in Seattle, but MU wasn't interested unless this year's game was played at the Bradley Center. Maryland and Texas both wanted MU to open up the series there, something the Golden Eagles weren't willing to do considering they're already playing in the Maui Invitational and at Wisconsin, not to mention the nine Big East road games they'll now be playing.
So .. the Gonzaga thing .. wonder why they didn't want to play at the BC?
$$$, that's why. It's why Gonzaga is playing U Conn in Boston this year, and playing Tennessee in Seattle as well. Next year U Conn will be playing Gonzaga in Seattle and Tennessee most likely in Nashville.
I think you guys are losing focus to the fact that the other school may have been in the same boat. Ie., they were looking for a home game and not a roadies to start the series due to their schedules as well. A scenario like...Hey gary or Rick let's get together..great idea but right now as our schedule sits we are only looking to schedule with a team willing to travle in the first year ..we need to fill a home game, that's too bad we are in the same boat.... Every year teams are willing to travel to start and others need a home game. Often it comes down to simply matching up those teams not that one things they are bigger than the other.
Also MU to agree to Play Gonzaga in Chicago is stupid. Basically they want us to play a road game with a greatly greatly diminished "home" court so they can show case their program to the recruitng hot bed that is Chicago (PArgo). meanwhile they play us back in Seattle. WOW! talk about one sided!! Easy one to walk away from.
MU has already given up one home game to the BE schedule, they also gave up another home game by going to the preseason tourney every year, they are not in a position to give up a third home game. Let us also not forget MU gave up millions to walk away from their C-USA NCAA units.
The Mu UNC game was a one game deal all along. UNC would not agree to a home and home and Crean agreed to travel.
I actually liked the Gonzaga/Chicago idea.
-This would help Marquette recruiting. Crean's targeting many Chicago area kids right now. Even though MU is only 90 miles up the road, this is still something to sell.
-This game would most likely have been between the 15th of December and New Years. If you've seen the MU faithful come out for a DePaul game, I think you'd see plenty of people give MU a home court advantage.
-This game would wind up on the ESPN family of networks.
-Assuming a 50/50 split in gate/concession/parking revenues, MU loses some this year, but they would get a similar 50/50 split in Seattle next year to compensate. You're borrowing from today for tomorrow, but not losing all the revenue of a true home game.
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
I actually liked the Gonzaga/Chicago idea.
-This would help Marquette recruiting. Crean's targeting many Chicago area kids right now. Even though MU is only 90 miles up the road, this is still something to sell.
-This game would most likely have been between the 15th of December and New Years. If you've seen the MU faithful come out for a DePaul game, I think you'd see plenty of people give MU a home court advantage.
-This game would wind up on the ESPN family of networks.
-Assuming a 50/50 split in gate/concession/parking revenues, MU loses some this year, but they would get a similar 50/50 split in Seattle next year to compensate. You're borrowing from today for tomorrow, but not losing all the revenue of a true home game.
It sounds enticing especially with a bigger crowd, possibly more revenue, and a more space for MU fans from the tri-state area.
But I'm with Harrison on this one: Gonzaga's only looking out for the money (and Chicagoland exposure) SANS the hostile and probably one-sided Bradley Center atmosphere. If Crean insisted on playing at the Bradley, he's only doing justice to his constituents. The season ticket holders would probably be happier driving 15-30 minutes into town for the homely confines than 1 1/2 hours to the cavernous dungeon that is the United Center.
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
I actually liked the Gonzaga/Chicago idea.
-This would help Marquette recruiting. Crean's targeting many Chicago area kids right now. Even though MU is only 90 miles up the road, this is still something to sell.
This also brings Gonzaga into Chicago. TC doesn't need much help in Chicago.
Quote-This game would most likely have been between the 15th of December and New Years. If you've seen the MU faithful come out for a DePaul game, I think you'd see plenty of people give MU a home court advantage.
They would also need to rent out the UC.
Quote-This game would wind up on the ESPN family of networks.
I would prefer CBS.
Quote-Assuming a 50/50 split in gate/concession/parking revenues, MU loses some this year, but they would get a similar 50/50 split in Seattle next year to compensate. You're borrowing from today for tomorrow, but not losing all the revenue of a true home game.
