Jamil Wilson, Davante Gardner, Todd Mayo, Derrick Wilson. Is there a better bench in the country?
Okay, it's a little misleading since at least two of these guys play "starter's minutes" but find me a better one. I'll hang up and wait for my answer.
I honestly think the only reason Otule starts is because of the tip off.
Quote from: BRMU23 on January 17, 2013, 04:49:23 PM
I honestly think the only reason Otule starts is because of the tip off.
If a pitcher throws 101mph on every pitch, eventually batters will catch up with him. If he throws a changeup on every pitch, eventually batters will start hanging back long enough. But when you mix things up effectively, batters still have a tough time with 0-2 pitches even though they know exactly what is coming.
Otule's a changeup and Gardner's a fastball. Mixing up two guys - whose styles are as close to polar opposites as you can be for a big man - effectively throws off the opposing big man's timing. The only way to counter is to have two equally effective big men of your own that you can sub in to keep consistent matchups. The problem is... very few teams do, and even fewer are willing to do it.
The real second five is Otule, Anderson, Taylor, Mayo and D. Wilson and there are very few teams that could put there second 5 against this team. I will go one farther and say there are very few teams that have a better 11th man than Thomas.
Excellent insight Benny!
Quote from: Benny B on January 17, 2013, 05:11:27 PM
If a pitcher throws 101mph on every pitch, eventually batters will catch up with him. If he throws a changeup on every pitch, eventually batters will start hanging back long enough. But when you mix things up effectively, batters still have a tough time with 0-2 pitches even though they know exactly what is coming.
Otule's a changeup and Gardner's a fastball. Mixing up two guys - whose styles are as close to polar opposites as you can be for a big man - effectively throws off the opposing big man's timing. The only way to counter is to have two equally effective big men of your own that you can sub in to keep consistent matchups. The problem is... very few teams do, and even fewer are willing to do it.
There's no way otule could pitch in the AL. He would have to hit. We all know how long Puckett's career was with one eye
Quote from: bilsu on January 17, 2013, 05:34:39 PM
The real second five is Otule, Anderson, Taylor, Mayo and D. Wilson and there are very few teams that could put there second 5 against this team. I will go one farther and say there are very few teams that have a better 11th man than Thomas.
Not to mention our 12th man doesn't look totally lost when he's out there as well. This reason alone makes me so happy that I4 scooped up the Creaner.
Quote from: WesleyPipes on January 17, 2013, 11:58:25 PM
Not to mention our 12th man doesn't look totally lost when he's out there as well. This reason alone makes me so happy that I4 scooped up the Creaner.
Are you talking about Ferguson? He looked pretty lost in transition D for the 30 seconds he played against Seton Hall.
You would lost to if you had not played for many games. Jamal will do great once he's given the time on the court. He's a very talented athlete.
Quote from: TJ on January 18, 2013, 12:19:59 AM
Are you talking about Ferguson? He looked pretty lost in transition D for the 30 seconds he played against Seton Hall.
Indeed. He was out there 15 seconds and his man hit a 3.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 18, 2013, 07:28:49 AM
You would lost to if you had not played for many games. Jamal will do great once he's given the time on the court. He's a very talented athlete.
But the comment I responded to was "Our 12th man doesn't look totally lost when he's out there". I'm sure he'll be fine at some point in the future, but in the last game he did.
We have nice balance which gives us the capability to manage fouls and find other options when someone is having an off night or if, God forbid, someone gets hurt. But the bench scoring stat is pretty BS in my opinion since, as you point out, Gardner and J. Wilson are in our top 4 players.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 18, 2013, 07:28:49 AM
You would lost to if you had not played for many games. Jamal will do great once he's given the time on the court. He's a very talented athlete.
This same tired line has been repeated about our players for years. More playing time *might* make them better players, although it certainly didn't seem to do so for Erik Williams or Jamail Jones, but at what cost? I don't think putting up with pretty simple defensive mistakes for the sake of giving a player "experience" are worth the cost of giving up points...and potentially wins.
There is a reason that players like Blue and Mayo played as freshmen...and players like Williams, Jones and Ferguson haven't. It's because Blue and Mayo earned their time on the defensive end of the court, and in the case of Mayo, showed game on the offensive end. My guess is that Blue and Mayo showed this in practice...which is what Ferguson has to do.
