I was thinking this morning about the end of the Big East. Obviously Calhoun retired, but we are also no longer going to see coaching luminaries like Boeheim, Pitino, and Huggins. Those guys really helped define the Big East, just as guys like Izzo and Bo define the B1G, or K and Williams define the ACC.
The more I thought about it, the more it seems coaches are emblematic of not just a program, but of the league they are in. When you think about the 1980s Big East, it's guys like George Thompson, Rollie Massamino, Lou Carnesecca, and Rick Pitino that spring to mind even before names like Alonzo Mourning, Ed Pinckney, Chris Mullen, and Billy Donovan. The old Big Ten brings to mind Bobby Knight and Jud Heathcote, when I think of the ACC I think of K, Dean Smith, and Jimmy V. Because the players are only there 4 years or less, it's the coaches that endure.
Then I thought about our new league. Many of these guys, like Purnell, Cooley, and Willard haven't really established themselves yet. And while Steve Lavin, Jay Wright, and GTIII have all had some success, none of them have the character that Buzz Williams has. I really think in terms of the future of this league, Buzz (and possibly Brad Stevens) are two of the most important figures in shaping its future. These guys are important not just to our school, but to all of our schools. With us uniquely poised to start a league that would make basketball king while being relevant on a national level, Buzz's name could become as synonymous with this new league as any of the names I listed in the above paragraph are with theirs.
Just a thought, but man...we need this guy to stay.
good post! agree totally. coaching personalities and success is a huge element in the success of a conference. We've got some good personalities in the new league and Buzz is clearly one of the up and coming ones.
Just to verify, when you say JT III and Wright don't have the character, you mean quotability/dynamicism, yes? Because I totally agree and think those qualities are important to garner the league some national press- especially right out of the gate. But JT III and Wright are certainly great guys that do things the right way. But I definitely agree that Buzz's dynamicism really positions him to be a/the figurehead of the new league.
Quote from: downtown85 on January 06, 2013, 01:34:37 PM
good post! agree totally. coaching personalities and success is a huge element in the success of a conference. We've got some good personalities in the new league and Buzz is clearly one of the up and coming ones.
It's success that matters, not "personalities". If a coach is consistently successful, his personality will be celebrated and become emblematic of the program/league. Mike Deane was quite the personality, but because he couldn't sustain success, he is mostly remembered as an erratic dick.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2013, 01:24:09 PM
I was thinking this morning about the end of the Big East. Obviously Calhoun retired, but we are also no longer going to see coaching luminaries like Boeheim, Pitino, and Huggins. Those guys really helped define the Big East, just as guys like Izzo and Bo define the B1G, or K and Williams define the ACC.
The more I thought about it, the more it seems coaches are emblematic of not just a program, but of the league they are in. When you think about the 1980s Big East, it's guys like George Thompson, Rollie Massamino, Lou Carnesecca, and Rick Pitino that spring to mind even before names like Alonzo Mourning, Ed Pinckney, Chris Mullen, and Billy Donovan. The old Big Ten brings to mind Bobby Knight and Jud Heathcote, when I think of the ACC I think of K, Dean Smith, and Jimmy V. Because the players are only there 4 years or less, it's the coaches that endure.
Then I thought about our new league. Many of these guys, like Purnell, Cooley, and Willard haven't really established themselves yet. And while Steve Lavin, Jay Wright, and GTIII have all had some success, none of them have the character that Buzz Williams has. I really think in terms of the future of this league, Buzz (and possibly Brad Stevens) are two of the most important figures in shaping its future. These guys are important not just to our school, but to all of our schools. With us uniquely poised to start a league that would make basketball king while being relevant on a national level, Buzz's name could become as synonymous with this new league as any of the names I listed in the above paragraph are with theirs.
Just a thought, but man...we need this guy to stay.
Excellent point. When the Big East began in 1979 Boeheim was early on in his coaching career. And the other coaches you mentioned were a major part of the makeup of the conference.
I'd like to add that the Big East really took off when players like Patrick Ewing came to Georgetown and their appearance in the title game that year. Start with coaches like Buzz, Brad Stevens and Steve Lavin, add some high profile recruits around the league and with that some major tournament success and we're in a very good place.
Good post Brew. Buzz, Jay, GTIII, and Brad are the 'face' of the conference. Buzz will have fully arrived when some young coach says, "Well, I don't have as much capital as Coach Williams, but...."
Quote from: MUSF on January 06, 2013, 01:54:49 PM
It's success that matters, not "personalities". If a coach is consistently successful, his personality will be celebrated and become emblematic of the program/league. Mike Deane was quite the personality, but because he couldn't sustain success, he is mostly remembered as an erratic dick.