You assumed wrong. Home team keeps all of the money in these cases. There is no sharing or payments. Also, you lose money if you generate the following year. It is called the Time Value of Money.
-A neutral site game standard contract is a 50/50 spilt on revenue streams, so I am not wrong about that. There is no "home team" for an MU/Gonzaga game in Chicago or Seattle. I mentioned "borrowing from today for tomorrow", so yes, I understand the time value of money.
-Most likely, a promoter would rent out the UC for this game, in exchange for a share of the revenue. MU would not be renting out the UC. Gonzaga does not rent out Key Arena for games they play there, a promoter handles that.
-Does TC need recruiting help in Seattle?
I like the idea, (I live in Chicago, so of course I like it), but as I mentioned above, Gonzaga is the one to make the most $$$ on this.
.. I would be interested to hear a financial update from the athletic office. The "we need $" drum has been beating for years.
But you've got to figure, the amount of cash rolling into the Al is growing by leaps and bounds these past years. First, ticket prices have doubled in 5 years, and they've added hundreds of new season ticket holders .. avg. attendance has gone up 2500 over the past 3 years, sell-outs increasing .. excitement for the program at very high levels so re-seating donations have got to be very healthy .. plus NCAA March Madness units for BE schools have got to be pretty nice .. and on top of that, ESPN and their BE television deal will bring a huge amount of revenue.
I'm not saying MU is swimming in cash, and I understand all sports are playing in the BE == more costs .. but .. have the new expenses of competing in all the other sports risen more than the (above) income sources have? Dunno.
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 10:35:16 AM
I actually liked the Gonzaga/Chicago idea.
-This would help Marquette recruiting. Crean's targeting many Chicago area kids right now. Even though MU is only 90 miles up the road, this is still something to sell.
-This game would most likely have been between the 15th of December and New Years. If you've seen the MU faithful come out for a DePaul game, I think you'd see plenty of people give MU a home court advantage.
-This game would wind up on the ESPN family of networks.
-Assuming a 50/50 split in gate/concession/parking revenues, MU loses some this year, but they would get a similar 50/50 split in Seattle next year to compensate. You're borrowing from today for tomorrow, but not losing all the revenue of a true home game.
but we get to show ourself in Chicago against DePaul. Why let in an outsider to "our turf" if you don't have to?
Not in '07-'08 we're not. MU is only home against DePaul this year, no date in Chicago.
Everyone seems to not realize that while we would let Gonzaga on "our turf", you fail to forget that MU would also get to go on Gonzaga's "turf" as well.
With Crean starting to recruit more nationally, and considering that Seattle puts out some good basketball talent, I don't think this would have been a bad thing.
Quote from: Harrison on August 13, 2007, 10:12:23 AM
Basically they want us to play a road game with a greatly greatly diminished "home" court so they can show case their program to the recruitng hot bed that is Chicago (PArgo). meanwhile they play us back in Seattle. WOW! talk about one sided!! Easy one to walk away from.
I'm not saying that we should have taken this deal, but it is probably worth noting that Seattle is nearly 300 miles from Gonzaga's campus.
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 11:11:09 AM
Not in '07-'08 we're not. MU is only home against DePaul this year, no date in Chicago.
Everyone seems to not realize that while we would let Gonzaga on "our turf", you fail to forget that MU would also get to go on Gonzaga's "turf" as well.
With Crean starting to recruit more nationally, and considering that Seattle puts out some good basketball talent, I don't think this would have been a bad thing.
Is Seattle a fertile recruiting mecca like Chicago is? No
Hilltopper....MU is underwater financially for athletics. The school subsidizes the department, I don't think any of that has changed in general terms, only the dollars have changed in terms of expenditures and revenues. The dollar demands will only grow. No football is the key reason as that is the cash cow for most universities.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 13, 2007, 12:22:57 PM
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 11:11:09 AM
Not in '07-'08 we're not. MU is only home against DePaul this year, no date in Chicago.
Everyone seems to not realize that while we would let Gonzaga on "our turf", you fail to forget that MU would also get to go on Gonzaga's "turf" as well.
With Crean starting to recruit more nationally, and considering that Seattle puts out some good basketball talent, I don't think this would have been a bad thing.