Quote from: Benny B on January 17, 2013, 05:11:27 PM
If a pitcher throws 101mph on every pitch, eventually batters will catch up with him. If he throws a changeup on every pitch, eventually batters will start hanging back long enough. But when you mix things up effectively, batters still have a tough time with 0-2 pitches even though they know exactly what is coming.
Otule's a changeup and Gardner's a fastball. Mixing up two guys - whose styles are as close to polar opposites as you can be for a big man - effectively throws off the opposing big man's timing. The only way to counter is to have two equally effective big men of your own that you can sub in to keep consistent matchups. The problem is... very few teams do, and even fewer are willing to do it.
I understand and agree. I like the way Buzz has been subbing the two. I was just making a comment that the only reason OX isn't in the starting lineup (even though he gets the minutes) is due to the tipoff. I think Otule should play, as he does do some nice things. Also, while I am impressed with his conditioning this year, I don't think Gardner can play 30+ minutes a game (Otule probably couldn't either with his knee, but that's just speculation).
I don't know if Davante will ever get up to 30 a game. I mean, he has been in the program for two full seasons and doesn't have the conditioning for that. My guess is that next year, assuming Otule is back, that you will see McKay play in the post in certain situations. Perhaps 20-25 for Garder, 10-15 for Otule, and 5-10 for McKay.
I just hope that Diamond Stone is watching Gardner's development at MU and realizing that Buzz knows how to run an offense through a low-post scorer.
Can see Gardner 20-30 and McKay 20-30 minutes. No Otule.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 18, 2013, 10:03:13 AM
Can see Gardner 20-30 and McKay 20-30 minutes. No Otule.
McKay can't play 20 minutes in the post. He's not big enough. And you are not giving Otule nearly the credit he deserves. Solid defensive center.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 18, 2013, 10:15:24 AM
McKay can't play 20 minutes in the post. He's not big enough. And you are not giving Otule nearly the credit he deserves. Solid defensive center.
He doesn't score enough points, therefore he is not a good basketball player.
Signed,
98% of Scoop
Forgot about McKay next year. DG, Steve, McKay and Chris (maybe). Can't remember having that many solid 4-5 guys in years.
Assuming Chris decides to return and knowing that Jake gives up his scholly, we're how many over if all 5 guys that signed LOIs are here in September?
And one more quick 'bench thought'. Thrilled that DWil looks positioned to start at point. Takes pressure off the new Frosh allowing them to develop.
Quote from: jsglow on January 18, 2013, 10:23:21 AM
Assuming Chris decides to return and knowing that Jake gives up his scholly, we're how many over if all 5 guys that signed LOIs are here in September?
We are one over assuming Otule returns.
If Otule doesn not return, I predict that McKay/JWilson/Taylor will combine to be the back-up 5. I am totally OK with that. Taylor and Wilson, Wilson and Juan, McKay and Wilson.....all of those combinations will be fine up front. I don't know about Juan and Taylor, but a year from now it will probably work.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 18, 2013, 10:29:39 AM
We are one over assuming Otule returns.
May not be one over for next year if Mayo doesn't buckle down with the books this semester. Hope he does, don't want to lose a player that way.
Quote from: tower912 on January 18, 2013, 10:34:51 AM
If Otule doesn not return, I predict that McKay/JWilson/Taylor will combine to be the back-up 5. I am totally OK with that. Taylor and Wilson, Wilson and Juan, McKay and Wilson.....all of those combinations will be fine up front. I don't know about Juan and Taylor, but a year from now it will probably work.
We've seen Wilson in that role and he did fine. Regardless we'll manage, though I do hope Otule is back. He's certainly earned that opportunity.
Well, we're clearly a long way from determining how that single slot will be accommodated. What we do know is that in big time college basketball kids sometimes move around.
What I sincerely hope happens is that some European teams reach out to Chris and one signs him to a nice paycheck. Be great if he can make some coin at the game before the 'real world' starts.
Quote from: bilsu on January 17, 2013, 05:34:39 PM
The real second five is Otule, Anderson, Taylor, Mayo and D. Wilson and there are very few teams that could put there second 5 against this team. I will go one farther and say there are very few teams that have a better 11th man than Thomas.
Does this stem from a deep analysis of every team's 11th man?
Buzz isn't stupid. The Jake Thomas train has been locked in the terminal.
Agree with you about what our "real" second five is. The other five players are the crunch-timer, with Mayo starting to move into that realm, too.