Agree, personalities don't win games. Tom Crean is a good example, doesn't really come off as a guy with a ton of personality like Buzz, Pitino, etc. But he certainly can win and recruit.
I met a young man at our parish this morning who works with the Basketball team at Hofstra. Mentioned I went to Marquette. I could'nt stop this kid praising Buzz and what a great coach we have. Buzz has really made a name for himself with young kids like that.
Quote from: MUSF on January 06, 2013, 01:54:49 PM
It's success that matters, not "personalities". If a coach is consistently successful, his personality will be celebrated and become emblematic of the program/league. Mike Deane was quite the personality, but because he couldn't sustain success, he is mostly remembered as an erratic dick.
True, but personalities certainly help. Winning draws attention. Having a notable personality helps keep it. Of all the coaches in this league right now, I think Buzz has the best chance to go down as the one people remember most, even though I think in the long term Wright, Thompson, and Stevens could all have equal success.
No "independent" viewer is going to watch this league because of the coach. They are going to watch it because of the product on the court. The Big East became a success because it was in many ways the first conference to be broadcast nationally - not because of the coaching personalities.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 06, 2013, 03:29:24 PM
No "independent" viewer is going to watch this league because of the coach. They are going to watch it because of the product on the court. The Big East became a success because it was in many ways the first conference to be broadcast nationally - not because of the coaching personalities.
Short-term, no. Long-term, I disagree. I think people have coaches that are favorites both to cheer for and against. The coaches define the programs. If you have a successful coach over a long period I believe people will tune in because of that. I think more people would tune into Duke than Kansas, largely because they have feelings about Coach K, even though Kansas has had similar success albeit with more transient coaches.
Definitely an important period for MU basketball. Obviously it would help us with a proven commodity as coach in helping our infant conference thrive.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2013, 03:25:05 PM
True, but personalities certainly help. Winning draws attention. Having a notable personality helps keep it. Of all the coaches in this league right now, I think Buzz has the best chance to go down as the one people remember most, even though I think in the long term Wright, Thompson, and Stevens could all have equal success.
I think you meant that Buzz could have equal long term success like the other guys, right? Buzz hasn't done anything to equal the other guys' on court success...yet (hopefully).
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 06, 2013, 04:29:30 PM
I think you meant that Buzz could have equal long term success like the other guys, right? Buzz hasn't done anything to equal the other guys' on court success...yet (hopefully).
I do think he can. But what I'm saying is that if they have equal success, Buzz will be remembered more prominently than the others because of his personality.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2013, 03:39:12 PM
Short-term, no. Long-term, I disagree. I think people have coaches that are favorites both to cheer for and against. The coaches define the programs. If you have a successful coach over a long period I believe people will tune in because of that.
I just simply disagree. Perhaps you could make a case for Duke, but IMO that isn't the norm.
Quote from: MUSF on January 06, 2013, 01:54:49 PM
It's success that matters, not "personalities". If a coach is consistently successful, his personality will be celebrated and become emblematic of the program/league. Mike Deane was quite the personality, but because he couldn't sustain success, he is mostly remembered as an erratic dick.
Ultimately, that is the key....success. Lots of "really great guys" out there that win some, but lose a bunch. If Buzz leaves, he leaves, you find someone else. The last guy we hired is heading up Indiana. Buzz is doing well here. in the past 8 coaching hires we've had Al McGuire, Tom Crean, Rick Majerus, Buzz Williams, Hank Raymonds, Kevin O'Neill....I'd say odds are that we would be in pretty good shape.
I've never seen a fanbase who frets and worries more than this one.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 06, 2013, 05:07:23 PM
I've never seen a fanbase who frets and worries more than this one.
I think it's because were at the top and then we crapped the bed for a decade. However, since we are back at as regular NCAA participant, frequent top 25 program now, I have a hard time thinking MU will go back to the dumpster again....nevertheless that hangs in the backs of fans minds (I admit it creeps into mine as well). Only after I take a step back, look at the dollars being spent, look at the success over multiple decades, the commitment level, do I then take a deep breath. There are many good \ great coaches. MU doesn't self destruct if Buzz leaves. It would suck, but he isn't going to be here forever anyway so people need to understand the day will come and we will survive.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 06, 2013, 05:07:23 PM
I've never seen a fanbase who frets and worries more than this one.
I don't know... I've been reading UDPride a lot lately.
Winning coaches have memorable personalities because they win and they are around for a long time.
Losing coaches don't have memorable personalities because they lose and end up coaching at (insert crappy school in a crappy conference).
Winning is important. If Buzz helps with winning, then Buzz is important.