Is Seattle a fertile recruiting mecca like Chicago is? No
Is Seattle/Pacific Northwest a good place to recruit? I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes. No, it's not Chicago, but I think you could come up with some talent from this list. Maybe it's just me, but it might be worth a look.
Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)
Edit: I forgot to add Adam Morrison to the list too.
Chicos is right in the sense that revenue is relative to expenditures...
I'm pretty sure Deane-o and KO didn't charter private jets for recruiting.
There are some big bills that need to be paid every month over at N 12th Street.
The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.
MU Fans: We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans: Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.
MU Fans: We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans: Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.
I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others. I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui. Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.
(I think that depends on how the UT season ticket holders perceive the value of their games. Looks like last year, UT had 9 OOC games, of which 7 were RPI 200+. If 2 high-interest homers aren't enough for them, then they probably wanted MU playing anywhere, whoever gets to go first. In that regard, MU and UT ticket holders may calculate similarly.)
.. but I agree w/jmayer1. Wonder if setting this in motion for next year was an option.
The Texas match up would have been fun, two very talented point guards going against each other with the same name. Oh well I can understand not wanting another road trip this year.
Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)
This list means nothing...10 players over 5-6-7 years? So waht? Look at it they either stayed local or went to huge programs ala Duke, UclA etc. We can get the same type of players locally and not try to convince them to go acroos the country to school. Most kids that do go all the way across the country just like on that list do it to go to UNC, DUKE, Kansas etc. That list makes no sense. Giving up a home game to play Gonzaga at the UC is ajoke and MU rejected it as that. Rent the UC to get 8k Mu fans there?! Dont compare it to the 14k at a depaul game at the Rosemont. I have been to at least 15 of those games. Yes Mu shows very well but there are also at least 5-6-7-8k Depaul fans there to get the number to 14K, take them away at the UC and you take a fat cash cow gate at the bradley Center and turn it into a huge loser at the UC. How many casula Basketball fans are ging to go watch Gonzaga in Chicago? Remeber the old MU- Depaul games with 5000 people at the UC? All Mu fans what ajoke. At least Depaul took the bath on that one. And how impressive would it be for a recruit to go to the game with 5000 people in a 25000 seat stadium?? Better off bringing them up for the ND game or pittsburgh etc. at the Bradley. That offer was a lose lose, Mu i am sure rejected it in approx. 1 second.
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 12:44:57 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 13, 2007, 12:22:57 PM
Quote from: MUDish on August 13, 2007, 11:11:09 AM
Not in '07-'08 we're not. MU is only home against DePaul this year, no date in Chicago.
Everyone seems to not realize that while we would let Gonzaga on "our turf", you fail to forget that MU would also get to go on Gonzaga's "turf" as well.
With Crean starting to recruit more nationally, and considering that Seattle puts out some good basketball talent, I don't think this would have been a bad thing.
Is Seattle a fertile recruiting mecca like Chicago is? No
Is Seattle/Pacific Northwest a good place to recruit? I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes. No, it's not Chicago, but I think you could come up with some talent from this list. Maybe it's just me, but it might be worth a look.
Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)
Edit: I forgot to add Adam Morrison to the list too.
Dish, the ROI isn't there. Northwest guys by and large go to Pac Ten schools or western regional schools. MU is going to get kids from Illinois, specifically Chicago, the rest of the Midwest and the East Coast.
Yes there is talent in the Seattle area, but then again many of the guys you listed aren't from Seattle but from the state of Washington or Oregon. I'd rather keep Chicago to MU and the rest of the Midwestern schools then invite another school into the area that has already landed some Illinois talent like Pargo.
I thought the "charter jet" was being discounted heavily to MU for recruiting.
I think you're right, KO and Deane did not have that luxury recruiting.
KO did charter the team to some games as did Deane on rare occasion, but not like today. That's part of the gig....first class program is going to demand those types of perks.
Quote from: Harrison on August 13, 2007, 02:31:09 PM
Spencer Hawes
Jon Brockman
Martell Webster
Micah Downs
Marcus Williams
Josh Heytvelt (police blotter aside)
C.J. Giles
David Pendergraft
Aaron Brooks
Brandon Roy
Nate Robinson
Kevin Love
Kyle Singler
Isaiah Thomas (no, not him)
This list means nothing...10 players over 5-6-7 years? So waht? Look at it they either stayed local or went to huge programs ala Duke, UclA etc. We can get the same type of players locally and not try to convince them to go acroos the country to school. Most kids that do go all the way across the country just like on that list do it to go to UNC, DUKE, Kansas etc. That list makes no sense. Giving up a home game to play Gonzaga at the UC is ajoke and MU rejected it as that. Rent the UC to get 8k Mu fans there?! Dont compare it to the 14k at a depaul game at the Rosemont. I have been to at least 15 of those games. Yes Mu shows very well but there are also at least 5-6-7-8k Depaul fans there to get the number to 14K, take them away at the UC and you take a fat cash cow gate at the bradley Center and turn it into a huge loser at the UC. How many casula Basketball fans are ging to go watch Gonzaga in Chicago? Remeber the old MU- Depaul games with 5000 people at the UC? All Mu fans what ajoke. At least Depaul took the bath on that one. And how impressive would it be for a recruit to go to the game with 5000 people in a 25000 seat stadium?? Better off bringing them up for the ND game or pittsburgh etc. at the Bradley. That offer was a lose lose, Mu i am sure rejected it in approx. 1 second.
This list makes sense if you go back and read the original post. Put that list back in with the context of the posts, and it makes all the sense in the world. Is MU going to go out and actively recruit those players? Heck no. Saying Chicago is a mecca for recruiting, and Seattle is fertile, is exactly where this list comes into play. Take it for what it's worth.
Again, MU wouldn't be renting out the UC (or Allstate or Sears Centre...there are other places in Chicago you know), a promoter does that. Is it more impressive to bring a recruit up to the BC? Absolutely, get 'em on campus and at a home game. Does it hurt to play in Chicago, during a season when you don't have a game there otherwise? Absolutely not.
Quote from: jmayer1 on August 13, 2007, 01:08:13 PM
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.
MU Fans: We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans: Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.
I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others. I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui. Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.
In other words, you're willing to give Texas a two year pass on playing us in Milwaukee?
MU proposed playing at Texas in '08 (just as you suggest). But MU wanted Texas to come to Milwaukee in
2007. You say it's fine by you if Texas delays that 2007 game until
2009.
My point was that MU fans seem too willing to accept the subservient position that we should give in to Texas, rather than vice versa.
Steve Novak and Brian Barone got married? Kind of a dangling participle there, but I will assume not to each other.
Quote from: tower912 on August 13, 2007, 05:51:40 PM
Steve Novak and Brian Barone got married? Kind of a dangling participle there, but I will assume not to each other.
LOL! Thanks for the laugh. But back to the matter of recruiting in WA...
I see Dish's point. It's a valid one. Seattle and the Northwest is a becoming a hotbed for recruits. Even though Chicago is traditionally a source of prepsters, the Northwest has spawned the following NBAers: Jason Terry, Marvin Williams, Brandon Roy, Nate Robinson, Fred Jones, and the Stoudamires (Damon and Salim) just to name a few.
But in terms of recruiting
nationwide, Gonzaga has us beat. HECK, even WORLDWIDE, Gonzaga's done better!
There's a mystique about Gonzaga...even though it doesn't fit anymore - at least to me, they still seem like a "Cinderella" though they play tough non-conference games.
Which brings up a similar yet divergent question: Is there ANY mystique to MU's program?
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 04:40:02 PM
Quote from: jmayer1 on August 13, 2007, 01:08:13 PM
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.
MU Fans: We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans: Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.
I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others. I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui. Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.
In other words, you're willing to give Texas a two year pass on playing us in Milwaukee?
MU proposed playing at Texas in '08 (just as you suggest). But MU wanted Texas to come to Milwaukee in 2007. You say it's fine by you if Texas delays that 2007 game until 2009.
My point was that MU fans seem too willing to accept the subservient position that we should give in to Texas, rather than vice versa.
Or maybe MU fans just want more good preconf games and less Savannah States and we're willing to wait to 2009. Sometimes it's about getting the deal done, not just winning the deal.
As for Gonzaga...thousands and thousands of MU alums in Chi might argue that playing there would be a good thing. Forget about showcasing The Zags to Chicago, how about reaffirming our place as the best option of Chicago preps? I could careless about recruiting in Seattle, heck I could careless about recruiting in NYC (I say lock up Chicago & surrounding and you're fine).
And do people really think one game in Chicago is going to erase huge obstacles like the distance to Spokane, the culture of eastern Washington and the non BCS conference?
yes another top program matchup would nothing but good things for this program, but i'm proud of MU for not backing down against these schools that thought they could push us around.
Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.
Quote from: ecompt on August 14, 2007, 08:45:50 AM
Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.
c'mon, pepperdine has made the tournament in the last decade...i think
Quote from: Schoolyard on August 13, 2007, 10:10:29 PM
As for Gonzaga...thousands and thousands of MU alums in Chi might argue that playing there would be a good thing. Forget about showcasing The Zags to Chicago, how about reaffirming our place as the best option of Chicago preps? I could careless about recruiting in Seattle, heck I could careless about recruiting in NYC (I say lock up Chicago & surrounding and you're fine).
And do people really think one game in Chicago is going to erase huge obstacles like the distance to Spokane, the culture of eastern Washington and the non BCS conference?
Never give up a true home game.....not with an 18 game Big East slate staring you in the face.
Quote from: ecompt on August 14, 2007, 08:45:50 AM
Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.
Gonzaga has been successful in pulling recruits not only in their immediate region but also from all over the continent and globe. Marquette is beginning to lure more recruits from outside their Great Lakes/Midwest region.
The WCC may be a joke but their program has been as successful - if not more - than MU's in the past decade:
NCAA/NITs1996-7 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga
none1997-8 - Marquette Third Round NIT; Gonzaga
none1998-9 - Marquette
none; Gonzaga Elite Eight NCAA
1999-0 - Marquette First Round NIT; Gonzaga Sweet Sixteen NCAA
2000-1 - Marquette
none; Gonzaga Sweet Sixteen NCAA
2001-2 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga First Round NCAA
2002-3 - Marquette Final Four NCAA; Gonzaga Second Round NCAA
2003-4 - Marquette Third Round NIT; Gonzaga Second Round NCAA
2004-5 - Marquette First Round NIT; Gonzaga Second Round NCAA
2005-6 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga Third Round NCAA
2006-7 - Marquette First Round NCAA; Gonzaga First Round NCAA
And granted while the WCC is no Big East, it's still an accomplishment when Gonzaga has claimed the WCC Championship from 1998 - 2007!!!
I don't know why everyone is making such a huge deal about this when Crean has already gone on the record in saying that on the years we play UW away, that will be our only true road non-conference game
Quote from: ecompt on August 14, 2007, 08:45:50 AM
Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.
Who cares? I don't get this false sense of worth because we're in the Big East. Do you think Marquette gets the same amount of national recognition that Gonzaga does? If you do, you're crazy. Gonzaga is a bigger name than Marquette right now, whether you want to admit it or not.
As a matter of fact, I would bet that a vast majority of college basketball fans have no idea we're even in the Big East. We're thought of as the place where Al McGuire coached, Dwyane Wade attended and as the school that embarrassingly changed a perfectly good nickname. Gonzaga is known as a school that is in the NCAA every year and is a team NOBODY wants to face in the first round, regardless of seed.
I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.
Other numbers for those 11 seasons:
NCAA Appearances: MU 5, GU 9 straight
NIT Appearances: MU 4, GU 0
NCAA Wins: MU 4, GU 12
NCAA One and Dones: MU 4 of 5, GU 2 of 9.
FFs: MU 1, GU 0.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 14, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: ecompt on August 14, 2007, 08:45:50 AM
Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.
Who cares? I don't get this false sense of worth because we're in the Big East. Do you think Marquette gets the same amount of national recognition that Gonzaga does? If you do, you're crazy. Gonzaga is a bigger name than Marquette right now, whether you want to admit it or not.
As a matter of fact, I would bet that a vast majority of college basketball fans have no idea we're even in the Big East. We're thought of as the place where Al McGuire coached, Dwyane Wade attended and as the school that embarrassingly changed a perfectly good nickname. Gonzaga is known as a school that is in the NCAA every year and is a team NOBODY wants to face in the first round, regardless of seed.
I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.
The only thing is that in Big East you have a chance to win a National Title. As great as Gonzaga is, I don't think they have much of a shot of winning one. Being in the Big East gives Marquette that shot as it gives them a recruiting edge.
I heard a stat a while back that every national championship going back something like 10 years has had at least 3 NBA players on it. I would be hard pressed to see Gonzaga have that happen while I think MU could.
Let's be fair guys, Gonzaga has a much easier road to the NCAAs then MU has, even when MU was in CUSA.
Gonzaga essentially has 13 wins before the season starts in conference play alone. They rarely lose more than 2 or 3 games in conference.
What they've done is terrific, but they also are in a unique position to dominate a conference that has few resources where other schools are not likely to challenge. Gonzaga was very smart to exploit that in the WCC. Some schools like Santa Clara and USD are saying they want to challenge, but until the money really backs up their comments I won't believe it until I see it.
I think the poster that said Gonzaga would be .500 in the Big East might be right, I'd say slightly over .500 probably similar to where MU has been the last few years.
Let's put it this way, if MU was in the WCC instead of Gonzaga, MU would be going to the NCAAs every year as well. It's setup much the way UNLV used to plow through the Big West each year.
In the last 10 years, Gonzaga had one year they lost 4 conference games, two years they lost 3 and every other year it was either undefeated or 1 loss.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 14, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.
Wait ... the guy who constantly is griping about MU's schedule now would trade his tickets for games against UConn, Pitt, Louisville, Notre Dame, Georgetown and Syracuse for one against the likes of Portland, St. Mary's, San Diego, Santa Clara and Loyola-Marymount?
Hmmm. Somehow this statement doesn't ring remotely true. But in case I'm wrong, perhaps you can petition to athletic department about joining the Horizon League. And be sure to tell them you won't complain about those big February matchups with Cleveland State and UIC.
I have complained about our NON-CONFERENCE!!!! schedule, Einstein. You do understand that those are the games MU has control over, right? But it's great that you enjoy paying paying for tickets for the Hillsdale and Cardinal Stritch games.
By the way, we haven't won an NCAA game in four years.
Sorry PRN--possibly steroids, I don't know--but Pakuni crushed that one, outta the park.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 14, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
I have complained about our NON-CONFERENCE!!!! schedule, Einstein. You do understand that those are the games MU has control over, right? But it's great that you enjoy paying paying for tickets for the Hillsdale and Cardinal Stritch games.
I understand your point, but here's what the Gonzaga faithful have paid for recently:
2006-2007Eastern Washington
Rice
Baylor
Texas-San Antonio
Idaho
Portland State
Washington
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
San Francisco
San Diego
Saint Mary's
Santa Clara
Portland
2005-2006Idaho
Portland State
Washington State
Virginia
Eastern Washington
St. Josephs
Pepperdine
Loyola Marymount
Portland
Santa Clara
St. Mary's
Stanford
San Diego
San Francisco
2004-200Portland State
Montana
Idaho
Washington
St. Louis
Eastern Washington
Loyola Marymount
Pepperdine
Portland
St. Mary's
Santa Clara
San Diego
San Francisco
Northern Colorado
Not sure I'd want to pay for those slates. A few decent games, but basically trash. So, you can say what you want about games that MU has control over, but at least they decided to join a decent conference and bring top flight competition into the BC. I think there's very little disagreement on this board about whether we'd like to see better non-con games, but I think most would rather see a Big East slate with non-con dogs than Gonzaga's slate. I'm sure MU could probably leave the Big East and get into a third-rate conference if they wanted, and then NEED a decent non-con schedule to try to throw together a decent RPI and impressive wins, but I'd rather be where we are right now--even if it means missing out on the NCAAs some years.
StillAWarrior...I don't think Chico is complaining about playing against top BE teams, but look at the non-conference schedule. Granted, being in the Big East has its perks (top RPI teams) but also it's disadvantages (not much wiggle room for non-conf games). Looking at their non-conf schedule you can't but help to applaud their sports department:
2006-07
Eastern Washington
Rice (feat. Morris Almond) - NIT Tip-Off
Baylor - NIT Tip-Off
UTSA
UNC - NIT Semi-Final
Butler - NIT Final
Idaho
Texas
Washington State
Washington
Georgia
Duke
Nevada
Virginia
Stanford
Memphis
Most of the above non-conf teams were in the NCAAs...
2005-06
Idaho
Maryland - Maui
Michigan State - Maui
UConn - Maui
Portland State
Washington
Washington State
Oklahoma State
Virginia
Eastern Washington
St. Louis
Memphis
St. Joseph's
Stanford
2004-05
Portland State
Montana
Idaho
Illinois
Washington
Washington State
Eastern Washington
UMass
St. Louis
Georgia Tech
Oklahoma State
Missouri
Northern Colorado
They could be filling in the slots with likes of Central Washington, Northern Arizona, Weber State, Sacramento State, UC Riverside, CSU Bakersfield, or even the small colleges like Seattle U., Lewis and Clark, etc.
MU needs to do it's best to find a balance between "blowout win" and "stiff competition" for their non-conference games.
Quote from: MOwarrior on August 14, 2007, 02:38:09 PM
Sorry PRN--possibly steroids, I don't know--but Pakuni crushed that one, outta the park.
Yup....that was McCovey Cove territory.
PRN, what you are saying in a round about way is that you want NCAA appearances more than a great conference and a better out of conference schedule. Well, Gonzaga has that but that means the conference you play in has to be the "give". Are you suggesting we join the Horizon League and dominate that league while playing Youngstown State, Cleveland State, UWM, etc as our conference slate goes?
Something has to give...what is the "give" in your scenario?
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on August 14, 2007, 03:16:02 PM
Looking at their non-conf schedule you can't but help to applaud their sports department...
Absolutely. I love Gonzaga's non-con schedule. But, they're forced to do that by circumstance. Once Gonzaga gets into its conference schedule, their RPI is likely to go down every game -- even when they win. They have to put together the best non-con schedule possible in order to ensure that they've got a decent RPI and a few quality wins.
I have a lot of respect for what GU has created. They've built a great program. My brother went there, so I constantly hear about it. But, being in the Big East, we don't need our non-con schedule to boost our RPI or to help us get quality wins (at least not to the degree that Gonzaga does). Like everyone else, I would like a better non-con schedule, but it's not a trade I'd be interested in making.
Great argument. I'm clearly saying I'd like to be in the Horizon League. You cannot be as clueless as Pakuni and this other dope.
I'm saying that people on this board who claim we're somehow better than Gonzaga because we're in the Big East are asinine. I'm saying, if we were Gonzaga getting bids every year and winning 9 NCAA games in 11 years I'd be happy.
This is like a child bragging that his Dad has a bigger car. Our car may be bigger, but theirs is getting a lot better gas mileage. Plus they have a much better driver behind the wheel.
Incidentally, I have repeatedly said this year's non-conference schedule is fine with me. It's the previous two years I've objected to because THEY WERE ATROCIOUS!
Actually I'm simply asking what is the "give". If you want 9 bids in 11 years, you pretty much have to join a conference like that and do what Gonzaga has done.
Do you know how many major conference teams have gone to the NCAA 9 of the last 11 years? I'll bet the number is less than 15 and probably closer to 10. When you factor in how many went 9 of the last 11 years and won their conference 9 straight years...the number might be 1, if that.
There is a tradeoff...what Gonzaga has is because of the crap conference they are in. We would all love 9 of 11 NCAA berths, but the fact of the matter is that almost no one is able to pull that off that plays in a major conference sans a handful of schools like North Carolina, Duke and Arizona.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 14, 2007, 01:53:47 PM
I have complained about our NON-CONFERENCE!!!! schedule, Einstein. You do understand that those are the games MU has control over, right? But it's great that you enjoy paying paying for tickets for the Hillsdale and Cardinal Stritch games.
By the way, we haven't won an NCAA game in four years.
So, you get your dander up over 4-5 non-conference games not to your liking, but you'd be cool with a 16-game conference schedule akin to UWM's? Interersting.
Oh, and last I checked MU also has control over its conference affiliation, and therefore control over its conference schedule, Newton.
Is Mark Few a better recruiter/coach than Tom Crean?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2007, 06:57:37 PM
Is Mark Few a better recruiter/coach than Tom Crean?
No. Few took over a program coming off an elite 8 and has had 3 sweet 16's, 1 first round exit and 3 second round exits.
Crean started with a fairly empty cupboard and has been building a program that has competed in Big East play the last 2 years with less than stellar NCAA experience. But, Crean has made it to the Final Four.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2007, 06:57:37 PM
Is Mark Few a better recruiter/coach than Tom Crean?
Don't know....has Mark Few ever coached in a top 3 conference, built a program from scratch, inherited a losing team with the recruiting class of Krunti Hester coming in?
To compare them, I'd like to see the two do something in an apples to apples comparison. That hasn't happened.
The reverse question would be, if Tom Crean was on Gonzaga's staff and inherited what Mark Few did, would they be doing worse, better or the same as what Gonzaga has done the last few years under Few?
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 04:40:02 PM
Quote from: jmayer1 on August 13, 2007, 01:08:13 PM
Quote from: Marquette84 on August 13, 2007, 12:51:54 PM
The issue I have with this topic is that both the MU and Texas/Maryland fans see this nearly-scheduled game the same way.
MU Fans: We should have just sgined on and played at Texas first.
UT fans: Marquette should should have just signed on and played at Texas first.
I disagree with this and I believe so do a lot of others. I don't think Marquette should have been signed this deal in a year when they are traveling to UW and Maui. Playing at Texas next year and then a home game the following year would have been fine with me.
In other words, you're willing to give Texas a two year pass on playing us in Milwaukee?
MU proposed playing at Texas in '08 (just as you suggest). But MU wanted Texas to come to Milwaukee in 2007. You say it's fine by you if Texas delays that 2007 game until 2009.
My point was that MU fans seem too willing to accept the subservient position that we should give in to Texas, rather than vice versa.
I am not taking a subservient position at all, maybe you should reread my post. I stated I don't think many Marquette fans think we should play at Texas this year when we already play at Maui and at UW. If we are going to schedule a home and home, we need to make sure we play the away game in a year which we play UW at home, which would be next year. If Texas doesn't/can't play at the BC this year, then lets make sure that when they do, it is in a year we are at UW (2009). Somebody has to play the away game first and frankly I don't think the team that does it is the worse or less regarded team. The fact that Crean refused to give in and not play two tough out of conference games in the same year when the team is going to Maui and playing 9 road big east games shows toughness.
I guess, getting back to your original post, I don' think it is fair to say UT or Marquette fans feel this way; because I don't really think it is the truth.
Mr. Negative! You cannot be a MU supporter;your dislike goes back a few years and a few MU 'boards!' Try another board!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on August 14, 2007, 11:57:04 AM
Quote from: ecompt on August 14, 2007, 08:45:50 AM
Am I missing something? How exactly is Gonzaga outrecruiting us on any scale? Look, I love the Zags and root for them most every game, but if they played in the Big East they'd be .500 every year. That conference they play in is a joke.
Who cares? I don't get this false sense of worth because we're in the Big East. Do you think Marquette gets the same amount of national recognition that Gonzaga does? If you do, you're crazy. Gonzaga is a bigger name than Marquette right now, whether you want to admit it or not.
As a matter of fact, I would bet that a vast majority of college basketball fans have no idea we're even in the Big East. We're thought of as the place where Al McGuire coached, Dwyane Wade attended and as the school that embarrassingly changed a perfectly good nickname. Gonzaga is known as a school that is in the NCAA every year and is a team NOBODY wants to face in the first round, regardless of seed.
I would MUCH, MUCH rather make the NCAA every year than play in the Big East.
You have been a 'negative' regarding the MU program for a number of years. Try another board!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2007, 06:57:37 PM
Is Mark Few a better recruiter/coach than Tom Crean?
Quote from: skyhook34 on August 15, 2007, 12:04:07 AM
You have been a 'negative' regarding the MU program for a number of years. Try another board!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 14, 2007, 06:57:37 PM
Is Mark Few a better recruiter/coach than Tom Crean?
Here take one...it's called a "chill pill."
I don't mind the MUFans here at the 'Scoop who refuse to wear rose-colored glasses. I bleed Blue and Gold, and sometimes I can get enamored with the progress of the team it sometimes skews my judgment.
Let them vent...and ignore, if you're annoyed.
Skyhook34: Take a look at all 7 of your posts. Notice a theme? None of them are positive.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=profile;u=197;sa=showPosts
I realize and respect who you are, but please, try participating in other ways; we'd love to hear your thoughts on other subjects besides who you think is "Mr. Negative".
It is common knowledge you have more pressing issues on your plate than to express your opinions on this silly board in such an erudite way. ;D